ZorakNasha Posted March 2, 2012 Share Posted March 2, 2012 1&2: That's pure speculation. You can't definitively say that. You can infer that, but that's your opinion, not fact. 3: I won't dispute that. That was very clearly a decisive victory for the Sith. As for classes and whatnot, I don't really believe that BioWare established the game with an intentional bias toward the Sith. I think it just so happened that the Republic drew the short end of the stick and I'm confident, that with time, the classes and everything will balance out. Animations and story lines are matters of subjective experience. One story or animation cannot be "cooler" or "more interesting" than another and then stated as fact. That's all opinion. I, for one, happen to like the Consular animations for the most part and the story isn't so bad either (Though I do enjoy the Inquisitor story more than the Consular story). Fair enough. Though I think that if the interference in return and hope was taken out, he would have been victorious. What I will say about the light side of the force vs the dark side (and Jedi vs Sith) is how in Hope and Return the Jedi Satele had help. This shows a bit of comradeship that the Sith/Darkside lack. So in this case the light side is stronger. What's weird about you is that you won't admit that Malgus had Satele twice. Okay in Hope you could say that she would have broke the killing thrust that she was blocking and found another way to try to defeat him. I would say that she was done (which is why there needed to be an interference). If she would have broke the block and armed herself somehow with another lightsaber, he still would have overpowered her I think. In Return he clearly would have had her head, no question about it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrandonSM Posted March 2, 2012 Share Posted March 2, 2012 This thread is very biased. If your going to compare SIth and Jedi, compare them at their best. Take the strongest Sith and put him against the strongest Jedi. Sidous vs Luke. Luke wins hands down. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ItchyThePenguin Posted March 2, 2012 Share Posted March 2, 2012 (edited) Fair enough. Though I think that if the interference in return and hope was taken out, he would have been victorious. What I will say about the light side of the force vs the dark side (and Jedi vs Sith) is how in Hope and Return the Jedi Satele had help. This shows a bit of comradeship that the Sith/Darkside lack. So in this case the light side is stronger. What's weird about you is that you won't admit that Malgus had Satele twice. Okay in Hope you could say that she would have broke the killing thrust that she was blocking and found another way to try to defeat him. I would say that she was done (which is why there needed to be an interference). If she would have broke the block and armed herself somehow with another lightsaber, he still would have overpowered her I think. In Return he clearly would have had her head, no question about it. Well, I won't agree or disagree to that. Frankly, it's kind of a pointless argument to have. We can make conjecture 'til the cows come home, but it won't amount to anything. Sure, Malgus could have taken Satele out in Return and Hope, but the fact of the matter is that he didn't. I won't attribute that to one side of the Force being stronger than the other -- I'm just saying that he didn't. Basing such judgments of the Force on individual confrontations is, well, silly, at best. I maintain that neither side of the Force is stronger than the other. Since we're talking in terms of power I would say that a Jedi could be more powerful than a Sith and vice versa. It all comes down to the Sith/Jedi in question, really. That's part of the reason why neither the Jedi nor the Sith can maintain constant control of the galaxy. The balance of power is always fluctuating in the Star Wars universe and that's why I don't think one side is "stronger" than the other. If one side were truly stronger than the other then wouldn't that side be able to continuously win? Wouldn't that side be able to hold the galaxy under their control indefinitely? Whether it be the Light or Dark side of the Force? Edited March 2, 2012 by ItchyThePenguin D'oh! I meant "'til the cows come home" not "'til the comes come home"! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darth_Malevolent Posted March 2, 2012 Share Posted March 2, 2012 (edited) George Lucas has stated balance in the force was created with the destruction of the Sith, the dark side is a cancer in the force, normally it doesn't effect the balance, but the Banite Sith did, Sidious had completely blinded the Jedi and clouded the force in darkness, Balance was restored with the death of Vader and Sidious. Now Sith are a cancer?.... who's not biased here? lol. When there is light there is always dark, you are working with a lopsided scale lady. Anakin brings balance to the force by killing all the Jedi in the temple, 2 Jedi, 2 Sith.... then he fulfills the next part of the prophecy, to destroy the Sith, he does this. But the balance meant was when he killed all the Jedi. In EP 1, Mace Windu says "You mean the one who will bring balance to the force, you believe it's this boy?" nothing was said about destroying the Sith. It was only in ep 3 did they tack on to destroy the Sith. Those two things though together in a sentence are separate things, He brought balance to the force and destroyed the Sith, eventually. Edited March 2, 2012 by Darth_Malevolent Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ItchyThePenguin Posted March 2, 2012 Share Posted March 2, 2012 This thread is very biased. If your going to compare SIth and Jedi, compare them at their best. Take the strongest Sith and put him against the strongest Jedi. Sidous vs Luke. Luke wins hands down. Now, now. Don't jump to conclusions so quickly. Define what you mean by "best"? You need to able to define that in a measurable way otherwise the term "best" is purely subjective. Secondly (and I'm playing Devil's advocate here), I would argue that you can't say the Light side is stronger because Luke was the strongest Jedi and Sidious was the strongest Sith. I would say that perhaps, in the future, someone would come along and be ten times as strong as Sidious (or whatever hypothetical amount would make him/her stronger than Luke ever was) and then by your own logic the Dark Side would be stronger (because this new Sith would be stronger than Luke who you say is the strongest Jedi). Luke and Sidious are not necessarily the strongest users of either side of the Force. That could, technically, change. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JeStrickJ Posted March 2, 2012 Share Posted March 2, 2012 The best example of the Darkside being stronger can be seen in this game, Shatela shan the Grand Master of the Jedi Order and perhaps the strongest jedi in THIS era nearly got killed by Darth Malgus in the trailer Returned. She only survived by a saber throw from her MAster and even then Darth Malgus slaughters her MAster and His own by himself ROund two: the trailer HOPE Darth Malgus is blown to hell from a persistant trooper, despite this he severs statela shans saber and nearly kills her. Hes then blown up again and finally defeated but survives. Now Darth Malgus was a powerful Sithlord for sure but pales in comparison to Darth Viatate the Emperor Who crushed and absored a planet of Sithlords and achieved Immortality. IF Darth Malgus has proven to be more powerful than the Greatets Jedi in this era, What comparion can there be when Malgus is nothing to the Most powerful SITH, the Emperor? Thus the Darkside is STONGER. The Darkside IS STRONGER, the only disagreements are from fan boys or players who are mad they choose a jedi. Darth Sion was immortal he could not die in battle, the only way he was defeated was to be convinced to let go of his pain. NO JEDI EVER had such a power. Darth Nihiliuos DEVOURED ENTIRE frackin planets, he devoured thousands of jedi without even needing to draw his lightsaber. he was only defeated for his "connection" or love for his apprentice, in other words his last straw of humanity. He was the Dark Side made manifest. NO JEDI EVER came close to such a power Darth Revan a Jedi Master turned to the Dark Side and became MORE POWERFUL, had he remained a Jedi he would be too weak and indeed the republic would have remained too weak too resist the madalorians or the True Sith Empire. Lastly look at all the fights in the movies, Darth Maul is taken down by TWO jedis, and he kills one Darth Sidious kills three Jedi Masters and draws with Mace although it can be argued he lost its very obvious it was a ruse to turn Anakin to the Dark Side. Count Dooku defeats anakin and obi wan and holds his own againt yoda, It then takes a much more experence obi wan and anakin to beat him and ONLY after anakin used his anger (darkside) to overwhelm him. Quoting Yoda that its more seductive but equal is not accurate as he was a champion of the Light, Had he admited it was stronger Luke would probally just joined his Father and Ruled the Galaxy as Father and Son. Jedi have temptation to go towards the Darkside because ite more powerful, Do Sith Lords have any such temptation to learn from the Light? No because they are more powerful and do not require inferior and weaker arts. It's Satele. Not Shatela, or Statela... Also, when Malgus almost killed her in Return.... she was a padawan. -_- Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wolfninjajedi Posted March 2, 2012 Share Posted March 2, 2012 Now, now. Don't jump to conclusions so quickly. Define what you mean by "best"? You need to able to define that in a measurable way otherwise the term "best" is purely subjective. Secondly (and I'm playing Devil's advocate here), I would argue that you can't say the Light side is stronger because Luke was the strongest Jedi and Sidious was the strongest Sith. I would say that perhaps, in the future, someone would come along and be ten times as strong as Sidious (or whatever hypothetical amount would make him/her stronger than Luke ever was) and then by your own logic the Dark Side would be stronger (because this new Sith would be stronger than Luke who you say is the strongest Jedi). Luke and Sidious are not necessarily the strongest users of either side of the Force. That could, technically, change. There cannot be any jedi or sith stronger then Luke or Sidious, Lucas himself has stated they are the strongest jedi/sith ever. So there cannot be anyone stronger, the bar is already set and locked. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rayla_Felana Posted March 2, 2012 Share Posted March 2, 2012 Now Sith are a cancer?.... who's not biased here? lol. When there is light there is always dark, you are working with a lopsided scale lady. Anakin brings balance to the force by killing all the Jedi in the temple, 2 Jedi, 2 Sith.... then he fulfills the next part of the prophecy, to destroy the Sith, he does this. But the balance meant was when he killed all the Jedi. In EP 1, Mace Windu says "You mean the one who will bring balance to the force, you believe it's this boy?" nothing was said about destroying the Sith. It was only in ep 3 did they tack on to destroy the Sith. Those two things though together in a sentence are separate things, He brought balance to the force and destroyed the Sith, eventually. You are perpetuating the thought that this is my opinion, no, it is George Lucas' own words, seriously, you need to sort out your lore. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ItchyThePenguin Posted March 2, 2012 Share Posted March 2, 2012 There cannot be any jedi or sith stronger then Luke or Sidious, Lucas himself has stated they are the strongest jedi/sith ever. So there cannot be anyone stronger, the bar is already set and locked. Really? He did? I don't suppose you could cite that, could you? And I'm just curious about the rationale behind that. I mean, who's to say that some other Jedi or Sith could come along in the future and be stronger than either Luke or Sidious respectively? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rayla_Felana Posted March 2, 2012 Share Posted March 2, 2012 (edited) Really? He did? I don't suppose you could cite that, could you? And I'm just curious about the rationale behind that. I mean, who's to say that some other Jedi or Sith could come along in the future and be stronger than either Luke or Sidious respectively? In the ESB commentary, he confirms Darth Sidious is the strongest Sith of all time. I can't quite remember Luke's statement, but i know there is one. Basically, Sidious is the most powerful Sith, Luke the most powerful Jedi, Abeloth or Jacen Solo(Oneness version) the most powerful Force manifestation ever. Edited March 2, 2012 by Rayla_Felana Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darth_Malevolent Posted March 2, 2012 Share Posted March 2, 2012 (edited) You are perpetuating the thought that this is my opinion, no, it is George Lucas' own words, seriously, you need to sort out your lore. Eh, yet again your missing my point, and doubt you'd ever get it... George Lucas though the creator, is hardly a credible source based upon his constant changing of canon, contradictory statements during interviews, and inconsistencies he caused in creating the prequels; I don't need to sort out anything, think you need to get your head out of the sand Edited March 2, 2012 by Darth_Malevolent Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrandonSM Posted March 2, 2012 Share Posted March 2, 2012 Eh, yet again your missing my point, and doubt you'd ever get it... George Lucas though the creator, is hardly a credible source based upon his constant changing of canon, contradictory statements, and inconsistencies he caused in creating the prequels; I don't need to sort out anything, think you need to get your head out of the sand GL's word is canon, the authors have to follow it. Leland Chee enforces it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rayla_Felana Posted March 2, 2012 Share Posted March 2, 2012 Eh, yet again your missing my point, and doubt you'd ever get it... George Lucas though the creator, is hardly a credible source based upon his constant changing of canon, contradictory statements, and inconsistencies he caused in creating the prequels; I don't need to sort out anything, think you need to get your head out of the sand Your opinion on the matter, My opinion on the matter, even Leland Chee's opinion on the matter is worth absolutely nothing in comparison to George Lucas' statements, whether any of us like it or not, he IS the Word of God canon, anything and everything he states is ultimate canon fact, it is as simple as that, 'get over it or get out' as they say. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ItchyThePenguin Posted March 2, 2012 Share Posted March 2, 2012 In the ESB commentary, he confirms Darth Sidious is the strongest Sith of all time. I can't quite remember Luke's statement, but i know there is one. Basically, Sidious is the most powerful Sith, Luke the most powerful Jedi, Abeloth or Jacen Solo(Oneness version) the most powerful Force manifestation ever. Well, I can accept that Sidious is the strongest Sith of all time and the same goes for Luke. But, am I just way off base to say that it's feasible for some other Jedi/Sith to exist such that they were more powerful than either Luke or Sidious? I understand that no such character exists, but is it possible? Or am I just missing something? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darth_Malevolent Posted March 2, 2012 Share Posted March 2, 2012 (edited) Your opinion on the matter, My opinion on the matter, even Leland Chee's opinion on the matter is worth absolutely nothing in comparison to George Lucas' statements, whether any of us like it or not, he IS the Word of God canon, anything and everything he states is ultimate canon fact, it is as simple as that, 'get over it or get out' as they say. Nah, Im staying here, because George Lucas is an idea man, not a good director, not a good writer, he's stated these facts in an interview. And the fact he doesn't wish to allow anyone to have a character more powerful than Sidious or Luke, is the equivalent to a child taking his toys away and not letting anyone play with them... and once again, for a person who's contributed probably less than a percent or two to the total lore of the series, you put alot of empasis on a money grubber's statements Edited March 2, 2012 by Darth_Malevolent Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Diamonddug Posted March 2, 2012 Share Posted March 2, 2012 Well, I can accept that Sidious is the strongest Sith of all time and the same goes for Luke. But, am I just way off base to say that it's feasible for some other Jedi/Sith to exist such that they were more powerful than either Luke or Sidious? I understand that no such character exists, but is it possible? Or am I just missing something? It is possable to create a charater more powerful Jedi than Luke and more powerful Sith than Sidious but the only person who could do it is Lucas. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rayla_Felana Posted March 2, 2012 Share Posted March 2, 2012 Well, I can accept that Sidious is the strongest Sith of all time and the same goes for Luke. But, am I just way off base to say that it's feasible for some other Jedi/Sith to exist such that they were more powerful than either Luke or Sidious? I understand that no such character exists, but is it possible? Or am I just missing something? Well as far as things stand no Sith can be more powerful than Darth Sidious, same for the Jedi with Luke, unless Lucas states otherwise and someone else takes one of those positions, all the writers etc, have to conform to Lucas' statements whenever they create a Star Wars product, be it a movie, a game, or anything. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ItchyThePenguin Posted March 2, 2012 Share Posted March 2, 2012 Well as far as things stand no Sith can be more powerful than Darth Sidious, same for the Jedi with Luke, unless Lucas states otherwise and someone else takes one of those positions, all the writers etc, have to conform to Lucas' statements whenever they create a Star Wars product, be it a movie, a game, or anything. Oh, alright. That makes enough sense. I guess I was trying to take my viewpoint as if I existed in the Star Wars universe. But, I guess, looking from the outside in it makes sense that if Lucas says it can't be so, then that's the end of discussion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rayla_Felana Posted March 2, 2012 Share Posted March 2, 2012 Nah, Im staying here, because George Lucas is an idea man, not a good director, not a good writer, he's stated these facts in an interview. And the fact he doesn't wish to allow anyone to have a character more powerful than Sidious or Luke, is the equivalent to a child taking his toys away and not letting anyone play with them Again your opinion means nothing in the face of Star Wars canon, Lucas' statements are Word of God canon, more canon than anything else, it is simply the way things are, his universe, his rules, without him, you wouldn't be here whining right now that you can't have your way, don't mean to be rude, but that's exactly how you are coming across. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZorakNasha Posted March 2, 2012 Share Posted March 2, 2012 This thread is very biased. If your going to compare SIth and Jedi, compare them at their best. Take the strongest Sith and put him against the strongest Jedi. Sidous vs Luke. Luke wins hands down. Actually Luke lost that battle. Vader had to step in and save Luke. If Vader didn't step in, Luke would have been toast. I think you're the one being bias. Again not trolling, it's just an observation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rayla_Felana Posted March 2, 2012 Share Posted March 2, 2012 Oh, alright. That makes enough sense. I guess I was trying to take my viewpoint as if I existed in the Star Wars universe. But, I guess, looking from the outside in it makes sense that if Lucas says it can't be so, then that's the end of discussion. I'm glad you understand and accept this, unfortunately, as you can see, this isn't the case with many people here on the forums. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrandonSM Posted March 2, 2012 Share Posted March 2, 2012 I'm glad you understand and accept this, unfortunately, as you can see, this isn't the case with many people here on the forums. 90%. Heh, sadly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZorakNasha Posted March 2, 2012 Share Posted March 2, 2012 Well, I won't agree or disagree to that. Frankly, it's kind of a pointless argument to have. We can make conjecture 'til the comes come home, but it won't amount to anything. Sure, Malgus could have taken Satele out in Return and Hope, but the fact of the matter is that he didn't. I won't attribute that to one side of the Force being stronger than the other -- I'm just saying that he didn't. Basing such judgments of the Force on individual confrontations is, well, silly, at best. I maintain that neither side of the Force is stronger than the other. Since we're talking in terms of power I would say that a Jedi could be more powerful than a Sith and vice versa. It all comes down to the Sith/Jedi in question, really. That's part of the reason why neither the Jedi nor the Sith can maintain constant control of the galaxy. The balance of power is always fluctuating in the Star Wars universe and that's why I don't think one side is "stronger" than the other. If one side were truly stronger than the other then wouldn't that side be able to continuously win? Wouldn't that side be able to hold the galaxy under their control indefinitely? Whether it be the Light or Dark side of the Force? Okay I can agree with that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ItchyThePenguin Posted March 2, 2012 Share Posted March 2, 2012 I'm glad you understand and accept this, unfortunately, as you can see, this isn't the case with many people here on the forums. Hehe well I am a rational being capable of rational thought! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wolfninjajedi Posted March 2, 2012 Share Posted March 2, 2012 Actually Luke lost that battle. Vader had to step in and save Luke. If Vader didn't step in, Luke would have been toast. I think you're the one being bias. Again not trolling, it's just an observation. Hes talking about the time they fought in the EU, Luke won. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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