1.1.5 - death of rarity and achievements?!

[Solomace]

Its is despicable if they do this. I havent go my guild together to do the world boss for the magenta crystal yet or anything like that. I still dont think it should be handed to me through a vendor though.

 

Also I spent alot of time farming enough money (nearly 2 weeks) to finally get my VIP wristband so i could go up to the VIP lounge and get the speeder there for 1.5 million. If they start selling this speeder for 1 million at a vendor like its nothing special at all i will be seriously choked. BW is going to isolate any player thats ever acheived anything remotely unique in this game, **** on it, and make sure that everyone can have it so that its no longer unique.

 

I really hope this doesnt go live.

 

Does any of this negate the fact that "you" achieved it your way? You still got it.

 

Some else still has to get the money together to buy the item and you still have access tot he VIP lounge that others don't. Not sure how great having access is atm, but you never know.

 

You and others like you are really being over dramatic in what is happening and BW are not just giving out items or giving out achievements.

[Mineria]

It's not "my way". It is the way the game developers decided to go. I, like you and everyone else, can choose to either play what they offer or not. So, let's not be heaping the "blame" on me.

 

I have plenty to achieve. Enough to keep me busy for months to come. I'm sorry that this is not apparently what you are finding. Truly. It is frustrating to run out of game, so to speak. However, I haven't got that problem and won't for ages.

 

As for the "shove up everyone's behind"...this is an exaggeration and well you know it. In order to buy these proposed things (as on PTR) one has to have a lot of credits. Those are earned in a variety of ways. In fact, it's probably more time consuming to clobber enough or quest enough to buy those items than it would be the current method. I could be wrong in that though. Has been in past games.

 

I will happily wager that I play and enjoy this game far longer than those for whom things like this PTR change is an issue because, y'see, I'm not the jealous sort. I believe that working toward a goal is a good thing, absolutely, but I don't get all fussed when I achieve MY goal and then notice someone else has the same thing. Good one them, good on me.

I still have a lot in the game, just pointing out that changing things to "to easy" will strangulate the game.

Also, credits are not really hard to get in SWTOR, so I completely disagree with that the mentioned items should be available for credits only, there are other ways to make it an achievement that can be done by everyone instead.

And the second thing, as long as people got something to strive for that is within descent range, they happily keep playing, only thing the developers need to be careful with, is not to screw someone over that did not have the same thing within a descent range with a patch change.

I could come up with some examples from some other games which lost a lot of faith and subscriptions over "to easy" decisions made from the developers, since those decisions really screw people over that had used a lot of time to get there.

More like handing out something within 2 weeks which other used months on.

Edited February 26, 2012 by Mineria

[Squatdog_nz]

Once again, there was absolutely nothing stopping the 'casual' player in Vanilla WoW from gearing up, joining a competent guild and doing raid content.

 

The simple fact of the matter is that a lot of these so-called 'casuals' were actually Bad Players who practically played the game 24/7, but couldn't be bothered to actually learn how to play their class or spec/gear appropriately.

 

With WotLK, the bottom 20% of Bad Players and drooling ******* cried and complained until Activision nerfed the difficulty into the ground, then again after they discovered the Uld tier required actual competence to progress through, then AGAIN when the PVE content actually required some skill on the release of the Cataclysm expansion.

 

 

 

 

So because a game that has been out for 8 years and is basically still the same format as it was in 2004, is proof that casuals have basically ruined the game? Could it just be that people are getting tired of the WoW universe?

 

I could argue that WoW became as popular is it did because it was made for "casuals".

 

No death penalties, corpse runs and a lighter vibe to the whole MMo experience.

 

10 mil is not my idea of a dying game.

 

Still not buying this argument.

 

How many people in WoW still get to see end level high raiding content? Isn't that the one thing the devs say that it's still only 1% of it's player base?

 

As I have said before, an MMo needs all types of players, however I think you will find it's the hardcore players that need the "casuals" around to keep said game going or you can kiss the game goodbye. The same cannot be said the other way round.

 

No corpse runs in WoW, eh? Have you even played the game?

 

WoW is currently losing players hand over fist (even while bribing them with the DiabloIII deal) and the dramatic increase since BC is a mirage, as the vast majority of accounts are Chinese players paying a fraction of American and European consumers for their subscription.

 

 

LFD and LFR were created out of a need for people to experience the whole game. Their was no point in spending hundreds of man hours just to please a tiny fraction of the population. Exclusionary attitudes are a part of human nature, people will find ways to make sure that other folks don't experience things, so that they are 'the only ones'...and it was to a breaking point in WOW.

 

People were sick of grinding mats for the top dog guilds, they were sick of having nothing to do at end game, sick of having to do favors and 'play nice' with big guilds in order to progress.

 

Other gamers woke up and refused to fund the raiders fun, while they themselves got 50% of a game, they wanted something to do for their 15 bucks a month.

 

Developers finally realized that it's better to give the whole game to their customers, and just create difficulty curves so that people can play at any level that they choose to.

 

Their are 'hardcore' games out there, and Ever Quest is still alive and well. Take this game for what it is, a fun ride through a fantastic story, with challenges and excitement all woven into the Star Wars universe.

 

Well...that's my two copper on the matter.

'Experiencing the content' is a lame cop-out and excuse used by Bad Players for why they should get handed free epics for face-rolling under-tuned content.

[Caelrie]

Yes, it actually is.

No, it's just pointless, silly hyperbole.

[RudyRoo]

ya know let em have there little items..or better yet let the hardcores keep em i dont give ****. Ill feel all the more better after i pwn there asses knowing i didnt need said special items to do so.

[Caelrie]

No corpse runs in WoW, eh? Have you even played the game?

 

WoW is currently losing players hand over fist (even while bribing them with the DiabloIII deal) and the dramatic increase since BC is a mirage, as the vast majority of accounts are Chinese players paying a fraction of American and European consumers for their subscription.

WoW has 10 million subs. They're fine. You're another poster using silly hyperbole because you know your point can't stand on its own.

 

I still have a lot in the game, just pointing out that changing things to "to easy" will strangulate the game.

This isn't 2009 anymore. MMOs have evolved away from this model. It's now completely possible to have BOTH hard-core and casual endgame content in the same game. I know, what a shocker, right?

 

You nerf the last tier when the new tier comes out. It's a brilliant, winning, popular system. The hard-cores have new really hard content to chew through on the harder settings, and the casuals can see the content on easier settings with lower quality or last tier's loot. Everyone wins and it's a wildly popular model. So quit doing your Chicken Little dance already. The sky isn't falling.

 

The idea that letting players see more of your game's content "strangulates" the game is so wildly ridiculous it defies common sense.

Edited February 26, 2012 by Caelrie

[Mineria]

 

 

This isn't 2009 anymore. MMOs have evolved away from this model. It's now completely possible to have BOTH hard-core and casual endgame content in the same game. I know, what a shocker, right?

 

You nerf the last tier when the new tier comes out. It's a brilliant, winning, popular system. The hard-cores have new really hard content to chew through on the harder settings, and the casuals can see the content on easier settings with lower quality or last tier's loot. Everyone wins and it's a wildly popular model. So quit doing your Chicken Little dance already. The sky isn't falling.

 

The idea that letting players see more of your game's content "strangulates" the game is so wildly ridiculous it defies common sense.

Your completely of track taking out a single line and quote just that.

How about looking at the whole thing and you should see that I don't disagree with you at all, it's just about how things are put out.

Easy instead of to easy. You see the difference?

 

EDIT:

I'm all for world event driven systems where encounters scale based on amount of participants and where every participant actually gets something for it.

But that is a complete different design.

Edited February 26, 2012 by Mineria

[Durasturan]

Yeah OP I'm sooooo super pissed when a new tier of content comes out and it makes all my old gear kind of obsolete and way easier to get... which is why the company should never ever ever add any new content every so that my accomplishments in a virtual world will remain permanent!!!!

 

 

Lol. New content is coming out. They said they have 5 freaking pages of new crew recipes, loads of new gear including new tiers of gear. This is what happens when MMO's release a new tier, have you never played an MMO before?

[Squatdog_nz]

WoW has 10 million subs. They're fine. You're another poster using silly hyperbole because you know your point can't stand on its own.

 

 

This isn't 2009 anymore. MMOs have evolved away from this model. It's now completely possible to have BOTH hard-core and casual endgame content in the same game. I know, what a shocker, right?

 

You nerf the last tier when the new tier comes out. It's a brilliant, winning, popular system. The hard-cores have new really hard content to chew through on the harder settings, and the casuals can see the content on easier settings with lower quality or last tier's loot. Everyone wins and it's a wildly popular model. So quit doing your Chicken Little dance already. The sky isn't falling.

 

The idea that letting players see more of your game's content "strangulates" the game is so wildly ridiculous it defies common sense.

 

The new model is so 'successful' that subscriptions have DROPPED by a good 2 million since 2009, even with the game growing exponentially in China and the new Latin America servers opening?

 

LOL!

[Necrolepsy]

You realise they are releasing 1.2 which will make most of these redundant in a couple of weeks, right?

[DarthKhaos]

I'm so gonna laugh when everyone realizes BioWare slips in a Purple saber with a black core from raiding and PvPing.

[ScipioAemilianus]

Ok... I've seen new vendors in public test server for 1.1.5 and I'm seriously terrified buy what's about to come.

 

Looks like Bioware plans to screw everyone who achieved something.

 

See what we get:

- Magenta crystal schematics almost free from vendor.

- Very rare Ops speeders for 1m from vendor

- PvP and daily speeders for 1M+ from vendor

- VIP speeder from vendor

- all rare color crystals, including crystals from Karraga drops PvE sabers almost free from vendor. Or at higher cost, but still only credits - no achievement involved.

 

What the heck?!

 

My guild downed world bosses about 20 times to get specific magenta crystals schematics. It was a huge achievement engaging guild multiple times on raids always requiring our artificer to come online when we groupped and it took few weeks to get it.

Now everyone will get it for 25k

 

I took part in Ops god-knows how many times and still don't have cyan color crystal, and each time I see player with PvE saber using it I see someone who achieved something I thrive for (ps. Screw the rakata black-core saber, it's a joke) - now you plan to give it away for some spare cash I earn by selling one high-grade item on GTN.

 

I won't even say anything about introducing more black-core sabers, especially for lvl50 players which is A HUGE IMMERSION BREAKER. Now all the ppl who care nothing about lore will run with this joke in Star Wars looking like a training saber being absolutely sure it makes them "l33t" and "special" cause they preordered (ps. it's not about being jelaous - I got preorder, I got rakata saber, it doesn't change anything) or bought stuff for 25k at vendor

 

Ps. Before someone pop-up telling that it won't hit the live servers - give me a quote. Otherwise it's just random opinion.

 

REMARKS:

- It's not about "feeling special" - it's about having an objective in game. And keeping things people worked for worthwhile. And having the point in keeping subscription instead of just getting all the stuff from vendor in moment one hits lvl50.

- Patch 1.1.5 won't make your crafting useful. 1.2 will but we aren't talking about that patch. Also: The artificers get screwed most of all by 1.1.5 cause we won't need you anymore after 1.2 - all the crystals majority of people thrive for will be handled to us from vendors already.

- I'm a casual player, not "hardcore raider" as majority of people falsely assume here. And as casual I ask for keeping achievement items as an achievements instead of give-away stuff

 

OP. . .I never had any fancy titles, I never had any fancy mounts nor was I able to get super cool gear in other mmos. why? because I didn't like people and I didn't like children. so I pvped. I could only get so much alone.

 

I am ok with this. I actually pvp in this a lot and hate when gear has to have different stats. Does it mean what you got your way is any less of value? not at all. everyone has different ways to reach the same ends.

[daMarek]

OP. . .I never had any fancy titles, I never had any fancy mounts nor was I able to get super cool gear in other mmos. why? because I didn't like people and I didn't like children. so I pvped. I could only get so much alone.

 

I am ok with this. I actually pvp in this a lot and hate when gear has to have different stats. Does it mean what you got your way is any less of value? not at all. everyone has different ways to reach the same ends.

 

Why are you playing multiplayer games if you dont like people?

[Tic-]

If the content is fun, i could care less if i get my color crystal on a silver platter, or in a pile of dirt.

 

Sadly, it seems fun has been replaced with treadmills

[grucho]

Did Bioware merged with Activision or what? These changes are horrible, so now everyone and their mom will beriding mount I got from Karraga HM and Soa HM. Well I won't probably resub when my playtime runs out in march. Nice job Bioware, I quit WoW for all the spoon feeding and catering to casuals and now SWTOR is doing the same. Remove goals from game = kill the game. Edited February 26, 2012 by grucho

[SmoothC]

Having no interest to raid, ever, I see no problems with this.

 

That's your choice, as it is my choice, and many others, to raid. Our time, effort, and the level of skill we have to develop has, in part, been crapped on with this patch and any other patch that has/will come out that gives these kinds of things to others who choose not to raid.

 

And "not having time" is not an excuse to not being able to raid in this game. Gearing up and getting 8 ppl together to run an op is ridiculously easy in this game. Hell, im the raid leader of my guild, and i live in Japan though the guild is primarily stateside, and i can find the time to raid. So if i can do it, anyone can.

 

Dev's making decisions like this may appease a vocal minority of casuals whom have self entitlement issues, but will lose the raiders for a new home that can appreciate the effort and sacrifice that raiders choose to go through to have all those nice shineys. Then all that $ that was spent on making those endgame components of the game will have been wasted.

[rkopczak]

Why are you playing multiplayer games if you dont like people?

 

 

because he can kill them I guess

[Kunovega]

Having no interest to raid, ever, I see no problems with this.

 

if you arent willing to raid why should you get the best gear in the game for doing absolutely nothing?

 

this patch makes the game a joke, might as well just level everyone to 50 upon buying the game and mail them full gear by email

[Charliff]

if you arent willing to raid why should you get the best gear in the game for doing absolutely nothing?

 

this patch makes the game a joke, might as well just level everyone to 50 upon buying the game and mail them full gear by email

 

People still need to play to get the credits to buy stuff (not that i agree this shop should be implemented) so telling others you get everything for free when this goes live is wrong.

[Kunovega]

Because then he's not special.

 

if there is nothing to achieve than no one feels special

 

if no one feels special and you log in with nothing left to earn, you wont keep playing the game

 

do you play all your single player games in god mode with no challenge and nothing to earn? because changes like this to an mmo where everything becomes essentially free with no challenge to obtain are the same thing

 

if you put everyone equal with nothing to earn, they stop playing because they have nothing to do

[Loyal_Viggo]

Looking forward to spending my hard-earned virtual cash on weapon crystals, fast speeders and even faster women in a seedy Naar Shaddaa bar.

 

All I need now is deathsticks... maybe they'll be on sale from a special vendor too...

[Lightmaguz]

Did Bioware merged with Activision or what? These changes are horrible, so now everyone and their mom will beriding mount I got from Karraga HM and Soa HM. Well I won't probably resub when my playtime runs out in march. Nice job Bioware, I quit WoW for all the spoon feeding and catering to casuals and now SWTOR is doing the same. Remove goals from game = kill the game.

 

So you're leaving the game because your shiny toy isn't that shiny anymore? Don't think you LIKED the game in the first place.

[CyberPrey]

This thread has been quite interesting...

 

But, it seems to boil down to the hardcore players upset that bioware may be allowing casuals access to the same rewards without the raiding part.....

 

So what? Its a game.....

 

Sometimes, I think folks forget what that means....

[Caelrie]

The new model is so 'successful' that subscriptions have DROPPED by a good 2 million since 2009, even with the game growing exponentially in China and the new Latin America servers opening?

 

LOL!

 

Subs didn't start dropping in 2009. Stop debating dishonestly.

[SWTOR-GR]

It's disgraceful, but it's what all MMO's do. People complain about not being able to have what everyone else has, etc.

There's no longer any form of achievement or idolism in MMO's, that disappearred 5+ years ago IMO.

 

Putting things up for actual "coin" in MMO's is a stupid idea. At the moment it works fine in SWTOR because everyone has so much money due to a poor economy design, but as soon as there are more and more things to buy, and not enough cash to buy them, gold farmers start to appear and the game goes down the toilet. As much as I think PvP gear and PvP stats is a stupid idea, at least you have to PvP in order to obtain it. It can't just be bought. That seperates those who put in effort/time and those who don't .

 

But then again, eventually everyone has the same stuff because the cry bears come out of their caves and complain.

 

I full agree with this thoughts .

 

Also with open poster thoughts .... as a dedicated crafter myself i want to give me some dificulties the game . if the game is designed for childrens i prefer playing a < hello kitty online > that it is free than a game where the exploiter or the player that buy credits with real money is better than me that i spent so much time to be better in a part of the game like crafting is.

 

 

i am not reached the top crafting level yet but when i will reach it and see that all my time and efforts in crafting were useless ... definately ...i will quit and i will take many with me ....!!!!

 

ofcourse i will not give to nobody my staff

Edited February 26, 2012 by SWTOR-GR