Anni PvP Build - Empowerment

[ZyrenDelacroix]

I've been looking around, and I haven't found much discussion about getting away with 1/2 in Empowerment rather than 2/2.

 

If it's reasonable to do this, I think my PvP build would be:

33/5/3

 

Any thoughts?

[ZyrenDelacroix]

Nobody know whether 1/2 Empowerment is enough?

[Ballfro]

I've been looking around, and I haven't found much discussion about getting away with 1/2 in Empowerment rather than 2/2.

 

If it's reasonable to do this, I think my PvP build would be:

33/5/3

 

Any thoughts?

 

I wouldn't personally. This spec can be very rage starved especially once you get 3 stacks of Annihilate, using 4 rage every 7.5 seconds along with keeping your bleeds up at all times. Also I would tweak your spec a little.

 

A lot of people put 2/2 into Enraged Charge, second tier 3 from the left in Carnage tree, so that they can get a full rotation off after one charge, meaning:

 

Force Charge, while in the air use Deadly Saber, Battering Assault, Rupture then Annihilate. This would conclude a full rotation for you. If you did not have 2/2 in Enraged Charge you would need to burn an Assault before you could use Annihilate, which isnt the end of the world, but to be able to pop a full rotation on someone/something is very nice to have. I would either take 2 point from Phantom or 2 from Seeping Wound to get 2/2 in Enraged Charge. Also if you aren't at 103% Accuracy I would definitly advise looking into Narrowed Hatred as well.

 

Just my 2 cents, hope this info helps you a little.

[ZyrenDelacroix]

Appreciate the feedback.

 

However, I don't think Enraged Charge is worth it. I can get a full rotation off (and already do) without it.

 

Force Charge -> Deadly Saber -> Battering Assault -> Annihilate -> Rupture.

 

Although, I'm guessing you do Anni after Rupture for the chance at resetting the CD...

 

I refuse to drop Phantom, as the ability to completely be immune to the hazards in Huttball is amazing (among other uses).

 

I'm currently trying out Seeping Wound, because as you say, it's easy to become rage starved. I like being able to save a GCD and 2 Rage by getting a slow applied on Rupture (which is already part of the rotation).

 

 

 

I take it nobody really has tested Empowerment much to figure out putting 1 vs. 2 points in it?

[CrazyAl]

i thought empowerment was a necessity as well, until i dropped it

 

you really dont need, it we have plenty of rage as is

[KazDvs]

Why do you have 3 wasted point in Malice? as Anni, Force Scream and Choke are your ONLY force attacks.

[ZyrenDelacroix]

Malice affects the DoT crit chance of bleeds.

[InfallibleArin]

http://www.torhead.com/skill-calc#100bIrRroMfhzZhMbZh.1

 

 

Ferocious.

[ZyrenDelacroix]

Of all the rage-generating skills, Enraged Charge is probably one of the least effective. Also, I'd rather have 2/2 Subjugation.

[mordredz]

I've been looking around, and I haven't found much discussion about getting away with 1/2 in Empowerment rather than 2/2.

 

If it's reasonable to do this, I think my PvP build would be:

33/5/3

 

Any thoughts?

 

Why 3 points for extra crit to Force scream and choke? Hardly use Scream, and choke ya but is it worth it?

Edited February 26, 2012 by mordredz

[mordredz]

Malice affects the DoT crit chance of bleeds.

 

How so ? its not kinetic or a force ability?

[Spiderbubble]

I find Empowerment to be very useful in many situations. Granted, you don't notice it much...

 

 

Until you die in a Warzone with a bleed on someone... and respawn with 1 Rage. Which you instantly spend to get 4 Fury by using Sweeping Slash.

 

That gets you your Berserk that much faster.

 

 

I know, that's not much, but that's really the one time you notice it. I tend to use Assault often enough due to my frequent use of Vicious Slash, and find myself at half rage or sometimes higher because of it while waiting for my rotation to come up. Once that happens, Deadly Saber>Rupture>Annihilate again and boom. Have never tried this without Empowerment, but considering how often your bleeds tick, this is a lot of potential rage.

 

 

Think about it, each bleed ticks once every 6 seconds. That's 4 times that Empowerment has a chance to give rage, which is 1 rage almost guaranteed at 30% (technically more on average, but we'll assume just one rotation).

 

Essentially, this skill means you have Rupture and Deadly Saber return 1 Rage each within 6 seconds after use.

 

You spent 3 points to get the same on Vicious Slash and Vicious Throw... How is Empowerment not worth it?

[gibmachine]

How so ? its not kinetic or a force ability?

 

Folks over at sithwarrior.com did some testing and Malice does affect bleeds.

[cosmov]

Malice affects dots.Yes their damage is internal,but attack itself is counted as force attack.Easiest way too see it is to equip willpower item.

[Ballfro]

Malice affects every single yellow damage we do. Everything we do besides something that says "Weapon Damage" is affected by Malice. This is a must talent.

 

That being said, to the OP, yes you can do the rotation your way but here is your mistake and it could be VERY costly. using Annihilate BEFORE Rupture could be a sever loss in DPS and DoT's/Heals because of the talent Pulverize. Annihilate has a 66% chance to finish the cooldown of Rupture doing 2 things. First is keeping your DoT's from Rupture on your target, and second when Rupture finishes its now ready to use again, instead of being down for another 9 seconds. Your goal should be to pull rupture off of CD as much as possible, and this is how you do it. You can also throw in a Vicious Slash as a Rage Dump, if nothing else is ready because that has a 33.33% chance to refresh it as well, along with hitting for a fair amount(as high as 2k crit).

 

So look at it like this with Enraged Charge:

 

Charge(4 Rage total 4)->Deadly Saber mid air(-3 Rage total 1)->Battering Assault(+6 Rage total 7), Rupture(-2 Rage total 5)->Annihilate +1 Rage, and you will have proc'd another rage from the talent Empowerment(which is why its so important) which would then allow you to rupture again.

 

Without Enraged Charge:

 

Charge(3 Rage 3 total)->Deadly Saber mid air(-3 Rage 0 total)->Battering Assault(+6 Rage 6 total)->Annihilate(-5 Rage +1 Rage(with talent) 2 total)-> Rupture(-2 Rage 0 total).

 

With the first option you will have DoT's up pretty much at all times. The second way puts you at missing out on DoT's for up to 9 seconds. Additionally, you are losing out on 6 more seconds of doing damage to your target and healing to yourself which could be the difference between a win or a loss in a 1 on 2, which happens a lot.

 

So to summarize:

 

2/2 Enraged Charge is a must, this is more important then having 2/2 in Phantom or Ferocity. Ferocity is beneficial for 1 WZ, and thats Huttball, plus Berserk is WAY more powerful in Annihilation spec then Predation. Predation is VERY circumstantial. If you are using Predation as an Annihilation spec'd Marauder then you are playing wrong to begin with. And while Phantom is good, I prefer Enraged Charge AND Seeping Wound for the slow. No sense in wasting rage on Crippling Slash when 30% is more then enough of a slow to keep you on your target. If you MUST have Ferocity or Phantom, its better to take the points from Seeping Wound then it is to take them from Enraged Charge.

[Xerain]

Malice affects every single yellow damage we do. Everything we do besides something that says "Weapon Damage" is affected by Malice. This is a must talent.

 

That being said, to the OP, yes you can do the rotation your way but here is your mistake and it could be VERY costly. using Annihilate BEFORE Rupture could be a sever loss in DPS and DoT's/Heals because of the talent Pulverize. Annihilate has a 66% chance to finish the cooldown of Rupture doing 2 things. First is keeping your DoT's from Rupture on your target, and second when Rupture finishes its now ready to use again, instead of being down for another 9 seconds. Your goal should be to pull rupture off of CD as much as possible, and this is how you do it. You can also throw in a Vicious Slash as a Rage Dump, if nothing else is ready because that has a 33.33% chance to refresh it as well, along with hitting for a fair amount(as high as 2k crit).

 

So look at it like this with Enraged Charge:

 

Charge(4 Rage total 4)->Deadly Saber mid air(-3 Rage total 1)->Battering Assault(+6 Rage total 7), Rupture(-2 Rage total 5)->Annihilate +1 Rage, and you will have proc'd another rage from the talent Empowerment(which is why its so important) which would then allow you to rupture again.

 

Without Enraged Charge:

 

Charge(3 Rage 3 total)->Deadly Saber mid air(-3 Rage 0 total)->Battering Assault(+6 Rage 6 total)->Annihilate(-5 Rage +1 Rage(with talent) 2 total)-> Rupture(-2 Rage 0 total).

 

With the first option you will have DoT's up pretty much at all times. The second way puts you at missing out on DoT's for up to 9 seconds. Additionally, you are losing out on 6 more seconds of doing damage to your target and healing to yourself which could be the difference between a win or a loss in a 1 on 2, which happens a lot.

 

So to summarize:

 

2/2 Enraged Charge is a must, this is more important then having 2/2 in Phantom or Ferocity. Ferocity is beneficial for 1 WZ, and thats Huttball, plus Berserk is WAY more powerful in Annihilation spec then Predation. Predation is VERY circumstantial. If you are using Predation as an Annihilation spec'd Marauder then you are playing wrong to begin with. And while Phantom is good, I prefer Enraged Charge AND Seeping Wound for the slow. No sense in wasting rage on Crippling Slash when 30% is more then enough of a slow to keep you on your target. If you MUST have Ferocity or Phantom, its better to take the points from Seeping Wound then it is to take them from Enraged Charge.

 

I disagree on both your must talents, I recent switch out of Enraged Charge. The amount i miss it is 0. Having 2/2 empowerment is good enough to get annihilate off when you need it, if worst comes to worst you get toe assault for 2 points and then annihilate which isn't that big a deal as it's more damage and more rage to do other things.

 

As far as malice goes, Currently i have 1 point in it and i'm not sure if i even need it there. With both the talents short fuse and defensive forms you generate fury like a boss and can pop off berserk so fast that the 6% dot crit isn't going to matter at all... The point is still thrown way up in the air on what to do with it though.

[Ridisi]

Why 3 points for extra crit to Force scream and choke? Hardly use Scream, and choke ya but is it worth it?

 

Again, for the billionth time, Malice works on your DoTs.

[Ballfro]

I disagree on both your must talents, I recent switch out of Enraged Charge. The amount i miss it is 0. Having 2/2 empowerment is good enough to get annihilate off when you need it, if worst comes to worst you get toe assault for 2 points and then annihilate which isn't that big a deal as it's more damage and more rage to do other things.

 

As far as malice goes, Currently i have 1 point in it and i'm not sure if i even need it there. With both the talents short fuse and defensive forms you generate fury like a boss and can pop off berserk so fast that the 6% dot crit isn't going to matter at all... The point is still thrown way up in the air on what to do with it though.

 

Having to use Assault requires the use of a global cooldown. That in itself is just bad. Time is money friend.

 

Secondly, your not sure if Malice is a must? Is that a joke? Annihilation spec is BASED on critical strike bleeds. Please look at the talent tree and read the talent Hungering and tell me you don't want 6% more Crit. 6% Crit is 6% more likely to do 2 things. 1, more damage because a crit dot hits for more then a normal dot, and 2nd, you only get healed if it the dot CRITS! This talent is a no brainer, and if you are not 3/3 in it then please go play an Arsenal Bounty Hunter.

 

Its amazing from reading these forums how bad some Marauders are. You should have to take a test before offering advice to people asking questions because alot of these posts are just....wow. Bad.

 

In a few pugs I did today I was well over 400k and over 100k healing. You don't get 100k healing unless your focusing on taking Rupture off of cooldown. I see a ton of Anni Marauders doing 150k-250k with 15-20k healing. These people have no freaking clue *** they are doing. If you aren't getting the 75k Healing medal, then you are playing this class wrong.

[Xerain]

Having to use Assault requires the use of a global cooldown. That in itself is just bad. Time is money friend.

 

Secondly, your not sure if Malice is a must? Is that a joke? Annihilation spec is BASED on critical strike bleeds. Please look at the talent tree and read the talent Hungering and tell me you don't want 6% more Crit. 6% Crit is 6% more likely to do 2 things. 1, more damage because a crit dot hits for more then a normal dot, and 2nd, you only get healed if it the dot CRITS! This talent is a no brainer, and if you are not 3/3 in it then please go play an Arsenal Bounty Hunter.

 

Its amazing from reading these forums how bad some Marauders are. You should have to take a test before offering advice to people asking questions because alot of these posts are just....wow. Bad.

 

In a few pugs I did today I was well over 400k and over 100k healing. You don't get 100k healing unless your focusing on taking Rupture off of cooldown. I see a ton of Anni Marauders doing 150k-250k with 15-20k healing. These people have no freaking clue *** they are doing. If you aren't getting the 75k Healing medal, then you are playing this class wrong.

 

you're going to need to rage build after that anyways so the global isn't going to matter and it's not like you're going to kill the person in that time.

 

No i'm sure malice isn't a must with the amount of fury generate annihilation has. It stays up a ton and when you're at high levels of gear and sitting on 50% dot crit... your talents are better spent somewhere else.

 

 

 

Aren't you the marauder that's been QQ'ing about CC and knock backs and was fighting with me about how you should open up with a charge 100% of the time... you have no room to call anyone bad sir.

[Ballfro]

No i'm sure malice isn't a must with the amount of fury generate annihilation has. It stays up a ton and when you're at high levels of gear and sitting on 50% dot crit... your talents are better spent somewhere else.

 

 

What are you talking about? Malice has nothing to do with fury generation. Malice gives every single ability that Marauder does, except white damage attacks(Annihilate) 6% more chance to crit. Thats Deadly Saber, Rupture, Force Scream, Force Choke, Vicious Throw, and Smash. All of those have a 6% chance to crit, then they do without this talent. And the Bleed DoT's count as well. So again, why am I not taking this as an Annihilation Marauder? And what does Malice have to do with Fury generation again? Please know what your talking about before you post something stupid.

[SmearBlood]

What are you talking about? Malice has nothing to do with fury generation. Malice gives every single ability that Marauder does, except white damage attacks(Annihilate) 6% more chance to crit. Thats Deadly Saber, Rupture, Force Scream, Force Choke, Vicious Throw, and Smash. All of those have a 6% chance to crit, then they do without this talent. And the Bleed DoT's count as well. So again, why am I not taking this as an Annihilation Marauder? And what does Malice have to do with Fury generation again? Please know what your talking about before you post something stupid.

 

What he is trying to refer to is the fact that annihilation generates fury so fast that berserk will be up a lot of the time which he thinks negates the usefulness of malice.

 

I completely disagree however, Malice is a must need talent and anyone who thinks otherwise has not done the theorycrafting behind it.

 

You need malice.

[mordredz]

Again, for the billionth time, Malice works on your DoTs.

 

k ya and if you payed attetion to the 10 posts above you they answered that champ, grats on opening your eyes...

[Vakyoom]

you're going to need to rage build after that anyways so the global isn't going to matter and it's not like you're going to kill the person in that time.

 

No i'm sure malice isn't a must with the amount of fury generate annihilation has. It stays up a ton and when you're at high levels of gear and sitting on 50% dot crit... your talents are better spent somewhere else.

 

Aren't you the marauder that's been QQ'ing about CC and knock backs and was fighting with me about how you should open up with a charge 100% of the time... you have no room to call anyone bad sir.

 

Malice is absolutely necessary because thats less crit you need to focus on in your normal build. You can only get to about 29-30% with crit rating anyhow but having 52% crit on your bleeds all the time, and 100% when berserk is up is completely necessary. The crit from malice is very good for annihliation, since you don't need the extra accuracy for ataru form strikes.

 

Empowerment is a talent that i missed severely when i tried not taking it, it's basically going to build extra rage for you so you don't have to use assault and waste a cd. You'll have the rage for that second rupture or for a vicious slash incase annihilate didn't refresh rupture that time. As it was stated before in this thread, time wasted on an assault is still time wasted. Rage earned for free is rage you don't have to waste your time building.

 

This also applies to Enraged charge. Personally i use Stagger for PvP but for PvE i always take the 1 extra rage from force charge, since i can charge bosses at 0 yd range... I'm not sure why you wouldn't want free rage... If you have too much rage, dump it faster.... it's not hard to run out of rage.

 

But i see videos of people using battering assault with 7-10 rage so that tells you a lot about our "player base" with this AC... oi....

Edited February 27, 2012 by Ellvaan
Insulting other members

[CrazyAl]

yellow damage = force/tech

white damage = melee/range

 

so incase anyone gets confused later that will clear it up (dots are yellow damage, so they count as force damage)

 

 

as for enraged charge ...

 

getting that extra rage on your charge is nice at all, but in the long run (the course of a fight, or a chain of fights) how much benefit does it actually give?? you may not need to use an extra rage builder before using a big rage spender after your opening charge, but either way you still have to build up every rage you use, so after that initial charge + your next GCD, that extra point is is irrelevant

 

so it boils down to this ... enraged charge gives 1 rage per 12 seconds (per 15 for non-anni specs)

 

there are talents that give much better rage over time than that, passively too

 

for extra rage generation clock of carnage is far better than enraged charge

 

but thats a waste too imo, because our rage generation is just fine (even w/o empowerment, which is better than both enraged charge and cloak of carnage)

[Frankenstairs]

http://db.darthhater.com/skill_calc/sith_warrior/marauder/#::efefe4fe4fe5f4ef25e2fef6:

 

My spec.