So why should we even bother play guardian in PvP?

[Ganjimon]

Tank spec is by far the worst in pvp (only decent in hutball). Shadows and Vangaurds have way better skill set to work with, and they do way more damage in tank specs. Don't whine now, that we can put guard on healer, and be uber useful, they can do that as well, and have great cool downs and damage with it.

Rage/Focus spec - you can hit as hard as grav round/tracer missile once in 10 seconds, if you have 4 stacks up - wow uber scary! If you are lucky to land a hit, since you gonna queue your smash up and will hit air once you get knocked back. + the spec has major focus starvation issues.

Vigilance spec - maybe the only viable spec to play, since sustained dps is good, and you get cc immunity on jump, but again with my gear, i have to pop relic and adrenal to get a 2.5-3k crits, where pretty much every other class can pull 3-6k crits out of their *** without any issues. When i hear the damage my guildies do, i just want to delete my ****y guardian.

And yes i have gear, and i know how to play.

Edited February 24, 2012 by Ganjimon

[VoidJustice]

Guardian is not an easy mode class, like most in this game.

It's actually harder than most MMO classes I've ever played and

I've played MMO's since there's been MMO's.

 

Play what makes you happy, it's the only choice.

If they do buff us, it's not going to be over the top.

The reality is that Guardian and Sentinal are really

awesome balanced classes. However, concelors,

troopers and shadows are so over the top "solo"

that ... well... it just feels bad for the average

solo que que er

 

><

 

in any case...

 

When a dps guardian gets a healer to protect and catch

occasional heals from, you can two man a WZ. If anyone else

is paying attention and can play as a team... you'll find yourself

becoming a monster, but not in a totally dps or tanky way.

Were more utility.

 

The real trick to playing an effective guardian...

is learning the really fun playstyle of "GUARDING". Once you

"get it" and find yourself in an organized team, all of a sudden

you realize... your in complete control of the battlefield.

 

Plus... no one can ever say you have no skill and it's just your class

thats op... lol

 

/shrug

Edited February 24, 2012 by VoidJustice

[SteelCross]

Tank spec is by far the worst in pvp (only decent in hutball). Shadows and Vangaurds have way better skill set to work with, and they do way more damage in tank specs. Don't whine now, that we can put guard on healer, and be uber useful, they can do that as well, and have great cool downs and damage with it.

Rage/Focus spec - you can hit as hard as grav round/tracer missile once in 10 seconds, if you have 4 stacks up - wow uber scary! If you are lucky to land a hit, since you gonna queue your smash up and will hit air once you get knocked back. + the spec has major focus starvation issues.

Vigilance spec - maybe the only viable spec to play, since sustained dps is good, and you get cc immunity on jump, but again with my gear, i have to pop relic and adrenal to get a 2.5-3k crits, where pretty much every other class can pull 3-6k crits out of their *** without any issues. When i hear the damage my guildies do, i just want to delete my ****y guardian.

And yes i have gear, and i know how to play.

 

Unfortunately, we excel at things that aren't followed numerically so well. I sort my WZ chart by medals instead of damage, healing, or protection, then I focus on contributing the most. We are so versatile that I can come in halfway through Voidstar on a loss and still come out with the most medals on our team. I feel that, if you look at only one stat, you're missing what we're actually good for. Rarely do I not get at least 1 MVP vote lately, even if I didn't perform well in any particular category. I also spend a lot of time trying to controll the flow of the match. A force push to a healer, slowing a large group of people as we go to move rooms, sticking to a Warrior that has a healer to keep two people very occupied while the rest of my team works. I can't count the number of times I've occupied three or four people long enough that one person can slip up to an objective and cap it when they shouldn't have been able to. If no one's paying attention to me, I try to AoE taunt as much as possible; easy mode for the protection medals.

 

tl;dr We have so many things available to us I've never felt the desire to have the best DPS. It's like saying we're not the best at baseball because we don't have the highest homerun average and ignoring every other aspect of the game.

[Ganjimon]

guardians are not hard to play class, we don't really have to manage our resources like troopers and smugglers. consulars have even better resource system.

My point it, our damage does not scale up, to what other ppl can dish out. Our attacks do like 30-40% less damage then everyone else, that pretty much is a fact. And sentinels can ***** on guardians, sentinels have way better cool downs and damage output.

[Excidium]

Get yourself a healing buddy.

[Ganjimon]

Unfortunately, we excel at things that aren't followed numerically so well. I sort my WZ chart by medals instead of damage, healing, or protection, then I focus on contributing the most. We are so versatile that I can come in halfway through Voidstar on a loss and still come out with the most medals on our team. I feel that, if you look at only one stat, you're missing what we're actually good for. Rarely do I not get at least 1 MVP vote lately, even if I didn't perform well in any particular category. I also spend a lot of time trying to controll the flow of the match. A force push to a healer, slowing a large group of people as we go to move rooms, sticking to a Warrior that has a healer to keep two people very occupied while the rest of my team works. I can't count the number of times I've occupied three or four people long enough that one person can slip up to an objective and cap it when they shouldn't have been able to. If no one's paying attention to me, I try to AoE taunt as much as possible; easy mode for the protection medals.

 

tl;dr We have so many things available to us I've never felt the desire to have the best DPS. It's like saying we're not the best at baseball because we don't have the highest homerun average and ignoring every other aspect of the game.

 

again every class can knock back, most can interrupt and cc. It's nothing unique that only guardians can do. where is our damage? They nerfed surge to hell, and how what are we supposed to do? We lived of surge...

[Ganjimon]

Get yourself a healing buddy.

 

so your answer is " i am so terrible, i need a pocket healer to do anything " ok... you have inspired me. Oh right we all know only guardians can guard healer. Shadows and vanguards can't do that...

[Marqhill]

so your answer is " i am so terrible, i need a pocket healer to do anything " ok... you have inspired me. Oh right we all know only guardians can guard healer. Shadows and vanguards can't do that...

 

He actually has kinda cut to the heart of the matter. If you're a defense spec'ed guardian you should totally guard a healer. When I was defense spec'ed I actually guarded a good friend of mine who is a healer and we kept the entire team alive. They couldn't kill the healer because I protected him too well and they couldn't kill me because my defense was too good and my healer wouldn't let me die. They couldn't kill anyone else on the team because the healer was keeping the whole team alive. Defense spec guardians are good for PvP if you've got a good team put together and you have good team work. If you don't have that then the defense guardian is honestly kind of trash. My recommendation would be if you can't get a reliable healer to PvP with then you should switch to a DPS skill tree. That's what I had to do. When I could get a reliable healer to guard my team would almost always win. But I couldn't always depend on that.

[CapuchinSeven]

Sorry you're just bad.

Queue your rage reply, but ultimately, your post is a QQ post because you can't make the class work for you.

 

Roll something else, we don't need any sort of substantial buff.

[AGSThomas]

In my humble opinion you should do the following:

 

1. Spec for Defense but keep two sets of gear. DPS strength gear for leveling and Warzones and Tank stam/shield gear for Flashpoints. If you do Flashpoints regularly you should have no problem keeping up to date top notch gear.

 

2. When in Warzones, tell yourself over and over that you are a support character. At low levels its hard to even accomplish this. But can offer good supporting DPS. Follow your teammates. Warzones are all about the team. Lets say you are one of these people who say "LMAO BUT DIO ITS SO MUCH EASIER TO MAKE A SORC AND KILL EZ!!" You will see that same sorc off somewhere on his own 1v1ing some person, while the ball carrier/blastdoor/turret is being capped. 1v1's dont help the team win. What helps is number 3.

 

3. Find and taunt enemies engaged in combat with your allies. This is our most powerful ability. Lets take hutt ball for example. Lets say in the beginning of the game you run with your team to the acid pit. You see an enemy and charge in. Bam your already dead, because you chose to attack the first enemy without considering their team has ranged characters who then come up and blow up melee. Now, if you wait for your team to move up first, then commit yourself, well those ranged enemies will have picked different targets allowing you to charge in unnoticed. Aoe Taunt everyone and now you have handicapped their entire team 30% of their DPS as long as they arent attacking you. 30% is huge! After this is accomplished, look for a healer or an ally thats attacking a ranged DPS and help him burn them down.

 

4. Use your cooldowns wisely! As you progress through levels your going to have 4 stuns/interrupts as Defense. its tempting to use them, but hold them for when you get focused. theres plenty of times you will be with your team and all of a sudden the other team will decided you are annoying and focus fire you. This is where your cooldowns will save you and turn the whole battle. That annoying gunslinger on the rafters in huttball, force push him off next to your allies, they will show him what they think of him. A loser trying to cap one of the turrets while you battle his friend? A no need to channel force stasis will take care of that. A healer in voidstar being annoying and healing too much? Hilt strike his face while his taunted allies die.

 

5. Dont guard PUG DPS! It's the fastest way to die. PUG Dps are stupid, they hide in the acid pits in huttball. They also feel more powerful and 1v3 people, now that you are sharing that damage you AND him are dead. Guard a healer, and ONLY if you plan on following that healer around like a shadow to stop DPS from focusing him. Th ehealer will focus on keeping himself alive first, that means you go bye bye unless you can stop the incoming damage from the DPS. Very achievable if you have your 4 stuns and are next to the healer. Not if you are busy 1v1ing some dumb Bounty Hunter.

 

That's about it, to be successful and subsequently feel more powerful, travel with your allies, use cooldowns to max benefit and control/taunt the enemy DPS. Then that sad amazing 1v1 Sorc/BH will wonder why his team got 3 capped in civil war. Don't listen to the negative people in this thread, this class is very powerful but only if used correctly. People saying that the class sucks because their dumb bounty hunter can cast death from above doesnt make them better, it makes it EASIER! Easier does not equal better!!!! Bottom line, when you use the Guardian to its fullest extent you will feel a sense of accomplishment. Death From Above losers feel a sense of boredom.

[camarius]

There are quite a bit of answers in the guardian subsection of this forum..

 

The simplified answer is if you wanted UBER damage guardian shouldn't have been you choice, im not saying we can't put up numbers but the point of a guardian in pvp no matter the spec is to be more of a teammate than a hero... If you are going balls to the wall and jumping into 5 imps then wondering why you are not wtfpwning them its because you aren't really suppose to.. We wear heavy armor and have the ability to PREVENT other players dmg... Name any other class that can pretty much on cooldown reduce every enemy in the areas dmg by 30% or (in later levels) the best aoe cc in the game... The fact of the matter is yes we could use some love but not because we are sooooo pitiful... The class isn't easy mode but its not because its bad... Unfortunately it seems like you should have gone the way of the sentinel... Im sorry but dont look for sympathy from this forum who has guardians that do extremely well ... Thats the.jist of it... If I wasn't typing on my phone id say more.. But I'm ready for discussion... Also check out the guardian threads theres great info in there

[sehart]

 

When in Warzones, tell yourself over and over that you are a support character.

 

 

This^^ I bother playing PvP as a Guardian because it's fun.

 

I have a 41 def spec guardian (not claiming to be awesome at PvP) and once I made my priority taking as much damage through guard/taunt while doing what damage I can and focusing on the objectives you end up with a very well rounded stat-line at the end.

 

And maybe I just don't play with very many good tank shadows/vanguards, but 9 times out of 10 my Protection damage is higher than any one else.

[Axethales]

The issue isn't that we do poor DPS.

 

As a Guardian we are not to be doing DPS, we are to be guarding as the name implies.

 

The issue is that our damage mitigation and absorbtion is piss poor.

 

We take 100% internal damage, force damage etc...

 

Our defensive abilities only block real aka kinetic damage.

 

Until that is fixed - my Guardian is on hold.

 

Taking it to the face from a caster while wearing a full set of PvP champion gear is not my idea of fun.

 

EVERY other MMO - and yes I've played them all - cloth wearers avoid you like the plague, not out of fear of you DPS'ing them down, but because their efforts should be focused on killing DPS and healers since they would *never* be able to do enough damage to you alone to kill you. They most certainly would not sit in your face bubbled up casting damage spells bursting you down.

Edited February 24, 2012 by Axethales

[Valorn]

I started a guardian and the PvP is...painful sub-20.

 

The reasons I've divined so far...

1) You don't have some key CC abilities like Awe, Push & Stasis, the latter builds focus

2) You don't have key ranged attacks like Saber Throw & Dispatch

3) Don't have the added mobility of guardian leap

4) Don't have the talent points to get key pvp utility, like the extra charge, better focus generation, or survivability.

 

(Yes, I know Dispatch is only 10m, but I played Powertech a lot and 10m is a perfectly fine range to avoid getting kited and continually doing damage in most cases).

 

That short list alone means you're going to get kited six ways from Sunday and have little options in doing damage/building focus.

 

In addition to the above problems, Low level Guardian PvP also has focus building issues, mostly due to not having a fleshed out talent tree.

 

You can't use the tank stance because you don't have the focus building talents in it, like the one that reduces sweep & blade by 1 whenever you defense an attack, nor does it have the reduced internal cooldown of Soresu forum down to 3 seconds to build a focus instead of the default 6. Switching into tank stance kills your builders and the damage.

 

 

I expect it to get better at levels 22-26, where I can get the CC immunity after a force charge, which will stop the immediate charge->knockback situations from inquisitors and mercs. Also the 4 focus on stun/sleep/knockdown is something else I spec'd into.

 

 

Basically as you get the abilities I listed above and as you get more talent points I expect Guardian to get a lot better in PvP, but so far it is the most painful, least-effective class in PvP sub mid-20's. Its only key value is the ability to aoe-snare people and act as a distraction. Damage is limited due to getting kited and not having much time on target. Survivability is low due to not having the talents/abilities. I think that will change, but not noticably until 30's and 40's.

 

 

Interestingly enough, the Sniper was one of the most effective I ever played in PvP at low levels. You get the execute, punt, and entrench abillities in the teens, so you have all of the core abilities you need to do your job.

 

The Guardian doesn't get their core abilities to do their job until much later, and they are heavily reliant on talents.

 

I'll ride it out some more and see how it improves.

 

By comparison, the Powertech I leveled also had difficulty at these lower levels, but it was less noticable since most of my attacks were 10m-30m.

[Solonius]

Threads like these make me laugh.

[Richoshist]

As a Guardian we are not to be doing DPS, we are to be guarding as the name implies.

 

Unless you're a defensive specced guardian this isn't true. Don't get me wrong, we should be using guard on others depending on the situation, and we should be using taunts all the time. But there are plenty of Shii-cho and Shien guardians out there doing very well in a damage role. This is purely a playstyle choice.

 

The issue is that our damage mitigation and absorbtion is piss poor.

 

This IS true. We are meant to support others, but somehow that means sacrificing our own "tankiness." We're pretty squishy.

[VoidJustice]

O yes ...

 

please note pre 40 guardians IMHO are MUCH harder than other classes...

Don't feel bad, it's truly not you. However, don't use this as an excuse not

to try really hard and continue learning for level 46 where you will become!!!!

As good as everyone else for 4 WHOLE levels before ... well... lulz

At 50 + gear and a pocket healer we dominate faces.

 

I have no idea about our brethern sentinals... although looks harder... they seem

to die much faster and their dps seems not so much higher than dps guards... anyway Im no sent expert..

Edited February 24, 2012 by VoidJustice

[Cappadin]

As a dps guardian, I constantly top damage charts in warzones. The only time I am not topping the chart is when there are equally geared ranged classes.. I dont take offense to this or begin to think i am gimped because A. a ranged doesnt have to chase down its targets to continue putting out damage, and B. Or aoe dps is considerably less than other classes. WHO CARES? Single target dps wins games when you select the right targets.. shien form guardians put out the most single target dps besides sentinels IMO Edited February 24, 2012 by Cappadin

[Ganjimon]

Threads like these make me laugh.

 

so witch class can you outdps?

can you do more damage then gunslinger? no

can you do more damage then scoundrel? no

can you do more damage then commando? no

can you do more damage then assault or tactics vanguard? no

can you do more damage then sentinel? lol no

can you do more damage then sage? don't ask

can you do more damage then shadow? hell no

[aeterno]

Guardians have a dirty little secret...

 

It's obscenely easy to get medals with them. And I mean obscenely.

 

Under 10 medals in a match is a bad day at the office. More than half of them you get without ever even trying, just by playing as a productive member of your team - without 1v1 or killing strike chasing.

 

That outweighs any miniscule performance shortcoming they allegedly have.

 

I say allegedly cos there isn't a class out there I'm not able to take 1v1 in my focuse specced guardian. Easiest of all are sorcerers that think they can simply stand still and outheal me.

And when I'm happy with my damage and crit hit output a vigilance guy strolls buy putting my numbers to shame with his dot.

 

 

Infact, imho the classes only saving grace that prevents it getting the nerf hammer treatment is that's playing it is like playing a piano at times. Ergo for every guardian/jugg that dominates a match you have several that are struggling.

Edited February 25, 2012 by aeterno

[Ganjimon]

I say allegedly cos there isn't a class out there I'm not able to take 1v1 in my focuse specced guardian. Easiest of all are sorcerers that think they can simply stand still and outheal me.

So you how beat a operative or a shadow who open up on you, and you lose half of your health instantly? When they open up with 5.4 and 3.4 crits on you back to back, the game is over...

[aeterno]

So you how beat a operative or a shadow who open up on you, and you lose half of your health instantly? When they open up with 5.4 and 3.4 crits on you back to back, the game is over...

 

That obviosuly depends on the cooldowns. Ofc. you can get demolished under certain circumstances but it wroks both ways. My point wasn't that guardians can't be beaten but that they can be just as effective as any other class (if not more).

 

If a guardian instigates and engages under hisown terms and uses his abilities to sucesfully control the engagement he can chain two 5-6k+ crits (plus the accompaniying damage output of exaust, leap, push etc.) at which point any enemy can kiss their tooshie goodbye as they're in dispatch range.

 

A good player can partialy counter and limit you to one fully buffed crit if he has the proper knockbacks off cooldown and gets the timing just right. Then again if you pop a trinket on an operative opening and take control of the fight you're looking even better.

Edited February 25, 2012 by aeterno

[Herew]

so witch class can you outdps?

can you do more damage then gunslinger? YES

can you do more damage then scoundrel? YES

can you do more damage then commando? Sometimes

can you do more damage then assault or tactics vanguard? YES

can you do more damage then sentinel? no

can you do more damage then sage? no

can you do more damage then shadow? YES

 

For focus guardians the above is mostly true. If your PuGing ranged tend to have a slight advantage because they are less likely to be targeted. Commandos and BH's tend to roll gunnery/arsenal which is focused around one easily interuptable ability. A well played sage/sorc does admittedly do insane amounts of damage. Shadows don't do particularly good DPS. Good sentinels are insane, but there aren't a lot of them around.

 

If you are having issues getting high damage with a focus guardian it's really a L2P issue, or everyone else on your server is just amazing.

[Ganjimon]

That obviosuly depends on the cooldowns. Ofc. you can get demolished under certain circumstances but it wroks both ways. My point wasn't that guardians can't be beaten but that they can be just as effective as any other class (if not more).

 

If a guardian instigates and engages under hisown terms and uses his abilities to sucesfully control the engagement he can chain two 5-6k+ crits (plus the accompaniying damage output of exaust, leap, push etc.) at which point any enemy can kiss their tooshie goodbye as they're in dispatch range.

 

A good player can partialy counter and limit you to one fully buffed crit if he has the proper knockbacks off cooldown and gets the timing just right. Then again if you pop a trinket on an operative opening and take control of the fight you're looking even better.

what cool downs? you are so full of it...

Ok i force push him back, leap to him (he stuns you again ofc, but let's pretend that he does not) build up your charges AND HIT HIM FOR ALMOST 4k!!!!! but yeah at that point you don't have any health left, to charge another sweep...

[Ganjimon]

Shadows don't do particularly good DPS.

yeah hitting ppl for 7-10k (post surge nerf) with charged up projectile is not good damage at all...