Discussion about this so-called "huge loss of subs"

[Icebaron]

The problem is that you self-centered egoists just can't go quietly, but have to take make these long theatrical displays to tickle your own vanity. If you want to go, then go, and play WoW or worship on the altar of the Great Messiah Guild Wars 2 for months without playing anything. Or whatever. But just don't make it something big - which it isn't. You are just intending to stop playing a computer game.

 

I can't speak for everyone, but I can tell you why I am still here. Even though I left every other mmo I didn't like without a word (Aion, STO, AoC).

 

I am actually mad about this one. It was Star Wars, the perfect IP for an MMO. I was going to live in that galaxy far away and a long time ago. I was going to fly my ship in that galaxy.

 

I heard Bioware was making it, I heard they were going all out. Money galore to spend. So I looked around, saw WoW, saw SWG. I expected all the good things from those game and more. I expected the best mmo ever made. Why not, the most money was being spent. If that doesnt translate to the best then what the hell would...

 

They we get SWTOR. Space on rails. Every feature they cloned from WoW was not done as good as WoW. They copied nothing from SWG that was good. We got a rail shooter in space.

 

I am mad at bioware. I feel angry and betrayed, so I vent here. Looking for others that feel the way I do. Sure I can go vent on another forum for another game, but those guys never loved this game like I loved this game.

[Snibb]

There are no flawless games, even when deluded people seem to think that they can't play a game if it isn't flawless.

 

When it comes to the ArenaNet's army of moonstruck followers, they have been trolling on these forums for years en masse and their PR campaign for their game and hate campaign against our game should not even be mentioned in a same post as legitimate concerns for the game's troublespots.

 

We'd all be better off if you wouldn't call people names like "deluded." I guess, you can assume people are being tasked to maliciously troll the servers, but to say that it happens on a large scale seems a bit far fetched.

On the other hand, the people on these forums that can't see that there are problems with this game and assault people who express concerns are the definition of moonstruck.

 

Also, I agree there is no flawless game, but there are people who feel the game is...

[Drake_Hound]

I can't speak for everyone, but I can tell you why I am still here. Even though I left every other mmo I didn't like without a word (Aion, STO, AoC).

 

I am actually mad about this one. It was Star Wars, the perfect IP for an MMO. I was going to live in that galaxy far away and a long time ago. I was going to fly my ship in that galaxy.

 

I heard Bioware was making it, I heard they were going all out. Money galore to spend. So I looked around, saw WoW, saw SWG. I expected all the good things from those game and more. I expected the best mmo ever made. Why not, the most money was being spent. If that doesnt translate to the best then what the hell would...

 

They we get SWTOR. Space on rails. Every feature they cloned from WoW was not done as good as WoW. They copied nothing from SWG that was good. We got a rail shooter in space.

 

I am mad at bioware. I feel angry and betrayed, so I vent here. Looking for others that feel the way I do. Sure I can go vent on another forum for another game, but those guys never loved this game like I loved this game.

 

Fine then you should be like me , count up the postive and the negative .

If the negative outweighs the postive , take a 6 month break .

 

If not then continue playing .. don´t forget there is a thin line between love and hate.

But if you cannot stand the game with it current flaws.

Then it is beter to take a break , then just playing to cause other grief ingame .

Cause of your frustrations of wanting the perfect product.

 

Sorry enddeal you decide if it is worth it or not , for yourself , not what you wished the product would have been .

[Derfmiolleh]

I think it all boils down to the target market. The MMORPG community is very large these days and growing. I am not sure what type of MMO player BioWare was targeting or even if they had any one kind of player in mind but in my opinion SWtOR is a great game for casual role players. Hard core Raiders seem always a difficult type to keep engaged because they often require very complex and challenging encounters that require a lot of time and money to implement. PvPers are usually so competetive that it is a constant balancing act to keep things feeling fair and equal. Now days I think targeting everyone is a bad idea as you will lose many from each group and start a trend of discontent among social circles, trends that are hard to overcome. Online battles rage between the different types of players. I think Bioware simply needs to find its nitch, cater to that one player type and evolve the game from there. As a casual role player, the stories and exploration along with all of the side games is enough to keep me entertained.

[Snibb]

... then just playing to cause other grief ingame .

Cause of your frustrations of wanting the perfect product.

.

 

Just out of curiousity, if people are worried about grief, why are they discussing the game on the forums? Why even argue with those you all call "haters"? If you feel people are trolling, why feed them?

I would argue that if someone posts "I don't like X about the game" and someone then calls them a crybaby and tells them to go back to WoW, etc... they're being the Troll/flamer.

 

Also, many of us aren't looking for a "perfect product." That's a major misconception (or hyperbole.)

Edited March 1, 2012 by Snibb

[Rouge]

We'd all be better off if you wouldn't call people names like "deluded." I guess, you can assume people are being tasked to maliciously troll the servers, but to say that it happens on a large scale seems a bit far fetched.

On the other hand, the people on these forums that can't see that there are problems with this game and assault people who express concerns are the definition of moonstruck.

 

Tasked? These deluded trolls are on it on their own and in very large numbers. Oh, I'm sure there's probably GW2 fan sites where few of them plot and plan together these hate campaigns they wage here, but that's the extent of planning that goes to it I think.

 

When it comes to problems, the complainers tend to go utterly overboard and draw criticism because of this.

 

They typically think that whatever troubles them is a huge thing that BW should have fixed yesterday at the latest and which should be the high priority for BW to fix now and make threats that they will cancel their subscription - making the fact that they have subscribed to the game something grand and them stopping playing it a Sword of Damocles over BW and the game - and pretty much claim that the game will fail because if they themselves are not fully satisfied with and them ending their subscription supposedly in effect means the failure of the game. Melodramatic megalomaniacs.

[Rafkin]

The biggest problem is the subs they have now are the most they will ever have. Works that way for every game. You have many, many empty servers and its only going to get worse.

 

They are far too slow in fixing things, implementing features they should of launched with. Server mergers are a must and not in 3 months..right now.

 

People in my guild have already started talking up Tera and Secret World and are only playing ToR the kill time.

[Rouge]

Space on rails. Every feature they cloned from WoW was not done as good as WoW. They copied nothing from SWG that was good. We got a rail shooter in space.

 

Seems like you only need World of Warcraft to add free flight in space and you will be a happy MMO player forever more.

[Andryah]

I am mad at bioware. I feel angry and betrayed, so I vent here. Looking for others that feel the way I do. Sure I can go vent on another forum for another game, but those guys never loved this game like I loved this game.

 

Then you should be venting directly at Bioware, via their established channels for complaints and suggestions.

 

Taking it out on other forum members who are enjoying the game is wrong.

[Rouge]

People in my guild have already started talking up Tera and Secret World and are only playing ToR the kill time.

 

TSW is almost 4 months away, TERA was a failure in South Korea and will be a failure in EU and NA. I don't expect it ever to reach as high as even AoC or WAR did. If TSW finally is a polished Funcom game at launch, it could become a succesful game, but considering what I have read about it, it will not be to the taste of the current MMO player generation. And it has Story, which should drive the SWTOR haters away in fear. More cinematicals than SWTOR, goes one claim... If succesful, TSW might be the next RIFT. TERA will be F2P in a year.

[Icebaron]

Fine then you should be like me , count up the postive and the negative .

If the negative outweighs the postive , take a 6 month break .

 

If not then continue playing .. don´t forget there is a thin line between love and hate.

But if you cannot stand the game with it current flaws.

Then it is beter to take a break , then just playing to cause other grief ingame .

Cause of your frustrations of wanting the perfect product.

 

Sorry enddeal you decide if it is worth it or not , for yourself , not what you wished the product would have been .

 

Oh, I cancelled. But I am just explaining why I am here posting rather then moving on like I always have before.

[Icebaron]

Seems like you only need World of Warcraft to add free flight in space and you will be a happy MMO player forever more.

 

if only my orc warrior could weild a lightsaber and kill a krayt dragon...all my dreams would come true. I'd make Thrall proud. Screw the empire, I work for the horde.

[Snibb]

...These deluded trolls...

<Sigh>

...

When it comes to problems, the complainers tend to go utterly overboard and draw criticism because of this....

 

I agree people do go overboard, but let me say that when emotions and personal attacks start, it's real easy to get there. The personal bull needs to stop on both sides... but really on forums, that's nothing but a dream.

When your concerns are called stupid and dismissed by others, what do you think happens then? People get upset and blow things out of proportion.

[Drake_Hound]

The biggest problem is the subs they have now are the most they will ever have. Works that way for every game. You have many, many empty servers and its only going to get worse.

 

They are far too slow in fixing things, implementing features they should of launched with. Server mergers are a must and not in 3 months..right now.

 

People in my guild have already started talking up Tera and Secret World and are only playing ToR the kill time.

 

Then let them go to Terra and Secret World , nobody cares , they would be bored too in 1 month ,

 

And truth Is I don´t see many empty servers , I see many lonely people around who are inept of socialising , cause of a small minority of unsocial thank you F off kind running around .

 

The faster those leave , the beter the game becomes and guess what , if your guild is dying means simply put , you got a inept guild leader that doesn´t want to work for FREE.

 

And who can blaim them , when nobody wants to work for free

[WhiskyJax]

Why they could be right here ...

 

First of March.. lets say we have lost 50% subs ( I know could be more)

 

That leaves us 850 000 subs

According to mmo junkies we have 217 servers so...

850 000 / 217 = 3917 players per server

There are 2 factions so 1958 player per faction

Now we have 33 "zones" 1958/33 leaving us 59 players per zone

 

So that leaves us 59 players per zone but only 10-20% of the player base play during peak hours ..

 

@10% we have 6 players per zone

@15% we have 9 players per zone

@20% we have 12 players per zone

 

These figures are for PEAK playing times and assume equal faction and zone distribution, which of course never happens

[Dzikun]

I unsubbed for a few reasons but mainly just because this game is hellishly boring.

 

I've played allot of MMOs in my time too. I unsubed this early only from warhammer online before. The whole design of the game just doesn't work just like in Warhammer.

 

I slowly did my first character to level 50. The story was ok for the imperial agent and i only started to spacebar through the terribly written sidequests at the end. There were still people around back then but it was the time of my first guilds death.

 

With not much to do but dailies as i don't pvp and the game is not build for roleplaying at all. After becoming one of the last people to log into my guild i decided to do what Bioware said this game is build for... Alts.

 

So i created a Jedi sentinel. The story was amazingly boring and crappy and i started to spacebar through it pretty fast.

 

The whole story element is ridiculous and it shows the best on a Dark side jedi. There are no consequence to your actions. Being dark side III doesn't even make the council think for a second that there MIGHT be something not right with that Jedi who kill hundreds of civilians on aldaraan. I just couldn't suspend my disbelief after the dark side scars started to show for real...

 

 

I found a guild on my sentinel ... Then it died...That was a second one. So all i had left is many hours of the same planets fighting almost the same enemies and doing the same crappy flashpoints that go down in quality SUPER fast after the first one. Fun..

 

The combat is extremely repetitive. There is just to many skills and the mobs just don't do anything but stand there and take it. It all just looks clunky and unattractive.

 

The itemization is just screwed up completely. Why all the greens when non but companions ever use them? Why even have it as quest rewards?Just give us commendations as we all are wearing orange gear anyway...

 

Then there is the loot in flashpoints that is rarely even an upgrade and is mostly for looks anyway. And there is really not many looks to choose from... So flashpoints become just a single time adventure to see whats going on there... Maybe except HMs.

 

I can't take seriously anyone who says this game has something that can hold you for more then a month. The repetitiveness of ALL the damn content even on both sides is just mindbogglingly boring. I couldn't even handle the sentinel and what about when it gets to 50? Will i have to go through All the same content again?! No way!

 

And the population IS dropping. I on both my characters on both sides of the same server couldn't find a flashppoint group on other days then weekends. And my agent is a healer! Both the guilds that died on me had 40+ characters in them all not logging in after a while...

 

So i unsubbed. I thought of giving this game some time but i've learned in the past that some failures that are as basic as SWTORs cannot be fixed. Its just hardcoded into the design of the game.

Edited March 1, 2012 by Dzikun

[Snibb]

Then you should be venting directly at Bioware, via their established channels for complaints and suggestions.

 

Taking it out on other forum members who are enjoying the game is wrong.

 

Lol I tried. When I cancelled my sub, I took the time to write up a very polite summary of what caused me to unsubcribe. When I hit submit, it sent me back to the login screen and erased my whole reply. (which I had just logged in so I could modify my subscription 10 minutes earlier) Meh, ahh well! Just another bug!

[Vecke]

<Sigh>

 

 

I agree people do go overboard, but let me say that when emotions and personal attacks start, it's real easy to get there. The personal bull needs to stop on both sides... but really on forums, that's nothing but a dream.

When your concerns are called stupid and dismissed by others, what do you think happens then? People get upset and blow things out of proportion.

 

If every one that loved the game and everyone that hated the game had your attitude, I think this would be the best forum in the history of the universe.

 

Edit to keep this on topic: Most people react that way because we all like to think our opinions are justified. We take various approaches to do that. Some people post peripherally related fact to support it. Other people attack those that disagree.

 

What most people don't get, though, is that the coolest thing about opinions is mine can directly contradict yours and we both get to be right. No justification needed.

 

The truth is, no player has enough information to know whether subs are increasing or dropping. We can create as many graphs and charts as we want... and we can call our idle speculation "educated guesses" if we want... but the one thing we know is that there are currently too many people playing for us to make any greater assumptions based on our own anecdotal evidence.

Edited March 1, 2012 by Vecke

[SangraelWoW]

Lol I tried. When I cancelled my sub, I took the time to write up a very polite summary of what caused me to unsubcribe. When I hit submit, it sent me back to the login screen and erased my whole reply. (which I had just logged in so I could modify my subscription 10 minutes earlier) Meh, ahh well! Just another bug!

 

The exact same thing happened to me and a friend that unsubbed on the same day. Apparently they don't really want feedback after all

[Rogoo]

This game has the potential to be a very successful game, and I don't know WHAT people are thinking, wanting plenty of endgame raiding content, pvp options, etc only a few months after release.

 

Well... I'm thinking that this is a PVE game, because there is no hardware on the market, that can run PVP with an acceptable framerate.

 

And this is in a game that requires a monthly sub.

 

It's not really destined for greatness, considering how much competition is on the market (and 95% of the competitors operate in the f2p model).

[Drake_Hound]

I unsubbed for a few reasons but mainly just because this game is hellishly boring.

 

I've played allot of MMOs in my time too. I unsubed this early only from warhammer online before. The whole design of the game just doesn't work just like in Warhammer.

 

I slowly did my first character to level 50. The story was ok for the imperial agent and i only started to spacebar through the terribly written sidequests at the end. There were still people around back then but it was the time of my first guilds death.

 

With not much to do but dailies as i don't pvp and the game is not build for roleplaying at all. After becoming one of the last people to log into my guild i decided to do what Bioware said this game is build for... Alts.

 

So i created a Jedi sentinel. The story was amazingly boring and crappy and i started to spacebar through it pretty fast.

 

The whole story element is ridiculous and it shows the best on a Dark side jedi. There are no consequence to your actions. Being dark side III doesn't even make the council think for a second that there MIGHT be something not right with that Jedi who kill hundreds of civilians on aldaraan. I just couldn't suspend my disbelief after the dark side scars started to show for real...

 

 

I found a guild on my sentinel ... Then it died...That was a second one. So all i had left is many hours of the same planets fighting almost the same enemies and doing the same crappy flashpoints that go down in quality SUPER fast after the first one. Fun..

 

The combat is extremely repetitive. There is just to many skills and the mobs just don't do anything but stand there and take it. It all just looks clunky and unattractive.

 

The itemization is just screwed up completely. Why all the greens when non but companions ever use them? Why even have it as quest rewards?Just give us commendations as we all are wearing orange gear anyway...

 

Then there is the loot in flashpoints that is rarely even an upgrade and is mostly for looks anyway. And there is really not many looks to choose from... So flashpoints become just a single time adventure to see whats going on there... Maybe except HMs.

 

I can't take seriously anyone who says this game has something that can hold you for more then a month. The repetitiveness of ALL the damn content even on both sides is just mindbogglingly boring. I couldn't even handle the sentinel and what about when it gets to 50? Will i have to go through All the same content again?! No way!

 

And the population IS dropping. I on both my characters on both sides of the same server couldn't find a flashppoint group on other days then weekends. And my agent is a healer! Both the guilds that died on me had 40+ characters in them all not logging in after a while...

 

So i unsubbed. I thought of giving this game some time but i've learned in the past that some failures that are as basic as SWTORs cannot be fixed. Its just hardcoded into the design of the game.

 

I have to agree with your post , that is why LFD is needed badly .

Sorry been into 2 guilds , were only me and new recruits were active , none of the officer or guild leader for a month ..

 

Why the hell do people start a guild , to just go inactive and then keep recruiting people , just to a dead guild ?

 

Sorry serious note , about people being so seflishe that guild leaders don´t even want to take responsibility anymore .

 

Yes can relate to your story and rightfully so , this is one primary reason LFD cross server should have been implemented , gives people who still want to give this game a chance .

Something to do or other people to meet , then on a dead lazy git server .

Where nobody cares about anything .

 

Serious note , your reason are really obvious don´t worry , the game will make it .

But the story on republic side were really freaking boring !!!

It isn´t meant for people who want to do bad things , how hard i tried with my consular.

The more I think they never planned people to do bad things on republic .

The story element is a bit none realistic ... empire side sadly I had beter story time tons more fun , but not enjoyable endgame character ..

 

What I do enjoy is my trooper even if my class story was garbage , if it wasn´t for the assault canon I wouldn´t have even continue the game.

So you did the right thing to unsub , anyway you should have played a bounty hunter for the story , or a smuggler (only decent story on republic side , even if what i heard the game mechanics are freaking stupid on a smuggler hearsay from a close friend ) .

so if you got time left go play one of those two , on a RP server just for the fun of it

[Andryah]

The exact same thing happened to me and a friend that unsubbed on the same day. Apparently they don't really want feedback after all

 

There are other methods to give them your feedback, if that one failed. It's just that ranting all over the general forums IS NOT one of them.

[Drake_Hound]

just plain bad

 

bad pvp

bad pve

bad all around, three strikes your out. My sub ends in 23 days, and I won't be renewing.

 

Eh after reading your post you wrote in anger , you are a BAD PLAYER ...

So seriously you stink , rofl lmao .

 

When you complain about something , hahah atleast make sure , you don´t write how bad skilled player you were

 

Anyway the game is beter off without you , then with you .. so bad you are rofl .

[ZirusZero]

Honestly I take it people are butthurt that:

A. Not SWG

 

Or

 

B. 100% at their expectations when they should hang in there considering that all 8 chapters aren't finished yet.

[antiviolence]

My personal opinion? SWTOR is like a less than half done jigsaw puzzle when it released and my sub is paying to watch it very slowly being pieced together. I'm pretty sure the game will get better and better as time goes by but how much more time and money can people afford to give just to see those results?

 

And before anyone goes to compare WoW at launch or any other MMO, let me just state that, WoW was released in 2004/5. It's 2011/12 now and you're trying to convince everyone that after 7 years, MMOs are still going to be released in this manner? Then the only improvement we've had since then is prettier graphics.

 

Btw, like I've stated time and time again, I really did like the game.