lineschmidt Posted February 28, 2012 Share Posted February 28, 2012 Some pretty low standards you have there... Yea because your opinion is fact amirite? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldBenSmokin Posted February 28, 2012 Share Posted February 28, 2012 Just ignore him, Bob. Look at his post history for a good laugh, then ignore him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lineschmidt Posted February 28, 2012 Share Posted February 28, 2012 (edited) Just ignore him, Bob. Look at his post history for a good laugh, then ignore him. Says the guy who has a long history of bashing the game yet is still posting here? Ahahahaha, funny stuff:D Edited February 28, 2012 by lineschmidt Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vekkth Posted February 28, 2012 Share Posted February 28, 2012 what really amazes me (and i mean, really, seriously does) is how people keep telling that WoW has interesting end game. This might come only from those who are fresh to WoW, played it may be for 2-3 years max. Everyone who was playing this game since vanilla, even those who criticize SWTOR for being dull at the end game (and in fact it is a bit dull at that), they srsly puke every time someone jokingly say OK LETS GO BACK TO WOW! Guys WoW was creative when mechanics like Twin Emperors were presented, or 4 horsemen, or some amazing fights in TBC, or Ulduar (which is probably still the best and hardest on hard modes), or some fights in ICC, praise you Professor. But now, in cata - really, i've bought the expansion, played it for 2 months, and was absolutely burned out - mechanics are literally the same, there is nothing to do for a player who did Firefighter on HM back in the days. So yes you can pretend that SWTOR end game sucks, it does, but WoW is like the deadliest, selfcopying, reused horse in this and several other universes. Really, if you criticize SWTOR for bad end game, at least do not bring up WoW as an example of a proper one. Or admit you are a younger player. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bobzitto Posted February 28, 2012 Share Posted February 28, 2012 No, my opinion is based on facts. Yours is based on lack of experience it would seem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lineschmidt Posted February 28, 2012 Share Posted February 28, 2012 (edited) No, my opinion is based on facts. Yours is based on lack of experience it would seem. Did you get yours from Fallacies R' Us? Because so far i haven't seen you present any facts at all to support it Edited February 28, 2012 by lineschmidt Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bobzitto Posted February 28, 2012 Share Posted February 28, 2012 Says the guy who has a long history of bashing the game yet is still posting here? The ones 'bashing' the games are the ones who want to see it fixed and actually playable. Those saying the game is fine are just lying to themselves or haven't reached lvl 50 yet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldBenSmokin Posted February 28, 2012 Share Posted February 28, 2012 Like I said Bob... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lineschmidt Posted February 28, 2012 Share Posted February 28, 2012 The ones 'bashing' the games are the ones who want to see it fixed and actually playable. Those saying the game is fine are just lying to themselves or haven't reached lvl 50 yet. 2 lvl 50s, enjoying the game Stop liking what i don't like? Or do you actually have those facts you claim your opinion is based on Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marmerus Posted February 28, 2012 Share Posted February 28, 2012 The ones 'bashing' the games are the ones who want to see it fixed and actually playable. Those saying the game is fine are just lying to themselves or haven't reached lvl 50 yet. You don't need to reach any higher than level 10 to start seeing the flaws. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vekkth Posted February 28, 2012 Share Posted February 28, 2012 The ones 'bashing' the games are the ones who want to see it fixed and actually playable. Those saying the game is fine are just lying to themselves or haven't reached lvl 50 yet. no, those who are bashing the game are just trying to cope the feeling of a disappointment they have. If you have a child, or worked with those, you know when in frustration they might try to attack the reason of their frustration, just to let it go. Animals, like high primates, do the same thing. Since they do not know what to do to "fix" their toy, they try to destroy it - just to get rid of the frustration. Its a well known mechanism. On the other side, those who want the game to become better, work on providing relevant and well written feedback to devs, hoping to be heard in time. I, for example, tried this when i encountered a "bug" that really hindered me in enjoying the game - the famous No Valor Gained on Ilum. I wrote a thread, wrote a q/a post, wrote numerous support tickets, since i was presented with zero attention i just canceled my sub - if anything changes in 20 days i still have on it, then - great, i will continue to play. If not - i will just leave. But i will never come and bash the game on the forums - well, i am a bit older then 4 y.o., and i think i am not a monkey either, tho a bit hairy atm. Cheers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Uniqorn Posted February 28, 2012 Share Posted February 28, 2012 I am so glad I NEVER EVER played WoW and never will!!!! So many people comparing this game to WoW I can laugh and move on since I played a different MMO instead and I can appreciate what BioWare has done with this game. I love it, enjoy the stories and when I am done with one story I will make another and try that one out. This game is different and refreshing and I look forward to watching this game develop and grow. I knew when purchasing this game it was a story based game and not like most MMO's out there, thats what drew me in and keeps me here. I have played BW's console games and love them so I am not disappointed in this at all. So to the OP..welcome back! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarthKhaos Posted February 28, 2012 Share Posted February 28, 2012 Some may agree with me, some may not about what I'm about to say. A long time ago I gave up on being "hardcore" the time I played 53hrs straight in 3 days. NEVER again. Don't get me wrong I still maintained my level of skill and competitive edge but it no longer drives me. I log on whenever, I spend a lot of time just shooting the breeze and chatting with online friends. Now firstly I enjoyed my time at World of Warcraft. It was the prime example of jack of all master of none. You can find better end game elsewhere, better pvp, better quest, all that jazz. However no other game before had good of all. That's what WoW brought to the table. SW:TOR went extra casual. Focused on bringing a cinematic experience to the genre. I mean come on Star Wars originated from a cinematic media. The leveling is great, voice acting is wonderful, and there's other means of leveling in the game beside questing. Now when it comes to end game the major complaint is that it's too easy. The gear is too attainable. Now I can only speculate but it could be they didn't want to try to lead players on with a long stick with a carrot on the end of it. They probably believed people will run the content just for the fun of it. I agree with this for PvP. PvE not so much however if you make PvP easy to attain and PvE hard to attain there's going to be a riot. Now as for why I say this is a good, no great philosophy for PvP is this. I do not believe in PvPing to get gear. I believe in getting gear to PvP. I laugh when people say they got the best PvP gear so there's no reason to PvP. True competitive PvP happens when everyone has equivalent gear. If everyone can get the gear easy now your PvP battles come down to skill and not gear. SW:TOR has a great base. Adding onto it will truly take this game to the next level. With a great leveling experience out of the way you can add extra areas to existing planets, new planets, toss in some sandbox elements, increase end game content, new class chapters, the list goes on. I believe focusing on bugs and some QOL features is a good choice this early on. They already have end game stuff planned in 1.2 which will be soon. I really don't understand why there is so much hate. I stopped playing World of Warcraft for truly game breaking technical issues. Now when I say game breaking I am not talking about something like I can't notice the exact moment when my cooldown is ready, but I cannot physically play any character. I do not have this issue with SW:TOR. A lot of people don't. Some do. SW:TOR launch did not have mass servers down, bugs so bad that 2/3 of the game population couldn't play. Many many many.. Wait almost all game before, after and including WoW did. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarthKhaos Posted February 28, 2012 Share Posted February 28, 2012 Do you "rp walk" everywhere and never run? This is funny because I sometimes walk through fleet. If you do it long enough you end up with a train of people walking behind you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Evolved_Monky Posted February 28, 2012 Share Posted February 28, 2012 Hated WoW. Not a fan of raids and grinding for gear, makes me feel like im working and not playing a game. I just want Bio to add more epic stories like the class stories. Monthly planet stories with bi-monthly class stories.... I would pay up for a year.... But I know the vocal minority will QQ till they get more boring "endgame" then jump ship to QQ about another MMO's "endgame" and bio will give in and turn SWTOR into another cookie cutter bore fest. I just wanted a never ending KOTOR online and I had it for a few months but in the end itll just turn into a "endgame" MMO that no one plays. Last updates other than fixes were such a let down. I payed $50 bucks + $15 a month for a Bioware game not a Wannabe Blizzard game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldBenSmokin Posted February 28, 2012 Share Posted February 28, 2012 I stopped playing World of Warcraft for truly game breaking technical issues. Enlighten us, please. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kowasin Posted February 28, 2012 Share Posted February 28, 2012 Hated WoW. Not a fan of raids and grinding for gear, makes me feel like im working and not playing a game. And TOR has none of this right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zaltanus Posted February 28, 2012 Share Posted February 28, 2012 I cut my MMO teeth on wow starting from vanilla right until a couple months before cata came out. In the end, I left because it really become a purp filled gear competition and I also noticed the 'age' of the server going down. The maturity level and people being jerks when they didn't really have to be was frustrating, and for someone who 40 manned MC, having to spend time to get attuned to a bunch of places and really having to work to progress, WoW is a distant shadow of a memory of the difficulty it once was. Plus, when you play something for 5-7 years, it's really tough to hold attention for that long. WoWCrack did that for me for a while, but bordom struck and it was time to do something else. Anyways, despite similarities here, I really do enjoy tor. The stories are good, the endgame is fun (even though it's not really challenging) and I like the PvP (clarification: less huttball plox). I also see the potential of what it could be down the road. I'm on the hook at least for now to see what happens over the next 6 months-1 year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarthKhaos Posted February 28, 2012 Share Posted February 28, 2012 Enlighten us, please. After one patch my latency went from 250ms to 5,000ms minimum. I have even recorded 20,000ms latency. This occurred on Monday to Friday, then on Saturday and Sunday latency was back to normal. I contacted both Blizzard & my ISP concerning the issue and neither could resolve the problem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JadedSinner Posted February 28, 2012 Share Posted February 28, 2012 Meh, I'm doing the same thing in SWTOR end game that I was doing in WOW end game; grinding BG's(WZ's), Grinding Heroic Instances (Flashpoints), and grinding dailies. Illum CAN be a feather in Biowares cap if they can work it out, but the real difference that WOW has and Bioware doesn't yet is a robust community that can keep your mind off the monotony. Bioware really needs to work on this so that they can hold people even when the content is lackluster. Also, I think it must be and probably has been said that WOW-vanilla 2 months after launch didn't have remotely the level of end game that SWTOR has 2 months after launch. Now, it was FAR more difficult to level WOW-vanilla back then as well, but even 6+ months after launch you had three things to do; Keep 10 manning Scholomance,UBRS,and Stratholme or if you were truly elite, 40 man The Molten Core. The third was epic crafting and may as well throw in grinding for the epic mount. I'm not even sure if they had BG's by that point and if they did, they were a nightmare. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bebedelette Posted February 28, 2012 Share Posted February 28, 2012 (edited) really wish i could subscribe to this convo Edited February 28, 2012 by bebedelette Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oursacrifice Posted February 28, 2012 Share Posted February 28, 2012 Also, I think it must be and probably has been said that WOW-vanilla 2 months after launch didn't have remotely the level of end game that SWTOR has 2 months after launch. Now, it was FAR more difficult to level WOW-vanilla back then as well, but even 6+ months after launch you had three things to do; Keep 10 manning Scholomance,UBRS,and Stratholme or if you were truly elite, 40 man The Molten Core. The third was epic crafting and may as well throw in grinding for the epic mount. I'm not even sure if they had BG's by that point and if they did, they were a nightmare. The problem is, this stance never has and never will make sense. SWTOR isn't competing with 2005 WoW, it's competing with 2011/2012 WoW. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morthis Posted February 28, 2012 Share Posted February 28, 2012 Some of the stuff in here cracks me up. "Star Wars quests are more interesting than WoW's". Instead of "kill 10 pigs" it's "kill 10 smugglers", oh the intrigue! Now, of course, there's a voice acted story behind it, but there's quest text behind WoW quests as well. Both boil down to the same thing, oh no something has happened and the quest NPC, despite likely being higher level than you/better suited to solve it can't, and he needs you to do it. Sure it's more interesting to talk to people about this than to read text, but when I run into the 50th Imperial officer who has screwed something up and needs me to go fix it I'm starting to question how people can find these sidequests any less run of the mill than a standard MMO's. Class quests and for the most part the main planet quest line typically are fairly interesting though, I'll give you that. Then there's the other one "This game is nothing like WoW". This is true on a basic level, but if you dig a little, the games are extremely similar. Obvious differences are the setting (Star Wars vs Warcraft), the graphical style (realistic vs cartoony), and the quest delivery (voice over vs wall of text). After that though, I mostly just see similarities. They both use standard might or magic based characters. It's just called force in SW:TOR, and force in SWTOR is twisted completely from the kind of force use we see in the movies to be similar the kind of magic system most MMO's used. SWTOR classes are pretty routine. It's mostly just hit guys with a stick, shoot them with force or shoot them with guns that you always see. Only one resource system is slightly different from the norm, and that one got copied onto two classes, the bars just move in the other direction. It also follows the standard holy trinity. Both use straight forward talent point systems. There's been plenty of examples of specialization options that aren't quite as cookie cutter or "Get 31 points in the tree of your choice then grab the best first/second tier talents with the points you have left". Anarchy Online or even Daoc come to mind for older games, and Rift for a modern one. Both use proc based "rotations". I'm not sure if WoW started this or not, but if you look at games before WoW, like EQ, it was just hit whatever buttons are the best ones constantly. There was no change in combat pace based on specific events happening (like procs). Daoc's styles are probably closest to this for MMO's predating WoW that I can think of atm. A ton of abilities feel almost like a straight copy/paste from WoW. Charge, shield, lifegrip, intervene, etc. Now I need to add (although I'm sure some will ignore it anyway), WoW did not invent most of this. Likewise, a lot of these concepts apply to a ton of modern MMO's. It's just that there are examples of MMO's at least trying to break this mold, a lot of them failed, but then, plenty that just tried to copy/paste WoW failed too. AoC tried melee combo attacks, having to aim melee, limited healing, spell weaving (which was a crappy rushed version of their original explanations). Rift tried spreading roles around more and making specializing your character more interesting than "Put 31 points in healing, then put the other 10 in whatever is the best in the other two trees". Guild Wars 2 is trying to break from the Trinity. EVE Online broke pretty much every standard expectation for MMO's. Tera seems to be trying to change things up as well with it's aimed combat and heavy use of reactive abilities. Daoc features some classes behaving rather differently from normal (like the necromancer or warlock) and of course it's heavy RvR focus. What is SWTOR doing to stand out? Voice over quests and more story driven content, which carries for the first 49 levels. What happens after that? If they keep adding story constantly and make it sort of like KOTOR single player that never ends, sure that could work, if they're up for it (I'm not sure it's realistic to develop this much content though). So far at end game though, we see dungeons, raids, and battlegrounds, the exact same thing as WoW. If they don't want to be unfavorably compared to WoW (ignoring graphics or preferences of universes to play in for a moment, it's hard to argue WoW offers far more features and content than SWTOR does), they should stop making their end game such a clone of WoW. As long as they remain WoW in space, you will see complaints that WoW offers more features/content/etc, and you wouldn't have to keep saying "It's only been 2 months". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarthKhaos Posted February 28, 2012 Share Posted February 28, 2012 (edited) The problem is, this stance never has and never will make sense. SWTOR isn't competing with 2005 WoW, it's competing with 2011/2012 WoW. Well he was pointing out that development takes time and even though it is competing with a game that has been out for 7-8 years, one must realize that MMOs take time to come into their own. World of Warcraft was not competing with EQ launch but EQ in its current state and yet did not have as much content as EQ. Also, can you please list all the end game stuff World of Warcraft currently has? Edited February 28, 2012 by DarthKhaos Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SFC-Lawndart Posted February 28, 2012 Share Posted February 28, 2012 So much e-peen hatered over which game is better. The truth of the matter is the first MMO that ever "hooked you" will always be your favorite and the game you compare all other games to. Which is very similar to your first girlfriend/boyfriend. I started in EQ1 in 1999. When I tried WOW for 6 months I thought it was the absolutely most boring game I ever played. To me, nothing will ever be as good as EQ1. You come to realize later, that not all games (and women for that matter) can be compared and although many have similar features, they will never be your first true love. So stop it, and love them for are, not what they could be/should be/aren't. You'll save yourself a lot of headaches this way - on both fronts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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