WOW really made me appreciate SWTOR

[DarthKhaos]

Your point doesn't stand at all. The achievements tab in WoW operates as a list of suggestions of things to do at max level.

 

Want crazy grinds? There's The Insane. PvP? Battlemaster. Crafting? Chef and Salty. Want to explore every single inch of the world map? The Explorer. There's even achievements for collecting recipes and non-combat pets.

 

Already ran every heroic and raid until you're blue in the face? Go for the Hero and Glory achievements with your group, which require very specific changes to play style during boss fights to make them more difficult.

 

All of these come with specific perks, from titles to mounts, tabards and exclusive in game items.

 

None of them are easy to get, because they require serious time commitments from the player, the full participation of a group, or both.

 

The point is, Blizzard's system adds incentives to doing things in game you've already done, adds new wrinkles and complexity to old content, and encourages you to do things you might not have done on your own.

 

So aside from being an in game guide at max level, the achievement system adds an enormous amount of replay value during endgame.

 

There is nothing at all similar in SWTOR. For reasons that should be absurdly obvious, Codex entries and Datacrons don't even come close.

But that's not separate content. It's the same content with or without the achievements.

 

 

Actually some ppl is playin just to accumulate achievement. You can call'em dumb or silly but in some cases is really funny tryin to get somethin.

Sometimes achievements are more fun than guesting: f.e. the turkey achievement or School of hard knocks or others.

Actually i unsub Wow cuz im bored of it, and im continuin to play TOR instead, but for me is fun cuz is a new game SW branded... But isnt innovative at all... using mortar and granade with groups and blast against silver enemies 1000 times is a little repetetive...

Just a last note: there's no ironic content in this game (i think for precise statement of the SW brand).. But hell! Is a game... i love makin a smile or a laugh sometimes.. While was performin the singing flowers quest in Wow or when was dress'd with a murloc costume i had a good laugh.

I never called it dumb. I just don't count achievements as end game content because it's the same content just with a "Hey try this." Codex may not be as extensive but it is similar.

 

My point still stands. Not a whole lot more end game content in WoW.

[Aepervius]

Several years ago, I got a test account for WoW. And I had a very similar experience to the OP. The first quests had no real story and I missed any voice overs.

It turned me off and I decided to not bother anymore.

I've heard that the latest addons revamped the starting regions, but apparantly not fundamentally so, as the OP seems to describe what I saw then.

 

Endgame is nice and all, but if you don't even subscribe long enough to get there, it's useless and irrelevant.

 

I believe other MMO developers agree with this view - that's why most new MMOs lack in endgame. People first have to be convinced to get to the endgame. If you can't manage that, you can have the best endgame ever developed in MMO gaming, your customers won't see it, as they jump off before the get there.

 

Obviously, what turns you off from a game before endgame can differ a lot between players. WoW obviously works for a lot of people, but that to me suggests not just that the endgame is great, but also that these people enjoy the levelling experience. Whatever they did right, it didn't work for me.

 

For all the talk about endgame, only a minority is actually raiding in every MMO.

 

IIRC the WOW stats, is that less than half of the subber had raided a tier before the next tier came in.

 

And then there are the people (like me) which positively and utterly hate raiding grind.

 

SWTOR with its very nice question 1-50 is the best MMO i played. Still there are some progress it needs to be doing before I re-sub. I'll be back in 6 month to 1 year.

 

But SWTOR IMHO is way ahead of WOW and WOW clones, for those not considering raid.

[Gradivus]

Your choices result in slightly different dialogue responses from the NPCs, and some quests will have different conclusions, but these differences are extremely minor.

 

This is similar to the DA:O model, which also gave you the illusion of choice: No matter what you do, you still end up fighting a gigantic dragon at the end.

 

In SWTOR, choices don't have any real impact beyond the next 5 minutes. The actions you take on Corcuscant, for example, have zero bearing as to what happens on Tatooine.

 

I played an agent and persons who I crossed but didn't kill (had the option to) found me 20 levels later and tried to kill me. I'd call that "real impact".

[DarthKhaos]

That's very true, though it's still more of a difference than you get in other MMOs, where your character's personal development (from an RP/personality standpoint) is entirely imagined, whereas you can actually somewhat act upon it in-game in SWTOR, even though it doesn't cause any groundbreaking changes. It would be exceptional if it did, but it's just not within reason from a game development standpoint.

 

The changes are all very minor, but I appreciate that they exist, and they make the world feel ever so slightly more "real." It's certainly small, but I do enjoy how NPCs respond to me differently based upon race or sex. For example, my Sith pureblood is generally respected by any Imperial NPC I speak to, but a number of them will refer to my Chiss as a "filthy alien" or something of the sort. Or a situation where an NPC told my character "You're everything a woman should be. I wish I'd met you when I was still a man." (Sounds really strange out of context, I know, but he was referring to his dignity, not his actual physical gender.) That's something that clearly wouldn't have been said if I were playing a male character. It is a very minor and inconsequential detail, but it does help me feel more immersed in the world via my character.

 

I like that I'm supposedly an important individual in a sense of the SWTOR story. The plot covers the "important" half of that and those minor changes in dialogue based on class/sex/race really go a long way to cover the "individual" part of it. In some other MMOs that I've played, it seems like the storyline is more akin to: "Amazing event occurred. Oh yeah, and Character was there too. (S)he's important, by the way." The SWTOR storylines actually make you feel like a central player, and less of a generic stand-in. Ultimately you're a stand-in either way, because there are hundreds of other Jedi Knights/Sith Warriors/whatever who went through the same exact thing, but perception is a powerful thing. The storyline at least gives you reason enough to perceive your character as truly being "the main character."

 

 

Equally fair. I can see where you're coming from. That's how I've played every other MMO I've ever gotten into. And in WoW, at least there were one or two leveling area alternatives for a particular range (or PVP/dungeons if that's what you preferred). I wish there were an easy way to do that in SWTOR and still maintain the same cohesive storyline, because it does end up being incredibly linear as it stands. The idea of character progression (in terms of gear/"raiding" content) is part of what makes an MMO addictive, and I can see why you'd find SWTOR lacking in that department compared to other alternatives.

A lot of people keep looking for the big things yet it's the little things like this that gives it a better feel. I'm a person that loves the small details and SW:TOR got it when it comes to my character conversations.

 

I love the fact that I'm the hero and not a peon. I matter, my team matter, everyone who took part in this warzone matter. Granted we've taken this schematic for the voidstar 100 times and they're yet to build one themselves I feel like my actions in securing it matter. I would take that over the generic any day.

 

People go through games and mmos in general with the same mentality. They really don't realize that each game is different and should be played differently. I think that's what is happening with them here.

[Dayfax]

That's very true, though it's still more of a difference than you get in other MMOs, where your character's personal development (from an RP/personality standpoint) is entirely imagined, whereas you can actually somewhat act upon it in-game in SWTOR, even though it doesn't cause any groundbreaking changes. It would be exceptional if it did, but it's just not within reason from a game development standpoint.

 

The changes are all very minor, but I appreciate that they exist, and they make the world feel ever so slightly more "real." It's certainly small, but I do enjoy how NPCs respond to me differently based upon race or sex. For example, my Sith pureblood is generally respected by any Imperial NPC I speak to, but a number of them will refer to my Chiss as a "filthy alien" or something of the sort. Or a situation where an NPC told my character "You're everything a woman should be. I wish I'd met you when I was still a man." (Sounds really strange out of context, I know, but he was referring to his dignity, not his actual physical gender.) That's something that clearly wouldn't have been said if I were playing a male character. It is a very minor and inconsequential detail, but it does help me feel more immersed in the world via my character.

 

I agree. It's far and away more involved than most MMOs, but then let's face it -- that's an extremely low bar.

 

That kind of race/gender acknowledgement is a carry over from their single player RPGs. If you rolled an elf or dwarf in DA:O, every NPC would seem to take pains to not only point it out, but throw in a racist comment for good measure.

 

On one hand, yeah it's cool that it's in there. On the other, part of me feels like its an entirely cheap and superficial way to get to a passable level of "interactivity."

Edited February 29, 2012 by Dayfax

[Dayfax]

I played an agent and persons who I crossed but didn't kill (had the option to) found me 20 levels later and tried to kill me. I'd call that "real impact".

 

That's a good example. They did something similar in KOTOR and that sort of thing always catches me off guard.

 

But it isn't fundamentally different from what I'm talking about. Your quest had a slightly different conclusion based on a single choice.

 

You didn't actually alter your character or the through line to your own class story at all.

 

Bioware gets points for changing up the timing of those results, and I've always thought they were brilliant at hiding just how on-rails and linear their games are (KOTOR, DA:O). SWTOR isn't any different.

[chaosdefined]

Playing on my Sith alt, I had to go 'talk' to someone as a quest. I knew where this was going, it was always the same.

 

Dialogue scene. I walk in, he talks tough and commands his bodyguards to kill me. Here we go I thought. Nope, the bodyguards refused to attack me from fear, I told them to run and they did.

Then I shocked him and he surrendered. Nice little twist.

 

I know that my choices don't make huge impacts to how the story plays out, but it still makes a slight difference and that's what matters to me. It makes me feel like I'm having a more unique experience. I feel like I actually have a character who has a personality as opposed to WoW where I look and do the exact same lore decisions as everyone else my race.

 

I still love WoW, and I love SWTOR. Both have gaping flaws in them but I'll continue to play both for their advantages.

[Cmder-Shepard]

I played wow for 4 years after playing this game I couldn't go back from the dull game to the horrid community wow just has become a horrid game.

 

I'll stay on SWTOR now I am happy here.

[oursacrifice]

You sir, are extremely incorrect. < 2% of the population has gotten the best gear in WoW because of hard-core guilds that only recruit people that live and breathe WoW and devote 3+ nights per week spending 4+ hours every night in attempt after attempt on one single boss. Mind-numbing and frustrating is not what I call a great game, dude. Take your hard-core makes right attitude back to WoW, since it is SOOOOOO great for you and your lifestyle.

 

That's where you're wrong. You don't have to be on the bleeding edge of progression to down heroic bosses in raids. I did it, and I wasn't even in a server first guild.

 

No, Wow is not more than an investment of time. It's not a measure of personal skill at all; it is a measure of hardcore persistence and nothing more. Sure, you make 800 attempts on one boss hoping each time that some newb doesn't screw it up until your eyes bleed - yeah you are going to down it eventually.

 

Again, you're wrong. You clearly never raided hardmode content, otherwise you'd realize that it's far more than just a time sink. It is a measure of class knowledge, skill at the game, situational awareness and the ability to adapt to the changes in fight mechanics from previous difficulty levels.

 

I have been playing WoW since it was a newborn baby and I will tell you that WoW has very little on SWTOR. Spending 7 years building a game and sure it will be more polished. WoW raiding totally sucks and and is NOT a selling point for a large portion of the WoW population. It is a selling point for YOU, sure. Then, go enjoy it and quit trying to convince everyone that WoW raiding is some perfectly created MMO dream come true.

 

If by very little you mean:

 

Bigger community, better MMO features (LFD, LFR, cross server tools, rated pvp, functional world pvp battles (Tol Barad is a million times better than Ilum ever will be), etc... then yeah, it has very little.

 

If you mean better class balance (Bioware can't even balance the mirror classes), more responsive combat, user mods, higher customization of your character, more leveling zones, less tedious running from A to B, better mounts, more interesting races that are actually DIFFERENT and a more interactive world, then yeah it has very little.

 

Raiding is a huge selling point for WoW now, especially after the raid finder was introduced in the Dragon Soul patch. Blizzard posted an impressive chart a few months back showing the HUGE volume of the playerbase that was able to raid Dragon Soul thanks to the raid finder (and actually clear it).

 

So yeah, WoW has pretty much everything on SWTOR except for voice acting (whoopity doo).

[Navarium]

The levelling up experience in SWTOR is so much more streamlined and enjoyable than WoW's. Voice acting really does make all the difference!

[AJediKnight]

Funny its the other way around for me.

 

Yup.

 

This.

 

I'll be resubbing to WoW on the 20th. Yay for Pandas. Boy, I wish you didn't suck at game design, Biofail.

[Fezzhan]

The levelling up experience in SWTOR is so much more streamlined and enjoyable than WoW's. Voice acting really does make all the difference!

 

yeah but after 30 lvls the spacebar is become my best friend

[Paxmendacium]

The thing is, what will keep gamers from cancelling their subscription is how good the endgame is. And while SWToR's 1-50 gameplay me be better than WoW's, once you hit 50 you are pretty much done. Raids are easy, getting full battlemaster is easy, and there is no competitivity at all since we don't have tools to measure our own performance, let alone others. On the other hand you have WoW, which lacks something completely unnecessary for an MMO(Voice Acting), and instead put more effort in balancing the time you take to complete the endgame.

 

yeah...it's the same with WoW...exaplain

[lineschmidt]

Bull. Ask around and see how many people spent months playing games for faster or unique mounts, titles or other reward unlocks. It's side content, yes, but if executed properly, it can be the pressure valve for players annoyed with bad PvP *cough cough* or repetitive PvE *clears throat*.

It's still not content

 

It's a virtual carrot to get you to play content which is already there. There is a difference

[sinsur]

Bioware just looked to close at how wow is today and overseen that its dull and repetetive how it is right now.

Easy to reach endgame is not a good thing even if the whiners in the WoW forum say otherwise.

There needs to be a challange not a fast treadmill for getting geared.

There is close to no challange to mmos nowadays anymore. We are the perfect problem solver monkeys. Even the dumbest of us can handle more than this.

If we are not challanged we get bored.

The pace of getting gear just broke with Wrath of the lich King and SWtoR is copycatting that broken system.

Edited February 29, 2012 by sinsur

[tsupra]

There is no comparison between the games when it comes to gameplay,features,content,develpment!Thats what people are talking about!if you think that is better cause of b-movie voice act questlines then i m happy that you enjoy it,but as you mentioned its your first and you will soon understand that in a game this is the least you need Edited February 29, 2012 by tsupra

[ZudetGambeous]

So what your saying is that you smashed the esc button through the first 10 levels of WoW to skip the 10 or so cinematics in the first 10 levels of the wargon starting zone, as well as turned off the quest tracker that tells you exactly what to do and where to do it, and then come here to complain that there was no story and no quest tracker?

 

Troll harder next time...

 

While it's true that the BC and LK content is pretty boring and grinding, and the 20-58 story lacks and overall story arc, the 1-20 starting areas are quite rich in story, with a central plot line, cinematic cut-scenes, voice overs, etc. The only thing they don't have is dialog choices when compared to Tor, however they also aren't all just, run here kill this, run back quests.

[oursacrifice]

Bioware just looked to close at how wow is today and overseen that its dull and repetetive how it is right now.

Easy to reach endgame is not a good thing even if the whiners in the WoW forum say otherwise.

There needs to be a challange not a fast treadmill for getting geared.

There is close to no challange to mmos nowadays anymore. We are the perfect problem solver monkeys. Even the dumbest of us can handle more than this.

If we are not challanged we get bored.

The pace of getting gear just broke with Wrath of the lich King and SWtoR is copycatting that broken system.

 

Blizzard understands that end-game is the focus of a MMO. They understand that the vast majority of the MMO community does not want to spend most of their time leveling. People want to get through the level grind and get to raiding/heroic dungeons/end game pvp. That's why their formula is one of success. The challenge of WoW is the end game environment. Hardmode raiding, getting to gladiator status for arena, etc... The challenge is not supposed to be in leveling - leveling is simply there to teach you how to play your class.

[Dryana]

So what your saying is that you smashed the esc button through the first 10 levels of WoW to skip the 10 or so cinematics in the first 10 levels of the wargon starting zone, as well as turned off the quest tracker that tells you exactly what to do and where to do it, and then come here to complain that there was no story and no quest tracker?

 

Troll harder next time...

 

While it's true that the BC and LK content is pretty boring and grinding, and the 20-58 story lacks and overall story arc, the 1-20 starting areas are quite rich in story, with a central plot line, cinematic cut-scenes, voice overs, etc. The only thing they don't have is dialog choices when compared to Tor, however they also aren't all just, run here kill this, run back quests.

 

 

Most of the starting areas didn't receive the refresh, and are about as much interest as 60 - 70 (i.e. a grind). The OP is also extremely valid, in stating the Worgan starting area is dull and to add the (very) false English accents gets on one's nerves. Also while cut-scenes, etc do exist, they aren't in abundance.

 

WoW is a good game, but its now showing its age. Its end game is also currently in a worse state the SWTOR's.

Edited February 29, 2012 by Dryana

[Xeox]

I played WoW since shortly after the release of the game 7 years ago. In it's own right, it is a good game, but does not compare to SWTOR. The voice overs are amazing. It is much better than reading quest text, though 7 years ago, that was the norm among MMOs.

 

What this game does that pushes the MMO genre much further is not only the massive amount of voice over, but the decision making system also. The "You Choose Your Story" in an MMO has not been done to this scale before.

 

There is currently nothing like this game on the market for an MMO.

 

One, Tor failed on chose your story. Every path leads to the same road. Every sith is a darth. So you are caught In illusion and are simple minded

 

 

Two. GW2 has a story line that changes and ends on different paths. But does not make your character better or worse stat wise. If you fail to save a town or let some one die your story changes from there onward

 

The voice acting in gw2 is far better and there are no **** stars spouting dialogue for "hey I seems to have been rooted to this spot please go give this to my husband in the field alll the *********** way across the planet". Ya those voice overs are so epic

Edited February 29, 2012 by Xeox

[DarthKhaos]

Blizzard understands that end-game is the focus of a MMO. They understand that the vast majority of the MMO community does not want to spend most of their time leveling. People want to get through the level grind and get to raiding/heroic dungeons/end game pvp. That's why their formula is one of success. The challenge of WoW is the end game environment. Hardmode raiding, getting to gladiator status for arena, etc... The challenge is not supposed to be in leveling - leveling is simply there to teach you how to play your class.

This statement is so funny. Firstly Blizzard started off and became strong because they made leveling less tedious. Compare WoW leveling to say EQ, UO, SW:G or FFXI. Hard content? Dude WoW never have been or will be hard. What it did have in spades were idiots who made doing said content more difficult. I've gone on raids for the first time, never been there and just by using common sense realized what to and not to do. After one wipe with a different mechanic you know what's the deal. Why do you think the same guilds make server first with completing said content? Because they have the same set of non idiots to run it and complete it quickly.

 

Some fights are a bit more challenging and fun but World of Warcraft has NEVER been hard.

[oursacrifice]

This statement is so funny. Firstly Blizzard started off and became strong because they made leveling less tedious. Compare WoW leveling to say EQ, UO, SW:G or FFXI. Hard content? Dude WoW never have been or will be hard. What it did have in spades were idiots who made doing said content more difficult. I've gone on raids for the first time, never been there and just by using common sense realized what to and not to do. After one wipe with a different mechanic you know what's the deal. Why do you think the same guilds make server first with completing said content? Because they have the same set of non idiots to run it and complete it quickly.

 

Some fights are a bit more challenging and fun but World of Warcraft has NEVER been hard.

Please link your wowarmory profile so we can see how much hardmode content you’ve cleared. If it’s so easy you should have all content on farm status.

Oh and you’ll need to be able to prove it’s you by logging in and changing gear and stuff so that you simply just don’t go pick someone you know about and link theirs.

 

Thanks!

[Senatsu]

Bigger community, better MMO features (LFD, LFR, cross server tools, rated pvp, functional world pvp battles (Tol Barad is a million times better than Ilum ever will be), etc... then yeah, it has very little.

 

If you mean better class balance (Bioware can't even balance the mirror classes), more responsive combat, user mods, higher customization of your character, more leveling zones, less tedious running from A to B, better mounts, more interesting races that are actually DIFFERENT and a more interactive world, then yeah it has very little.

 

So yeah, WoW has pretty much everything on SWTOR except for voice acting (whoopity doo).

 

7 year old community? No **** Sherlock, OF COURSE IT'S GONNA BE BIGGER.

 

LFD, LFR and cross server tools is more isolating than anything. Just because you play with people you call it an MMO feature? I say, if you need to talk to the people you play with, THEN it's an MMO feature. LFD and LFR has removed WoW from an MMO (it never had any RPG elements so it doesn't deserve those last three letters), and turned it into Call of Duty: Modern Warfare 3 with optional grouping if you cba.

 

Blizzard started out with Wintergrasp and had lots of tips from Alterac Valley when they launched Tol Barad. They had tons of experience. If you were there when Wintergrasp started, you wouldn't say it was successful rather than a strand of luck that they finally got it right this time.

 

Blizzard has never and will never be able to balance the classes even close to how BioWare is doing it, at this point I doubt even Blizzard wants to do it. I believe they keep all the classes unbalanced just for ***** and giggles, but if I actually had faith in them anymore, I would rank it up to saying they did it so people kept playing hoping that the next patch would make their class OP. SWTOR is light years ahead in class balance.

 

WoW does not have higher customization of your character. They have 6-7 faces and 3 of them that you can actually tell a part from, they have different hairstyles (OMGRLY) and hair color (No ****).

 

Do you remember how Flight Path traveling worked in WoW during vanilla?

You clicked on one flight path that was in range, then you have to click on the next flight path in range of that one once you land. You had to keep doing that until you reached wherever you had to go. Blizzard now has 3 expansions with mounts and 7 years of concepts and ideas, to create more, how can BioWare ever compare with that? It's quite funny since WoW only had the horses, wolves, saber tigers, raptors, skeleton horses and the mechano striders, A.K.A. the racial mounts. That was all.

 

WoW has vanilla, TBC, WotLK, Cataclysm and it's revamped 1-60 content, of course it's gonna have more leveling zones and mounts, that's obvious.

 

Do you really miss the ENTIRETY of both games to bump your own Blizzard fanboizm? Pathetic.

[DarthKhaos]

Please link your wowarmory profile so we can see how much hardmode content you’ve cleared. If it’s so easy you should have all content on farm status.

Oh and you’ll need to be able to prove it’s you by logging in and changing gear and stuff so that you simply just don’t go pick someone you know about and link theirs.

 

Thanks!

Not possible. I no longer play WoW. Sorry. However you asking this means you missed the point of my post. Ask ANYONE who have played Previous MMOs before WoW & WoW and they will tell you that WoW is EZmode compared to them.

 

On a side note Final Fantasy Online (FFXI) had the best group combat I have ever experienced in any MMO past present and future. The Skillchain system truly gives grouping a dynamic and team feel. Ahhhh Teamwork... Good stuff...

Edited February 29, 2012 by DarthKhaos

[Frostvein]

I really find it the other way around. SWTOR has some really cool features, but WoW does alot of things ToR doesn't do, and many of the things they do the same WoW does better.

 

Does this mean I will go back to WoW? Probably not - I hate their endgame design and balance mantra. No boss should take 500 attempts from the best 25 people in the world, or even the top 5%. We were 6/7 pre-nerf and spent over 300 wipes on Rag with no kill. Their lack of PvE balance 7 or 8 years into the game is mystifying. And I won't really touch on PvP because I never got into it, but some classes were borderline ridiculous for months, years on end even with no changes. Same for classes on the bottom. Not to mention the talent tree revamp and their Ilvl squish - ugh.

 

But I do miss being able to explore whole continents from end to end. I miss being able to work on achievements. I miss mount collecting. I miss pet collecting I miss soloing old raids for gold and tier gear that I used to shove in my bank for no reason (until they implemented transmog) Stuff like that had me log in on off-days.

 

While alot of this stuff will come in time for ToR, I still don't think it will ever truly and fully encompass what WoW was able to do. I don't think 6 or 7 years from now this game will ever be as full and comprehensive as WoW is/was.