New Oceanic servers for Aus/NZ ONLY

[Stryges]

I am a long-time resident of Taiwan with better than average knowledge of typical internet latencies in the Asia-Pacific region due to previous work I did on behalf of telecom operators, including a submarine fiber optic cable company.

 

Bioware / EA has been somewhat dishonest by way of omission in promoting the "Asia-Pacific" launch of SWTOR. Due to the regional cross-border routing of submarine cables (something entirely outside EA's control), my latency in Taiwan will always on average be about 3x's better when connecting to a US West Coast server than to any server in Australia. This should also be true, albeit to a lesser extent, in Hong Kong and Singapore.

 

Bioware knew, or should have known, that latencies experienced by persons residing in Hong Kong and Singapore (official A-P launch locations) will be much worse on the new Australia-based SWTOR servers than on US West Coast servers. Yet in advertising the A-P launch of SWTOR, Bioware not only failed to inform Hong Kong and Singapore residents that latencies would be significantly worse on the new "Asia-Pacific" servers than existing West Coast servers, but actually implied that the new servers were more suitable for all players in the A-P launch areas.

 

Although it's too much to expect that EA or Bioware will ever apologize for this, perhaps someday Hong Kong and / or Singapore-based SWTOR servers will become available.

 

Thank you for the informative quote. Like I said before, I doubt anything will happen for those of us in the Asian locations, it is still nice to know that I am not crazy and I didn't "misinterpret" the announcement.

[Xrande]

From Indonesia here. I get sub-200 ping to US West - Hyperspace Cannon.

 

The fake "Asia Pacific" - 300-500. If they named it Oceanic, we would have been more fine. But exploiting HK, SG as official launch countries are lame.

[Ashraman]

EDIT: Oh my, the situation for EA is worse than I thought. The advertising is more than deceptive; it's flat-out false with respect to the Hong Kong and Singapore A-P launch locations. It's my understanding SWTOR was advertised in HK and Singapore using the following promotional wording:

 

"New servers in the Asia Pacific region will provide a world class game experience to our customers. It will allow them to play with players from the same time zone, bringing the Asia Pacific community together. It will also allow players to take advantage of decreased network latency by placing the game on a regional server."

 

False advertising is regarded in many jurisdictions as a serious criminal offense. The multinational shoemaker Reebok in September 2011 agreed to pay a fine of US$25 million to the US Fair Trade Commission due to "deceptive" advertising stating that use of Reebok shoes would lead to more toned legs.

 

http://au.ibtimes.com/articles/221887/20110929/false-advertising-implicates-reebok-pays-25m-as-fines.htm

 

As compared to Reebok's advertisng, EA's is much more clearly false advertising as the claim that Singapore and HK players will experience "decreased network latency" on SWTOR "A-P Servers" is patently false.

 

Singapore's on point law in this regard is the "Consumer Protection (Fair Trading) Act" (the "Act") which prohibits a supplier from (a) causing a consumer to be deceived or misled, (b) making a false claim, or © taking advantage of a consumer. The full body of the Act can be found at the following website of the Singapore Ministry of Trade and Industry:

 

http://app.mti.gov.sg/default.asp?id=84

 

Section 4 of the Act defines a prohibited "unfair practice" in pertinent part as follows:

 

"Meaning of unfair practice

4. It is an unfair practice for a supplier, in relation to a consumer transaction —

(a) to do or say anything, or omit to do or say anything, if as a result a consumer might reasonably be deceived or misled;

(b) to make a false claim;

© to take advantage of a consumer if the supplier knows or ought reasonably to know that the consumer — (i) is not in a position to protect his own interests; or

(ii) is not reasonably able to understand the character, nature, language or effect of the transaction or any matter related to the transaction; or

(d) without limiting the generality of paragraphs (a), (b) and ©, to do anything specified in the Second Schedule."

 

Per Section 9, upon application by the appropriate Singapore governmental entity, a Singapore court may grant an injunction preventing the "unfair practice". The injunction might go so far as to prevent all sales of SWTOR in Singapore, although it is more likely that the injunction would simply ban the current advertising and require that a corrective statement be issued by the supplier.

Edited March 1, 2012 by Ashraman

[Ashraman]

Hopefully I will not be banned for posting the above information, but if that happens, although I will be sad as I love the game, warts and all, I will still know that I did nothing wrong. Edited March 1, 2012 by Ashraman

[BIazeOfGlory]

edit: Oh my, the situation for ea is worse than i thought. The advertising is more than deceptive; it's flat-out false with respect to the hong kong and singapore a-p launch locations. It's my understanding swtor was advertised in hk and singapore using the following promotional wording:

"new servers in the asia pacific region will provide a world class game experience to our customers. It will allow them to play with players from the same time zone, bringing the asia pacific community together. it will also allow players to take advantage of decreased network latency by placing the game on a regional server."

 

false advertising is regarded in many jurisdictions as a serious criminal offense. The multinational shoemaker reebok in september 2011 agreed to pay a fine of us$25 million to the us fair trade commission due to "deceptive" advertising stating that use of reebok shoes would lead to more toned legs.

 

http://au.ibtimes.com/articles/221887/20110929/false-advertising-implicates-reebok-pays-25m-as-fines.htm

 

as compared to reebok's advertisng, ea's is much more clearly false advertising as the claim that singapore and hk players will experience "decreased network latency" on swtor "a-p servers" is patently false.

 

Singapore's on point law in this regard is the "consumer protection (fair trading) act" (the "act") which prohibits a supplier from (a) causing a consumer to be deceived or misled, (b) making a false claim, or © taking advantage of a consumer. The full body of the act can be found at the following website of the singapore ministry of trade and industry:

 

http://app.mti.gov.sg/default.asp?id=84

 

section 4 of the act defines a prohibited "unfair practice" in pertinent part as follows:

 

"meaning of unfair practice

4. It is an unfair practice for a supplier, in relation to a consumer transaction —

(a) to do or say anything, or omit to do or say anything, if as a result a consumer might reasonably be deceived or misled;

(b) to make a false claim;

© to take advantage of a consumer if the supplier knows or ought reasonably to know that the consumer — (i) is not in a position to protect his own interests; or

(ii) is not reasonably able to understand the character, nature, language or effect of the transaction or any matter related to the transaction; or

(d) without limiting the generality of paragraphs (a), (b) and ©, to do anything specified in the second schedule."

 

per section 9, upon application by the appropriate singapore governmental entity, a singapore court may grant an injunction preventing the "unfair practice". The injunction might go so far as to prevent all sales of swtor in singapore, although it is more likely that the injunction would simply ban the current advertising and require that a corrective statement be issued by the supplier.

 

hear hear!

[twinionx]

I tried out the new servers from Japan. I get a general ping of 280-290ms with occasional spikes up to around 400ms. Compare that to my general 130-140ms ping to my U.S. server and its just basically double. This makes sense since the cabling has my signal go from Japan-U.S.-Aus. Double the distance, double the ping.

 

I think this is just a case of Bioware being naive and uniformed about how international routing works for internet. Its great if you live in Aus., however. I don't see how they can fix this. They aren't going to open servers in all four of the Asian/Pacific countries (only 4 on the Bioware map of the world, apparently) and they aren't going to lay down new undersea cable bewteen Aus and the rest of the Asia/Pacific region.

 

Bioware can fix this.

 

A.) Just place new servers in Singapore. Other asian countries should have good ping to Singapore.

 

OR

 

B.) Officially recognise harbinger, swiftsure and jek jek tar as "asian servers" and rename the new asia pacific as oceanic servers.

 

THEN

 

1.) Provide free transfers of characters for ALL players that registered under any Asian countries (S'pore, HK, Japan, Taiwan, China, SEA countries etc...) to the new asian servers (either new or assigned)

 

2.) E-mail to the above asian players about the new asian servers and also free transfer.

[Kexin]

Bioware can fix this.

 

A.) Just place new servers in Singapore. Other asian countries should have good ping to Singapore.

 

OR

 

B.) Officially recognise harbinger, swiftsure and jek jek tar as "asian servers" and rename the new asia pacific as oceanic servers.

 

THEN

 

1.) Provide free transfers of characters for ALL players that registered under any Asian countries (S'pore, HK, Japan, Taiwan, China, SEA countries etc...) to the new asian servers (either new or assigned)

 

2.) E-mail to the above asian players about the new asian servers and also free transfer.

 

This is brilliant. It would also fix the pop issue Harbinger and Swiftsure now that Roo lovers have left.

[xfreidax]

I don't think there is much they can do... So they name it Oceanic and not APAC. So what lol?

 

It's not 100% people from Singapore and Hong Kong getting crap ping. Depending on ISP's, some people are getting good ping. If EA/BW switch servers or what not (which I doubt will happen, can they even do anything about it realistically?), then it's likely the guys getting good ping now will get crap ping. Either way someone will get crap ping, unless we all use the same ISP.

 

Besides according to my Malaysian guildies, quite a few of them are getting better ping on the Aussie servers. So we can't blanket claim that everybody is getting higher latency on the new servers. Apparently there are routes into Australia that will get us good ping, it's just we're not on it =P Btw I'm sure there's a disclaimer on their marketing material somewhere that latency is dependent on many factors and that your mileage will vary. This kinda stuff is SOP. EA/BW would've covered their own asses. =P

 

I'm more worried about the community we had on the unofficial Oceanic servers being torn apart. I know I'm definitely staying on Swiftsure but my guild is likely moving. Guess I'm just going to let my sub run out now.

[Ashraman]

Bioware can fix this.

 

"A.) Just place new servers in Singapore. Other asian countries should have good ping to Singapore."

 

A server in Singapore should greatly improve latency for Singapore residents. It also should provide better latency to Hong Kong residents.

 

The best latency throughout the Asia-Pacific region, however, would probably be achieved by placing the "A-P Server(s)" (as opposed to the re-branded Australia / NZ "Oceanic Servers") in Taiwan. This is primarily due to Taiwan's unique advantage as the central A-P hub as regards regional submarine cable routing, and secondarily due to Taiwan's strong status and capabilities in the IT sector. For this reason, Amazon.com's A-P server is located in Taiwan, and Google's will soon be as well.

 

Taiwan is not yet an official A-P launch country, but if server location in Taiwan gave both Singapore and HK residents better game performance in terms of decreasing network latency, it would make true Bioware's currently false promotional claim that HK and Singapore residents will enjoy improved latency on the "Asia-Pacific Servers".

[twinionx]

Bioware can fix this.

 

"A.) Just place new servers in Singapore. Other asian countries should have good ping to Singapore."

 

A server in Singapore should greatly improve latency for Singapore residents. It also should provide better latency to Hong Kong residents.

 

.

 

Considering that Bioware only officially recognised these two countries/region, Either servers in Singapore or HK makes more sense. They can then add users from other Asian countries later.

 

They cannot put in Taiwan but not recognise players from Taiwan. I think the nerd rage would be heard all the way here...

[Ashraman]

I don't think there is much they can do... So they name it Oceanic and not APAC. So what lol?

 

It's not 100% people from Singapore and Hong Kong getting crap ping. Depending on ISP's, some people are getting good ping. If EA/BW switch servers or what not (which I doubt will happen, can they even do anything about it realistically?), then it's likely the guys getting good ping now will get crap ping. Either way someone will get crap ping, unless we all use the same ISP.

 

Besides according to my Malaysian guildies, quite a few of them are getting better ping on the Aussie servers. So we can't blanket claim that everybody is getting higher latency on the new servers. Apparently there are routes into Australia that will get us good ping, it's just we're not on it =P Btw I'm sure there's a disclaimer on their marketing material somewhere that latency is dependent on many factors and that your mileage will vary. This kinda stuff is SOP. EA/BW would've covered their own asses. =P

 

I'm more worried about the community we had on the unofficial Oceanic servers being torn apart. I know I'm definitely staying on Swiftsure but my guild is likely moving. Guess I'm just going to let my sub run out now.

 

A few things:

 

1. If possible, please provide the details, including name of local ISP and service provided by that ISP, regarding Singapore and/or Hong Kong residents you claim enjoy better latencies on the Australian servers as compared to the US West Coast Servers. This should not be possible in either of those locations (outside of the occasional internet "hiccup"), so I'm curious.

 

2. Unlike Hong Kong and Singapore, Malaysia is not an official A-P launch country. The A-P launch countries are HK, Singapore, NZ and Australia only. Further as regards Malaysia and the Philippines, both are much less developed (especially the Philippines) as compared to Singapore or Hong Kong and lack the internal infrastructure and connectivity to international submarine cable lines that HK and Singapore enjoy. Claims of improved connectivity in Malaysia are irrelevant as it is not an official A-P launch country.

 

3. As regards "covering arses", I bet an MNC like Reebok thought they'd covered all the bases yet they were just slapped last September with a US$25 million dollar fine for what I consider to be pretty innocuous advertising; see my post above.

Edited March 1, 2012 by Ashraman

[Stryges]

A few things:

 

1. If possible, please provide the details, including name of local ISP and service provided by that ISP, regarding Singapore and/or Hong Kong residents you claim enjoy better latencies on the Australian servers as compared to the US West Coast Servers. This should not be possible in either of those locations (outside of the occasional internet "hiccup"), so I'm curious.

 

 

This. I am unlikely to switch from Starhub, but I would curious as to what ISP's are getting these supposed pings.

[Ashraman]

 

Considering that Bioware only officially recognised these two countries/region, Either servers in Singapore or HK makes more sense. They can then add users from other Asian countries later.

 

They cannot put in Taiwan but not recognise players from Taiwan. I think the nerd rage would be heard all the way here...

 

Linsanity, you say?

 

Actually Bioware permitted sales and subscriptions by Taiwan-based players from and before the December launch date; it's a listed country that can be selected when inputting user information. So Taiwan players have been "recognized" from the get-go.

 

You are absolutely correct, however, that Taiwan is not an official "A-P launch country". But that really doesn't mean anything since there is no current advantage offered to residents of the non-Oceanic "official A-P launch" countries. And not many in Taiwan are likely to complain as a matter of principle as English proficiency in Taiwan is much lower than in either HK or Singapore; by and large people here just don't care about SWTOR because there is no localized Chinese version.

 

What matters is not what Taiwan residents would think of an A-P server placed in Taiwan, but rather ensuring the truth of Bioware's promotional claim that both HK and Singapore residents can enjoy better latency on "Asia-Pacific Servers". The additional server location that provides the best latency for both current and future non-Oceanic A-P launch countries is the solution that will make the most people happy. Obviously the ideal situation would be for there to be at least one server in each launch country, but if that's not possible, the best solution is the location that best serves the people in the entire region and ensures better latency for the residents of each nation in that region as compared to preexisting US servers.

Edited March 1, 2012 by Ashraman

[eisra]

268ms from M1. I'd like to know how to get 150ms with M1.

[twinionx]

268ms from M1. I'd like to know how to get 150ms with M1.

 

http://forums.gameaxis.com/showthread.php?t=1618830

 

Apparently, those who got 100ms are from M1 100mbps.

 

Mine is 10Mbps singnet ADSL, about 270ms for AP servers and 200ms for US West.

[xfreidax]

A few things:

 

1. If possible, please provide the details, including name of local ISP and service provided by that ISP, regarding Singapore and/or Hong Kong residents you claim enjoy better latencies on the Australian servers as compared to the US West Coast Servers. This should not be possible in either of those locations (outside of the occasional internet "hiccup"), so I'm curious.

 

M1 users are reporting 120-150ms latency. Singtel and Starhub users are the ones getting crap ping. These are the 3 major ISP's in Singapore. I've not spoken to anyone using Pacific Internet or Superinternet. And since you're curious...

 

I'm a Starhub subscriber (Cable broadband 30mbps line). When trying to connect to servers in Australia via sites like speedtest, depending on which servers I ping, latency ranges from 150-500ms. These are servers located in Sydney and Melbourne. Servers in Perth I get 100-120ms. My current ping to TOR US servers ranges from 200-280ms.

 

And it's a fact some of my Malaysian guildies are getting better ping no matter what you think of their internet lol. Maybe you don't know as much as you think you do.

[Kyrimsun]

 

I highly recommend all Asian players to stay in US West. Who knows? Collectively, we may even have more population than Aus players (albeit spread out in various US Servers, if you have not rolled in JJT, Harbinger or swiftsure)

 

I also urge all North American off-peak, night owls players to play on these three servers as well.

 

 

Yep, I live in Hawaii, and am on Harbringer because I wanted to play with Aussies during their hours like I have always.

 

Still deciding if I'll transfer to oceanic or not when it's available. I'd rather play with people who are on when I am on. But my ping on the new servers is around 250. I still need to play with it though to see if it will urk me. I dabbled with it a little, checking out the responsiveness for PvE. I can't tell a difference. I use an ability, and it executes immediately. Not like I've experienced on WoW. Going from 80ms to 200+ms on WoW, I can feel a noticable difference. I don't yet on SWotR. I don't PvP either, so that's not a bother. I'm only worried about the rare lag. Rare lag for me on a U.S. server puts me at 200ms. So if I'm already at 200ms, laggy times would put me to unplayable.

 

Maybe I'll use a tunneling serve lol. I've checked a few, but they're all mainly for Europe, and U.S. Battleping, Smoothping, there weren't any servers based in Australia, so it wouldn't make a difference. Maybe with SWtoR they'll open some.

[Deathcoffin]

I am a long-time resident of Taiwan with better than average knowledge of typical internet latencies in the Asia-Pacific region due to previous work I did on behalf of telecom operators, including a submarine fiber optic cable company.

 

Bioware / EA has been somewhat dishonest by way of omission in promoting the "Asia-Pacific" launch of SWTOR. Due to the regional cross-border routing of submarine cables (something entirely outside EA's control), my latency in Taiwan will always on average be about 3x's better when connecting to a US West Coast server than to any server in Australia. This should also be true, albeit to a lesser extent, in Hong Kong and Singapore.

 

Bioware knew, or should have known, that latencies experienced by persons residing in Hong Kong and Singapore (official A-P launch locations) will be much worse on the new Australia-based SWTOR servers than on US West Coast servers. Yet in advertising the A-P launch of SWTOR, Bioware not only failed to inform Hong Kong and Singapore residents that latencies would be significantly worse on the new "Asia-Pacific" servers than existing West Coast servers, but actually implied that the new servers were more suitable for all players in the A-P launch areas.

 

Although it's too much to expect that EA or Bioware will ever apologize for this, perhaps someday Hong Kong and / or Singapore-based SWTOR servers will become available.

 

This quote in fact was what i really felt about this whole issue. I actually made a similar post a few pages back along with many others with the same overall thinking about it. The best solution that bioware/EA could do now is to amend their asia pacific launch philosophy to a completely separated launch for both oceanic and asia. Since the oceanic server are already up and running, get another server up for asia too to cater for the asian region.

 

If the whole idea behind the launch is to provide us with a world class gameplay experience and reduced latency, word for word, this should be done or else whatever that was actually intended will never ever be realised.

 

EA/bioware, by now it should be clear that this whole launch is a partial failure at least for Singapore and Hongkong if it is based off your launch philosophy. Just imagine all the people who were sold about the idea of getting all the benefits which you guys have stressed about but to find out that it isnt the case at all only after they have bought the game. Dont even say that for this people who got caught in the weeds actually do have the option to roll in any other servers outside of the asian-pacific ones or crap like latencies are expected, yes but not crazy latencies mind you. It is outright lying to these group of people in the very first place with false advertising. Damage is done so fix it or you will be facing alot of angry. unsatisfied, disappointed customers.

Edited March 1, 2012 by Deathcoffin

[Cempa]

BW put up servers in Dubai.

[Stryges]

 

EA/bioware, by now it should be clear that this whole launch is a partial failure at least for Singapore and Hongkong if it is based off your launch philosophy. Just imagine all the people who were sold about the idea of getting all the benefits which you guys have stressed about but to find out that it isnt the case at all only after they have bought the game. Dont even say that for this people who got caught in the weeds actually do have the option to roll in any other servers outside of the asian-pacific ones or crap like latencies are expected, yes but not crazy latencies mind you. It is outright lying to these group of people in the very first place with false advertising. Damage is done so fix it or you will be facing alot of angry. unsatisfied, disappointed customers.

 

Well-said. I was not counting the AP launch for anything (I resigned myself to high latency when I moved) but I was cautiously optimistic.

 

I guess that will show me.

[Ashraman]

M1 users are reporting 120-150ms latency. Singtel and Starhub users are the ones getting crap ping. These are the 3 major ISP's in Singapore. I've not spoken to anyone using Pacific Internet or Superinternet. And since you're curious...

 

I'm a Starhub subscriber (Cable broadband 30mbps line). When trying to connect to servers in Australia via sites like speedtest, depending on which servers I ping, latency ranges from 150-500ms. These are servers located in Sydney and Melbourne. Servers in Perth I get 100-120ms. My current ping to TOR US servers ranges from 200-280ms.

 

And it's a fact some of my Malaysian guildies are getting better ping no matter what you think of their internet lol. Maybe you don't know as much as you think you do.

 

Thanks for that information. If correct, some Singapore residents have better latencies on at least one of the "Asia-Pacific Servers" than on [some / all] [??] US West Coast Servers.

 

You are still somewhat missing the point, however, as indicated by mentioning players in Malaysia. Malaysia, whilst right around the corner from Singapore, is nonetheless an entirely different country that is not an official "Asia-Pacific launch" location.

 

It doesn't mater what ping persons in Malaysia playing on any SWTOR server report as no representation was made to them as to the latency they would experience.

 

Bioware's advertisement stating that players in each "official Asia-Pacific launch region" will experience better latency on the "Asia-Pacific Servers" must be considered for each jurisdiction individually. Are you able to confirm with details anyone in Hong Kong who has better latency on the Australian servers versus the US West Coast Servers?

 

Singapore is very far--over 2,500 km--to the southwest of Hong Kong, placing it much further away from the US West Coast and closer to Australia than Hong Kong. I'll eat your socks on Youtube if you can prove that people in Hong Kong get consistently better ping to any Austalian SWTOR serve than to any US West Coast server.

Edited March 1, 2012 by Ashraman

[Ashraman]

Still waiting to hear any reliable reports of Hong Kong residents getting better latencies when connecting to servers in Australia than in the US West Coast. I don't think it's possible.

[Kalolo]

From new caledonia here, french island in the south pacific ocean, (next to australia new-zealand), i got a way better latency, from 250 ms (with 1kms spikes) on US servers to 70 ms (with 130 ms spikes) on pacific server.

[mullar]

Would also like some comformation for Hong Kong based connection. Still struggling on the transfer.

 

 

Being in Hong Kong and on West coast server, using Netvigator(ISP)

 

ping around 120 - 150 at 20:00 - 24:00 (GMT+8), doesn't bother me much. If AP server not going to do any better than this, screw this

[Kalliadies]

Australia is connected to the rest of the world by old technology and is why Australians are often screwed with pings and the internet

 

Our internal network is just fine. What this means is that the servers in Australia are awesome for Australians. Anyone else playing external will suffer our usual ping woes

Edited March 2, 2012 by Kalliadies