No more color restrictions on crystals ?! Really ?

[AKfourtyseven]

Star Wars fans understand restrictions on colours are stupid.

 

End of story.

 

Go watch EPIII and see Darth Vader using a blue saber. Check out some EU and see Sith from the old republic Era using Blue & Purple. Then go watch EP II & III and see Windu waving around that same purple colour.

 

Of all the things Bioware may have got wrong, this change is not one of them. The mistake was limiting it in the first place.

Edited March 3, 2012 by AKfourtyseven

[Lord_Scythe]

Star Wars fans understand restrictions on colours are stupid.

 

End of story.

 

Go watch EPIII and see Darth Vader using a blue saber. Check out some EU and see Sith from the old republic Era using Blue & Purple. Then go watch EP II & III and see Windu waving around that same purple colour.

 

Of all the things Bioware may have got wrong, this change is not one of them. The mistake was limiting it in the first place.

 

Non psycho Star Wars fans do.

 

Fanatical Star Wars fans are a whole other matter.

 

Unfortunately they want Star Wars and in reality this is an extension of KOTOR which was loosely based on Star Wars.

[Cellotlix]

Apparently, you're not much of a Star Wars fan.

 

Color has-never-been-nor-will-it-ever-be restricted to morality. Lucas himself has confirmed that there is no direct link. The only lore basis for the restrictions was that, in the time of TPM, AotC etc., Sith couldn't get their hands on natural crystal supplies, and had to use synthetic crystals. Synth crystals (Luke used a synth crystal in RotJ, too, btw) are created by channeling the force through a forge. In the case of darksiders, this creates a crimson-red crystal... but not all synth crystals are red -- nor are all the sabers of Sith red. Certainly, the fact that the Sith in the TOR timeline favor purple just as much as red is proof of this.

 

Frankly, the limits in TOR make absolutely no sense as implemented in the game. They neither preserve the 'look' of the films, nor do they have any basis in the lore. You would argue that color is tied to morality as if picking up a green or a blue saber as a darksider would cause it to explode in my hand. Even in the films, time and again we are shown that darksiders can use 'light' colors (Anakin/Vader with blue throughout Ep. III, Vader ignited Luke's green saber in Ep. VI). Similarly, lightsiders can use red... as in the case of Anakin picking up Dooku's saber to finish him off with.

 

***

 

HI THAR. MY NAME IZ EXAR KUN, ONE OF THE MOST BAD-*** SITH LORDS OF ALL TIMES (YOU CAN TELL SINC I USE ALL CAPS TO POST). I'D JUS LIK 2 JUMP IN HERE AND POINT OUT DAT I USED A BLUE SABRE. TY. DATS ALL I WANTED. <3 TO MY HOMIES IN EMPIR.

 

***

 

Thanks, Exar.

 

Getting back on topic, the simple fact of the matter is, there is no canonical basis or otherwise for the current crystal restrictions. They were, quite literally, something Bioware conjured out of thin air. And, what's worse, they don't even preserve the look of the films, instead forcing many Jedi to abandon green/blue, and many Sith to forsake red. If you wanted to see more Sith using red, and more Jedi using green/blue as in the films, you should actually support dropping the restrictions.

 

As it stands now, I believe you simply don't understand either the lore or the system we've got in game.

 

--------------------------------

 

Just wanted to tack this on from later in the thread. This is how TOR's current restrictions would look if applied to Star Wars.

 

*I take you now to the famous Temple Slaughter scene from Ep. III. Anakin is boldly walking up the Jedi Temple stairs, flanked by an army of clone troopers. He approaches the door, reaches into his robes, pulls out his blue saber, and prepares to ignite it when...

 

... nothing happens?*

 

Clone trooper #1: Ruh-roh!

 

Clone trooper #3: He's got er... troubles 'getting it up,' I guess?

 

Clone trooper #1: Man, that's gotta create some tension in the sack with him and Padmomma or whatever.

 

Clone trooper #2: Hehe... be quiet, I want to hear this.

 

[Anakin COMM] Master, I have run into some issues.

 

*The clones snicker.*

 

[sidious COMM] What is it, my young apprentice? Are the Jedi dead? Is the temple aflame?

 

[Anakin COMM] No, master my... lightsaber won't turn on.

 

*More clone laughter.*

 

[sidious COMM] Oh, I forgot to tell you. You can't use that lightsaber anymore because you're a bad guy now. Big oopsies on my part. Come back to my office and I'll give you a red crystal.

 

*Anakin leaves in a huff.*

 

Clone trooper #1: Ciggy break! AFK!

 

Clone trooper #2: Hehe... stupid sith.

 

Clone trooper #3: Shut up, dude... any more darkside points and you won't be able to use that blaster anymore.

 

Just dropping in to say this is the best post I've ever seen in this forum. +100 alignment points of your choice- would LOL again.

[testszag]

for those of you trying to say the eu should not be canon, please read this:

 

"Boba Fett, originally introduced as a villain in The Star Wars Holiday Special, was created for The Empire Strikes Back, and quickly became one of the most popular Star Wars characters. He went on to appear in Return of the Jedi and Attack of the Clones, ultimately we witness the first on screen camera time of the adult Boba Fett in Star Wars: A New Hope, Special Edition in the scene where Jabba the Hutt and Han Solo interact in Dock Bay 94 on Tatooine."

 

from here:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Star_Wars_Expanded_Universe#Lucas.27s_use_of_the_Expanded_Universe

 

gl uses the eu, get over it.

[Kaskava]

for those of you trying to say the eu should not be canon, please read this:

 

"Boba Fett, originally introduced as a villain in The Star Wars Holiday Special, was created for The Empire Strikes Back, and quickly became one of the most popular Star Wars characters. He went on to appear in Return of the Jedi and Attack of the Clones, ultimately we witness the first on screen camera time of the adult Boba Fett in Star Wars: A New Hope, Special Edition in the scene where Jabba the Hutt and Han Solo interact in Dock Bay 94 on Tatooine."

 

from here:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Star_Wars_Expanded_Universe#Lucas.27s_use_of_the_Expanded_Universe

 

gl uses the eu, get over it.

 

Ironically, the part of the EU he out-right despises.

[testszag]

Ironically, the part of the EU he out-right despises.

 

the show itself, sure, but not that element.

[Vecke]

I love how in this franchise video games are treated as "canon". What a completely backwards endeavor this is overall. I guess in the long run I'll stick with my movies and play the game as I want to, and the rest of you can go around with your marrying Jedi/soap opera/rainbow brite lightsaber version of Star Wars.

 

The poster you quoted specifically mentioned KOTOR 2. Are you saying a sequel to KOTOR 2 shouldn't use continuity established in KOTOR 2?

 

But leaving that out, I still don't understand your complaint. Right now, the game mechanic makes it impossible for many Jedi to use blue sabers. Right now the game mechanic makes it impossible for many Sith to use red sabers.

 

If your problem is that - in the movies - Jedi use blue/green and Sith use Red, why are you against this change? The game now prevents that. The coming change allows it. The change helps you get exactly what you want.

Edited March 3, 2012 by Vecke

[testszag]

The poster you quoted specifically mentioned KOTOR 2. Are you saying a sequel to KOTOR 2 shouldn't use continuity established in KOTOR 2?

 

But leaving that out, I still don't understand your complaint. Right now, the game mechanic makes it impossible for many Jedi to use blue sabers. Right now the game mechanic makes it impossible for many Sith to use red sabers.

 

If your problem is that - in the movies - Jedi use blue/green and Sith use Red, why are you against this change? The game now prevents that. The coming change allows it. The change helps you get exactly what you want.

 

oooh, logic. probably the wrong place for this.

[AKfourtyseven]

I love how in this franchise video games are treated as "canon". What a completely backwards endeavor this is overall. I guess in the long run I'll stick with my movies and play the game as I want to, and the rest of you can go around with your marrying Jedi/soap opera/rainbow brite lightsaber version of Star Wars.

 

Ok, lets use the films as evidence to settle this debate.

 

Sith use red and are not allowed to use blue? Star Wars, Episode III: Revenge of The Sith. Darth Vader, Lord of the Sith uses a Blue lightsaber.

 

Case closed.

[Koalachan]

Ok, lets use the films as evidence to settle this debate.

 

Sith use red and are not allowed to use blue? Star Wars, Episode III: Revenge of The Sith. Darth Vader, Lord of the Sith uses a Blue lightsaber.

 

Case closed.

 

No no, people mentioned this earlier in the thread and certain people buried their head the sand and ignored it.

[Caelrie]

Luke used a blaster, so how come jedis can't use guns?

 

Just because you can find a few examples from a movie to support your case, doesn't mean the devs need to change their rules.

 

What it means is that the movies don't support the restriction so you can't use the movies as an excuse to enforce the restriction in SWTOR.

[Cancrizans]

The poster you quoted specifically mentioned KOTOR 2. Are you saying a sequel to KOTOR 2 shouldn't use continuity established in KOTOR 2?

 

But leaving that out, I still don't understand your complaint. Right now, the game mechanic makes it impossible for many Jedi to use blue sabers. Right now the game mechanic makes it impossible for many Sith to use red sabers.

 

If your problem is that - in the movies - Jedi use blue/green and Sith use Red, why are you against this change? The game now prevents that. The coming change allows it. The change helps you get exactly what you want.

 

I am for the colors representing alignment, not faction. The system the game has is not perfect. As someone else mentioned, going total Dark Side as in truly becoming evil ought to result in a faction change, and vice versa. As it stands, the whole alignment/faction thing is a bit confusing.

 

So it is my opinion that keeping blue/green for Light and red for Dark is one mechanic that imposes SOME limited kind of order. Perhaps the system would have worked better if Bioware had provided an equal number of interesting and appealing, yet different, color choices for each alignment. They didn't do that. I still think the game is better off with the restriction in place than without.

[Cancrizans]

the show itself, sure, but not that element.

 

Ya whatever is convenient.

[kisharrr]

I said that was the lore TO ME.

 

Do try to read properly.

 

You are entitled to your own opinions, but not your own facts.

 

The statement "lore to me" is silly. Lore exists outside of your viewpoint or ideas.

[Zorvan]

This game is considered EU. EU has no color restrictions. You want the movies, go play SWG. Oh, wait. You can't. Guess you're screwed, dude.

[ScarletBlaze]

What it means is that the movies don't support the restriction so you can't use the movies as an excuse to enforce the restriction in SWTOR.

 

She's right. The time line in SWTOR is at least 3000 years before the movies.

 

 

In the Old Republic there were also many rare coloured crystals that could be found as well, including Orange, Gold, Bronze, Cyan [sunriders Destiny] and Viridian [described as a silverish green] as well as a pure silver-white [Adegan Silver] if they wished to change their initial colour crystal for personal reasons.

[Fiachsidhe]

Ok, lets use the films as evidence to settle this debate.

 

Sith use red and are not allowed to use blue? Star Wars, Episode III: Revenge of The Sith. Darth Vader, Lord of the Sith uses a Blue lightsaber.

 

Case closed.

 

Why is it, that statements like "case closed" and "Nuff said" are always preceded by glib statements, strawmen, and fallacy, that never actually say enough, or close a case?

 

Anakin Skywalker, a jedi on his path to the darkside, used his jedi saber. Afterward, he constructed a red one. You know, like Palpatine used in that same film? Same as Count Dooku, and Darth Maul.

[Lord_Scythe]

I'm gone as of the end of this month for this very issue. Yep cancelled. I don't want to controll what others do either, all I'm asking is for an optional filter, the same way you wouldn't want to be trashtalked or perhaps see profanity in chat. It's not a problem in the part of the game BioWare are proud of and do best; they pretty much stuck to the OT canon.... it's what happens afterward that is becoming less and less like Star Wars.

 

If this is the sole reason you are quitting that is pathetic.

 

A minor issue feature I want is not in so I am taking my ball and going home.

 

There are much better reasons to quit a game.

 

Not having fun playing the game would top my list. Boredom would be number two on my list.

 

I could see power gamers quitting after beating end game and getting all their gear. Lets face it they quit all games they play because no MMO producer can pump out enough content to keep them happy!

 

But to quit because they won't put in a feature one player wants to make Sith LS red and Jedi Blue is sad. Lets face it you are the proverbial child holding his breath to get what he wants! I think you need to toss in a tantrum with a ton of kicking and SCREAMING! This might get your way!

 

This game is not based on Star Wars it is based on KOTOR. Sure KOTOR is placed in the Star Wars universe and loosely bases itself on Star Wars but much of the lore was made by Bioware and approved by Lucas Arts!

 

Frankly a MMO based during the OT would absolutely suck! You would not be playing a Jedi for one or a Sith for another. The game would be bloody boring especially since the story is already known!!!

[Altyrell]

Why is it, that statements like "case closed" and "Nuff said" are always preceded by glib statements, strawmen, and fallacy, that never actually say enough, or close a case?

 

Anakin Skywalker, a jedi on his path to the darkside, used his jedi saber. Afterward, he constructed a red one. You know, like Palpatine used in that same film? Same as Count Dooku, and Darth Maul.

 

Yeah, but that was also in part because Kenobi LOOTED his Blue Lightsaber. Oh, and he was DARTH VADER, a Sith, while using his Blue Lightsaber and killed the Younglings & Jedi at the Temple along with fighting Kenobi on Mustafar after killing the Sep Leaders.

 

So, yeah. Darth Vader used a Blue Lightsaber as a Sith.

 

Not to mention, Anakin used Dooku's Red Lightsaber against him AS a Jedi.

 

Speaking of Fallacy & Strawmen arguments, but you yourself technically are using them in your own post.

Edited March 3, 2012 by Altyrell

[Cancrizans]

You are entitled to your own opinions, but not your own facts.

 

The statement "lore to me" is silly. Lore exists outside of your viewpoint or ideas.

 

In the screwy world of Star Wars "canon" there are no "facts". You have to be nuts to accept what even Lucas says at face value concerning these subjects, much less all of the spin off for profit media that form the EU.

 

My yardstick is simply the obvious meaning and intent in the movies, and common sense. If X author can make stuff up, I can too, and I find my version a better fit than most of what I've seen outside of the movies.

 

Short version: I'll play my Star Wars, you play yours.

[Jmannseelo]

I am a nightmare walking, psychopath talking

King of my jungle just a gangster stalking

Living life like a firecracker quick is my fuse

Then dead as a deathpack the colors I choose

Red or Blue, Cuz or Blood, it just don't matter

Sucker die for your life when my lightsaber scatters

We gangs of T.O.R. will never die - just multiply

 

 

[Altyrell]

In the screwy world of Star Wars "canon" there are no "facts". You have to be nuts to accept what even Lucas says at face value concerning these subjects, much less all of the spin off for profit media that form the EU.

 

My yardstick is simply the obvious meaning and intent in the movies, and common sense. If X author can make stuff up, I can too, and I find my version a better fit than most of what I've seen outside of the movies.

 

Short version: I'll play my Star Wars, you play yours.

 

EXCEPT unless your stuff is approved by LucasArts, more specifically Leland Chee, your stuff would be NON-CANON and would have ZERO baring on the Star Wars Universe

 

And guess what, a lot of the EU HAS been approved AND accepted by Leland Chee and LucasArts, so those stuff would be MORE Official then stuff you came up with.

Edited March 3, 2012 by Altyrell

[Cancrizans]

Yeah, but that was also in part because Kenobi LOOTED his Blue Lightsaber. Oh, and he was DARTH VADER, a Sith, while using his Blue Lightsaber and killed the Younglings & Jedi at the Temple along with fighting Kenobi on Mustafar after killing the Sep Leaders.

 

So, yeah. Darth Vader used a Blue Lightsaber as a Sith.

 

Not to mention, Anakin used Dooku's Red Lightsaber against him AS a Jedi.

 

Speaking of Fallacy & Strawmen arguments, but you yourself technically are using them in your own post.

 

Ok this argument I don't get at all. How the hell was he Darth Vader while doing the above mentioned? It is very clear from the films that these events were a part of his downfall...but he did not become Vader until he fully accepted his position as The Emperors servant, both in name and spirit.

 

The idea that he was already acting in the role of Vader, fought with a blue lightsaber, thus Sith use blue lightsabers is really a bananas type argument.

[Altyrell]

Ok this argument I don't get at all. How the hell was he Darth Vader while doing the above mentioned? It is very clear from the films that these events were a part of his downfall...but he did not become Vader until he fully accepted his position as The Emperors servant, both in name and spirit.

 

The idea that he was already acting in the role of Vader, fought with a blue lightsaber, thus Sith use blue lightsabers is really a bananas type argument.

 

Um, he became Darth Vader when Palpatine said that he was to be called Darth Vader shortly after Windu did the Electric Slide out the window.

 

Guess what, he was Darth Vader from that moment forward, and it means that Sith CAN use Blue Lightsabers

 

I also like how you skipped the part where he used a Red Lightsaber, AS a Jedi against Dooku.

Edited March 3, 2012 by Altyrell

[Koalachan]

In the screwy world of Star Wars "canon" there are no "facts". You have to be nuts to accept what even Lucas says at face value concerning these subjects, much less all of the spin off for profit media that form the EU.

 

My yardstick is simply the obvious meaning and intent in the movies, and common sense. If X author can make stuff up, I can too, and I find my version a better fit than most of what I've seen outside of the movies.

 

Short version: I'll play my Star Wars, you play yours.

 

X author can not just make stuff up. There is an entire group of people who's job it is is to ensure the continuity. Any changes and add ons run through them, short of George making a new movie. When authors write books, they are given basic plots, told if they are allowed to make new characters for the plots, or if it uses established characters etc. If it uses established characters they are not allowed to contradict what is already known about them.

 

X authors do not simply wake up one day and go "I'm going to write Star Wars book and have it be canon and people will just have to accept it." Several authors have quit writing Star Wars novels due to the way some of them are treated.