This game lacks epeen

[Tarithella]

Please note that you are confusing having a lot of time, with being good. Finishing content before others does not mean in any way shape or form, that you are a quality player.

 

This is spot on. Time available to play does not relate to skill. Time played to clear all content can often denote skill however.

 

All said and done the true hardcore players leveled and the majority probably left within the 1st month due to lack of end game content without a murmur or forum post. The people left behind aren't the theorycrafters or community authors/leaders of yesteryear but are probably either,

 

1/ People who think they are hardcore players but simply aren't who are very vocal about why the game is bad. [The X Box Generation]

 

2/ People who used to high end raid in other games but are now playing on a more casual basis but who intend to raid eventually or are raiding currently. [Predominately older players with other committments]

 

3/ The truly casual players who are just enjoying the ride but are sick of the endless QQ so they QQ back as they know no other way.

 

4/ Star Wars fans who have not played an MMO who are just enjoying the story and experiance.

 

Basically the same demographic as every other MMO at launch. Same QQ different game.

[Saurakk]

Wrong, I have already pointed out multiple times, my guild did everything in the game playing on a very casual schedule of 9 hours a week. And we barely even played that because nothing slowed us down, Soa 16 man nightmare took less then 10 attempts.........give me a break.

 

You don't need massive amounts of free time, you just have to not suck.

 

Exactly. Is it rocket science? No. Is it harder than soloing? Of course.

 

Many people find they cannot follow directions, be patient, work as a team. Its a different type of play that not every is able to grasp.

 

If it were so easy, everyone would do it. My old raiding guild only raided 2 days a week for 3 hours each day. Most self proclaimed casual players put in more time than that.

[ratfanatic]

Why do people always assume that those at max level are quitting, and not rolling alts?

[Saurakk]

The "hardcore" crowd is really not needed in any games.

 

Catering to them is useless because they are so high maintenance.

Want this, want that, whine about this and that and they all pay the same $15.

Make the game too hard and they whine.

Make it easy and they whine.

 

"Hardcores" think that everyone, including casuals, look up to them which is nothing further from the truth.

No one cares about the hardcores.

 

If a game truely caters to the hardcore, their subscription numbers will drop like a rock.

The hardcore will bail to another MMO like GW2 as soon as it comes out.

 

The most successful games are the casual games

e.g. Angry Birds, Farmville

 

Why can't I sit?

 

Why is there no swimming?

 

I want pretty clothes to sit in the bar with, why can't I sit again?

 

My fluff pets are not fluffy enough.

 

My class story quest is too hard!

 

Why is there no social hub?

 

I have to run too much?

 

We can stereotype all day long if it makes you feel better. It does not to address the issue or the topic however.

[Saurakk]

The main people being rude and attacking on this thread are posing subjective drivel like your post.

 

Look in the mirror first before judging others who simply are asking for more challenging content.

 

Trust me, if you stop looking to be annoyed by imaginary things you won't even know they are there.

Edited March 1, 2012 by Trineda
removed quote

[Gradivus]

This game has no epeen factor or skill factor and that is why my server is dying fast.

 

We have 4 guilds that have cleared all nightmare 16 man raid content. Countless others doing 8 man.

 

Most pvpers got all the battlemaster gear and I never see them on anymore because they either quit or are waiting for some sort of incentive to log in again.

 

I don't think this game lacked endgame content, it was just way too easy to beat and way too easy to get all the gear in the game, pve and pvp.

 

Whatever hardcore playerbase was/is here needs challenging content and a reason to farm it. Quality pvp players need a competitive situation and not just a stupid RNG grind.

 

1.2 better hurry and it better be incredible, with rated warzones and compelling/challenging content.............but it might already be too late.

 

You can argue all day about game is failing/successful or thriving/dying but I can only tell you what I witness on my own server as someone who cares, and I have seen our pop dwindling, with our hardcore playerbase bleeding out extremely fast.

 

Maybe you want the more hardcore players gone, maybe you dislike them for whatever reason, but the hardcore playerbase is a good base of an MMO, you don't want to lose them.

 

In short, this game needs more epeen and reasons for hardcore players to keep playing.

 

It is a short window to keep us here before we move onto the next big thing or end up going back to MMO's that we came from that are simply doing it better. I was patient, gave game a couple of months, wasn't going to jump ship so fast, but time is running short.

 

You only hear or have bad experiences with the minority of hardcore players. The majority of them are good people who absolutely drive MMO's because they care.

 

They are the ones who create awesome websites with strats and videos for bosses, or the math nerds who theorycraft all the best specs and how to gear and spreadsheets and 3rd party programs to make the game better if you are into that stuff.

 

They are the ones who are comfortable leading PUG raids (ops) in their sparetime or leading rated pvp teams.

 

They are the ones who run smaller dungeon/flashpoint content multiple times looking for specific gear or trying out a new spec or playing alts or maybe even just for fun, while a casual may run it only once just to see it, this makes more groups happening and more often!

 

They are the ones who run the best guilds and push content and develop rivalries and server communities in both PVE and PVP.

 

They are the ones who are very active on the GTN and help drive the server economy.

 

They are the ones willing to test new content on patches on the test servers.

 

You may not want to believe it or care, but losing your hardcore playerbase has a very important trickle down effect on the servers. They are the players that are around the most and you will notice it when they are gone, I already am noticing it and it is not good.

 

Edit: Added one of my other posts to this as I felt it was relevant and helped add to my original point.

 

Some of your arguments are quite valid, but please stop using "epeen" as if it were a real word. It doesn't make your post look more credible, to say the least.

[DarthKhaos]

There is tons to do , there is really tons and tons to do , if you want to be helpfull and productive society member of this game .

there isn´t anything to do , when you are selfishe **** who only thinks , what do I get out of it .

 

Here a list what Old hardcore players from EQ SWG -WOW did for the community .

They boosted and helped starting guilds , they help gear up guild masters.

So those in turn can raid themself without there help .

 

You can keep on running hardmode flashpoints even if you don´t need the gear.

Cause helping others enjoy and geared isn´t beter experience for them ?

Well it is the F off mentality and thank you but thanks for nothing .

That make most helpfull people , why should I stress and feel annoyed .

When I have a beter time doing nothing ..

 

Sorry people saying there is nothing to do , I call shennigan , cause there is nothing to do for them .

Nothing wrong with that , but don´t expect the next MMO to be any different .

Are you related to the British? I mean all you need is some of their more unique phrases and you're set.

Aaannnddd you're also correct. My leveling PvP character (the one i'm playing the most now) is capped with Valor. Dailies done. Does that mean I'm done? Nope if I'm still on and a friend guildie or a random player who knows me from Warzones wants some help getting the daily done I'm there. 2-3 of us form up and BOOM watch out Warzone this win is ours.

 

Why do I do this? I got no problem helping. I've ran flashpoints even though my toon don't need the gear. Why? To help out. Sad fact is this is a dying action.

[Matte_Black]

Yes, it's already happening; some hardcore players are leaving, because this game isn't centered around them, and some of them think games HAVE to center around the hardcore, or they'll inexorably fail. This beief isn't unusual or surprising. Guilds full of hardcore players will tend to come and go together, and from their perspective, "everyone" is leaving. This isn't however true at all - just a selection bias at work.

 

I doubt BioWare would ever come out and say it directly but, I get the sense that they have designed the game to be played much less than hard-core players are accustomed to playing. My guess is that they think there could be a huge more-mainstream under-addressed market of gamers that are looking for a few hours of gaming a night as opposed to devoting the majority of their waking hours to it.

 

If such a market exists and can be tapped it could be much larger, consume content far slower and avoid competing directly with existing powerhouses catering to the established gamer paradigm. There are alot more people that can devote 4-12 hours a week in the world than 4-12 hours a day and you have to admit that the current gaming culture can be sort of similar to locusts in our consumption. I am not saying they are right in this thinking but, I can certainly understand the strategy.

[Mrs_Murder]

 

This remembers me of some folks playing Skyrim , going through the main story and then qq´ing in the forums that the game was a deception cause it was over too fast.

 

You cannot compare a game with so much content and freedom to SWTOR.

[Ironspeed]

Well, I do see the OP's point and like to think back at the thriving lovely days on Daggerspin (EU) in vanilla (before the mass free migrations due to overpoplulation).

 

anyway, we had something back there, a comunity a nice one, we had irc servers, guilds had some channel, server wide channel, we hung out, but funny enough, the hardcore people where the ones behind it.

 

They ran premade pvp, pug groups after farm status on pve content, they aranged the Gurubashi arena events.

 

They where the ones who spent most money on items other people farmed (I remeber herbing and farming those damn ichor things from Plaguelands for crafting epic items).

 

On top of that, we had the middle class group, the ones who wanted to join the hardcore raiders, they actually worked on getting better to be able to raid with the big boys.

 

Was the game bad for casuals, not at all, but it was _MORE_ challenging then TOR is, I remeber when I took my first step in a raid (friends guild that expanded due to some hardcore raiders stepping down and joining us).

 

Sadly that time is gone in WoW to, first time we saw it was in the end of Vanilla, 40 man raiding died, groups split up to form smaller teams for better progression on new servers, then came wotlk wich was pretty easy on normal, but thats not the point *nostalgia tripping here*

 

The point is, yes hardcore raiders invest more time in the comunity, from my experience, they want more, they go for it, they spend more cause they need more.

So far this game lacks that, say what you want, I dont mind my 15$ being spent on them or more challenging modes with better loot, heck add orange setpieces with augment open for the new nightmare modes, and let them all drop a token for the awesomest augment mods for all I care, or let it be so casual people can get a cash flow in by selling augmentations!

[Agenteusa]

You cannot compare a game with so much content and freedom to SWTOR.

 

I´m not comparing games. I was just setting it as an ironic example of no matter how big a game is or how much content´s in it, if you play too much or go through everything without stopping to pause and enjoy the rest the game has to offer you´re going to end the content pretty soon.

 

That was the point of that post.

 

Hope it´s cleared.

[Dumpiduke]

Please note that you are confusing having a lot of time, with being good. Finishing content before others does not mean in any way shape or form, that you are a quality player.

 

It also doesn't mean that people with a lot of time aren't good players. Often times, quality is just a byproduct of time and experience. Just like someone that is experienced in a particular career adds much more value to a company than a 'fresh out of the gate' graduate. This isn't the case for everyone, but for the most part, experience breeds quality.

 

I think the OP is making a very valid argument, although I think he should have left 'epeen' out of the title There are whole guilds that devote themselves to conquering the hardest and most insane grinds that MMO's throw at them. TOR offers three operation difficulties for a reason. Nightmare is supposed to cater to players that are seeking a challenge unparalleled. My guess is that this is why This is happening. They need to make sure that the content that they release will fit the bill for a variety of end game guilds. My suggestion to the OP, sign your guild up for testing and let Bioware know how you feel about the difficulty of the new operation. It will benefit everyone.

 

I don't think that anyone should be denied the right to enjoy the game that they pay for. That is what has made WoW so successful--their ability to cater to the masses. Bioware seeks to do the same.

Edited March 1, 2012 by Dumpiduke

[archifikoss]

You cannot compare a game with so much content and freedom to SWTOR.

 

Apart from being RPGs, both games are almost polar opposites in just about every aspect I still like both of them though.

Edited March 1, 2012 by archifikoss

[Smitar]

Exactly. Is it rocket science? No. Is it harder than soloing? Of course.

 

Many people find they cannot follow directions, be patient, work as a team. Its a different type of play that not every is able to grasp.

 

If it were so easy, everyone would do it. My old raiding guild only raided 2 days a week for 3 hours each day. Most self proclaimed casual players put in more time than that.

 

Can't quite grasp why the self proclaimed "casuals" have such a hard time with raiders or the "hardcore" players.

 

In MMOs "casuals" usually have minimal contact with raiders or the hardcore players...unless they actively seek out contact by joining a raid group where team work, coordination, following instructions, knowing your class, communication, proper spec/gems/enchants/rotation, addons, taking the time to familarize yourself with the fights, and showing up on time with your expendables are basic requirements. When you do none of these things, waste the time of an entire group of people, costing them time, effort, gold, and aggravation...you're shocked when told "u suk" and bounced from the group? Reality is, in that situation, you really do suck, and you're a rude, impolite, self-centered person who just jerked an entire raid group around.

 

As far as "numbers games" go...hate to break the news to you, but at hard levels, it generally IS a numbers game. When you're trying to beat an enrage timer, it requires a minimum dps output from each dedicated dps class. Heals throughput has to meet the requirement. You have to keep your specific buffs/de-buffs hot. Interrupt on your mark. Boss fights are choreographed dances, that often take months to learn...and you have to know the music, and you have to learn the dance steps. And just like a professional dancer, you have to spend the time learning how to dance at that level. But don't blame the other dancers when you can't be bothered. Sorry it's not easy or handed to you...but there it is.

 

They're called "hardcore" gamers for a reason. And no, they aren't spending their game time on the basic content...they're spending it in the raids learning the fights and beating their faces against bosses. In SWTOR, the raids are so pathetic, there is none of that. Biff boom bang, and you're done.

Edited March 1, 2012 by Smitar

[Matte_Black]

Apart from being RPGs, both games are almost polar opposites in just about every aspect I still like both of them though.

 

I think Skyrim is allowed to be alot more open-ended. I like SWTOR's stories but, ultimately, they need to land their storylines winthin a given target area that still fits the MMO elements of the game and future content.

[archifikoss]

I think Skyrim is allowed to be alot more open-ended. I like SWTOR's stories but, ultimately, they need to land their storylines winthin a given target area that still fits the MMO elements of the game and future content.

 

Well, there is a lot that Bioware can do to expand and improve their game, including tying in the story with the end-game aspect in well. I would even like it if they added more "sandbox-ish" end-game planets where players can carve out their own storyline (within the constraints of the game) and actually affect the world on a planetary scale.

 

I find it a waste that MMOs such as TOR have all these beautiful open worlds, but so little to do in them at max level... Spending ones time in instances feels pointless But it comes with the theme park MMO genre, I suppose...

[Matte_Black]

Can't quite grasp why the self proclaimed "casuals" have such a hard time with raiders or the "hardcore" players.

 

In MMOs "casuals" usually have minimal contact with raiders or the hardcore players...unless they actively seek out contact by joining a raid group where team work, coordination, following instructions, knowing your class, communication, proper spec/gems/enchants/rotation, taking the time to familarize yourself with the fights, and showing up on time with your expendables are basic requirements. When you do none of these things, waste the time of an entire group of people, costing them time, effort, gold, and aggravation...you're shocked when told "u suk" and bounced from the group? Reality is, in that situation, you really do suck, and you're a rude, impolite, self-centered person who just jerked an entire raid group around.

 

As far as "numbers games" go...hate to break the news to you, but at hard levels, it generally IS a numbers game. When you're trying to beat an enrage timer, it requires a minimum dps output from each dedicated dps class. Heals throughput has to meet the requirement. You have to keep your specific buffs/de-buffs hot. Interrupt on your mark. Boss fights are choreographed dances, that often take months to learn...and you have to know the music, and you have to learn the dance steps. And just like a professional dancer, you have to spend the time learning how to dance at that level. But don't blame the other dancers when you can't be bothered. Sorry it's not easy or handed to you...but there it is. They're called "hardcore" gamers for a reason.

 

You really have hit upon the difference. Some people play to perfect their play while others play to do what they want. You may love all the coordination and filling your role exactly as is optimal while another guy wants to play a particular character whose stats may not be optimized but represent the peronality in their head in manner that includes a certain lack of concentration that befits his idea of a recreational activity. I am in no way calling casual players dumb but, when we step up to the game some players are looking to intensely engage it while others are sort of looking to tone-out all the "have-tos" and cranked-up awareness that other specificall seek.

[JediElf]

Well, there is a lot that Bioware can do to expand and improve their game, including tying in the story with the end-game aspect in well.

 

I think it's really clever how your characters personal story isn't tied to an end game raid. This was one of the huuuge mistakes that WOW made. Once things end in a raid then players are forced to deal with people, that they might not want to deal with, or they get bored, locked out of end game, and un-subscribe. By keeping the raids 'self contained' in terms of personal plot lines, it allows players to experience their characters journey from beginning to...well to the end 'so far'.

 

Yes it's a mostly solo aspect, but I believe it's handled very well.

 

SW:TOR is a very different kind of MMO. Almost 'one of a kind' in the way that it's presented, and how it caters to a group of players (who really enjoy lore, story, and art), that before now, have never been fully catered to. This isn't a game that caters to the eSport/ePeen pro gamer crowd.

 

This is a game where finally, finally, it's the story that really matters, and I think for some pro gamers, that's a hard concept to grasp.

 

Perhaps this is a game where have the most purplez, really doesn't matter at all....for once.

Edited March 1, 2012 by JediElf

[Stupiddrummer]

Honestly, alot of people in this thread don't get it. The OP is right, this game needs more of the good Hardcore crowd, not the arrogant ******es that think they are the ****, but the ones that drive the websites, make theorycrafting, make videos, drive guilds and drive events! It's THESE people the ones that make the base of the community! Community makes MMOs guys! I mean there's a reason SWG limped for 4 more years after NGE... it was the very community that held the last line of flesh that game ever had.

 

The hardcore crowd factor however is something that not many people get, since it's really not seen as directly as other stuff. Like a poster at the second page mentioned. The reason WoW got so popular was cause the hardcores spread good word of mouth to the rest of the gaming world. Word of mouth is one of the most, if not THE most powerful advertising tool in the entire world of marketing and these people were doing it for free.

 

Hardcore people drive games guys.... but they need a reason to stay as well, and the good thing about it, it's it really doesn't have to be physical. It could be something behind the scenes like an actual "nightmare" mode in raiding. Something that poses a challenge and gives them the means to go after the bragging rights. Alot of people say "Hardcores need shinies nobody else can get to play" NO that mentality was created by WoW.... if you look up other MMOs before WoW, the hardcore playerbase went for stuff that wasn't even gear related.... sometimes it was extremely hard boss kills, or grinding alot of classes till you unlocked the ultimate class ( ala SWG ), or maybe grinding this mob so many times for a specific item, even at times taking a town or city for a period of time. It varied from game to game, and the neat thing about it was that it was optional to the casual player, as in 100% optional!

 

The OP is right, the hardcores are needed in the community as much as the casuals and a community without hardcore players is like a government without leadership. If this game loses it's hardcore community, good luck finding RP events in RP servers and good luck finding great guild leaders and that's just 1% of the things that will happen to this game when these guys leave. That's my 2 cents!

 

I've been following this thread, and it seems like the most relevant posts (like this one) are being overlooked.

 

not to make causation out of a correlation, but i would argue that the "anti-epeeners" in the thread also share an aversion to reading.

[archifikoss]

I think it's really clever how your characters personal story isn't tied to an end game raid. This was one of the huuuge mistakes that WOW made. Once things end in a raid then players are forced to deal with people, that they might not want to deal with, or they get bored, locked out of end game, and un-subscribe. By keeping the raids 'self contained' in terms of personal plot lines, it allows players to experience their characters journey from beginning to...well to the end 'so far'.

 

Yes it's a mostly solo aspect, but I believe it's handled very well.

 

SW:TOR is a very different kind of MMO. Almostt 'one of a kind' in the way that it's presented, and how it caters to a group of players (who really enjoy lore, story, and art), that before now, have never been fully catered to. This isn't a game that caters to the eSport/ePeen pro gamer crowd.

 

This is a game where finally, finally, it's the story that really matters, and I think for some pro gamers, that's a hard concept to grasp.

 

Perhaps this is a game where have the most purplez, really doesn't matter at all....for once.

 

Haven't reached end-game yet, but I don't think it needs to be necessarily tied into a raid (I hate raiding myself). It would be fun if all different types of end-game are alluded to though. I'd love it if it feels a bit like Freelancer after you complete the main story

[Saurakk]

Can't quite grasp why the self proclaimed "casuals" have such a hard time with raiders or the "hardcore" players.

 

In MMOs "casuals" usually have minimal contact with raiders or the hardcore players...unless they actively seek out contact by joining a raid group where team work, coordination, following instructions, knowing your class, communication, proper spec/gems/enchants/rotation, addons, taking the time to familarize yourself with the fights, and showing up on time with your expendables are basic requirements. When you do none of these things, waste the time of an entire group of people, costing them time, effort, gold, and aggravation...you're shocked when told "u suk" and bounced from the group? Reality is, in that situation, you really do suck, and you're a rude, impolite, self-centered person who just jerked an entire raid group around.

 

As far as "numbers games" go...hate to break the news to you, but at hard levels, it generally IS a numbers game. When you're trying to beat an enrage timer, it requires a minimum dps output from each dedicated dps class. Heals throughput has to meet the requirement. You have to keep your specific buffs/de-buffs hot. Interrupt on your mark. Boss fights are choreographed dances, that often take months to learn...and you have to know the music, and you have to learn the dance steps. And just like a professional dancer, you have to spend the time learning how to dance at that level. But don't blame the other dancers when you can't be bothered. Sorry it's not easy or handed to you...but there it is.

 

They're called "hardcore" gamers for a reason. And no, they aren't spending their game time on the basic content...they're spending it in the raids learning the fights and beating their faces against bosses. In SWTOR, the raids are so pathetic, there is none of that. Biff boom bang, and you're done.

 

Very well said, but many will gloss right over your valid points and tell you to stop waving your ePeen in their faces.

 

Many do not understand raiding in the way you describe it (reality). They see it as a bunch of no life people who group together due to an elitist attitude to gain phat lewts to show off on the Freeport docks.

 

My guild have fathers, mothers, doctors, lawyers, students, relatives, husbands and wives...all types of people...with jobs and lives and families...but we raided because it was the gameplay we enjoyed and it had a great social aspect to it also.

[Vindigore]

In MMOs "casuals" usually have minimal contact with raiders or the hardcore players...unless they actively seek out contact by joining a raid group where team work, coordination, following instructions, knowing your class, communication, proper spec/gems/enchants/rotation, addons, taking the time to familarize yourself with the fights, and showing up on time with your expendables are basic requirements. When you do none of these things, waste the time of an entire group of people, costing them time, effort, gold, and aggravation...you're shocked when told "u suk" and bounced from the group? Reality is, in that situation, you really do suck, and you're a rude, impolite, self-centered person who just jerked an entire raid group around.

 

As far as "numbers games" go...hate to break the news to you, but at hard levels, it generally IS a numbers game. When you're trying to beat an enrage timer, it requires a minimum dps output from each dedicated dps class. Heals throughput has to meet the requirement. You have to keep your specific buffs/de-buffs hot. Interrupt on your mark. Boss fights are choreographed dances, that often take months to learn...and you have to know the music, and you have to learn the dance steps. And just like a professional dancer, you have to spend the time learning how to dance at that level. But don't blame the other dancers when you can't be bothered. Sorry it's not easy or handed to you...but there it is.

 

They're called "hardcore" gamers for a reason. And no, they aren't spending their game time on the basic content...they're spending it in the raids learning the fights and beating their faces against bosses. In SWTOR, the raids are so pathetic, there is none of that. Biff boom bang, and you're done.

 

Been there, done that for 3 years (Vanilla-BC). The most moronic thing I ve ever done in my life. Farm for flasks, farm for pots, farm for reputation. Read countless guides, check builds, run instances to check them, run progress raids with less people to learn the mechanics / adjust the tactics, countless hours ventriloing about the boss fights, heck we even dismissed people with more than 100ms to be sure that lag isnt an issue. TONS of time wasted, for a bit of equipment that had +5/+15/whatever stat & the right to brag in IF that you did 1st server kill.

 

All about the "satisfaction of winning in a most difficult situation" or the "thrill of the kill" is utterly crap. 90% of us hardcores, wanted that extra shiny ultra-rare chest/weapon/item. If that wasnt true, then why all the drama over looting EACH frikking night?

 

Truth is that hardcore gamers are just egomaniac people with insane amounts of free time (doubt they have a job/life - i know i didnt these 3 years) that all they care about is showing off (the kill/the loot/the title). All I have to say is "if you dont like a game thats easy & accessible by more than just you and 20-30ppl in each server, the other MMO's are that ----> way".

 

I got Real Life to put me riddles and to bring me up impossible situations (how to pay the bills / how to raise my child etc.), I dont need a game to do the same. Games are meant to be played (play = relax & have fun with something). There is nothing fun in pressing the buttons in the A or B order (aka rotation) like a robot, heck there isnt any skill in that either. Learn a monkey to press 1-4-6-f-v and you ll have the same results.

 

I pay for something thats gonna relax me, make me laugh & take me from the daily stress for 1-2-3 hours/day. If gaming is more stressful that my RL (by adopting all the above "requirements for a challenging encounter" e.g need for flawless rotations, need for harder mechanics, need to be 100% prepared with pots-thus farm mats or gold- etc), why should I do it?

 

And a last comment about the choreography & the professional dancers. They GET PAID for putting up all that effort, I AM NOT - quite the opposite to be exact.

 

Sorry for the long post but I m fed up with all the whine posts of these "hardcore gamers".

[Matte_Black]

Well, there is a lot that Bioware can do to expand and improve their game, including tying in the story with the end-game aspect in well. I would even like it if they added more "sandbox-ish" end-game planets where players can carve out their own storyline (within the constraints of the game) and actually affect the world on a planetary scale.

 

I find it a waste that MMOs such as TOR have all these beautiful open worlds, but so little to do in them at max level... Spending ones time in instances feels pointless But it comes with the theme park MMO genre, I suppose...

 

My vision for the game's future would be more about such sand-box areas where we could flesh out our characters' stories than harder and harder challenges, competition and higlighting the role of stats. To me, SWTOR is a great casual story-based foundation that can be built on successfully as opposed to trying to compete badly as a hard-core game against products much better suited to that role.

 

I bought it realizing it would not be a great hard-core game but strong as a relaxed casual diversion and , frankly, hope they don't change what I bought in order to chase unlikely success as a different type of game.

[Saurakk]

I think it's really clever how your characters personal story isn't tied to an end game raid. This was one of the huuuge mistakes that WOW made. Once things end in a raid then players are forced to deal with people, that they might not want to deal with, or they get bored, locked out of end game, and un-subscribe. By keeping the raids 'self contained' in terms of personal plot lines, it allows players to experience their characters journey from beginning to...well to the end 'so far'.

 

Yes it's a mostly solo aspect, but I believe it's handled very well.

 

SW:TOR is a very different kind of MMO. Almost 'one of a kind' in the way that it's presented, and how it caters to a group of players (who really enjoy lore, story, and art), that before now, have never been fully catered to. This isn't a game that caters to the eSport/ePeen pro gamer crowd.

 

This is a game where finally, finally, it's the story that really matters, and I think for some pro gamers, that's a hard concept to grasp.

 

Perhaps this is a game where have the most purplez, really doesn't matter at all....for once.

 

Actually many of the raid encounters and dungeons have very interesting stories behind them....though they are much easily overlooked in the non-story based games.

[JediElf]

Haven't reached end-game yet, but I don't think it needs to be necessarily tied into a raid (I hate raiding myself). It would be fun if all different types of end-game are alluded to though. I'd love it if it feels a bit like Freelancer after you complete the main story

 

Ohh that wold be cool! While you main story continues you could do 'odd jobs' aka. 'epic quest lines' in which the story ends in a raid, or a nightmare mode encounter. That wold be brilliant, and it would balance both...well.... the apparent need for 'epicz', and the need to continue the rich solo story line, for people that don't want to raid.

 

Hell they could even make the epic quests all in text. I've read that most of the ePeen/Hardcores spacebar though the dialogue anyways. That would free up money, for the voice acting, in the main quest.

Edited March 1, 2012 by JediElf