Just switched from Watchmen to Combat...

[JustinxDuff]

I recently switched to Watchman from Combat and it's night and day in terms of how much less stressful it is to play.

 

Combat is chaotic and you really have to be on your toes to squeeze out the damage you want. You have to be incredibly aware and you have to have incredibly quick reflexes to adjust your prioritized attacks to fit in incredibly small windows. You almost have to be hyper aware at all times.

 

Watchman is much more relaxed and gathered and you really don't have to stress nearly as much. It's much more of a set rotation and there is very little you need to worry about. Set your dots, do your Merciless, wait for your Juyo stacks, wait for Zen (which you don't feel like you can even waste because it's almost always up, unlike Combat) and do it all over again for greater damage. This is just in my experience and YMMV.

 

In my opinion, Combat is much more satisfying and a greater challenge than Watchman, it's just too bad it's not as viable at this point. I do miss it greatly.

 

I'm with ya on that! Combat is definitely a fun spec, it is too bad its damage is sub-par though.

[Vodrin]

combat just doesn't have the survivability that watchmen has and blade storm isn't anywhere near as good as merc slash even with buffs up... I consistently see 3k+ hits with my merc slash... thing is a beast.

 

My Blade storm crits for 3-3.5K on most non-tanks, has a lower focus cost, and a shorter cooldown than mercilus. How is that not nearly as good again?

 

The way I see it, combat's major advantage is that it has more controllable potentially front loaded burst than watchman. You don't need to use zen to bring burst (although it does help), and all your DPS abilities have relatively low focus costs. The reduced cooldown on Zealous strike also helps.

 

The other big advantage of combat over watchman (and one that is rarely talked about) is that a good combat sentinel is almost impossible to kite. Root/snare break on force cammo, innate speed boost, and 15 m (with PvP gear) ranged root give a major advantage.

 

That said, watchman is still very good with superior ability to soak up damage, superior sustained damage, comparable burst damage, and group heals. The interrupts are also downright awesome.

[Superpescado]

My Blade storm crits for 3-3.5K on most non-tanks, has a lower focus cost, and a shorter cooldown than mercilus. How is that not nearly as good again?

 

The way I see it, combat's major advantage is that it has more controllable potentially front loaded burst than watchman. You don't need to use zen to bring burst (although it does help), and all your DPS abilities have relatively low focus costs. The reduced cooldown on Zealous strike also helps.

 

The other big advantage of combat over watchman (and one that is rarely talked about) is that a good combat sentinel is almost impossible to kite. Root/snare break on force cammo, innate speed boost, and 15 m (with PvP gear) ranged root give a major advantage.

 

That said, watchman is still very good with superior ability to soak up damage, superior sustained damage, comparable burst damage, and group heals. The interrupts are also downright awesome.

 

I do agree combat has more ways to snare and brake root/snare but really leg smash is only 2 focus (1 if talented in focus) and I've never had issues using it to keep people snared in any spec. Talented Crippling throw is a good substitute for it because of the debuff.

 

The only times I have issues with being kited is if I'm jumped by a skilled ranged class and my cooldowns are not up.

 

I've tried all 3 specs and if you're talking pvp I wouldn't go anything other than watchman. Just my opinion as a BM sentinal for almost a month. Having said that it does come down to how one likes to play and if someone just doesn't like the watchman style then they're better off going with something that is comfortable to them.

[Zag_Stratos]

- Watchmen

 

It's the most reliable and constant. Without centering stacks and zen, you're doing a very decent amount of damage on a consistent base. Merc Slash will be your burst but it is indeed very focus intensive. It's the hardest spec to play in the game and that's after playing pretty much every class with every spec at least a few nights in a row. Dispell will screw you up but in truth, it rarely happens in a WZ. Your dots are fast and efficient. In Zen mode, Watchmen is a 1 on 1 terror and NOTHING should actually survive you. Zen is our WIN button.

 

- Combat

 

Combat seems stronger and that's because in a huge battle, you'll fight someone a few seconds and move on. That's where combat shines... you Tab someone, unleash on him and move on. If your lucky, you'll kill him in one combo volley. You can drop a cloth wearer to 10% hp in one single combo. It's fast and very brutal/efficient but not as constant. In a longer fight, you're not going to grow stronger. Overall, it's easier to play combat and a lot more fun but the truth is, Watchmen is still superior in every sense of utility, damage and sustainability.

[PantsOn]

- Watchmen

 

It's the most reliable and constant. Without centering stacks and zen, you're doing a very decent amount of damage on a consistent base. Merc Slash will be your burst but it is indeed very focus intensive. It's the hardest spec to play in the game and that's after playing pretty much every class with every spec at least a few nights in a row. Dispell will screw you up but in truth, it rarely happens in a WZ. Your dots are fast and efficient. In Zen mode, Watchmen is a 1 on 1 terror and NOTHING should actually survive you. Zen is our WIN button.

 

- Combat

 

Combat seems stronger and that's because in a huge battle, you'll fight someone a few seconds and move on. That's where combat shines... you Tab someone, unleash on him and move on. If your lucky, you'll kill him in one combo volley. You can drop a cloth wearer to 10% hp in one single combo. It's fast and very brutal/efficient but not as constant. In a longer fight, you're not going to grow stronger. Overall, it's easier to play combat and a lot more fun but the truth is, Watchmen is still superior in every sense of utility, damage and sustainability.

 

Where does this myth that Watchman is the more difficult spec to play come from? It's so much easier to be good at than Combat, it's not even funny.

 

Combat requires hyper awareness at all times. You have to have your eyes on your status bar (which will change your priority COMPLETELY depending on what's procced) and on your enemies while, at the same time, trying to mash 4 buttons to squeeze in a combo.

 

Not only that, your rhythm completely changes when you pop Zen, while Watchman stays constant the whole time.

 

I honestly think people who say Watchman is more difficult really just don't have enough experience.

Edited March 1, 2012 by PantsOn

[LiveandDieinLA]

I agree with Pantson,

 

Watchman isn't a more difficult spec to play because:

a) your damage comes from dots, which means you need less up time

b) overload saber lasts until you apply the 3 melee attacks, whereas precision slash requires you to make moves in a very short window.

[Spungey]

lol @ the guy saying Zen is what makes watchman have burst. My burns seem to crit everytime, and on top of that..I can merc slash you for 4.5k+...Highest Merc Slash I've done to date is 6,719. Inspiration + rakata pwr relic + rakata pwr adrenal.

 

I've tried combat, and the only burst I see is with the 100% armor pen..while ur waiting for your precision slash to come off cd, my dots are rolling for 1.4k from overload and 700from cauterize. then wait..here comes a 4.5k merc slash, oh snap refresh of cauterize then force stasis while you bleed out...then pop dispatch your arse and your dead..nothing you can do about it.

 

imho..the watchman sentinel is by far the superior spec in both pve and pvp. Its still all about personal preference..but combat just seems like the 6 second hero. then you gotta force camo out of there.

 

But i feel a nerf bat coming, because there isn't one class a half witted watchman sent can't destory.

[Ganiccus]

I have played all 3 specs consistently in PvP.

 

Watchman is the best bar none.

 

Seconded. I said it a month ago and got flamed for it, and still do, but it's just the truth.

 

Combat is clunky, slow, and weak comparatively.

[JustinxDuff]

My Blade storm crits for 3-3.5K on most non-tanks, has a lower focus cost, and a shorter cooldown than mercilus. How is that not nearly as good again?

 

The way I see it, combat's major advantage is that it has more controllable potentially front loaded burst than watchman. You don't need to use zen to bring burst (although it does help), and all your DPS abilities have relatively low focus costs. The reduced cooldown on Zealous strike also helps.

 

The other big advantage of combat over watchman (and one that is rarely talked about) is that a good combat sentinel is almost impossible to kite. Root/snare break on force cammo, innate speed boost, and 15 m (with PvP gear) ranged root give a major advantage.

 

That said, watchman is still very good with superior ability to soak up damage, superior sustained damage, comparable burst damage, and group heals. The interrupts are also downright awesome.

 

My merc slash hits for just as much as your blade storm while my overload saber is critting for 1k at the same time. As combat you have to have a perfect rotation to keep your blade storm that high, with merc slash you don't. There is no 15m root as combat, you are thinking of dispatch which is our execute which gets the 5m bonus from pvp gear. You cannot compare the damage output, 6s interrupt, and heals to combat. Watchman is far superior.

Edited March 1, 2012 by JustinxDuff

[OldxLady]

Whats witht he false tumors? Balde Storm hits for about 1k-1.5k less base damage than Merc Slash. So make your numbers when it crits for both...

 

That said Combat is not a bad spec, its just it lack damage you get from Watcchman both in PvE and PvE, thats a fact. Anyone saying anything else is clueless and is just making gueses.

 

I know it, because I was Combat and later on Hybrid Combat/Focus build (Blade Storm for 1Focus 6s CD build) and know that for the damage you do with pure Combat spec you can do 1/3 more damage with Watchman. The only thing that makes Combat at all in line with the other two specs is it "Roots", rest is at best avarage...

[PantsOn]

Seconded. I said it a month ago and got flamed for it, and still do, but it's just the truth.

 

Combat is clunky, slow, and weak comparatively.

 

Combat is the opposite of slow and clunky. *** are you even talking about? If you think Combat is slow and clunky, you were doing something wrong. It is weaker than Watchman, that's a fact. Saying it's slow and clunky, however, exposes you as someone who doesn't really know what they're talking about.

[JustinxDuff]

Combat is the opposite of slow and clunky. *** are you even talking about? If you think Combat is slow and clunky, you were doing something wrong. It is weaker than Watchman, that's a fact. Saying it's slow and clunky, however, exposes you as someone who doesn't really know what they're talking about.

 

Rotation wise, it is slow and clunky.

[Zag_Stratos]

Where does this myth that Watchman is the more difficult spec to play come from? It's so much easier to be good at than Combat, it's not even funny.

 

Combat requires hyper awareness at all times. You have to have your eyes on your status bar (which will change your priority COMPLETELY depending on what's procced) and on your enemies while, at the same time, trying to mash 4 buttons to squeeze in a combo.

 

Not only that, your rhythm completely changes when you pop Zen, while Watchman stays constant the whole time.

 

I honestly think people who say Watchman is more difficult really just don't have enough experience.

 

I disagree on that but that's a matter of perception I guess. I find Watchmen tedious at times where you need to lock on someone, make sure all your dots are on him and that no one dispelled them. Oops, you just did merc slash and now you don't have enough focus to get those dots back on... stuck using strike to get that back while Zealous cooldowns. It's not hard in the sense that you'll never be good at it but one mistake or sudden change of situation and you're out of Focus. Of course, if you practice and perfect your rotations and all, you'll never run into that problem.

 

Now, I never said combat was easy mode or bad. However, without having dots to manage, it is a lot more straight forward. It is indeed, a completely different style of play and overall, Sentinels requires a certain level of concentration to be efficiently played. Yes, you have those dire moments where you need to get all those hits within a certain amount of time (which is completely retarded) however, outside of that, focus is a lot easier to manage and because you do not need to rely on dots, it's a a lot more straight forward.

 

If you're combat spec user, no one here is saying that you're playing ease mode. Sentinel is a complex class to play on its own.

[Vodrin]

My merc slash hits for just as much as your blade storm while my overload saber is critting for 1k at the same time. As combat you have to have a perfect rotation to keep your blade storm that high, with merc slash you don't. There is no 15m root as combat, you are thinking of dispatch which is our execute which gets the 5m bonus from pvp gear. You cannot compare the damage output, 6s interrupt, and heals to combat. Watchman is far superior.

 

Vicious throw gets the same range buff as dispatch, and has a talented root in combat, and I generally disagree. I'd agree that combat is far harder to get close to ideal damage output with (which is why I was stating earlier that watchman is the easiest of the 3 trees to approach ideal PvP performance with), but I disagree that watchman is far superior. I've defeated several supposedly good annihilation Marauders, as combat does have counters for the advantages you listed.

 

I'll agree watchman is a very strong PvP build, and that it does confer some advantages over the other trees, but when you say it is definitively better for PvP than combat or focus I have to disagree.

[Vodrin]

 

That said Combat is not a bad spec, its just it lack damage you get from Watcchman both in PvE and PvE, thats a fact. Anyone saying anything else is clueless and is just making gueses.

 

For sustained combat you are correct, watchman is significantly more damage. For burst you are simply wrong. A properly set up combat burst cycle is at least as good as a watchman burst cycle, and there are several battlemaster geared annihilation marauders that have died thinking they had the same burst I do.

[JustinxDuff]

Vicious throw gets the same range buff as dispatch, and has a talented root in combat, and I generally disagree. I'd agree that combat is far harder to get close to ideal damage output with (which is why I was stating earlier that watchman is the easiest of the 3 trees to approach ideal PvP performance with), but I disagree that watchman is far superior. I've defeated several supposedly good annihilation Marauders, as combat does have counters for the advantages you listed.

 

I'll agree watchman is a very strong PvP build, and that it does confer some advantages over the other trees, but when you say it is definitively better for PvP than combat or focus I have to disagree.

 

Yea my mistake, I forgot both throws got the bonus. It seems those Mara were not very good if they lost to a combat sent. It is most definitely better than the other trees in PvP...especially with the ranked WZs coming.

Edited March 1, 2012 by JustinxDuff

[thanealpha]

Nice to hear something positive on Combat spec! Couple questions:

 

1) Defensive Forms; Do you notice the 15% speed increase when Sprint is off during combat?

 

2) Is Debilitation working? Is it rooting people?

 

Yes and yes.

 

Combat is fun...in fact I stick with it even though I can almost guarentee it's less damage than watchman AND no heals.

 

I stick with it because it "feels" better and I enjoy it more. But I know I'm self gimping.

[Vodrin]

Yea my mistake, I forgot both throws got the bonus. It seems those Mara were not very good if they lost to a combat sent. It is most definitely better than the other trees in PvP...especially with the ranked WZs coming.

 

Or maybe you've never run into anyone who could play combat/carnage at a near optimum level.

[thanealpha]

I can merc slash you for 4.5k+...Highest Merc Slash I've done to date is 6,719. Inspiration + rakata pwr relic + rakata pwr adrenal.

 

.

 

This.

 

I can almost guarentee that Combat cannot hit this hard even by stacking three skills deep to insure the maximum penetration and crit.

 

Combat SHOULD have higher burst, but it doesn't. Bladestorm is a bit too weak, and blade rush just isn't enough to make up for that difference.

Edited March 1, 2012 by thanealpha

[PantsOn]

I disagree on that but that's a matter of perception I guess. I find Watchmen tedious at times where you need to lock on someone, make sure all your dots are on him and that no one dispelled them. Oops, you just did merc slash and now you don't have enough focus to get those dots back on... stuck using strike to get that back while Zealous cooldowns. It's not hard in the sense that you'll never be good at it but one mistake or sudden change of situation and you're out of Focus. Of course, if you practice and perfect your rotations and all, you'll never run into that problem.

 

Now, I never said combat was easy mode or bad. However, without having dots to manage, it is a lot more straight forward. It is indeed, a completely different style of play and overall, Sentinels requires a certain level of concentration to be efficiently played. Yes, you have those dire moments where you need to get all those hits within a certain amount of time (which is completely retarded) however, outside of that, focus is a lot easier to manage and because you do not need to rely on dots, it's a a lot more straight forward.

 

If you're combat spec user, no one here is saying that you're playing ease mode. Sentinel is a complex class to play on its own.

 

I'm Watchman. I did play Combat extensively (I leveled all the way as Combat and got to Valor 26 with it before switching). The required awareness and concentration is night and day for me personally.

[JustinxDuff]

Or maybe you've never run into anyone who could play combat/carnage at a near optimum level.

 

I have and that person is me. It is not anywhere near as good as watchman, especially without the interrupt cd being lowered.

[Metaspark]

any arguments that combat is the inferior spec are invalid for one reason: I enjoy playing combat

 

 

 

 

we did remember that games are meant to be played to enjoy them, not as another job, right?

[JustinxDuff]

any arguments that combat is the inferior spec are invalid for one reason: I enjoy playing combat

 

 

 

 

we did remember that games are meant to be played to enjoy them, not as another job, right?

 

I am strictly talking from a competitive PvP standpoint. If you have fun with it then do it but don't go claiming it is more effective.

Edited March 1, 2012 by JustinxDuff

[Metaspark]

I am strictly talking from a competitive PvP standpoint. If you have fun with it then do it but don't go claiming it is more effective.

 

I was actually referring more to the people that were insulting anyone that wasn't playing watchman

[Vodrin]

I am strictly talking from a competitive PvP standpoint. If you have fun with it then do it but don't go claiming it is more effective.

 

It's definitely not more effective, but it also is not ineffective. I just have a problem with people coming to the forums and saying that a particular class or build is completely ineffective when it simply is not true. It's true that merciless slash hits harder than any single ability with a combat spec, but that does not mean that combat cannot burst hard and be very effective for getting kills, particularly against skilled players on ranged classes.

 

I get that you are a good player who tried both combat and watchman and finds watchman far more effective, but that does not mean that is true for every good sentinel out there. To think that it is just makes you arrogant and reduces your credibility.

 

For the player that talks about merciless hitting harder too, remember that a singularity loaded force sweep hits 20% harder than merciless, and it will crit more often (even if you do not use a leap to make it crit 100%). Does that mean focus has the best overall burst of the three trees?