The thought that WoW has more endgame content

[Nasirin]

I feel like I just read an article about evolution written by a creationist.

 

^

 

Speaking of things to do at end game, I came here to play on a Roleplay server, since that was what I did in WoW, and found...none. There is almost none! It makes me sad because I left a great guild of friends and a great story arc to RP here for a while. Now, it is still early in it's realease, and I'm hoping it has to do with the pop. levels of level 50s. I don't know, and since there is no LFG for Flashpoints I find myself logging off and logging back in to see if anyone in my guild is on. Being level 50 is really, to me, the end of the game. The Story was fun, but after...it just needs something.

[Azzras]

http://www.gamespot.com/news/star-wars-the-old-republic-cost-200-million-to-develop-6348959

 

They even mention your analysts estimate in the article.

 

Ok, i concede to that.

 

It sill doesn't say it was the most expensive.

[Phenyr]

Eh, opinion. I personally like wow stories better because they tied the lore together. Questing in zones matched the dungeons in those zones and stories continued in the world through several zones and levels.

 

SWTOR stories are all personal stories that have nothing to do with the lore of the game around you. I spent hours looking up lore facts on WoW online. History of the Night Elves, Thralls rise to power, Alterac History. WoW lore was fantastic and epic.

 

WoW story > SWTOR story

 

SWTOR delivery of story > WoW delivery of story (except flashpoints, the stories there are so isolated and singular they are not worthy of the rest of the game, couldn't they tie into the quests we did on planets alittle???)

 

Pretty much this. I was expecting something closer to Kotor franchise and beside Revan in a few bits and pieces there is nothing more. I remember the days in WoW Vanilla exploring the places where the story from WarCraft 3 and previous ones took place, Felwood where Illidan mets Arthas, Lordaeron the capital city bring to ruins by Archimonde, like you said Alterac and all the palces where the Burning legion did rampage in their second attempt to conquer Azeroth.

 

Even if is 300 years laters from the events of Kotor both 1&2 on a galactic scale time-line is a drop in the ocean, planets that been burned down by the mandalorians, remnants of the both wars that took place there is nothing out there. Is like such events never took place. I would love to see Dxun, what ever its left from Malacor V, Telos or any other places from both games.

 

The only place that had the 'WoW' effect for me, by WoW not the game, was Taris since it was part of the Kotor 1 story.

 

Even if most of the WoW story/lore is just a big wall of text is way much better in WoW because you just find it with in the game. In ToR there isnt so much to wonder, pity because there was so much to put in.

[Muskaan]

SWTOR delivery of story > WoW delivery of story

 

That depends on the story. For random quests, yes.

 

But, recall the entire DK starting area leading upto the fight at Light Hope Chapel -- it did feel extremely epic to part of the fight.

 

Also, the entire Wrathgate chain; then the phasing in Icecrown where questing seemed to make a difference to the actual environment.

 

With phasing they actually made quests impact the zones-- I found that amazing. I like to be part of the story and play out the story instead of lying back and watching cutscenes.

[Icebaron]

Ok, i concede to that.

 

It sill doesn't say it was the most expensive.

 

Well, I got that from the guy saying it cost 300mil to make. So maybe it was at 300million but not at 200million

 

They generally don't tell you how much money it costs to make a game. But GW2 is estimated to only cost about 75 million.

 

WoW was originally like 30 or 40 million.

 

Again, nobody is out and saying how much it cost to make their games, they are all just analysts estimates.

[ckoneful]

Thought #2 TOR raids are too easy vs. WoW

 

False and LOL @ Cataclysm and Wrath. WoW raids haven't been difficult since BC and the 2nd and 3rd tiers of the past 2 expansions, even on HM, difficulty has been laughable. The first tier in Cataclysm was easy before everyone complained of its difficulty and subsequently got nerfed. Although the difficulty in TOR isn't very high WoW is not any more difficult.

 

Heroic Ragnaros, last tier, was considered the hardest boss fight ever made... When was the last time you actually did hard modes in WoW? I will admit DS is laughable, but the rest of the expansion was not.

[Icebaron]

That depends on the story. For random quests, yes.

 

But, recall the entire DK starting area leading upto the fight at Light Hope Chapel -- it did feel extremely epic to part of the fight.

 

Also, the entire Wrathgate chain; then the phasing in Icecrown where questing seemed to make a difference to the actual environment.

 

With phasing they actually made quests impact the zones-- I found that amazing. I like to be part of the story and play out the story instead of lying back and watching cutscenes.

 

Yes, I was referring to Vanilla WoW. Starting in Icecrown, WoW started delivering fantastic stories in ways I actually prefer over the SWTOR vo dialog. Deathknight starting zone is an excellent example.

Wrathgate was and is still the best quest done in any mmo ever. Walking through Orgrimmar filled with refugees and fleeing forsaken just floored me. Telling Saurfang his son was dead touched me on an emotional level SWTOR has not been able to match.

 

Hell, most of Cata was absolutely awesome the first time through, even the underwater zone which I thought I would hate. Lore everywhere, world effected everywhere, and it all tied together neatly.

 

Yea, WoW even beat SWTOR in the story department. All SWTOR has is the full VO, which is just sort of a gimmick.

[BlackZoback]

Well, I got that from the guy saying it cost 300mil to make. So maybe it was at 300million but not at 200million

 

They generally don't tell you how much money it costs to make a game. But GW2 is estimated to only cost about 75 million.

 

WoW was originally like 30 or 40 million.

 

Again, nobody is out and saying how much it cost to make their games, they are all just analysts estimates.

 

WoW cost around 67million to make ten years ago.

 

And your GW2 numbers might as well be the 80million guess they had going on this game, my guess its at or close to million by now. The reason for the 75 million estimate is that is how much it would need to be for it to be considered profitable with at least 2million copy's sold.

[Raeln]

They got the engine at a deal, got to make the game faster than a normal triple A title, and spent more money than any game ever made.

 

Why would any investors invest that much money into an idea (full VO dialog) when it is cheaper to make one without it for the same return investment?

 

Now, if SWTOR kinda exploded on the mmo market then I might be more inclined to think they would try to find a way, but as it's going right now there is no way in hades anyone is going to sink that much money into a game for full VO ever again.

 

My prediction, SWTOR will influence future mmo's to the point where they try to find new and creative ways to deliver the story, but they won't go into full VO for every quest and every NPC like SWTOR did.

 

It's your opinion.

 

I disagree. I think the VO's have been a success. A lot of games are moving to VO's. Single player games don't have the earning potential of an MMO and even they are moving to full VO.

[BlackZoback]

Yes, I was referring to Vanilla WoW. Starting in Icecrown, WoW started delivering fantastic stories in ways I actually prefer over the SWTOR vo dialog. Deathknight starting zone is an excellent example.

Wrathgate was and is still the best quest done in any mmo ever. Walking through Orgrimmar filled with refugees and fleeing forsaken just floored me. Telling Saurfang his son was dead touched me on an emotional level SWTOR has not been able to match.

 

Hell, most of Cata was absolutely awesome the first time through, even the underwater zone which I thought I would hate. Lore everywhere, world effected everywhere, and it all tied together neatly.

 

Yea, WoW even beat SWTOR in the story department. All SWTOR has is the full VO, which is just sort of a gimmick.

 

Good thing all of those are you opinions, because as a 6 year vet of that game my experiences where the exact opposite.

[Raeln]

Eh, opinion. I personally like wow stories better because they tied the lore together. Questing in zones matched the dungeons in those zones and stories continued in the world through several zones and levels.

 

SWTOR stories are all personal stories that have nothing to do with the lore of the game around you. I spent hours looking up lore facts on WoW online. History of the Night Elves, Thralls rise to power, Alterac History. WoW lore was fantastic and epic.

 

WoW story > SWTOR story

 

SWTOR delivery of story > WoW delivery of story (except flashpoints, the stories there are so isolated and singular they are not worthy of the rest of the game, couldn't they tie into the quests we did on planets alittle???)

 

With your overall opinion of WoW and SWTOR, why are you still posting on TOR's forums instead of playing WoW?

[Raeln]

Yes it is.

 

Some players prefer to have the story demonstrated to them through action. Not everyone wants to sit back and watch digital actors read it to them.

 

Blizzard is in category A. If you played through Lich King or Cataclysm, they were telling incredible stories while you were participating in the action... the Lich King chasing you down, trying to escape with Jania proud cure in Icecrown 5 man? The Thrall quest line in Cata? Totally epic storytelling (with voiceover) but WHILE the action is occurring. And then there are sparse epic cut scenes, ilke the fight between Alexstraza and Deathwing... amazing.

 

BioWare is in category B. The action pauses while actors stop and read you a script. You then make a choice, and move on your way. There's really noting exciting about it at all, you don't feel like you're in an action sequence... it feels like you're watching a soap opera quite frankly.

 

Make no mistake, both games have story, but the presentation is everything as you say. I understand that some people prefer digital actors. But not everyone.

 

I disagree. Most of the story in WoW, even after the Cata revamp is not you dealing with a large overarching story. It is you, the character, dealing with all sorts of local problems to the zone. Once at max level, then all of a sudden you are like the hero of the Horde/Alliance, even though the majority of all the NPCs still refer to you has "Grunt", "Private", "idiot" or whatever.

[Icebaron]

It's your opinion.

 

I disagree. I think the VO's have been a success. A lot of games are moving to VO's. Single player games don't have the earning potential of an MMO and even they are moving to full VO.

 

I didn't say it wouldn't influence future games, just that unless this game is a complete blowout (success), no games will be going full VO because it costs too much compared to the revenue generated.

[Icebaron]

Good thing all of those are you opinions, because as a 6 year vet of that game my experiences where the exact opposite.

 

six year vet of WoW?

 

something kept you interested for six years and you trash it?

[Icebaron]

With your overall opinion of WoW and SWTOR, why are you still posting on TOR's forums instead of playing WoW?

 

Because I have no active sub to WoW but I do to SWTOR. And there is the off chance that enough people would agree with my opinions that Bioware takes notices and starts nudging the game in the direction I would like it to go.

 

I posted on WoW forums for six years myself, you wont see me here for six years (not likely anyways).

[Touchbass]

six year vet of WoW?

 

something kept you interested for six years and you trash it?

 

I know this is hilarious.

[Icebaron]

I disagree. Most of the story in WoW, even after the Cata revamp is not you dealing with a large overarching story. It is you, the character, dealing with all sorts of local problems to the zone. Once at max level, then all of a sudden you are like the hero of the Horde/Alliance, even though the majority of all the NPCs still refer to you has "Grunt", "Private", "idiot" or whatever.

 

I don't remember it playing out that way. I usually felt like I single handedly saved the Horde at the end of each zone for my actions in each zone.

 

To be fair, Balmorra on Empire kinda felt like that. But I was mad because I had saved the Empire and crushed the rebellion when I hated the Empire and wanted the Rebellion to succeed.

[Dhishun]

SERIOUSLY.. you guys are still worried about WoW.. Im suprised this thread hasnt been shut down. I can't believe so many Trolls are bothered by WoW comments. 2 months into a 5-10 year game. Come on, If it can't keep you busy now, whats a few update FlashPoints going to do for you. Take a break or start a new Toon like a normal person.

[Touchbass]

When WoW first launched it had over 2 years of log on every day material, 3 hours of content to do whether it was raids/leveling up/farming mats/helping guildies get geared/pvp etc. There was no need for dailies or battlegrounds in beginning, the game kept you hooked on it's own merits.

 

Then Blizzard realized the only way to increase its playerbase was to make the game more casual friendly (which helped me as I am one). So flash forward to Catacylsm where this is 10 times more content then Vanilla but there is no 'sticky' factor that keeps players on the hamster wheel like Vanilla had. SWTOR ship jumpers see that as proof of WoW faltering but don't realize the same crisis in the WoW model is taking havoc on SWTOR. It's been over a month why haven't they announced 2 million active subs? Cause this model doesn't work anymore.

Edited March 2, 2012 by Touchbass

[Icebaron]

This thread has seriously been derailed, but I didn't do it.

 

Did I? If so, sorry.

[Vlaxitov]

This

 

i love how people love to say wow had more content, when in reality they are confusing "tedium" with "more content"

 

having to farm mobs endlessly in sliithius (*******st zone in any game ever , i swear i had nightmares about the place) to build nature resist gear for ONE encounter while newtering your stats was just that, tedium to the extreme not to be confused with "extra content" , once you got everyone you needed in NR gear , the fight was stupidly easy and as boring and bland as the rest of that godforsaken raid

 

i too prefer Tors model, i can enjoy the game rather than having to learn advanced math to complete a one time a week raid

 

As a tank during that time, NR gear was much easier to farm than FR gear.

 

You might call it "tedium," I call it a reason to play and adding value to what you do in games like these. I wouldn't have played D2 for near as long as I did without all that "tedium" adding in game value to my efforts. The alternative would be make the encounters hard enough that it means something to have the gear coming from those encounters. I would be behind that kind of model but I'm afraid I would be part of a minority who is.

 

Without "tedium" or actual challenge, you're left with facebook with an avatar disguised as a mmo.

[Dayfax]

Wrathgate was and is still the best quest done in any mmo ever. Walking through Orgrimmar filled with refugees and fleeing forsaken just floored me. Telling Saurfang his son was dead touched me on an emotional level SWTOR has not been able to match.

 

QFT, or at least my opinion.

 

I have a lot of disdain or the lore based stuff in WoW, but Wrathgate was just amazing. Completely blew me away, and IMO easily worth the price of the entire game. (The quests in Icecrown were also extremely well done. Good stories, lots of variety in the gameplay.)

 

I honestly have not yet come across anything at that level in *any* game, much less MMO.

[Touchbass]

As a tank during that time, NR gear was much easier to farm than FR gear.

 

You might call it "tedium," I call it a reason to play and adding value to what you do in games like these. I wouldn't have played D2 for near as long as I did without all that "tedium" adding in game value to my efforts. The alternative would be make the encounters hard enough that it means something to have the gear coming from those encounters. I would be behind that kind of model but I'm afraid I would be part of a minority who is.

 

Without "tedium" or actual challenge, you're left with facebook with an avatar disguised as a mmo.

 

I sort of agree with but sorta don't. When I had free time and my schedule wasn't crazy I loved the extra in depth nature we could get into when prepping for raids with farming that kind of stuff. It really established a lot of social bounds for me. Only problem was when things changed in my life i was completely absent from the content.

[Vlaxitov]

I sort of agree with but sorta don't. When I had free time and my schedule wasn't crazy I loved the extra in depth nature we could get into when prepping for raids with farming that kind of stuff. It really established a lot of social bounds for me. Only problem was when things changed in my life i was completely absent from the content.

 

If it isn't one of the two, an enjoyable in depth time sink, or really difficult yet enjoyable, then how long would any game really hold your interest? If you're asking for a monthly fee, prepare to provide one of the two or prepare to fail imho.

[Icebaron]

One good thing about those gear checks from the old raids in WoW, they united a guild behind a single purpose. Even Molten Core, everyone farmed mats for their tank.

 

The bad side of it, sooooo tank dependant. The tank was basically the guy you simply HAD to keep happy, cause if he left, the entire guild started over.