Discussion about this so-called "huge loss of subs"

[getdownsb]

What people are seeing happens in every MMO.

 

1) Content Drops

2) People consume Content

3) People stop Logging till new content comes out

4) Rinse and Repeat

 

Seriously, on my server at least I'm not seeing any sub loss at least on Imp side. I see 200+ on the fleet every night and a very full Ilum. I think the sub loss issue is exaggerated...and no I'm not a biodrone...see Signature. I have issues just like everyone else is but I'm not going to pretend like my issues are the most important and should be fixed pronto.

 

EDIT: Besides, they are fixing the biggest issue I have right now and that's the stupid Pylons in Eternity Vault.

 

This is only the case with gear grind themepark casual MMOs where "endgame" isn't even on the dev's drawing board.

[Drake_Hound]

I have seen 10yr olds produce more coherent posts. Yes very poor management of guilds does lead "QQ" but if MMO players werent so bad at playing MMO's guilds on both Republic and Imperial would be able to do sandbox. I will have to continue being baby sat in WZ's with the rest of the useless idiots who cant sand box PvP because its too hard. Well they cant cap objectives or defend points of interest in a controlled environment either its like 20 duels going on and everything else is ignored. Warzones should be guild verse guild only (probly more QQ cause you entire guild sucks), not full of useless randoms who are useless at everything and cried because Open World PvP was too hard.

 

And for fact is already told 1000 times , cause you don´t listen .

But think everything is a Q.Q .. you want tons of people playing , then don´t expect them all to be skilled .

If you want to play sandbox PVP go to a sandbox PVP , there you have it .

Small community only the best skilled make it , or the most people guild that gank the small best skilled make it .

 

Sorry real PvP crowd ain´t big , it is that there is tons of CASUAL pvpers , those idiots you call them , that can´t do anything .

Make up for your request and demands , the same people who said in couple post back .

PVE sucks PVP sucks game sucks ...

But can´t avoid AOE cannot Interrupt ,Cannot use cooldowns ...

You expect them to play meaning full PVP ?? but they consider themself hardcore pvpers.

 

[Skoobie]

Combat is slow on unresponsive and I clearly stated two months to get the full set of gear.

 

Of course Bioware isn't listening. They weren't listening when they announced space combat. They weren't listening during beta. They have not been listening and I don't expect them to start now. That is why we have threads like this all over these forums lamenting the failure that is SWTOR today.

 

They need to start listening.

 

Space combat wasn't suppose to be part of the game. The people complained. They added space combat. They listened.

 

What didn't they listen to in beta? Provide examples that aren't left over bugs.

 

This "failure" just opened new servers in a new region of the world, and has been a constant best seller at many retail stores.

Edited March 1, 2012 by Skoobie

[quarlo]

I wouldn't go so far as to say that theres a 'huge loss of subs'. I can only speak for the numbers that I observe. I play toons on 3 different servers with 3 of my groups of friends and on each the people that I play with gets smaller and smaller every day.

 

When the game launched I could count on 30 players being logged on, in one guild alone. Now there are hours at a time where I am the only person logged on in all three guilds.

 

Players on the forums point out Biowares announcment of 2 million boxes sold and 1.7 paid subscribers. But let's not forget that when those numbers were released it was prior to the end of the free month, so technically all those players were 'paid subscribers' whether they were staying in the game or not.

 

Will this game fail? Not a chance in Hell. It's a monster IP and Bioware so there will be people who will play this game no matter what.

 

Will there be people who will consider this game to be a major disappointment? Yes.

[BlackZoback]

For 1.2 to bring in any significant amount of subs they would have to;

 

1. Smooth out gameplay reactions, animations and combat. A player must feel like he is in total control of his actions at all times.

 

2. Introduce Macros. Mouseover macros, cast sequence macros and condition macros (if stealth cast this, if not cast this)

 

3. Open up space combat for 3d flight, include a couple of spots for pvp in space and three or four pve space combat missions in space where others can join them and pvp can happen.

 

4. Make every crafting profession either useful at endgame or so fun they give up some tactical advantage(like cybertech toys).

 

5. Customizable UI with damage meters and proc flashes.

 

6. Customizable interiors on space ship.

 

7. Guild levels, and benefits to said levels.

 

8. Legacy rights to other characters companions and ships. Cross faction too. (might slap a level requirement on ships, otherwise everyone would just level up an Imperal Agent to lvl 16 for their ship).

 

9. A new Tier of gear that is hard to get. It should take the average player at least two months of running raids and five mans to complete the set.

 

10. Two new operations. One with Six bosses that is long and difficult to get through. If any but the most elite group can clear it in a night, you did it wrong. The other one should be a short hard to defeat one boss operation. Think Onyxia or Gruuls Liar.

 

11. Three new five man flashpoints that are hard but worth running, with best gear in current game as drops. Lockout timers to keep em from gearing out in it in a day.

 

12. Cross realm LFD tool.

 

13. A reason to go Republic. Gonna have to give an edge to either pvp or pve till these factions balance out. Maybe an experience gain while leveling and cooler looking social gear. Something, because playing Empire is just too cool to too many people.

 

14. Three new warzones (8v8, 16v16 and 32v32) and a new planet with full all out pvp world objectives and dailies that doesn't lag everyone out (spread everything out).

 

15. Refine your engine so people can gather and not have their frames drop to 10fps. I should have a 10fps drop for every hundred people on my screen at max.

 

16. Shuttle call. One hour cooldown. Use this to get a shuttle that will take you to your ship from anywhere on any planet (except the fleet). One loading screen and bam, on your ship.

 

That should be good enough. Do all this, this game has a chance to turn around. All this takes a year to implement, already too late. You can take a year after doing this to bring more content and guild capital ships.

 

After guild capital ships, find some new big bad *** idea to hook us into playing for another year.

 

edit - added #16

 

Good thing your not being unreasonable.

 

2 ops, 3 flash points, 3 WZs, a whole planet for pvp, guild ships... ya totally something they can wip up and serve to us bug free in the next few weeks.

Edited March 1, 2012 by BlackZoback

[Malefactor]

But let's not forget that when those numbers were released it was prior to the end of the free month,

 

No it wasn't. Those numbers were released and were current as of Feb 1st, after "most" of those 2 million in sales first free month was up. You can read the shareholder conference call transcript to verify.

[AJediKnight]

Space combat wasn't suppose to be part of the game. The people complained. They added space combat. They listened.

 

Yeah, because this is the space combat everyone wanted.

 

I think if you'd asked just about anyone if they'd want a half-baked space-on-rails sim, or to wait a year or two to get something more substantial (while the resources that might have been squandered on said on-rails combat were diverted elsewhere, where they were clearly desperately needed), they'd have told you the latter.

 

Let's not be stupid, shall we? This wasn't the sim anyone was looking for. You can't hand a starving man rotten meat and expect him to clasp your hands in thanks.

 

What didn't they listen to in beta? Provide examples that aren't left over bugs.

 

1) Bad engine. People were saying early-on in the process that something was funky with the in-game action response. What a shock that it grew into a massive issue post-launch.

 

2) Bad UI. Again, people were telling Bioware near the beginning of the process onwards that the UI was shabby, and that customization was needed. You can also add that people asked for more character customization, a combat log, real RVR, and a more solid effort in endgame, all of which was ignored as well.

 

3) The overall 'dead' feel to the game world was something else that was brought up over and over again. People were asking for improvements in this arena almost constantly, and their concerns were brushed aside.

 

Quite frankly, 95% of the problems with the current game not only could be predicted ahead of time, they were. The people asking for fixes were, as a rule, ignored. Communication between the development team and the beta testers was basically as lively as the communication between developers and players is now -- that is to say, there was virtually none.

 

But, please, do tell me that the development team is fully accessible right now. Tell me that the customer service is spectacular, and that 100+ page repeat threads are actively engaged by the people that matter. Tell me that, right now, 1.2 is being developed in a manner that is not only open, but actively addresses most of the major concerns of the playerbase as they exist now.

 

Tell me lies, tell me sweet little lies.

Edited March 1, 2012 by AJediKnight

[Icebaron]

Good thing your not being unreasonable.

 

2 ops, 3 flash points, 3 WZs, a whole planet for pvp, guild ships... ya totally something they can wip up and serve to us bug free in the next few weeks.

 

Technically I said guild ships could wait a year, but everything I listed there should of been in at launch.

 

At least if they put those things in people would know what direction they want to take the game. Right now it just seems as they think the story should be good enough and are kinda shocked and don't understand why they are losing subs when the story is so damn good.

 

In other words, they have to basically change their core philosophy. I don't see it happening.

[Barracudastr]

Technically I said guild ships could wait a year, but everything I listed there should of been in at launch.

 

At least if they put those things in people would know what direction they want to take the game. Right now it just seems as they think the story should be good enough and are kinda shocked and don't understand why they are losing subs when the story is so damn good.

 

In other words, they have to basically change their core philosophy. I don't see it happening.

 

Not only that but they are being a bit to prideful about the initial success.

 

I dont think they have yet to realize they are bleeding subs at an alarming rate due to the fact that they will not do what we want.

 

Because thats what it comes down to. WHAT WE WANT.

 

We want mergers they refuse to even comment. That alone is going to cost them more subs then they know.

 

They are slowly becoming that mmo developer that everyone hates because they cant get it through their heads that community comes first.

 

The whole guild summit thing, honestly thats just a publicity stunt if you ask me I highly doubt anything said there by guild leaders will come to pass.

[BlackZoback]

Technically I said guild ships could wait a year, but everything I listed there should of been in at launch.

 

At least if they put those things in people would know what direction they want to take the game. Right now it just seems as they think the story should be good enough and are kinda shocked and don't understand why they are losing subs when the story is so damn good.

 

In other words, they have to basically change their core philosophy. I don't see it happening.

 

So 4 ops, 18 flash points, 6 WZs, a whole planet for pvp, and slew of random crap for e-peen wavers at release...

 

... totally reasonable.

[cyddney]

I can't even begin to list the reasons that I am quitting. I would go on forever. If you level up to 50 and don't understand why this game is a failure then you probably won't ever understand.

 

It's a nice single player game, since it feels like I'm playing single player 90% of the time. But as a MMO, I'll pass.

[Drake_Hound]

 

1) Bad engine. People were saying early-on in the process that something was funky with the in-game action response. What a shock that it grew into a massive issue post-launch.

 

Here is the difference between somebody who understand combat system scriptiing and people who don´t have a clue , calling a bad engine is like noob talk .

When queing was not set acoomendate the response and cancel queing was badly scripted. combat que debuff que , took blizzard 1.5 years to fix .

 

And animation combat script not properly clipped . still isn´t for some classes.

 

And people blaim it on bad engine , great bunch of beta testers ... real pro real proud of them . not !!

Takes again live for people to come up with solutions . like every freaking game .

 

 

2) Bad UI. Again, people were telling Bioware near the beginning of the process onwards that the UI was shabby, and that customization was needed. You can also add that people asked for more character customization, a combat log, real RVR, and a more solid effort in endgame, all of which was ignored as well.

 

LoL again bunch of amatuer request , who don´t even have a idea that server client were way out of sync to even for combat logs to properly work .

When incoming damage is registrated permanently outgoing damage and heals are missing. you don´t even need combat logs to registrate that ...

 

Again one of those yeah we know something is wrong , but we can´t even properly explain it phantom myth ..

 

The bad UI part I agree there should be movable if fixed UI , especially the radar mission and side bars ... there should have been a third action bar or expanded action bar.

But then again cannot blaim this on beta tester since till 30 not all abilities are shown .

 

 

So honestly doesn´t even take a genious to see where the problems lie .

And what kind of new group of game testers we have .

But don´t worry they done all the beta , just don´t have a clue how to work .

(sorry to insult the good ones who did do there job and thank you for atleast making this game a bit bearable )

 

Thus the internet troll hype sets off , bad engine , no bla bla .. when they have no freaking clue what is wrong .

But fix it , cause something wrong FIX it .

Edited March 1, 2012 by Drake_Hound

[BlackZoback]

Not only that but they are being a bit to prideful about the initial success.

 

I dont think they have yet to realize they are bleeding subs at an alarming rate due to the fact that they will not do what we want.

 

Because thats what it comes down to. WHAT WE WANT.

 

We want mergers they refuse to even comment. That alone is going to cost them more subs then they know.

 

They are slowly becoming that mmo developer that everyone hates because they cant get it through their heads that community comes first.

 

The whole guild summit thing, honestly thats just a publicity stunt if you ask me I highly doubt anything said there by guild leaders will come to pass.

 

Just because they are not listening to the unreasonable trolls that infest this forums, doesn't mean they are not listening.

 

Reasonable suggestion they have listened to:

 

"Can we get an improvement on the indicators for CD and GCD?"

 

And bam! you now have 4 option for each and they even threw in a CD timer just for kicks.

[Kalfear]

What people are seeing happens in every MMO.

 

1) Content Drops

2) People consume Content

3) People stop Logging till new content comes out

4) Rinse and Repeat

 

.

 

Your right on this trend, but the thing you and all you "supporters" fail to grasp is in a typical MMORPG (before WOW cause everything has failed since WOW) this cycle you speak of would happen over a 6-9 month period before people consumed content and the subs dropped.

 

Now with TOR, RIFT, and others, we talking noticable drops after weeks, not months

 

So while your right this cycle happens in almost every MMORPG, your completely out to lunch on it being normal with in a 8 week time slot.

 

If the subs stayed consistant for 6 months, then yeah, just normal cycle and those that tuned out (but left accounts runing) would be back for new content and next expansion.

 

After 8 weeks, those that tune out are done and gone cause chances are they will find something new and exciting to replace this game with in the remaining 46 weeks of the year till next full on expansion.

 

My server has single digit planets during the 5-9 pm period. And this server just 3 weeks ago had 60+ on each planet.

 

Thats a pretty sever drop off in 21 days no matter how you spin it.

 

I thought this game would last 2 years before the F2P bug hit it but this game is losing subs faster then even Rift did. Its looking like 6-12 month period will be the f2P switch over (if Lucas allows that, they might just force EA to run at a loss for contracted time period. I cant guess on that part of contract).

 

And to the guy that talked about 30 servers turning into 4 healthy servers.

 

THATS FAILURE, OUTRIGHT FAILURE

 

Success is not that you and 100 buddies have fun. TOR (As was AoC) are sold and developed as multi million subscriber games for multiple years. If your hitting 80,000 subscribers, you might be making a couple dollars profit but you are listed and veiwed as a complete and utter failure as a game. Not a moderate success, not a small success.

 

Success and failure is based not on breaking even. Its based on meeting market predictions. I think TOR has hit market predictions in box (digital) sales. But its clearly missing the real profitability margin of repeating subscription base. I shudder to think what this game will be like when my 6 month sub finally runs out!

 

Im personally already down from 7 days 10 hours a day play time to 3 days for 3- 4 hours a day play time personally and have no desire to reup more then monthly (if I do even that) at the end of my 6 month sub. TOR is so impressive I just set up a group to play AION (as its gone full on F2P now) in the many no TOR days. Im doing everything I can think of to stretch my game interest to the end of my paid subscription so I dont feel as though it was completely wasted money!

 

The sad thing is, Every issue TOR has could be fixed (I could fix it all design wise and tell them what they missed and where) but it wouldnt matter as

 

YOU ONLY HAVE ONE CHANCE TO MAKE A GOOD FIRST IMPRESSION

 

And EA RPG Division used that one oppertunity up already. Those cancelled accounts will never return now.

 

I sure hope they learn so when they pull trigger on Mass Effect its not suffering the same issues.

 

But I know I will not be a launch day order for the ME MMORPG, Ill wait 3-6 months for the fanboi feedback to work it self out as its doing in TOR and see if ME MMORPG has any staying power or if its just a 2 week and done game as well.

[antiviolence]

So 4 ops, 18 flash points, 6 WZs, a whole planet for pvp, and slew of random crap for e-peen wavers at release...

 

... totally reasonable.

 

Huh? sorry I didnt get this post. Are you talking about the current state of SWTOR?

Edited March 1, 2012 by antiviolence

[Reico]

The sad thing is, Every issue TOR has could be fixed (I could fix it all design wise and tell them what they missed and where)

 

Quick go apply at BW, they really need to fill that armchair dev quota.

[BlackZoback]

Huh? sorry I didnt get this post. Are you talking about the current state of SWTOR?

 

You must have missed the 16 point list the person I quoted said needs to be in 1.2 so the game doesn't fail, then later said should have been in at release.

[antiviolence]

You must have missed the 16 point list the person I quoted said needs to be in 1.2 so the game doesn't fail, then later said should have been in at release.

 

Oh okay got it. Thanks

[Barracudastr]

Just because they are not listening to the unreasonable trolls that infest this forums, doesn't mean they are not listening.

 

Reasonable suggestion they have listened to:

 

"Can we get an improvement on the indicators for CD and GCD?"

 

And bam! you now have 4 option for each and they even threw in a CD timer just for kicks.

 

Cool one thing... and it was hardly game breaking in the first place lol.

 

Im talking about things that are causing people to leave.

 

Dead servers.

 

No communication regarding important issues.

[Drake_Hound]

Cool one thing... and it was hardly game breaking in the first place lol.

 

Im talking about things that are causing people to leave.

 

Dead servers.

 

No communication regarding important issues.

 

Dead servers I agree , they should implement not a merger but a server transfer ..to or from .

 

But then again all my toons are on standard or very high populated server .

 

The no communication regarding important issues , is a bit rude .

Like hardmode operations enrage timers increased by 1 min , not showing up on patch note .

These things very important moral booster for most people .

Should have been shown , even if trolls would make whiney nerf post bla bla .

It is more important that issue are adressed and listened to by the general gaming community .

 

But most of the none communication is that sometimes they are experimenting with trying to improve the game , and it works for 80% beter , 20% worst ...

Sadly sometimes I fall into 20% worst , and sometimes I fall into the 80% beter.

But the whole issue is , they don´t tell us what they done .

 

But one cannot blaim them , cause generally after 3 months still a hostile forum .

Is a wierd thing . usually the hostility stops after 2 month . where only couple of constructive die hard , continue on there crusade .

[TheGoodJunkie]

The game is dying whether you want to admit it or not.

 

The servers are getting less and less full every single day.

 

I leveled a healing merc to 50 and barely was able to find anyone to do heroics with....let alone flash points...and I play a lot.

 

Veela is dying thats for sure.

[reaperkeepet]

I can't even begin to list the reasons that I am quitting. I would go on forever. If you level up to 50 and don't understand why this game is a failure then you probably won't ever understand.

 

It's a nice single player game, since it feels like I'm playing single player 90% of the time. But as a MMO, I'll pass.

 

This game was meant to appeal to both the MMO crowd or the single player crowd. Usually 1 of the two that play it will find that they like it... The other genre of players may or may mot like what the other genre of gaming has to offer here. And then there are the people like me who enjoy both aspects of TOR. Both as a single player RPG or as an MMO.

[BlackZoback]

Cool one thing... and it was hardly game breaking in the first place lol.

 

Im talking about things that are causing people to leave.

 

Dead servers.

 

No communication regarding important issues.

 

They have.. google it, and you'll find that they are currently working on a server transfer feature and hope to have it in 1.3 or sometime in April.

[AJediKnight]

Here is the difference between somebody who understand combat system scriptiing and people who don´t have a clue , calling a bad engine is like noob talk

 

I see a game engine that lags with more than 20 people on screen fighting. I also see a poster named Drake_Hound who can't spell. Why am I supposed to take either seriously?

 

LoL again bunch of amatuer request

 

Yeah, gee, I am so out of line asking for a mechanic that is present in virtually every other MMO on the market.

[BlackZoback]

I see a game engine that lags with more than 20 people on screen fighting. I also see a poster named Drake_Hound who can't spell. Why am I supposed to take either seriously?

 

 

 

Yeah, gee, I am so out of line asking for a mechanic that is present in virtually every other MMO on the market.

 

Not everyone has english as their first language, and are you really going to lie and say that other MMOs don't lag when there are is an abundance of players in one area.