FurionRaven Posted February 28, 2012 Share Posted February 28, 2012 (edited) I cant understand why in gods name deception assassins pick chian shock over 9% armor pen and +6% dmg to saber skills... here are the 2 builds for pvp. Common spec http://www.torhead.com/skill-calc#200ZhGrRkhrbtzZf0c.1 and my spec http://www.torhead.com/skill-calc#200Mc0cZhGMRkhrbtzZM.1 now why would i forsake the chance to get armor pent to all my abilities + dmg to skills for a second shock that deals -50% dmg... why???? it makes no sense?? yes its a hard hitting ability but forsake +9% armor pen to me its not worth it... someone show me why this is cos it makes no sence to me at all... Edited February 29, 2012 by FurionRaven Spell check police gave me a warning... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jkcheng Posted February 28, 2012 Share Posted February 28, 2012 I cant understand why in gods name deception assassins pick chian shock over 9% armor pen and +6% dmg to saber skills... here are the 2 builds for pvp. Common spec http://www.torhead.com/skill-calc#200ZhGrRkhrbtzZf0c.1 and my spec http://www.torhead.com/skill-calc#200Mc0cZhGMRkhrbtzZM.1 now why would i forsake the chance to get armor pent to all my abilities + dmg to skills for a second shock that deals -50% dmg... why???? it makes no sence?? yes its a hard hitting ability but forsake +9% armor pen to me its not worth it... someone show me why this is cos it makes no sence to me at all... Serioulsy hard to take someone seriously when they can't spell "sense". The bottom line is Deception uses Shock a ton so you want to increase the damage to Shock when you can. This build had some theorycrafting behind it at Sithwarriors.com and was calculated to deal higher dps than the build you have. Personally for PvP and PvE, I'd drop Electric Execution for Lightning Recover. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zanxscarce Posted February 28, 2012 Share Posted February 28, 2012 Gives you mobility. You don't have to stick to your opponent like white on rice when you chain shock. And its part of your rotation anyway /thread Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jkcheng Posted February 28, 2012 Share Posted February 28, 2012 Gives you mobility. You don't have to stick to your opponent like white on rice when you chain shock. And its part of your rotation anyway /thread Actually the OP's build offers more mobility if he switches EE to Lightning Recovery, which a Chain Shock build cannot do. Also OPs build does not dictate he stick to his target like white on rice anymore than a Chain Shock build does. You're not going to Shock w/o doing 2x VS/Thrash first so either way you need to be in melee range. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sankalp Posted February 29, 2012 Share Posted February 29, 2012 chain shock is taken because it is a 22.5% inc in your shock damage straight away. Deception has the hardest hitting shock. Using recklessness makes it crit almost all the time. I do both pvp and raids, and I have to ask the tank to guard me for all boss fights coz I always take aggro during my burst. In PVP, the damage difference with recklessness and without recklessness is massive. Also, the stalker bonus gives u 1 extra reckless charge, That means if your shock does not chain(10% from exp althought tool tip is much less) then you can get another VS VS shock off. I personally didnt take the 9% armor pen as I am no sure its for all attacks. dont trust tooltips atm, i believe its 9% armor reduction when surging charge deals damage only. So imo, not worth it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FurionRaven Posted February 29, 2012 Author Share Posted February 29, 2012 (edited) chain shock is taken because it is a 22.5% inc in your shock damage straight away. Deception has the hardest hitting shock. Using recklessness makes it crit almost all the time. I do both pvp and raids, and I have to ask the tank to guard me for all boss fights coz I always take aggro during my burst. In PVP, the damage difference with recklessness and without recklessness is massive. Also, the stalker bonus gives u 1 extra reckless charge, That means if your shock does not chain(10% from exp althought tool tip is much less) then you can get another VS VS shock off. I personally didnt take the 9% armor pen as I am no sure its for all attacks. dont trust tooltips atm, i believe its 9% armor reduction when surging charge deals damage only. So imo, not worth it. ok i see what your saying, its a matter of seeing if facts are facts and no one but Bioware can tell us at this point and because some of us played other MMO with the similar setup and we cant tell the status with armor pen falling to just melee hits and SPELL effects, Because if that is true armor pen does not affect shocks and force abilites.... which is a shame and the -9% armor pen is uselss... i was thinking it gives you a FALT armor penetration long as you have surging charge active so its in effect to the player and affect anything its hits with -9% armor to any target, but i could be wrong as the tooltips dont give us more details on its effects. But reason i said its not worth it becuase if u get 2 VS-VS-Shock rotation off- thats -9% armor pen+6% to VS+9% to surge charge dmg in your favor vs u getting off a pair of shock thats deals -50%dmg to the shock before it. so you see why am confused on it. If the armor pen does not affect force shock then yes chain shock carries its weight. But coming from a guy who played a rogue for so damn long i never turn down Armor Penetration but armor pen does not affect spells in WoW i hope thats not the case here cos we use force abilites so much and depend on it.... Edited February 29, 2012 by FurionRaven Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sankalp Posted February 29, 2012 Share Posted February 29, 2012 well my build has 6% VS damage bonus + chain shock. 2/31/8. so i only miss out on the 9% armor reduction, which i think is a fair result. http://www.torhead.com/skill-calc#200MZhGMRkGMbtzZf0c.1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cainhawk Posted February 29, 2012 Share Posted February 29, 2012 It also wouldn't be 9% extra dmg to your attacks it would be -9% of the dmg mitigated by that targets armor (not much on low armor targets), you really can't say without a way to test it which is better but force attacks not being effected by armor, an extra chain shocks dmg vs a small amount of dmg increase per attack would likely not be a huge difference especially in pvp where you might be fighting a low armor target one min and a higher armor target the next. I would assume ops bosses would have high armor where %9 of their mitigation from armor might give you more of an advantage exp when using relics and adrenals since you wont be relying on procs for the extra dmg. Also no auto attacks would play a part in armor pens importance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sankalp Posted February 29, 2012 Share Posted February 29, 2012 also remember, the extra shock is not on GCD, its part of you shock GCD so helps burst. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cubertt Posted February 29, 2012 Share Posted February 29, 2012 i use both specs, and the 0/33/8 one is great bc it ****s healers up. you want to surprise that mofo as much as you can so if you can do 9k in one GCD( im shadow not assasin) instead of 7k thats a big deal if you have another DPSer with u. it can mean the diffrence between an auto kill or the healer using his DEF CD and CCs and gettin outa there. that being said the other spec does better overall damage so when theirs not a healer around ( almost never) it is most certainly superior. overall they are too close for me to make a call atm which ones better 0/33/8 or 7/31/3. which are the 2 that i have settled on to be the best imo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FurionRaven Posted February 29, 2012 Author Share Posted February 29, 2012 It also wouldn't be 9% extra dmg to your attacks it would be -9% of the dmg mitigated by that targets armor (not much on low armor targets), you really can't say without a way to test it which is better but force attacks not being effected by armor, an extra chain shocks dmg vs a small amount of dmg increase per attack would likely not be a huge difference especially in pvp where you might be fighting a low armor target one min and a higher armor target the next. I would assume ops bosses would have high armor where %9 of their mitigation from armor might give you more of an advantage exp when using relics and adrenals since you wont be relying on procs for the extra dmg. Also no auto attacks would play a part in armor pens importance. I see your point and if its true then 0/33/8 have a better gain in pvp to kill someone and get back in the shadows in 1 swift stroke but i wish i could do some solid test with numbers.... Depend on the target the armor mitigated vary but my dmg is spread into more than just one ability with a high rate proc. But your right it gives better all around dmg while chain shock gives heavy burst... for pvp swift kills. thx for all the feed back people it really help me out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FurionRaven Posted February 29, 2012 Author Share Posted February 29, 2012 i use both specs, and the 0/33/8 one is great bc it ****s healers up. you want to surprise that mofo as much as you can so if you can do 9k in one GCD( im shadow not assasin) instead of 7k thats a big deal if you have another DPSer with u. it can mean the diffrence between an auto kill or the healer using his DEF CD and CCs and gettin outa there. that being said the other spec does better overall damage so when theirs not a healer around ( almost never) it is most certainly superior. overall they are too close for me to make a call atm which ones better 0/33/8 or 7/31/3. which are the 2 that i have settled on to be the best imo. I agree 100% and i cant make up my mind eather.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darthmugin Posted February 29, 2012 Share Posted February 29, 2012 Serioulsy hard to take someone seriously when they can't spell "sense". The bottom line is Deception uses Shock a ton so you want to increase the damage to Shock when you can. This build had some theorycrafting behind it at Sithwarriors.com and was calculated to deal higher dps than the build you have. Personally for PvP and PvE, I'd drop Electric Execution for Lightning Recover. Oh the irony... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sirranter Posted March 1, 2012 Share Posted March 1, 2012 Personally i like chain shock better as a 2/31/8. The idea the OP has is going against higher armor targets, but the idea of chain shock is giving him the capability of what he's looking for, bypassing armor. Since armor doesn't mitigate elemental damage, it is in my opinion the better choice to go with chain shock, since you're just avoiding the armor mitigation all together. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Delillo Posted March 1, 2012 Share Posted March 1, 2012 This is just a playstyle choice issue: 7/31/3 for more mobility vs. 2/31/8 for more punch I chose option A - I feel like I can be in the right place more often- using Force Speed more liberally. Also the cooldown on force shroud means I can use it both in combo with force cloak and again in mid fight and know it will still be ready to use in combo with the next force cloak. Force cloak + force shroud + force speed is such a great get out of jail free card and 7/31/3 makes use of this combination most often. That, for me, is better than a 17.3% increase in shock. The 9% armor penetration also helps make up this gap. (not losing a charge of recklessness to the ghetto shock is a small consideration.) Shock is reduced by armor so the armor penetration of charge mastery increases damage with everything but discharge. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sankalp Posted March 1, 2012 Share Posted March 1, 2012 this is just a playstyle choice issue: 7/31/3 for more mobility vs. 2/31/8 for more punch i chose option a - i feel like i can be in the right place more often- using force speed more liberally. Also the cooldown on force shroud means i can use it both in combo with force cloak and again in mid fight and know it will still be ready to use in combo with the next force cloak. Force cloak + force shroud + force speed is such a great get out of jail free card and 7/31/3 makes use of this combination most often. That, for me, is better than a 17.3% increase in shock. The 9% armor penetration also helps make up this gap. (not losing a charge of recklessness to the ghetto shock is a small consideration.) shock is reduced by armor so the armor penetration of charge mastery increases damage with everything but discharge. 22.5% Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Astarica Posted March 1, 2012 Share Posted March 1, 2012 17.3% increase is assuming you never Shock without two stacks of Voltiac Slash, which is fairly reasonable since if you don't use Voltiac Slash why even go 31 deep in Deception? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Delillo Posted March 1, 2012 Share Posted March 1, 2012 Actually the 17.3% is assuming you always hit shock with 2 procs from voltaic slash. 22.5% would be the unmodified increase. Normal shock = 100% +2 VS +30% The extra shock from chain shock procs 45% of the time for 50% damage or 22.5% of base. 22.5 / 130 = 17.3% increase over a non-chain shocked shock. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Latrodectus Posted March 2, 2012 Share Posted March 2, 2012 It's important to remember that the secondary chain shock does not get the 30% damage increase from voltaic slash. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
warstory Posted March 2, 2012 Share Posted March 2, 2012 I have 6% armor penetration and 15 % chain shock I noticed a DMG increase but I very much like see my Melee attacks do more DMG. I had 9 % penetration and 9 % increase DMG to surge. Armor penetration is a must I think even if it's a small amount. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kkwZero Posted March 2, 2012 Share Posted March 2, 2012 well my build has 6% VS damage bonus + chain shock. 2/31/8. an this is exactly the way to go as deception. if you want to kill stuff spec 2/31/8. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Delillo Posted March 2, 2012 Share Posted March 2, 2012 It's important to remember that the secondary chain shock does not get the 30% damage increase from voltaic slash. Exactly. And when it does proc (45% of the time) it does only 38.4% of the damage that our "normal" 130% shock does. I'm not saying chain shock is a bad choice for a 31 deception. What I would say is that it is not nearly as good a choice as it is for a darkness spec, which 15% bonus applies to the bonus proc and also has a gauranteed crit mechanic which means that exploitive strikes is more reliably up. The synergy between chain shock, exploitative strikes, electrify, and energize is insane. The 10 point options for deception are more balanced (chain shock vs. lightning recovery essentially) but not as strong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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