Why the Darkside Vastly more powerful than The Light

[ItchyThePenguin]

Wow even when presented by facts fan boys and jedi lovers cannot admit the truth....

 

 

This is like arguing with Christians, despite facts they like to "believe"

 

 

First off Sidious was not even close to the most powerful Sith Lord, if GL words are law then so should his comment that the dark side is stronger which is wisely ignored by the jedi players here.

 

Secondly exactly where does it state this era force users are weaker??? If anything they were stronger as much was lost over the years.

 

As for Luke being the strongest jedi is just plain retarded, his father was the chosen one, and if you based your logic on the skywalker family growing stronger down the line than the strongest force user would be Darth Caedus hands down.

 

 

In any case as the Wise Sith Lord Darth Jesus has said: You will join me or burn forever.

 

So, if the Dark Side is truly stronger, as you claim it to be, can you please explain to me why they always lose? Surely if they were sooo much more powerful they would have no problem dominating followers of the Light side, no?

 

P.S. Religion has no relevance to this discussion. The least you could do is keep your own thread on task.

[Sylriana]

The second most powerful sith in the Empire gets jobbed in his own sanctuary fully prepared by a non-force user ( a level 30 too! )...

 

So the dark side can't be that special.

[Rayla_Felana]

Wow even when presented by facts fan boys and jedi lovers cannot admit the truth....

 

Humorous it is then, that you are obviously biased towards the Dark Side.

 

This is like arguing with Christians, despite facts they like to "believe"

 

That is inflammatory and discriminatory, I'd suggest editing that out before being flagged.

 

First off Sidious was not even close to the most powerful Sith Lord, if GL words are law then so should his comment that the dark side is stronger which is wisely ignored by the jedi players here.

 

His feats in the EU alone make him more powerful than any Sith Lord, You name me a Sith, I will give you the facts to show he was more powerful.

 

Also, that exact statement doesn't state what it is stronger at, just that it is, you assume it means in the force as a whole, Darth Bane himself stated that the Light is stronger in some aspects, as is the dark side in others.

 

Secondly exactly where does it state this era force users are weaker??? If anything they were stronger as much was lost over the years.

 

Lucas and many many other sources have confirmed that the Golden Age of the Jedi Order was during the Rise of the Empire/The Clone Wars, not only that, the feats and power of the Jedi of that era, surpass any from before, afterwards Luke Skywalker himself went on to become the most powerful Jedi of all time, his feats alone prove this, he gained the rank of Grand Master of the Jedi Order and many sources, not just Lucas have proven he was the most powerful ever, 200% of Sidious.

 

As for Luke being the strongest jedi is just plain retarded, his father was the chosen one, and if you based your logic on the skywalker family growing stronger down the line than the strongest force user would be Darth Caedus hands down.

 

His father was the chosen one, he had the potential to become the most powerful force user of all time, but he fell to the dark side and sustained injuries and a new mental complex that meant he could only become eight tenths as powerful as Sidious, he was meant to become 200%.

 

Luke was the catalyst Anakin needed to fulfill the prophecy of The Chosen One, Luke then went onto become Anakin's potential realised, he became what his father was meant to be, also Luke defeated Caedus over and over again, he would have killed him himself, but he knew if he did he would be taken to a dark place and quite possibly fall to the dark side, after all, Caedus had murdered Luke's wife Mara-jade.

 

My answers in blue.

[Inarai]

Positive emotions don't fuel the dark side, only negative emotions do.

 

So, what would they fuel?

[tyranusdarec]

The best example of the Darkside being stronger can be seen in this game,

 

Shatela shan the Grand Master of the Jedi Order and perhaps the strongest jedi in THIS era nearly got killed by Darth Malgus in the trailer Returned. She only survived by a saber throw from her MAster and even then Darth Malgus slaughters her MAster and His own by himself

 

 

ROund two: the trailer HOPE

 

Darth Malgus is blown to hell from a persistant trooper, despite this he severs statela shans saber and nearly kills her. Hes then blown up again and finally defeated but survives.

 

 

Now Darth Malgus was a powerful Sithlord for sure but pales in comparison to Darth Viatate the Emperor Who crushed and absored a planet of Sithlords and achieved Immortality.

 

 

IF Darth Malgus has proven to be more powerful than the Greatets Jedi in this era, What comparion can there be when Malgus is nothing to the Most powerful SITH, the Emperor?

 

Thus the Darkside is STONGER.

 

 

The Darkside IS STRONGER, the only disagreements are from fan boys or players who are mad they choose a jedi.

 

Darth Sion was immortal he could not die in battle, the only way he was defeated was to be convinced to let go of his pain.

 

NO JEDI EVER had such a power.

 

Darth Nihiliuos DEVOURED ENTIRE frackin planets, he devoured thousands of jedi without even needing to draw his lightsaber. he was only defeated for his "connection" or love for his apprentice, in other words his last straw of humanity. He was the Dark Side made manifest.

 

NO JEDI EVER came close to such a power

 

 

Darth Revan a Jedi Master turned to the Dark Side and became MORE POWERFUL, had he remained a Jedi he would be too weak and indeed the republic would have remained too weak too resist the madalorians or the True Sith Empire.

 

Lastly look at all the fights in the movies,

 

Darth Maul is taken down by TWO jedis, and he kills one

 

Darth Sidious kills three Jedi Masters and draws with Mace although it can be argued he lost its very obvious it was a ruse to turn Anakin to the Dark Side.

 

Count Dooku defeats anakin and obi wan and holds his own againt yoda,

It then takes a much more experence obi wan and anakin to beat him and ONLY after anakin used his anger (darkside) to overwhelm him.

 

Quoting Yoda that its more seductive but equal is not accurate as he was a champion of the Light, Had he admited it was stronger Luke would probally just joined his Father and Ruled the Galaxy as Father and Son.

 

Jedi have temptation to go towards the Darkside because ite more powerful, Do Sith Lords have any such temptation to learn from the Light? No because they are more powerful and do not require inferior and weaker arts.

 

Personally I dont think one side is stronger then the other. Its all about balance. If you look at the timeline. There are periods where the darkside is in charge and other periods where lightside is in charge. Balance. Both sides are equal.

 

As for the fights you describe with multiple opponents against one opponent. That can be explained as well. I studied martial arts for years. And I learned. If your facing multiple opponents the odds are still even. That doesnt make sense right? Well if you got 3 people attacking you, they not only have to try to put you down but they also have to try to avoid hurting each other.

 

Look at the fight between the Emperor and the multiple jedi in his office. They are in a confined space. They have to watch where they swing. They could hit one of their fellow jedi. Palpatine doesnt have that problem. He can slash away and will most likely hit someone. Until he got it down to just him and Windu the odds were still even. It wasnt until it was one on one that you could see Windu clearly had the advantage. And had Palpatine's little trick not worked he would have died or been captured.

 

The fight between the Emperor and Yoda. Sorry but Yoda had him dead to rights there. Able to capture the force lightning? Yoda was more powerful there. It was only sheer luck that it ended in stale mate.

 

So no darkside is not more powerful then lightside. Nor is lightside more powerful then darkside. Balance my young apprentice. That is the way of things.

 

Tyr

[Rayla_Felana]

So, what would they fuel?

 

They don't fuel anything, negative emotions are used unnaturally to fuel the Dark side, giving them their power.

[Rayla_Felana]

The fight between the Emperor and Yoda. Sorry but Yoda had him dead to rights there. Able to capture the force lightning? Yoda was more powerful there. It was only sheer luck that it ended in stale mate.

 

Actually, I must correct this, the RotS novel clearly states Yoda could never defeat Sidious, he never stood a chance, for many many reasons I cannot be bothered typing out.

[Inarai]

They don't fuel anything, negative emotions are used unnaturally to fuel the Dark side, giving them their power.

 

According too..?

 

See, it's a bit of a sticking point for me. The Sith Code doesn't refer to negative emotions, merely PASSION - not a negative thing (and TOR brings us a Sith who explicitly relies on more positive passions in the Knight storyline). It certainly seems like both sides actually wind up being limited by their dogmatic approach.

[Rayla_Felana]

According too..?

 

See, it's a bit of a sticking point for me. The Sith Code doesn't refer to negative emotions, merely PASSION - not a negative thing (and TOR brings us a Sith who explicitly relies on more positive passions in the Knight storyline). It certainly seems like both sides actually wind up being limited by their dogmatic approach.

 

There are so many canonical sources that support this I wouldn't know where to point you to, but the Dark Side and the Sith are not one in the same, a Sith can draw off of the force as a whole, so can any other force user, such as a Jedi can draw off of the dark side.

 

To draw power off of the Dark Side you must give into it and used negative emotion, fear, passion, hatred, anger all of these lead to the Dark Side, they give you a way to draw off of the Dark side and become more powerful, as it is simply easier and quicker to become more powerful.

 

The path to the Dark Side, negative emotion, leads to the rage and fury that most Dark Siders thrive on, and are more usually than not consumed by, Force Users can feel emotions in a stronger way than most, as it can shape their very identity and change them, without your passions and negative emotions, you simply aren't drawing on the Dark Side, that is how the Dark side works.

[Inarai]

There are so many canonical sources that support this I wouldn't know where to point you to, but the Dark Side and the Sith are not one in the same, a Sith can draw off of the force as a whole, so can any other force user, such as a Jedi can draw off of the dark side.

 

To draw power off of the Dark Side you must give into it and used negative emotion, fear, passion, hatred, anger all of these lead to the Dark Side, they give you a way to draw off of the Dark side and become more powerful, as it is simply easier and quicker to become more powerful.

 

The path to the Dark Side, negative emotion, leads to the rage and fury that most Dark Siders thrive on, and are more usually than not consumed by, Force Users can feel emotions in a stronger way than most, as it can shape their very identity and change them, without your passions and negative emotions, you simply aren't drawing on the Dark Side, that is how the Dark side works.

 

You're not actually answering the question. I could follow from this logic and say that someone using positive emotion/passions would be Light Sided, I suppose.

Edited February 28, 2012 by Inarai

[Aralt]

Wow even when presented by facts fan boys and jedi lovers cannot admit the truth....

 

 

This is like arguing with Christians, despite facts they like to "believe"

 

 

First off Sidious was not even close to the most powerful Sith Lord, if GL words are law then so should his comment that the dark side is stronger which is wisely ignored by the jedi players here.

 

Secondly exactly where does it state this era force users are weaker??? If anything they were stronger as much was lost over the years.

 

As for Luke being the strongest jedi is just plain retarded, his father was the chosen one, and if you based your logic on the skywalker family growing stronger down the line than the strongest force user would be Darth Caedus hands down.

 

 

In any case as the Wise Sith Lord Darth Jesus has said: You will join me or burn forever.

 

Well I was trying to help you, but you are more trolling then debating and bringing up religion is very low, I now have no respect for you, and you also lost many allies who would have helped you, I hope on day you grow up.

Edited February 28, 2012 by Aralt

[Rayla_Felana]

You're not actually answering the question directly.

 

How am I not answering the question? I just did.

 

if you don't believe me, simply go and look for the facts yourself, they are there to be read, to be honest, I don't really care, take my posts as what you will.

 

EDIT: I see you are assuming that Light Siders channel the force in the same way the Dark Siders do, a dark sider abuses the force, bends it to their will and use their aggressive emotions to channel power, the Dark Side.

 

A Light Sider lets the force flow through them, they become an extension of the will of the force, instead of imposing their own like a Dark Sider would, they don't use the force, instead they let it guide them, not letting their own feelings or emotions cloud their thoughts.

 

It is why the Dark Side is so easy to fall to, all you need to do is think the wrong way, act the wrong way, and you could fall to the Dark side.

 

Hell if you want some canonical proof, Darth Sidious tempts Luke with this the entire time urging him to use his anger, his hate, let his emotions take over, A light sider thinks about things, letting the force guide them, it tells them what to do, where as a Sith channels their anger, fear and hatred, their emotions, to dominate and become more powerful.

Edited February 28, 2012 by Rayla_Felana

[Ygdrasel]

The light side ALWAYS wins

 

The light side is only "more powerful" and always wins because the average viewer demands a black/white morality (hence Sith and Jedi being shoehorned under those respective labels, despite there being a gray area) and a happy ending (also demanded by the average viewer) requires the "white" side to win. The light side being stronger is more an informed attribute born of media conventions than a fact based in reason.

 

 

If not for it being what viewers (and creators, for that matter) are accustomed to (and thus more reliable/profitable), it would be different. Realistically, the dark side would destroy the light, if only via their lack of restraint in war (Jedi would hold back a great deal of power if, say, civilians were around) and greater powers (via "corruption" of the Force).

 

 

And this is a bit off-topic but speaking of ridiculous media-convention-and-viewer-expectation-induced BS in Star Wars: According to Lucas, "bringing balance to the Force" means eliminating the dark side of it (as Vader inevitably did). Does he not know the meaning of "balance" or something?

Edited February 28, 2012 by Ygdrasel

[Ygdrasel]

 

they become an extension of the will of the force

 

Since when do a magical disembodied force and some blood-swimming microbes with the inexplicable ability to enable harnessing of said force have a will?

 

Both sides bend the Force to their will. I've seen plenty of Jedi employ the Force to retrieve their lightsabers, jam doors, and do all sorts of other things that are their will.

 

I mean, I guess it could be argued that it was always the will of the force and it aligning with the Jedi's will was always just a really lucky coincidence...But I can't in all good common sense buy that.

Edited February 28, 2012 by Ygdrasel

[Rayla_Felana]

Since when do a magical disembodied force and some blood-swimming microbes with the inexplicable ability to enable harnessing of said force have a will?

 

Both sides bend the Force to their will. I've seen plenty of Jedi employ the Force to retrieve their lightsabers, jam doors, and do all sorts of other things that are their will.

 

I mean, I guess it could be argued that it was always the will of the force and it aligning with the Jedi's will was always just a really lucky coincidence...But I can't in all good common sense buy that.

 

Whether or not you 'buy it', it's canon.

 

These aren't just my own opinionated ramblings, they are all things I have read from the canon.

[WNxAbaddon]

Even Luke fell to the darkside.

 

The truth is no side is stronger than the other, sith kick repubs backside, repubs fight back, nearly kill the sith and they fight back, rinse and repeat.

 

No side is ever truly beat, no side ever wins, just like this topic.

[Ygdrasel]

Whether or not you 'buy it', it's canon.

 

These aren't just my own opinionated ramblings, they are all things I have read from the canon.

 

I know it's from canon. That doesn't really change much as being canon doesn't make it immune to the scrutiny of common sense. When the slightest bit of thought can disprove canon, canon becomes BS. And BS is not a worthy thing to cite in any debate.

 

I'm just saying, the canon is really kind of completely stupid (and in this case, nonsensical) sometimes. This is one of those times.

 

 

But in the end, it doesn't matter whether the light side or dark side is stronger because, as presented in the majority of Star Wars material, both are lies. And lies never win anything except when they do.

Edited February 28, 2012 by Ygdrasel

[Daffduck]

I for one will take Yoda´s word over any.. any day. You can match the dialemma up like this;

Darkside holds the hydrogen-bomb and they use it at every chance they get.. thats why you have so many references..

Light side holds the atomic-bomb.. but they have the strenght to never go as far as using it.

 

 

Yoda vs Sidious ( Sidious being the most powerfull Sith ever, being able to enslave a whole galaxy while hiding from a fully operational jedi counsal + drawing "the chosen one" to the darkside ) ... yet still here :

 

at 3:46-3:50 you can clearly tell from the look in his eyes..

"Is that all you got biiatch!!? "

 

(^^,)

Edited February 28, 2012 by Daffduck

[Ygdrasel]

I for one will take Yoda´s word over any.. any day. You can match the dialemma up like this;

Darkside holds the hydrogen-bomb and they use it at every chance they get.. thats why you have so many references..

Light side holds the atomic-bomb.. but they have the strenght to never go as far as using it.

 

 

Yoda vs Sidious ( Sidious being the most powerfull Sith ever, being able to enslave a whole galaxy while hiding from a fully operational jedi counsal + drawing "the chosen one" to the darkside ) ... yet still here :

 

at 3:46-3:50 you can clearly tell from the look in his eyes.. "Is that all you got *****!?"

 

(^^,)

 

Bit of a nitpick here but his drawing "the chosen one" to the dark side was more a matter of prophecy than his ability. It was from the dark side that Vader would eventually destroy the dark side and "balance" (in quotes because Lucas is clearly uneducated about what the word means) the Force.

 

Also, way to exclude America from the light side. Guess now, I really do have to move to Canada...

Edited February 28, 2012 by Ygdrasel

[Girdeux]

I for one will take Yoda´s word over any.. any day. You can match the dialemma up like this;

Darkside holds the hydrogen-bomb and they use it at every chance they get.. thats why you have so many references..

Light side holds the atomic-bomb.. but they have the strenght to never go as far as using it.

 

 

Yoda vs Sidious ( Sidious being the most powerfull Sith ever, being able to enslave a whole galaxy while hiding from a fully operational jedi counsal + drawing "the chosen one" to the darkside ) ... yet still here :

 

at 3:46-3:50 you can clearly tell from the look in his eyes..

"Is that all you got biiatch!!? "

 

(^^,)

 

Wrong. Yoda is flat out wrong. If he was right he wouldnt be sitting in a swamp and Obi-wan camping out in a mudhut with the jedi in almost extinction. Lucas says the Dark side is more powerful which makes The Dark side the most powerful.

 

End of discussion.

Edited February 28, 2012 by Girdeux

[Ygdrasel]

Wrong. Yoda is flat out wrong. If he was right he wouldnt be sitting in a swamp and Obi-wan camping out in a mudhut with the jedi in almost extinction. Lucas says the Dark side is more powerful which makes The Dark side the most powerful.

 

End of discussion.

 

Cite your source.

 

Common sense says the dark side is more powerful but when has Lucas ever said the same?

[Athorian]

All I'm reading here is people arguing their opinion and ignoring facts.

I prefer the dark side and have not done research, but if Lucas says light is more powerful than dark, then the conversation is kinda over.

 

In short it seems like the dark side is A LOT of power REALLY fast, but you hit a limit.

and the light side gets power more slowly, but never reaches a limit.

Entirely just my own opinion tho

Edited February 28, 2012 by Athorian

[Girdeux]

Cite your source.

 

Common sense says the dark side is more powerful but when has Lucas ever said the same?

 

You must be new here.

 

LUCAS: 'to become the most powerful Jedi, and the only way you can really do that is to go to the Dark side because the Dark side is more powerful. If you want the ultimate power you really have to go to the stronger side, which is the Dark side'

Edited February 28, 2012 by Girdeux

[Inarai]

You must be new here.

 

LUCAS: 'to become the most powerful Jedi, and the only way you can really do that is to go to the Dark side because the Dark side is more powerful. If you want the ultimate power you really have to go to the stronger side, which is the Dark side'

 

Do you know what the word cite means?

[Inarai]

I know it's from canon. That doesn't really change much as being canon doesn't make it immune to the scrutiny of common sense. When the slightest bit of thought can disprove canon, canon becomes BS. And BS is not a worthy thing to cite in any debate.

 

I'm just saying, the canon is really kind of completely stupid (and in this case, nonsensical) sometimes. This is one of those times.

 

It's the "reality" under debate. If you think that's BS, well, you shouldn't be wasting your time on it.