Is SWTOR dying?

[Cubertt]

TOR will continue to limp along for another year or so I think, but the lack of community feeling in the game will be its death.

 

At the core, TOR is not a terrible game by any means. Max-level is shambolic, but the 1-49 experience of questing and fairly entertaining (if a little thin) Warzone PvP keeps things interesting. Sure they dropped the ball on a ton of stuff, but other stuff eg: the questing system is the best I've encountered in any MMO.

 

What keeps MMOs alive is Community and IMHO this is where TOR fails the hardest. Still not having a proper server forum system is inexcusable. The game world is so wide-open and/or instanced off into little pockets of storyline that you barely even see anyone else. The "fleet" experience is also very underwhelming, most people hanging around either the GTN or the PvP quest giver.

 

Community keeps even the worst MMOs alive, but TOR's complete lack might spell its doom. Time will tell I guess...

 

this naga hit the nail on the head

[Rami__]

The IP + the manpower they are still putting behind it, I don't think it's dying any time soon. Every MMO has this type of subscriber behaviour, this type of forum QQing and the initial burn-out from those who rushed a first-release MMO to max level and expected the polish of a 5 year old MMO. Sure some MMOs die out, but EA + SW IP is a gold mine.

 

To put it succinctly:

 

I'll see you in the next 'SWTOR is dying' thread in 6 months.

[Deathmond]

if 1.2 will be suck swtor instant get -500k subscribers:D

[Cubertt]

This game has the best lvling of any MMO i ever played thats for sure, especialy on release i was very impressed in that. The problem is the lack of endgame content imo which is no surpise to me considering how new this game is. Im sure they will improve the game and im anxious to see by how much, for example to see the new WZ they are talking about.

[Aepervius]

EA doesn't do f2p. I doubt that they'll end up with enough monthly subs to keep it going, which is why EA will pull the plug. They want money. That's it.

 

That is doubtful.

 

To be a commercial success, they said they would need something around 500K subs.

They have had at least 3 times that at the start (1.7 M). Even if half of them were gone (and there are many source including XFIRE which hint that at least part of the population is not playing as long as before or even not playing anymore), they would STILL be a commercial success. And no, I doubt half of them are gone, at least until another MMO comes out. So all your doom and gloom is without any basis.

[Aepervius]

Thanks! And wow, that is a tiny percentage. I never would have thought it was that low. I suppose it's possible the numbers have increased over the past couple of years, I point people to the forums more often when they have questions in game, as do other people. And I really think more people are more savvy about builds and BiS gear, but still, I never expected it to be that low.

 

I am not surprised it is that low, and I bet the same is reflected here. There is nowhere near 1.7 M different user on this forum, and there is a small group of hardcore "poster" which you will find in many thread (both fan and non fan at least until their sub run out). I am one of them.

 

But the real metric is not how many % post in the forum. The real interesting bit of info is : does the forum population with its like and dislike, represent fairly the global population ? I would wager that no, it does not represent it, and there are more complainer on the forum than in game. It is a gut feeling.

[Monkfishysnow]

It most definitely wont go f2p, EA are too much of a scumbag company to give something for free but once they see it's not making the profit they hoped they will pull it completely.

 

And the game is definitely dying. My server which has dropped from very heavy almost all the time throughout the day is now light-medium most of the time (Even around midday and 6pm) There is literally nothing to do once you reach 50 which doesn't take long. My guild has disbanded which had a lot of people simply because of how boring it has become and the lack of content they don't even come on to do dailys anymore and I don't either really. My friend who has waited for this game for many years quit at level 50 because of the crappy pvp and lack of content (and he was the one who got me playing in the first place.)

 

Sure once you're 50 you unlock Hard mode flashpoints, (which become pointless once you get the columi gear from it which takes 2 or 3 runs depending on luck etc)

 

Raids, (Again on normal mode which most will be doing (Or not because a lot of people don't have a guild that raids or not in a guild at all) it's pointless as you're more likely to get gear you need from Hard mode flashpoints which is faster and easier)

 

50 bracket pvp. (Prepare to get the living s*** kicked out of you if you've just reached level 50 (my TANK spec Powertech in the 40 pvp gear got like 3 to 5 hit KO'd when I started in the 50 bracket. Similarly I was 1v1 with a mercenary also in lvl 40 pvp gear while I was on my Battle master sage and the amount of damage he was doing was laughable, he didn't even get my weak sage shield down before I killed him in a couple hits after sitting there for 10 seconds laughing while he hit me with feeble tracer missiles.)

 

After a week or so it all just feels pointless are repetitive and you don't see many rewards for your efforts. Champion gear takes the piss to get now, 5 days doing the daily quests per 1 champion set piece or about 12 days for the main hand.

 

You will log on, pick up 2 quests go to ilum kill some people, go grind through 3 warzone wins, if you're republic I hope you like losing, if you're imperial you better like huttball. Then once those 2 quests are done you pick up 2 champion bags with 7 champion comms and 15 centurion in. (If you're a new 50 even in centurion you will get the crap kicked out of you because everyone already got full champ and/or Battlemaster gear)

 

SWTOR has now become a day job, your working hours are 12pm-4pm (hours are subject to change depending on how lucky you are.) At a rate of 15 centurion and 7 champion commendations for 4 hours work per day or 1 champion item per week. This excludes Champion Main hand.

 

These are my opinions and feelings on the matter based on playing both these characters, so eveything I've talked about I have experienced.

 

Republic Sage level 50, Valor 62, full battlemaster. (Became a level 50 before the bag update when champion was still moderately hard to get)

 

Imperial Powertech level 50, Valor 48, Full Centurion, 2 champion pieces. (Became level 50 AFTER the bag update making champion gear a pain in the *** to get).

 

...it was great while it lasted

 

tl;dr At level 50, boring, repetitive, don't see many rewards for the amount of effort you put in, lack of interesting content to keep you playing, unfair PVP for new 50's which puts a lot of them off playing. Feels like a crappy day job doing daily quests, heavily gear based, gear takes too long to get, most classes require minimal skill to play and do well with, (I'm looking at you Mercs and Operatives and sorcs.)

Edited February 29, 2012 by Monkfishysnow

[Pyowin]

...it was great while it lasted

 

No, it really wasn't. The engine was such garbage that fps plummets when there are more than 10 players/npcs playing at the same time in the same area. The game is full of memory leaks everywhere. If you play continuously for more than a couple hours, the game performance goes to ****. There all sorts of exploits and glitches in PvP not to mention faction imbalances. Target of target was never there. The could never get their ability cooldown tracker to not be stupid (and were somehow surprised when their "fix" made things worse). The game was and probably still is a piece of **** - it's just that like Episode I, it takes people a while to overcome their denial at the disappointment.

Edited April 20, 2012 by LexiCazam
IC - old post

[Monkfishysnow]

No, it really wasn't. The engine was such garbage that fps plummets when there are more than 10 players/npcs playing at the same time in the same area. The game is full of memory leaks everywhere. If you play continuously for more than a couple hours, the game performance goes to ****. There all sorts of exploits and glitches in PvP not to mention faction imbalances. Target of target was never there. The could never get their ability cooldown tracker to not be stupid (and were somehow surprised when their "fix" made things worse). The game was and probably still is a piece of **** - it's just that like Episode I, it takes people a while to overcome their denial at the disappointment.

 

I still enjoyed the game, although all your points are very valid. The game is now just disappointing and almost depressing to play.

Edited April 20, 2012 by LexiCazam
IC - quote

[Fallerup]

well it was obvious but you missed it still.

 

and xfire proved accurate measuring aoc's pop decline, WAR's pop decline and RIFT's pop decline, yet for some reason the data is not accurate for TOR right?

 

rift/war/aoc all had their dedicated fanbois too saying the pop wasn't dying, that xfire was wrong, that the pop was there it was just spread out more now etc etc etc.

 

we all know how well that worked out for them

 

if bw suck it up and act now to address the issue rather than burying their heads in the sand to protect their egos and the EA share price then they could still save it:

 

merge servers

fix ilum

add more wz's, 3 maps is pathetic by anyone's standards.

 

how many BG's did WoW have the first 3 months?? It had 2 if I remember correctly, and I started playing it 4 months after release, there were still 2, if, like I said, I remember correctly. They were WSG and AV. The 3rd one was added shortly after. For 2 YEARS, that number didn't change. only with the introduction of BC, did they add a new BG that featured Bloodelves vrs Draenei (WSG was Nightelf vs orcs, AV was human vs orc and so on and so on).

 

The thing that kept PvP in WoW alive was world PvP. I wanna bet that world PvP is dead and rotting very fast in WoW now too, with the intoduction of flying mounts to anyone over lvl 30 or something. there use to be was lots of that, where there is almost none in TOR. The developers know this. What they need to do is relocate or create mission npcs in a neutral part of the planet. maybe add missions that are open to both factions from the SAME npc. That way, people will meet more often and world PvP will be alive.

 

They will add new WZ and FPs and all that in 3.2 or what ever the patch that comes in march is called. They will also release part 2 of "rise of the Rakghouls" in that patch, Personally, I can't wait for it to be released.

Edited February 29, 2012 by Fallerup

[Nulli]

You guys are idiots. I never understood the point of whining, I play the game cause I enjoy it.

 

 

My opinion though is that while dailies do encourage participation in certain aspects of the game they also disincentivise from doing anything more.

 

Even I sometimes feel its pointless to wz past the daily quest req of 3 wins, and noticed a lot of folks won't play past the daily quest allotment.

[MMOgamer]

Yes. It is getting worse each day on Belgoths Beacon. 11 people on Ilum during primetime? WZ Q's are getting longer and longer.

[Tmaista]

http://www.mmorpg.com/blogs/Teala/012012/22492_The-Tortanics-Maiden-Voyage

 

This is what happens when you create a ranged stun fest and the best pvp dps classes are also the easiest to play.

 

You quickly come to the conclusion...why bother.

 

Seriously tho, the guy writing that article is a hipocrite.

 

Hes saying he cares and wished for this game to be better or up to his expectations, yet hes the one doing the most work in order to fasten its downfall.

 

Sad.

 

The game has got good potential. Its got alot of mistakes but they are beign fixed.

[Noctournys]

how many BG's did WoW have the first 3 months?? It had 2 if I remember correctly, and I started playing it 4 months after release, there were still 2, if, like I said, I remember correctly. They were WSG and AV. The 3rd one was added shortly after. For 2 YEARS, that number didn't change. only with the introduction of BC, did they add a new BG that featured Bloodelves vrs Draenei (WSG was Nightelf vs orcs, AV was human vs orc and so on and so on).

 

The thing that kept PvP in WoW alive was world PvP. I wanna bet that world PvP is dead and rotting very fast in WoW now too, with the intoduction of flying mounts to anyone over lvl 30 or something. there use to be was lots of that, where there is almost none in TOR. The developers know this. What they need to do is relocate or create mission npcs in a neutral part of the planet. maybe add missions that are open to both factions from the SAME npc. That way, people will meet more often and world PvP will be alive.

 

They will add new WZ and FPs and all that in 3.2 or what ever the patch that comes in march is called. They will also release part 2 of "rise of the Rakghouls" in that patch, Personally, I can't wait for it to be released.

 

WoW had zero BGs at launch.

 

None.

 

All it had was "World PvP" in the form of the TM/Southshore zergfest.

 

People remember it fondly, but i remember it for what it was: zerg v zerg stupidity.

 

Why people get so hung up on World PvP, i have no idea.

 

World PvP died a needed and almost instant death the moment Battlegrounds debuted.

[Noctournys]

Must be a fanboy. Only and fanboy would say somthing so unintelligent.

 

Do tell me good sir since you have such a VAST array of knowledge on making MMOs how 3 half assed WZs no real OW PvP and 2 raids is sufficent end game content for 6yr of production??

 

... why isnt that enough end-game for six y ears of production (the vast majority of which is spent on game systems anyway)?

 

It's more than most MMOs l aunch with, for one thing... and it is on par with MMOs already out. What does WoW have, at any given time:

 

One relevant end-game raid

2-5 relevant end-game dungeons

Battlegrounds

Daily Quests

Rep Grinds

.... sound familiar?

 

Im looking here and about 90% of the people on these threads are saying there is a lack of endgame content so obviously you just tryin to pick a fight now so id stop while your ahead before you look even more like an ***.

 

Oh did i mention how that 90% have subs to this game?? Do you think they will resub if they feel end game content is lacking??

 

90% of the people on this forum dont even make up 2% of the subscribers. You're overselling how much these forums matter by a lot.

[Noctournys]

No, it really wasn't. The engine was such garbage that fps plummets when there are more than 10 players/npcs playing at the same time in the same area. The game is full of memory leaks everywhere.

 

And yet, apart from a few memory leaks that were already fixed..

 

ive never had any of these problems, other than bad framerate in Illum, which i solved by not assuming the problem was the game.

 

All of your Homebuilding Pros might want to accept the fact that your custom super rig might be the cause... because it has been for every single person i know who has had framerate problems.

[bklynfinest]

WoW had zero BGs at launch.

 

None.

 

All it had was "World PvP" in the form of the TM/Southshore zergfest.

 

People remember it fondly, but i remember it for what it was: zerg v zerg stupidity.

 

Why people get so hung up on World PvP, i have no idea.

 

World PvP died a needed and almost instant death the moment Battlegrounds debuted.

 

I'm glad your views on world pvp are solely based on WoW. What did every successful MMO with a PvP aspect have? World PvP. UO, AC, DAOC, SB, EQ, EVE, SWG -- there was zero instancing in those games. It's a lot more difficult to survive in OPvP than it is in a WZ. Half these WZ kids wouldn't last 30 secs making a Deceit run while red @_@. WZ PvP is easy and bland. There's no psychologic element which the real good players thrive in that is present in a WZ. Any gimp can bumrush someone knowing they'll just spawn back at reset point A. Enjoy paying $15 a month for 3 maps (yes I know, sometime in the distant future you'll have a whopping 4).

[Garbald]

And yet, apart from a few memory leaks that were already fixed..

 

ive never had any of these problems, other than bad framerate in Illum, which i solved by not assuming the problem was the game.

 

All of your Homebuilding Pros might want to accept the fact that your custom super rig might be the cause... because it has been for every single person i know who has had framerate problems.

 

Yes of course!

The pcs which run every other game (even other mmos with better graphics) with 80 fps no matter how much stuff is happening on the screen are to blame, not the super awesome engine which creates such beautiful and only 5 years behind current graphics renderings

Thanks for enlightening us all

Edited February 29, 2012 by Garbald

[Noctournys]

I'm glad your views on world pvp are solely based on WoW. What did every successful MMO with a PvP aspect have? World PvP. UO, AC, DAOC, SB, EQ, EVE, SWG -- there was zero instancing in those games.

 

All of the subs for the those games totalled up dont equal the number of subs that SWTOR hs now, much less WoW.

 

It's a lot more difficult to survive in OPvP than it is in a WZ. Half these WZ kids wouldn't last 30 secs making a Deceit run while red @_@. WZ PvP is easy and bland. There's no psychologic element which the real good players thrive in that is present in a WZ. Any gimp can bumrush someone knowing they'll just spawn back at reset point A. Enjoy paying $15 a month for 3 maps (yes I know, sometime in the distant future you'll have a whopping 4).

 

"Distant future"... or, you know, about three weeks.

 

And then another one in 1.3... a whopping 3 months off.

 

The reason World PvP is awful is because it isnt about skill or strategy or even good tactics - its about zerging. Or, if not precisely zerging, outnumbering.

 

All it tests is who was more fortunate.

 

Ive played most of those games (EQ "world PvP" ... yeah, whatever man) and other then allowing you to be a griefing douchebag... the world pvP wasnt some nirvana.

[Noctournys]

Yes of course!

The pcs which run every other game (even other mmos with better graphics) with 80 fps no matter how much stuff is happening on the screen are to blame, not the super awesome engine which creates such beautiful and only 5 years behind current graphics renderings

Thanks for enlightening us all

 

if you did some research, or understood anything about how games or software works, this might be more than you looking completely stupid.

 

Got a Phenom or a Phenom II? Problem is on your end

 

Got a late-generation Core 2 series CPU (particularly the Extreme branded CPUs?) Problem is on your end

 

Got an early run Core i series? Problem is likely on your end.

 

All of those CPUs have known issues with throttling because of bad BIOS/EFI, faulty heat sensors, or other problems.

 

But hey, you can just bury your head in the sand and say "because i play these extremely CPU light games that work great, this CPU heavy game that is totally different should work exactly the same, trololol" ... while your BIOS probably havent been updated since you probuilt your own machine, which is causing your problems.

[Garbald]

All of the subs for the those games totalled up dont equal the number of subs that SWTOR hs now, much less WoW.

 

Yes, because we all know that the number of subscribers for mmos always was and always will be in the 20 million range and of course every single one of these games had a 100 - 200 million dollar budget and had staff in the hundreds to pay each month...

 

wait... no... all of these things are not true...hmm

 

Oh and my specs are:

i5 2500

2 gtx 460 sli

8gig ram

bios is uptodate and so are my drivers.

Edited February 29, 2012 by Garbald

[Ewgal]

On some servers yes, and on other no. I think on servers where there is a problem with faction numbers it may be pretty bad.

[Bloodynightmare]

No the game is not dying little kids so calm down. Do you realize how much it takes for a MMO to be "killed" and over with? Before WoW was born, and destroyed my beloved genre by flooding the gates with fools, most MMOs would AT MOST hit around the 1 million mark for subs. EVERY MMO that's soon to come out these days have the idiots proclaiming the next willl destroy the already released. I can't wait until GW2 come out so people can shut up about it and watch as they too have Forums stating "Is GW2 dying?" lol.

 

Bioware's MAIN mistake is providing so MANY servers for a generation that have made it a fad to only play a MMO for the first month and quitting. Every MMO vet from the old generation knows that a MMO at launch is still just testing the waters and doesn't flourish until about a year later. MMOs release when they hold enough content to keep us entertained long enough as they continue to build.

 

This stupid new generation has bought in this single player mindset like "I bought this game and you should have had everything in it before you released!" The problem with that is you didn't buy anything, you INVESTED into this game because you believe it has potential TO BECOME something great. The cost of the game and subs provide funds to this ongoing project.

 

 

 

 

TLDR: The game is not dying, it's just trimming down like every MMO does. This is star wars and already have a hardcore playerbase. Stop pretending like you casuals are what determine if a MMO dies or not. Guess what doom and gloom trolls...Ever hear of FFXI? that game is still alive and kicking(updates and everything) you know why? because the hardcore playerbase is still there.

Edited February 29, 2012 by Bloodynightmare

[SirRobin]

I'm glad your views on world pvp are solely based on WoW. What did every successful MMO with a PvP aspect have? World PvP. UO, AC, DAOC, SB, EQ, EVE, SWG -- there was zero instancing in those games. It's a lot more difficult to survive in OPvP than it is in a WZ. Half these WZ kids wouldn't last 30 secs making a Deceit run while red @_@. WZ PvP is easy and bland. There's no psychologic element which the real good players thrive in that is present in a WZ. Any gimp can bumrush someone knowing they'll just spawn back at reset point A. Enjoy paying $15 a month for 3 maps (yes I know, sometime in the distant future you'll have a whopping 4).

 

Yeah, I am not sure why they keep saying TOR has instanced PvP at launch and WoW didn't like its a "good" thing. WoW had a very active Open-PvP community which was a hell of a lot more fun.

[Mrcheezle]

Is SWTOR dying? Ques are longer and longer. So many of the good players that I levelled with never log in anymore it seems. Republic fleet on mt server used to have over 100 toons at off hours, and now its mainly 20-30. My server Helm of Garush was one of the top 5 population servers at one point. Now it seems more and more like a Ghostown.

 

What's going on?

 

I think SWTOR is dieing. I don't know about dying though.. What color do you think they are dying it?