WOW really made me appreciate SWTOR

[oursacrifice]

Getting full tier gear in WoW was no different, simply a time investment and the ability to download DBM. No one said you were a virgin...it was just strongly implied. I apologize for any basement dweller reference as its clear you're more the kind of guy to live above your parent's garage.

 

Getting top level gear in WoW was not a matter of invested time. You clearly haven't read the fact that less than 2% of the population of the game has cleared Dragon Soul on hardmode. That means, less than 2% of the population has gotten the best gear available.

 

WoW raiding is far more than just an investment of time. It's a serious measure of not only personal skill, but situation awareness and the ability to multitask.

[oursacrifice]

Ok and now can you list what SW:TOR has for end game?

 

Sorry for the delayed response. Work stuff kept me away.

 

Two raids with 10 total bosses, a muddy difficulty overlap that doesn't totally reward the player and does not add a significant change to the fight mechanics.

 

Some hardmode flashpoints, don't recall the number that don't offer the correct type of gear progression since entry level operation groups have access to better gear and don't require heroic flashpoint geared players to complete. These also have a lockout of 1 per day while WoW allows you to keep running them if you're gearing up.

 

Nothing else.

[Skylarke]

 

The truth of the matter is the first MMO that ever "hooked you" will always be your favorite and the game you compare all other games to.

 

Not necessarily true.

 

My first MMORPG, back in 1999, was AC.

 

My favorite MMORPG to date is DAoC (pre-ToA).

 

[Morthis]

HAHAHAHAHAHA...GUFFAW...ROFL...CHUCKLE...wait, were you serious? Someone doesnt remember rag 1.0. Or ony fearing through the world...or any other number of MC/Ony bugs.

 

You're right, I forgot to make a note of Rag 1.0 specifically. Beyond that thought, we're talking about mostly minor glitches, not major bugs, getting feared under the world was not as common as you make it sound. As far as first content available goes, I felt it was relatively bug free. Not perfect by no stretch, but rather bug free. Certainly nothing like master loot = no loot, the pylon strategy guide details how to not bug the encounter, not how to actually beat the encounter because that part is trivial, Soa needs to be taunted if the tank gets mind trapped or he despawns oh wait nm he resets agro constantly now, oh wait nm that's being fixed so who knows what he does now, etc.

 

Did that guy really say that? MC wasn't in at launch, it was patched in at 1.1, and Ony was so bugged no one in the world could kill her for months after launch and even then she was downed using an exploit if I remember correctly because she was still so bugged. So many people really have selective memory when it comes to WoW and rose colored goggles.

 

You're right, Ony and MC were part of 1.1. Of course you forget one minor detail. Retail WoW was version 1.1.1, so Ony and MC were already there at the time WoW released. Foot, meet mouth.

 

Lol, WoW endgame and SWTOR endgame are almost identical. Aside from arenas and damage meters they're virtually the same, one big gear grind. If you think Cataclysm's end game content was more difficult than SWTOR's you're crazy. At least BW has the excuse that they haven't got 10+ years of experience designing MMO endgame content, what is Blizzard's excuse?

 

All this tells me you've never done WoW end game, SWTOR end game, or possibly either. The only way anyone could ever think that current SW:TOR end game is more challenging than heroic dragon soul is an extreme level of fanboism. Even then I think it would need to be paired with brain damage.

Edited February 28, 2012 by Morthis

[Senatsu]

No...they lack in endgame because devs have no idea what the **** to do. A great leveling experience will only keep you subbed for so long. It's limited in how you can improve and how much you can add, since once you hit the maximum level, that content loses its purpose(and thats how dailies are born). If it didn't work for you, too bad.

 

I know I had a good time leveling in WoW, maybe because I did it with my friends back when leveling took some effort. Admittedly, I also had a blast leveling in SWTOR...Problem is, the fun ended 3 weeks after hitting 50.

 

And the devs in WoW were any better?

 

Just because this MMO launched years after WoW doesn't mean the devs have any better idea of how the player base will play, react to, feel, appreciate, hate, want more or less of in a brand new game that has massive differences from WoW.

Besides, WoW's devs have been working on it for years. This is the SWTOR devs first MMO, there is not a snowball's chance in hell that they will be able to anticipate and/or calculate the effects of whatever they do. Once they do get a feel for it, like WoW's devs, things will move much more smoothly and efficiently.

[Shivetya]

LOL.

 

total opposite for me as well.

 

From a polished interface, player friendly environment, to great environments. Did I mention the customizable interface? Did I mention the player friendly environment? The lack of punitive travel? The lack of having to compensate for the worlds worst AI by stock EVERY SINGLE quest with strong or elite mobs?

 

So obviously you didn't play much, I will admit the werewolf section is a bit rough on those used to crap like this game

[oursacrifice]

And the devs in WoW were any better?

 

Just because this MMO launched years after WoW doesn't mean the devs have any better idea of how the player base will play, react to, feel, appreciate, hate, want more or less of in a brand new game that has massive differences from WoW.

Besides, WoW's devs have been working on it for years. This is the SWTOR devs first MMO, there is not a snowball's chance in hell that they will be able to anticipate and/or calculate the effects of whatever they do. Once they do get a feel for it, like WoW's devs, things will move much more smoothly and efficiently.

 

The fact that you think the LFD tool in WoW is a "Blizzard failure" pretty much omits your view on how developers judge community reaction/needs to design choices and ideas.

[RGFors]

At least there is so much balance that the tank will die if there's no heal coming in. This is already a whole lot more than in WoW where one can solo everything, with the right specc.

 

Concerning dmg meters, I wouldn't have a problem, as long as they'd come on a voluntary basis: meters on and you send+receive data, meters off and you don't. So that nobody is obliged to let others scrutinize what he's doing - but he will only see what the others are doing if he let's them see his own data.

 

You are cracking me up with your soloing comments. Yes, a level 85 can go back and solo some level 60 or 70 content. No, a level 85 cannot go solo level 85 content (I'm referring to raids).

 

I play both games, and enjoy both. There are a lot of similarities, but far more differences. I have fun which ever i log into. Wow feels more responsive and the dungeons/raids are far better. SW's leveling has been a lot of fun. The biggest defference? Chat in SW isn't filled with as many morons yet.

Edited February 29, 2012 by RGFors

[SymbioticDJK]

LFD a failure? Now I have to explain to my co-workers why I am LAWL'ing and look like a dork I haven't heard, anything that funny since the passing of Mr. George Carlin. GG! GG! Brah!

[Rollcageuk]

Getting top level gear in WoW was not a matter of invested time. You clearly haven't read the fact that less than 2% of the population of the game has cleared Dragon Soul on hardmode. That means, less than 2% of the population has gotten the best gear available.

 

WoW raiding is far more than just an investment of time. It's a serious measure of not only personal skill, but situation awareness and the ability to multitask.

 

So, you want a game with gear that only 2% of the playerbase can get?

In fact before I left most players weren't even bothered about it, and were only raiding to keep in touch with their friends. The raids themselves were boring.

 

BW have got to make the game relatively easy to start with so that people who haven't played WOW for the past 7 years have a chance to do it. Your selfish leetist attitude is the reason why before WOW most MMOs were very much niche geek fests. They were too hard and absorbing for casuals to play.

 

BW want to continue what WOW started and appeal to casual players. WOW did that for years and got a huge subscription base. The moment they went back to appealing to the leet geeks subs dropped like a stone.

 

Its the nature of the game, it will get harder but as the game is brand new and a lot of people are new to MMOs and this kind of game, they have to appeal to the lowest common denominator.

 

Its a sensible approach, it needs more balance and some encounters do need to be harder/more challenging, but they will come. TOR is a new game, not a game that people have been playing for 7 years, it will do you good to remember that.

[jpswtor]

And that's exactly why all games after WoW failed. It's not about questing or instances.

 

It's how those things create an environment in which a good community can be formed and maintained, i.e. the social aspect.

 

In ToR it's basically: You group up, you finish your quest/FP/OP, and you stop caring.

 

In WoW-Vanilla: You actually kept in touch with capable guys you encountered. By the end of Vanilla you basically knew half of your servers population (horde AND Alliance).

My prediction for ToR is: You'll maybe get to know your guild members, and no other faction players at all.

 

Aha. And why is this do you think? It is because since 5 years or so ago, WoW became this "sprint to level 85 then grind raids and grief n00bs" raceing game. I tried WoW after it thoroughly killed any competition (for whatever reason people thought it was better than the wonderful NwN with all the player made content and servers around). Never have I felt so alone in any game. Even the NPCs in Dragon Age made me feel more welcome than those selfish teenagers predominantly populating WoW servers.

 

The worst thing is the damned dungeon finder. You click on a button and then you either wait just as long as it takes to find people on swtor with the general chat and LFG flag or you continue your soloing (because outside DF nobody ever teams up) until you get beamed to your dungeon where you have to speed through behind people who have done it 10000 times over and just want to go for the end boss while you want to explore and take your time. Either you race with them, you die because you are left behind or you get kicked for not performing up to the standard "rush rush" playstyle.

 

On top of it, I just plain hate the way the races look in their cartoon style. Who can take talking cows and dwarfs on motorcycles(!) serious, that make Disney cartoons look realistic in comparison, and imerse themselves in that game?

 

The scenary always looks like the designers got stuck on acid, quests are totally repetitive and make you run forth and back between phases ... "Bring me 10 rat tails" -- hack hack slash slash -- "now bring me the head of the rat queen" -- Wait a moment, I just killed that rat queen 10 minutes ago, do I really have to go back, wait for respawn and kill it again?

 

Oh how much better is swtor for the way those "kill x of y" quests are set as "bonus" and update on the fly. How much more do I like the graphics style of this game. How much better are the quests with a story worth following up for the excelent voice acting instead of just speed clicking "accept quest" on every toon with a "?" hovering above their head.

 

And oh how does this game suffer from the WoW barbarian hords that simply have no idea about grouping, have forgotten what "role playing game" really stands for, rush rush leveling to --- WHAT? Only 50 Levels? How lame is that -- endgame and then come here to lament about lack of "end game content" and PvP features.

 

And talking of "new kids on the block". It is the old style pen&paper RPers that have been around since long before WoW that can remember what it meant to be level 10(!) in DnD and how hard you had to work for it. Basically, a level 20 character was indeed finished. Time to retire and roll a new one. Noone expected DMs to come up with ever more powerful adversaries and outlandish stories to set the challenges for those veterans.

 

I wish I could find a few more "take it slow" casual gamers that have a life, work, etc. that care about RPing in a beautiful environment. Using their imagination to role play the missing "features" the WoW fanclub demands or they be gone.

 

And last not least: How I wish those people would indeed deliver and leave already to let this game develop into something even better, not just WoW in space.

 

Ah, and yes, I will at least get one more game card. I have not made up my mind about longer term subscription, because of the lurking danger of crappyfication a.k.a. x-server-LFG insta dungeon, added scripting, nerfing of every class to death for the sake of the PvP "argh, <any_class> is totally overpowered" crybabies, etc.

 

Cheers

 

jp

[Senatsu]

The fact that you think the LFD tool in WoW is a "Blizzard failure" pretty much omits your view on how developers judge community reaction/needs to design choices and ideas.

 

Especially when it comes to LFD. Any gamer worth his salt can tell you all the horrible side effects of LFD. Sure, it's a good idea on paper, but so is communism.

[JediSagan]

So much rage has filled me ever since I started playing swtor.

It's almost unhealthy, I almost think about unsubscribing because of all the problems.

And all these nerfs that killed alot of the games mechanics.

It's like they want to turn this game into some sort of Guild Wars like crap.

[SymbioticDJK]

WoW quest had diversity. Sure, it had "collect X" or "kill X". but the quest did have

 

more to it than that. SWTOR has "1" "ONE" I repeat "1" quest. Go to the back of this

 

building! collect and/or kill X, then work your way back through all the trash again. I

 

know you get the bonus kill X 40 times but you get it. Seriously though! ONE QUEST,

 

come on.

Edited February 29, 2012 by SymbioticDJK

[JediSagan]

WoW quest had diversity. Sure, it had "collect X" or "kill X". but the quest did have

 

more to it than that. SWTOR has "1" "ONE" I repeat "1" quest. Go to the back of this

 

building! collect and/or kill X, then work your way back through all the trash again. I

 

know you get the bonus kill X 40 times but you get it. Seriously though! ONE QUEST,

 

come on.

 

SWTOR = LACKS ALOT OF ****, NERFS TOO MUCH ****, GREEDY PRICE TAG. should be only $6.99 a month for this crap. I don't care how big the God damn land is, I played f2p mmos that had HUGE planet like landscapes with decent graphics. It doesn't make it a game, Games require mechanics to engage the player in an experience, If I wanted to see luxorious lands I would have just played SECOND LIFE or even run up a visual land simulator. Seriously I got SWTOR for STAR WARS game mechanics and story. THE STORY IS THERE, THE MECHANICS ARE LACKING and NERFED, EVERY PATCH preformance is LOST. :mad::mad:

[Limedust]

Voice-overs? Really? That is what is deciding so many of you? I have had some fun with this game, but in my opinion the voice-overs are the absolute worst part of the leveling experience. The stories are trite, the responses pointless (and often have nothing to do with what the text choice indicates), and all of it is so tediously repetitive. My Sorcerer has said "Murder and Mayhem await" at least 20 times through level 38.

 

I think that the voice-overs destroy immersion and add absolutely zero value to my gaming experience. I can read faster than these people talk, and interpret responses in a way that is impossible with the overwrought, histrionic inflection and clown-like facial expressions.

[Senatsu]

WoW quest had diversity. Sure, it had "collect X" or "kill X". but the quest did have

 

more to it than that. SWTOR has "1" "ONE" I repeat "1" quest. Go to the back of this

 

building! collect and/or kill X, then work your way back through all the trash again. I

 

know you get the bonus kill X 40 times but you get it. Seriously though! ONE QUEST,

 

come on.

 

WoW quests had diversity? They are no more diverse than this game is, at least BioWare made the bonuses instead of kill quests when you were going to kill the mobs anyway to get to the primary objective. What did WoW do? They added more kill quests! Yay....

[oursacrifice]

So, you want a game with gear that only 2% of the playerbase can get?

In fact before I left most players weren't even bothered about it, and were only raiding to keep in touch with their friends. The raids themselves were boring.

 

No, but the fact that they actually design difficult encounters shows that they are clearly in touch with pretty much their entire playerbase. They have easy content for casuals, normal content for your average raider, and heroic content for your hardcore group.

 

This game simply has nothing but easy.

 

That response was also specifically disputing the claim that WoW raiding was "easy" and getting the best gear was "easy". It's not. That's undeniable.

 

BW have got to make the game relatively easy to start with so that people who haven't played WOW for the past 7 years have a chance to do it. Your selfish leetist attitude is the reason why before WOW most MMOs were very much niche geek fests. They were too hard and absorbing for casuals to play.

 

I don't have a selfish elitest attitude. I'm simply asking for some amount of difficulty for content that's is, by the name, supposed to be hard instead of it simply being a DPS race - that's NOT hard.

 

BW want to continue what WOW started and appeal to casual players. WOW did that for years and got a huge subscription base. The moment they went back to appealing to the leet geeks subs dropped like a stone.

 

They haven't appealed to "leet geeks" (whatever retarded label you're using) since TBC.

 

TOR is a new game, not a game that people have been playing for 7 years, it will do you good to remember that.

 

I don't care how old it is. Subscriptions are dropping, "dedicated MMO players" are leaving. Soon, the bulk of the community will be the keyboard turning mouse clicking type players that have a hard time moving out of those "bad red circles". These types of casual gamers can't keep a MMO community thriving and moving forward. The moment the game becomes overrun by that type of player, progression content is over.

[SymbioticDJK]

SWTOR = LACKS ALOT OF ****, NERFS TOO MUCH ****, GREEDY PRICE TAG. should be only $6.99 a month for this crap. I don't care how big the gosh darn land is, I played f2p mmos that had HUGE planet like landscapes with decent graphics. It doesn't make it a game, Games require mechanics to engage the player in an experience, If I wanted to see luxorious lands I would have just played SECOND LIFE or even run up a visual land simulator. Seriously I got SWTOR for STAR WARS game mechanics and story. THE STORY IS THERE, THE MECHANICS ARE LACKING and NERFED, EVERY PATCH preformance is LOST. :mad::mad:

 

 

Fair enough! I too am a SW fan. The story is nice, I agree. If I came off as harsh it is because I am pissed this is what the game is. I didn't have super high hopes for TOR but I did expect more than this.

[SymbioticDJK]

WoW quests had diversity? They are no more diverse than this game is, at least BioWare made the bonuses instead of kill quests when you were going to kill the mobs anyway to get to the primary objective. What did WoW do? They added more kill quests! Yay....

 

 

ROFL. You are the person who thinks LFD was a failure. I can't take anything you say seriously. Go away fanboy. Oh and YEAH! WoW had more than the ONE quest unlike TOR.

Edited February 29, 2012 by SymbioticDJK

[Senatsu]

ROFL. You are the person who thinks LFD was a failure. I can't take anything you say seriously. Go away fanboy.

 

No thank you. I'm a fan of the old style WoW, you know.... where you actually needed to socialize to do something. If you're so anti-social that you need LFD to do content, I pity you.

[oursacrifice]

Especially when it comes to LFD. Any gamer worth his salt can tell you all the horrible side effects of LFD. Sure, it's a good idea on paper, but so is communism.

 

Except the LFD system in WoW was a booming success and has become a near requirement for the bulk of MMO communities. "Server community" is not real outside of the minds of a small handful of people that think people give a crap about you or what you do when you're online.

 

"LF 'x' (x being whatever missing role you need) for HM 'y' (y being whatever flashpoint you're wanting to run)" for 2 hours straight is not "server community". It's called a joke, and it's a colossal waste of player time.

[DarthKhaos]

Ao as you stated World of Warcraft has

rated battlegrounds

arena

1 raid with 8 bosses and 3 distinct difficulty levels

3 or so new heroic 5 man dungeons

and Star Wars: The Old Republic has

Two raids with 10 total bosses,

Some hardmode flashpoints,

I would like to point out that the 2 raids has 2 difficulty levels since you mentioned the difficulty level for WoW, 16 Hardmode Flashpoints.

 

As it stands I don't see much difference with the amount of content for end game.

How much people actually took part in it has no baring on the amount of content available.

[SymbioticDJK]

No thank you. I'm a fan of the old style WoW, you know.... where you actually needed to socialize to do something. If you're so anti-social that you need LFD to do content, I pity you.

 

Well if you like OLD style you better find a new game then. BW will continue the copy/paste of WoW, including the ZOMG horrible LFD tool. Let the past go brah! I'm not anti social. Here I am

[Drouh]

it's kinda ironic that these voices cost like 80-100 mil $ and I've skipped them all... They just slow down leveling anyhow