pvp gear v.s. pve gear for pvp

[redluna]

for annihilation mara. im confused. some say pve gear is better for pvp.

[getdownsb]

It's very debatable. On paper pure PvE gear, including all Rakata and all craftable Rakata + mainstat augments nets you more damage and more survivability then full Battlemaster.

 

Battlemaster suffers from really poor itemization of the mods.

 

Mix and match can give you a very solid expertise base, plus a bit higher mainstat and endurance then full BM gear. Which in most cases is better for group situations, because less damage taken is better then more health when you have a healer on you. Although this is going to require crit crafting Rakata pieces.

 

So, full BM gear is probably the easiest path to solid gear for PvP. If you want to go the extra mile you're going to be grind biometric alloys and a couple crafting professions, plus NM EV for the Columni implant schematic.

[Vegettopk]

for annihilation mara. im confused. some say pve gear is better for pvp.

 

You want to mix and match. Currently, I'm sitting at about 8% expertise. Also, you should change the enhancements in your gear.

[Pappus]

It is not really debatable, but better for PvP to wear full or almost full PvE gear.

 

Only point debatable is increased maxHP vs mitigation for pockethealer cases and even then the argument is a stalemate.

 

You can check my signature for a post with a more detailed calculation if you wish.

 

The reason for that has nothing to do with poor mods on the BM pieces though. It is solely the price you pay in endurance and mainstat, because you get a third modifier called expertise, which only works well vs targets without it, but in full BM vs BM situations ceases to exist.

[Soilantgreen]

because you get a third modifier called expertise, which only works well vs targets without it

 

This statement doesn't make any sense, logically or mathematically.

 

Also, everything stat wise is dependent on your current stats, for the most part stat weights are floating. Everything is also very different for Rage vs Anni so there is no 1 magic formula for maras. I checked out your post but it hasnt been updated to account for the surge nerf so most of the numbers are meaningless.

 

Expertise gives both effective HP, and effective str, for example for rage spec looking at PvP vs PvE chests

PvP: 81 str + 50 expertise

PvE: 99 str

 

Even at 600+ expertise 81 str and 50 expertise is still a bigger dps boost than 99 str.

 

At no expertise, 1 point of expertise is worth more than 1 point of strength. Based on that fact alone it doesnt make sense to ever wear full PvE gear for PvP.

 

TLDR: You shouldn't use full PvE gear for PvP, and the best piece for you is always dependant on what gear you have and your spec... ie noone can tell you for sure, you have to figure it out for yourself.

[Angelfeeties]

I love running up against people in full PVE gear. They think that the extra main stats and endurance is worth it until they get crit for 5k from my Annihilate.

 

People say that BM gear isn't as good because of the mods and enhancements. All you have to do is swap them out.

 

10% expertise and a couple PVE pieces and you're good to go.

[BobaStyx]

What above poster said. I ran into another marauder, anni spec same as me, with all Columi/Rakata gear and 19k+ health. I have champ gear and 1 piece of BM. The fight ended with me at over 70% health and him dead as 1k+ bleeds were draining him dry.

 

There is definitely something to say about PvP gear/expertise having an edge over PvE gear. Without that 10-12% attack increase/mitigated damage from expertise, which seems to be about the average of decently geared PvP players, I honestly believe people who run around in PvE gear do gimp themselves.

 

However, that's my assumption and until we can get logs showing us otherwise, it's what I will continue to believe until a PvE-geared marauder proves me otherwise.

[noexqss]

i actually skipped the Centurion gear and saved straight for Champion. BUT i also kept up my pve gear with level 50+ mods & having to buy great purples off the GTN just to hold me up. Two of my companions is fully Centurion geared to spend the comms on.

 

Just keep doing dailies for purple mods & always checking the GTN for best upgrades...

[Vegettopk]

What above poster said. I ran into another marauder, anni spec same as me, with all Columi/Rakata gear and 19k+ health. I have champ gear and 1 piece of BM. The fight ended with me at over 70% health and him dead as 1k+ bleeds were draining him dry.

 

There is definitely something to say about PvP gear/expertise having an edge over PvE gear. Without that 10-12% attack increase/mitigated damage from expertise, which seems to be about the average of decently geared PvP players, I honestly believe people who run around in PvE gear do gimp themselves.

 

However, that's my assumption and until we can get logs showing us otherwise, it's what I will continue to believe until a PvE-geared marauder proves me otherwise.

 

What I personally do is calculate my damage and mitigation for each piece separately. As someone above mentioned, for the pieces where the Rakata is only 18 more str than the battlemaster, the expertise will most likely win. However, if the Rakata is 28 more str, the extra damage will be more than the mitigation lost, so it's worth swapping. That's just an example, but everyone really should do their own calculations to find the sweet spot.

[Pappus]

This statement doesn't make any sense, logically or mathematically.

 

Also, everything stat wise is dependent on your current stats, for the most part stat weights are floating. Everything is also very different for Rage vs Anni so there is no 1 magic formula for maras. I checked out your post but it hasnt been updated to account for the surge nerf so most of the numbers are meaningless.

 

Expertise gives both effective HP, and effective str, for example for rage spec looking at PvP vs PvE chests

PvP: 81 str + 50 expertise

PvE: 99 str

 

Even at 600+ expertise 81 str and 50 expertise is still a bigger dps boost than 99 str.

 

At no expertise, 1 point of expertise is worth more than 1 point of strength. Based on that fact alone it doesnt make sense to ever wear full PvE gear for PvP.

 

TLDR: You shouldn't use full PvE gear for PvP, and the best piece for you is always dependant on what gear you have and your spec... ie noone can tell you for sure, you have to figure it out for yourself.

 

If the differences actually were that small, then yes.

 

Just take your BM gear for all i care, but don't wonder when there is some marauder dipping the 20k HP and 2k str. he will stomp you, mathematically.

 

Full PvE vs PvP gear:

 

PvE = 22% dmg increase and 25% HP increase which beats 12% expertise bonus twofold.

 

But that is just me, beating BM's all day long.

[Soilantgreen]

If the differences actually were that small, then yes.

 

Just take your BM gear for all i care, but don't wonder when there is some marauder dipping the 20k HP and 2k str. he will stomp you, mathematically.

 

Full PvE vs PvP gear:

 

PvE = 22% dmg increase and 25% HP increase which beats 12% expertise bonus twofold.

 

But that is just me, beating BM's all day long.

 

Your assumption that 22% more strength = 22% more damage is way, way off.

 

It depends on a lot of variables which I tried to stress in my post, but the figure is way lower. For a Champ Geared Rage mara 22% strength increase is closer to 6-7% dmg increase.

[HBninjaX]

is there some kind of a gear guide I can follow? what's up with all of this Ricotta enhancements crit mumbo jumbo? I just wanna PK, not have to look at spreadsheets! Edited February 27, 2012 by HBninjaX

[LunacyJK]

I pvp (when i can be arsed with nothing else to do) in full pve gear. I have near mostly rakata/columi (columi has mostly rakata mods in).

 

My stats self buffed with rakata stim are.

Str: 1688

Bonus Melee Damage: 476.9

Crit: 24.7%

Surge: 73.29%

 

Pve gear imo is so much better than pvp gear in soo many levels. The only class I really have problems with are assasin tanks (most people seem to), and also people with their own pocket healer.

 

I am specced anni (the only spec for pvp/pve imo). My deadly sabers 3stack crits between 1.2-1.8k on a full BM geared toon, and my annihlate on the same target often crits 4-5.7k.

 

On average I deal between 3-500k dmg per wz, with an dps of 4-500 p/s (mouse over your dmg done at wz's end score board).

 

So for all those saying pvp gear is so much better with expertise than pve gear is, why not try it yourself and see what damage you can do, I admit I feel much squishier, but playing a mara with the best defensive cd's in the game, 1v1 or 1v2 is very easy, sometimes even 1v3 if they are just bad.

 

Try it before you convince yourself that pvp gear is the only way to go!

[Furyofwar]

If the differences actually were that small, then yes.

 

Just take your BM gear for all i care, but don't wonder when there is some marauder dipping the 20k HP and 2k str. he will stomp you, mathematically.

 

Full PvE vs PvP gear:

 

PvE = 22% dmg increase and 25% HP increase which beats 12% expertise bonus twofold.

 

But that is just me, beating BM's all day long.

 

 

Fail post.

 

Just a heads up you are no where NEAR 22% damage gain. On top of that. Lets say you get 15% more damage if that. You can subtract the Expertise from Damage Reduction on your target. An apply the fact you are taking more damage. So For Example lets say you gain 15% more damage(being nice with this number) You gain 1% damage. An you take 14% more damage. Fail trade.

Edited February 28, 2012 by Furyofwar

[Stuckov]

This statement doesn't make any sense, logically or mathematically.

 

Also, everything stat wise is dependent on your current stats, for the most part stat weights are floating. Everything is also very different for Rage vs Anni so there is no 1 magic formula for maras. I checked out your post but it hasnt been updated to account for the surge nerf so most of the numbers are meaningless.

 

Expertise gives both effective HP, and effective str, for example for rage spec looking at PvP vs PvE chests

PvP: 81 str + 50 expertise

PvE: 99 str

 

Even at 600+ expertise 81 str and 50 expertise is still a bigger dps boost than 99 str.

 

At no expertise, 1 point of expertise is worth more than 1 point of strength. Based on that fact alone it doesnt make sense to ever wear full PvE gear for PvP.

 

TLDR: You shouldn't use full PvE gear for PvP, and the best piece for you is always dependant on what gear you have and your spec... ie noone can tell you for sure, you have to figure it out for yourself.

 

Agreed 100%. The guy does not know what hes talking about. Expertise does what it is meant to do against geared or not geared players. The math does not change ONE BIT.

[bklynfinest]

• 4/5 BM pieces for the set bonus with enhancements swapped in depending on your spec
  
• 1 Rakata set piece
  
• Rakata bracers/waistcoard
  
• BM ear and package
  
• Columi implant from EV schematic w/ str or end augment
  
• Matrix cube
  
• BM MH and OH
  
• Profit
  

 

I've personally found this to be most optimal for mix and match. You'll have your set bonus, ~550+ exp (10%+ exp), and the incremental stat boost from PVE gear. Then you just need to pimp your enhancements by farming ops which is uber annoying. I'm sure there's a more magic formula than this but the difference will be immaterial.

Edited March 5, 2012 by bklynfinest

[Alegoss]

idd Pve geared marauders are no match whatsoever (at least thats how i see it in WZs)

 

you get a bonus damage increase as well incomming damage decrease and incomming healing increase

 

you will overcome pve geared players and i find the expertise system here in swtor

a lot better than the resilience system in wow (expertise punishes people who enter with pve gear and it doesnt really punishes ur loss of stats as it gets boosted by ur expertise)

 

im not really a calculating expert on this but i really play with feeling and how i encounter players this way, and so far i have more problems with BM marauders than pve marauders

lets say.

[atreyuz]

from my own experience, what works for me it is a mix of PvP and PvE. I try to to go much over 10% expertise.

[EasymodeX]

The "math" that has been posted thus far is some what incomplete on several points, especially when you're talking very small stat shuffles.

 

I recommend around 600 expertise (11.5%) for normal players. If you want to go balls to the walls with raid crafted critted augmented items, probably 550.

 

Going from generic, properly-modded, Battlemaster to Rakata from 600 exp to 550 exp will increase your raw damage by 0.05% against a player with moderately high expertise. Zzz. It will increase your raw, 0-heal, EHP by 0.26%, assuming damage reducers don't stack additively between expertise and anything else.

 

Of course, if you are choosing between Champ and Rakata, Rakata will be mostly better although you still want some expertise. Rakata's a tier higher after all.

 

Also, Champ gear is slightly overweighted with crit/surge enhancements.

[SavageBrute]

you BM grinding roflers thinking PvP gear > Pve Gear makes me laugh and poop myself on the inside. For one the stat difference is major; people saying expertise helps is retarded. I MELT.. wait MURDER full bm scrubs w/ full pve all day every day. Its all about knowing how to roll ur cds while maxing out dps. why do you need expertise when u have cds that carry you. lol 8% mitigation + more dmg..yah right G T F O.

 

im sitting at 1920str/20k hp/30% crit when i pvp in my rakata gear and rofl these so called pvprs w/ my so called pve gear.

 

COME AT ME GET MELTED! tick tock tick tock dead. Moving on.

 

Only reason u pvp scrubs should be pvping is for the titles... because that makes u better!

Edited March 5, 2012 by SavageBrute

[EasymodeX]

im sitting at 1920str/20k hp/30% crit when i pvp in my rakata gear and rofl these so called pvprs w/ my so called pve gear.

 

Going from 500 expertise to 0 expertise will reduce your damage by 4.2%, despite your higher STR.

 

Just so you know.

[SavageBrute]

Going from 500 expertise to 0 expertise will reduce your damage by 4.2%, despite your higher STR.

 

Just so you know.

 

>> im sorry but that expertise dmg does nothing compared to my current gear. Sorry to say you need to stop thinking bad.

[EasymodeX]

I'm sorry but you probably don't even know what the stats on your current gear do for your damage.

 

Think badder.

[Gruddy]

im sitting at 1920str/20k hp/30% crit in my rakata gear...

 

SS or shenanigans.

[Pappus]

To quote a part from my own thread to give you guys a lil hint in the right direction:

(tooltips)

Base:

Rupture: 1317 , VT: 2395, Anni: 2866, deadly 595, VS 1577, Mainhand 668-819

Relic (355 power): Rupture: 1451, VT: 2640, Anni 3110, Deadly 661, VS 1709 Mainhand 754-905

Relic+Adrenal(920power):

Rupture: 1664, VT: 3028, Anni 3499, Deadly 768, VS 1919 Mainhand 890-1041

 

%speaking it means 355 power translates into 10% damage increase, while 920 power is 26% dmg increase. For calculus: 0,03% dmg per power (or 0,028...).

 

7 Mainstat is about 10 power last time I heard about it and as I said we would get around 2k mainstat compared to our roughly 1400-1500 strength in full battlemaster.

 

500 more mainstat would then translate into 714 power or 21,42% dmg increase, which we would not have with battlemaster gear. From that we would of course need to deduct 10% due to missing expertise and that would still leave us with 11,42% more dmg. However I don't know for sure how much strength you will obtain via full battlemaster gear, if someone can be bothered, let's hear it then we will know exactly what will happen

 

The difference is, that fully buffed e.g. the inquisitor buff will help us more with more strength, with more bonusdamage, our own buff gets buffed up aswell and that will start to pile up!

 

If the mainstat to power conversion is wrong just redo the calculus for yourself and you will see what it boils down to.

 

If you want to keep using BM gear, that is fine for me - I am not the one being gimped