Endure Pain is just wrong...

[Semitote]

I'm pretty sure Warzone Medpacs are % based, so Endure Pain + Warzone Medpac will actually net you more health... I think.

[Skwinkles]

Endure pain is fine the way it is. It's one of the few skills that is actually interesting in this game. If it did what you wanted it to, it's nothing more than a glorified heal due to the temp HP increase. It works great the way it is. Its intended use is different than what you want it do.

 

Uses I've found: I'm only a few feet away from scoring in a pug huttball so there are no friendlies around. I pop endure pain and it gives me enough hp's to to last long enough to make it to the goal (who cares if I die right after scoring?).

 

In a 1v1, your hp's drop low, your opponents are kind of low too. You pop endure pain and, instead of dying, you have an extra pool of hp's that allows you take enough damage to defeat your opponent. And, in the same scenario, I've actually had people run from the fight, thinking it was a heal and that they weren't going to win.

 

You get ganked by a group of players. Popping endure pain gives you enough time to get back to healers and live. Even in solo questing I've used endure pain to finish the fight and get a few ticks off of channeled hatred to avoid a death.

 

And before my wall of text gets too big I'll stop there, I hope you get the point. This ability isn't a a heal, and I'm glad it's not. I would hope that BW wouldn't waste a valuable skill slot on something that accomplishes the same goal as a medpack. Endure pain allows you to (heh) endure pain, and take a few extra hits before going down, giving you enough time to do what you needed. And the fact that it doesn't heal you requires thought before making use of this skill, which is much more interesting. If this were just a heal, you would pop it whenever without a second though as a reaction to your hp's dropping, just like you do with a medpack. Do you really want one of our main CD's to be a medpack?

 

Edit: I actually remember in WoW you were able to keep the hp's (had an 85 warr), maybe it was not like that originally but changed? Regardless, it did at least cause abilities that scaled with hp's to scale with your new temporary hp's, which was nice (i.e. using it with enraged regen). I haven't been able to tell if it does that in TOR with medpacks (although I have tried it a few times).

Edited March 7, 2012 by Skwinkles

[Kallti]

I can confirm that Last Stand works exactly the same as Endure Pain.

 

It is a great ability which enables a buffer for your healer(s) which is invaluable, just as it was in WoW.

[TrouserGnome]

Just from soloing Veng with Jaesa as my primary companion (I loathe quinn so much I refuse to use him) I've made quite a lot of use of EP. Typically depending on crits/procs I'll end up being "close" to a mob's health as we're both near death, then pop EP and manage to pull off the Win. Using it any earlier would just mean a loss of those HP/wasted usage, but that extra 3000 hp, even if it's just for a short period is enough to make a difference.

[Darthshnooky]

I'm pretty sure Warzone Medpacs are % based, so Endure Pain + Warzone Medpac will actually net you more health... I think.

 

Sssshhhhh... you're not supposed to tell everyone. It's our secret.

[Kyera]

they had this ability as a proc for the black orc in WAR, and it worked as a bunch of people in this thread wish it worked- ie, it gave you the HP, raised the cap, then didn't deduct it again when the skill ran its duration and returned your HP cap to normal.

 

And it was a huge mistake.

 

Blorc was the best tank on Forces of Destruction. Chosen was gimp and blackguard was pretty laughable until they buffed it.

 

I don't think you played Warhammer if that's the conclusion you drew about tanking. Black Orc was good for sitting there spamming Can't Hit Me and being a magnet for idiots to attack, outside of a couple of niche specs working in concert with friendly players, and while the heal proc rate was a little silly early on, and not so much the mechanic, it still didn't make Black Orcs the 'best tank on Destruction'.

 

Where PvE content is concerned, they were all pretty interchangeable, but Black Orcs were stupid against blockable mobs because of Can't Hit Me and really nothing else. I'd give the nod to Chosen for most encounters mainly because of their auras and certain attacks. BGs were more of an off-tank/dps 'tank' kind of class, especially once you got to ToVL.

Edited March 7, 2012 by Kyera

[InfamousXIII]

Yea, i didnt mind how the skill worked until i died twice yesterday because it left me at 1hp.

 

I do kind of wish it either changed your max hp (and not your current hp at all) or it could be worked down to something like a 20% heal then after the duration you just lose the max hp while not robbing your current hp's.

[TrouserGnome]

To be honest I think it would be better off if it were a 30% health "bubble" along the lines of what Sorcs can throw on you than how it's currently implemented. Even if it were a smaller health percentage it would leave us a lot less vulnerable when it wears off.

[wingfang]

hope they change endure pain in 1.2 and make it better , and not that 1 hp crap.

[Hansuki]

So much fail jugg here. No wonder people complain about our OP class being useless - people just cant figure out how to use the skills right.

 

Endure pain gives me 30k hp for situations where normally I'd have 22k. Try this:

 

Stand in fleet and take off some armor, then put it back on - this'll give you less than full health. I hit endure pain when I'm at 75% - I got to 90% health! Endure pain runs out a few seconds later, I STAY ABOVE 90% because I had more health during the duration of endure pain than my usual health pool.

 

Now take off all your armor and put it back on - starting this time at 35%, Endure pain takes me to 57%, but after the duration expires I drop to 50% suddenly - less than when I had used the skill at 75%. Stay with me now

 

Last test - from full health hit endure pain, then quickly take off and put on some armor (giving the impression of taking damage). In my test I took off 4 pieces and put them on for 25% health loss. As Endure Pain expired, because the damage I sustained was less than the total health gained no health loss occurred.

 

The conclusion is that the skill that so many people use as a panic button when they are at less than 30% health should in fact be used at the beginning of encounters, since the extra health granted by EP will get eaten, effectively giving you an ~8k bubble when you use it AT THE START.

 

Examples of when this skill is amazing - Foreman crusher's frenzy, every enrage timer, after AOE taunting 10 mobs, Ilum PVP (before the patch),

 

heck, if you have a competent healer that can top you up on demand, you can really abuse your wall of health in PVP and PVE.

 

tl;dr never ever ever use endure pain below 75% health or you waste your skill.

[Dirtysolutions]

NIce, hadnt thought of that... Good one! thx man! got any more?

[Bastus]

I don't know, I never liked the skill. It has been useful I'll admit, but it has never turned the tide for me. It usually just leaves me with 5-10 seconds to cling to life before getting mobbed. In pvp, people seem to love going for the jug. Hell, when I'm on my BH, I personally target this class because they hardly fight back. We're usually doing work, and getting no recognition for it, rather than fighting. Edited March 12, 2012 by Bastus

[InspeckdaDeck]

So much fail jugg here. No wonder people complain about our OP class being useless - people just cant figure out how to use the skills right.

 

Endure pain gives me 30k hp for situations where normally I'd have 22k. Try this:

 

Stand in fleet and take off some armor, then put it back on - this'll give you less than full health. I hit endure pain when I'm at 75% - I got to 90% health! Endure pain runs out a few seconds later, I STAY ABOVE 90% because I had more health during the duration of endure pain than my usual health pool.

 

Now take off all your armor and put it back on - starting this time at 35%, Endure pain takes me to 57%, but after the duration expires I drop to 50% suddenly - less than when I had used the skill at 75%. Stay with me now

 

Last test - from full health hit endure pain, then quickly take off and put on some armor (giving the impression of taking damage). In my test I took off 4 pieces and put them on for 25% health loss. As Endure Pain expired, because the damage I sustained was less than the total health gained no health loss occurred.

 

The conclusion is that the skill that so many people use as a panic button when they are at less than 30% health should in fact be used at the beginning of encounters, since the extra health granted by EP will get eaten, effectively giving you an ~8k bubble when you use it AT THE START.

 

Examples of when this skill is amazing - Foreman crusher's frenzy, every enrage timer, after AOE taunting 10 mobs, Ilum PVP (before the patch),

 

heck, if you have a competent healer that can top you up on demand, you can really abuse your wall of health in PVP and PVE.

 

tl;dr never ever ever use endure pain below 75% health or you waste your skill.

 

I used to use it around half health to give healers a chance to heal me, but this is just hilarious. Endure pain - force charge - force scream(plus sonic barrier) - threat scream - saber ward - smash - invincible = lolwat? Looks like everybodies attacking me, but no damage

[Darthshnooky]

So much fail jugg here. No wonder people complain about our OP class being useless - people just cant figure out how to use the skills right.

 

Endure pain gives me 30k hp for situations where normally I'd have 22k. Try this:

 

Stand in fleet and take off some armor, then put it back on - this'll give you less than full health. I hit endure pain when I'm at 75% - I got to 90% health! Endure pain runs out a few seconds later, I STAY ABOVE 90% because I had more health during the duration of endure pain than my usual health pool.

 

Now take off all your armor and put it back on - starting this time at 35%, Endure pain takes me to 57%, but after the duration expires I drop to 50% suddenly - less than when I had used the skill at 75%. Stay with me now

 

Last test - from full health hit endure pain, then quickly take off and put on some armor (giving the impression of taking damage). In my test I took off 4 pieces and put them on for 25% health loss. As Endure Pain expired, because the damage I sustained was less than the total health gained no health loss occurred.

 

The conclusion is that the skill that so many people use as a panic button when they are at less than 30% health should in fact be used at the beginning of encounters, since the extra health granted by EP will get eaten, effectively giving you an ~8k bubble when you use it AT THE START.

 

Examples of when this skill is amazing - Foreman crusher's frenzy, every enrage timer, after AOE taunting 10 mobs, Ilum PVP (before the patch),

 

heck, if you have a competent healer that can top you up on demand, you can really abuse your wall of health in PVP and PVE.

 

tl;dr never ever ever use endure pain below 75% health or you waste your skill.

 

Sssshhhh stop giving away all our secrets!

[willisnorton]

Ardelia, InspeckdaDeck, Darthsnooky, and other knowledgeable posters.

 

You guys are spot on how its done.

 

I use it after a medpack just for the heck of it when a group of 2-3 players think they are about to take me down then bam full health bar = discouraged foes (Under 50 PVP). Doing this with a healer in under 50 pvp and I was at full health holding the hutt ball being blasted and hacked by 4 players. Full health bar the just walking around being blasted (my healer was almost unreachable above me). I stopped and did a 360 look around without using any abilities (or taking any visible hits to my hp) this really ticked off the other team so they killed my healer, but I passed and we scored. Can't do that in lvl 50 pvp, the players are too skilled- but it was a good time.

[Dracosz]

The issue is that in PvP at least Pre-emptive defensive cooldowns are a lot easier to counter. In PvE the ability functions fine because there are no true "spike" encounters (except perhaps nightmare soa as a DPS) and the damage is far easier to heal through.

 

In PvP, the ability is moot. You can pop it and charge in... and your opponent can CC you and run away and the cooldown is wasted. The aforementioned scenarios with "1 health remaining" are a lot more commonplace than you might think (I've seen and personally gone from 6k health to nothing in a second because EP fades.

 

Defensive cooldowns for classes like the juggernaut need to be reactive, not retroactive and that fundamentally weakens the premise of endure pain.

Edited March 12, 2012 by Dracosz

[Darthshnooky]

The issue is that in PvP at least Pre-emptive defensive cooldowns are a lot easier to counter. In PvE the ability functions fine because there are no true "spike" encounters (except perhaps nightmare soa as a DPS) and the damage is far easier to heal through.

 

In PvP, the ability is moot. You can pop it and charge in... and your opponent can CC you and run away and the cooldown is wasted. The aforementioned scenarios with "1 health remaining" are a lot more commonplace than you might think (I've seen and personally gone from 6k health to nothing in a second because EP fades.

 

Defensive cooldowns for classes like the juggernaut need to be reactive, not retroactive and that fundamentally weakens the premise of endure pain.

 

If you go from "6k health to nothing" then you are using it reactively, not proactively. Like the rest of our defensive cooldowns, it works best if you use it to anticipate a scenario. Someone else posted a nice long comment about how to use it best, so i won't belabor the point. But i will recap by saying you should be using it before you hit 75% hp or lower. People don't expect you to use the cooldowns when you "don't" need them and so they are slower to deal with it.

 

By the time they figure out why you seem to be unkillable, the duration has ended and you got the full benefit of it.

 

Also, Endure Pain + PvP Medkit (in that order) = win! (PvP medkit heals you for a percentage of your max hp, which is boosted by EP, in case i was being too vague)

[Dracosz]

If you go from "6k health to nothing" then you are using it reactively, not proactively. Like the rest of our defensive cooldowns, it works best if you use it to anticipate a scenario. Someone else posted a nice long comment about how to use it best, so i won't belabor the point. But i will recap by saying you should be using it before you hit 75% hp or lower. People don't expect you to use the cooldowns when you "don't" need them and so they are slower to deal with it.

 

By the time they figure out why you seem to be unkillable, the duration has ended and you got the full benefit of it.

 

Also, Endure Pain + PvP Medkit (in that order) = win! (PvP medkit heals you for a percentage of your max hp, which is boosted by EP, in case i was being too vague)

 

I'm fully aware of how the ability works and why it works the way it does. That being said, it's still piss-poor design relative to every other defensive cooldown in the game. No other class has the potential to be punished for usage of a defensive CD (Barring perhaps marauders, but even they have other cds on short cooldowns that work in tandem with theirs quite well).

 

And yes, I use endure pain reactively, it's very much a cooldown that *can* save you in a fight if it's timed well (or as a nice way to BM someone that you 100-0). That being said, the loss of health at the end leads to very unacceptable situations.

 

Perhaps never letting endure pain drop you below 10% of your max health would be a nice way to handle the whole "dying at 1 health scenario", but that's just me talking out my *** I suppose.

Edited March 13, 2012 by Dracosz

[coldserpent]

Would it help any if said juggernaut had biochem for the Rakata medpac, popped Endure Pain, and just before it ended, popped the Rakata medpac? I haven't gotten the material to make my Rakata medpac yet, so I don't know yet what the effects would be in either PvP or PvE. If anyone can shed some info, that'd be great.

[Kakokun]

A defensive CD that requires outside influence to function as a defensive CD is bad design.

[Hansuki]

I'm fully aware of how the ability works and why it works the way it does. That being said, it's still piss-poor design relative to every other defensive cooldown in the game. No other class has the potential to be punished for usage of a defensive CD (Barring perhaps marauders, but even they have other cds on short cooldowns that work in tandem with theirs quite well).

 

And yes, I use endure pain reactively, it's very much a cooldown that *can* save you in a fight if it's timed well (or as a nice way to BM someone that you 100-0). That being said, the loss of health at the end leads to very unacceptable situations.

 

Perhaps never letting endure pain drop you below 10% of your max health would be a nice way to handle the whole "dying at 1 health scenario", but that's just me talking out my *** I suppose.

 

 

Ill add this in addition to my previous post about why endure pain is actually amazing and not broken or "piss-poor". Basically my other post concluded that if you use endure pain above 75% you get the equivalent of an ~6-8k health bubble.

 

Lets say you used EP at 25% health while being pounded on by two guys - you go to 50% health and kill one guy by the time your healer arrives some 8 seconds later. He sees your health is low from fighting two guys, ~20% but before he can cast his heal, however, your endure pain wears off and you go from 20% to 1hp - enough for the remaining guy to get an easy KO. You rage because you had more health and that heal would have hit you if only the healer bubbled first etc etc...

 

Well think about that for a sec - the hazard of being left with 1 hp is moot when the situation that caused you to use EP at 25% would have killed you faster than if you hadn't used it at all. If you survive the situation long enough for endure pain to leave you at 1 health, hopefully you made good with that extra time you had before those two guys rolled you - and your healer coming up behind you.

 

The trick with EP is to use it at full or near full health - but if you use it as a reactive skill when at low heath, remember that it becomes a different skill. In no way is endure pain equivalent to a free heal. At full health it behaves like a bubble; at low health, as a last stand.

[InspeckdaDeck]

I was playing around with endure p last night and its awsome, but its not a panic button. Saber ward with the 2 sec imunity is our panic. Use ep at full health an all damage u take means little, with sonic barrier or invincable the damage you can soak up is unreal. I luv jugg

[Noth]

The trick with EP is to use it at full or near full health - but if you use it as a reactive skill when at low heath, remember that it becomes a different skill. In no way is endure pain equivalent to a free heal. At full health it behaves like a bubble; at low health, as a last stand.

 

So it's worse than a bubble because even after it is used up it hurts you when it ends and it's worse than actual last stand because it lasts shorter in a game with a longer TTK. The skill sucks as a survivability cooldown.

[InspeckdaDeck]

So it's worse than a bubble because even after it is used up it hurts you when it ends and it's worse than actual last stand because it lasts shorter in a game with a longer TTK. The skill sucks as a survivability cooldown.

 

Your not listening to what ppl are saying. If you throw up endure pain before you attack someone(while your health is at or near full) it becomes an hp shield. Example, I have 10k hp, use endure pain and gain 3k, I then take 4k damage. Because of endure pain I would have 9k hp instead of 6k, add that with sonic barrier, invincable etc and you wld be even better off.

 

I think people are mad because endure pain isnt a save me button(which it still kinda is). It does not suck and when used properly can make you nigh unstopable. By using ep, sonic barrie, and saber war with good timing I was able to bully lvl 50's(while at 33) off the sand crawler on tatt. Read the link in my sig, its hilaroius how annoying an imortal jugg can be.

[Dracosz]

Basically my other post concluded that if you use endure pain above 75% you get the equivalent of an ~6-8k health bubble.

 

The trick with EP is to use it at full or near full health - but if you use it as a reactive skill when at low heath, remember that it becomes a different skill.

 

A cooldown should not penalize you for attempting to use it to save your life. As I said, pre-emptive cds (which is what endure pain effectively amounts to) are REALLY piss poor design for melee classes.

 

Endure pain needs to be reactive or scrapped, it's not acceptable in it's current form. You might be able to use it for greater effect (and believe me I've done so). That doesn't stop me from criticizing it. With 1.2 coming around I'd rather have a cooldown that's dependable and usable without fear of being penalized.

 

Just because you can make it work in very specific scenarios doesn't mean that it's good design.

 

 

I think people are mad because endure pain isnt a save me button(which it still kinda is). It does not suck and when used properly can make you nigh unstopable. By using ep, sonic barrie, and saber war with good timing I was able to bully lvl 50's(while at 33) off the sand crawler on tatt. Read the link in my sig, its hilaroius how annoying an imortal jugg can be.

 

 

Competent players would have destroyed you, no offense.

Edited March 13, 2012 by Dracosz