Sorcs and Sages need 2 Stances so they cannot Heal and DPS at the same time.

[Kalliadies]

If they are spec'd into CC, they aren't doing much healing - if at all.

 

Hard to kill? lol, oh noes, a 3k bubble with light armor.

 

AOE damage? lol

 

Single target? Who doesn't? But it's also one of the lowest burst in the game.

 

Bad's are bad's.

 

Read it again skippy, Hard to kill through skill set. Being hard to kill doesnt always have to do with ability to take hits. Suddenly getting focused? Bubble, force sprint, line of sight and heal

Edited February 24, 2012 by Kalliadies

[Dudious]

pretty sure he was talking about how other classes dont have such an abundance as sorcs/sages have......sins/shadows got 100 force....jugs/sents got 12 focus (each skill that uses focus cost around 2-4).....snipers/scoundrel got 100 energy (has a way slower recovery rate than sins)...trooper gets 12 ammo...dunno bout bounty hunters....and correct me if im wrong dont sorcs/sages get like 500 force? do you see the unbalance now?

 

Reallly? I've got to say this again?

 

Every class (including the ones listed in the post I originally quoted) have resource free heals and attacks. Sorcs/Sages do not, hence the NEED to have more resources to play with.

 

I mean seriously - how is no-one else seeing this?

[MacOda]

Bad's are bad's.

 

 

Ahh...one of the standard response for those that have no real legitimate response...

 

 

Bads are bads

 

L2P

 

I am spec'd 31/31/31 like all Sorcs/Sages

 

Just interrupt

[Jebi]

Read it again skippy, Hard to kill through skill set. Being hard to kill doesnt always have to do with ability to take hits. Suddenly getting focus? Bubble, force sprint, line of sight and heal

 

And most classes have stuns, slows, or cc of their own... don't spam it at the start of the fight like a noob, when they click sprint, boom - cc, sprint wasted.

 

My mar, my merc, and my sin eat sorcerers for breakfast.

 

What the problem again?

 

User error by the sounds of it.

Edited February 24, 2012 by Jebi

[Jebi]

Ahh...one of the standard response for those that have no real legitimate response...

 

Yeah, cause making outlandish claims like 500k damage and 500k healing like the OP is clearly where it's at.

 

Truth hurts, you're bad.

 

I am spec'd 31/31/31 like all Sorcs/Sages

 

Apparently sorcerer's are all spec'd 38/38/38 according to all the scrubs.

Edited February 24, 2012 by Jebi

[Tumri]

If they are spec'd into CC, they aren't doing much healing - if at all. (pro-tip bubble counts as healing, and if they get decent healing on a chart, it's because they are bubbling OTHER people - oh no!)

 

Hard to kill? lol, oh noes, a 3k bubble with light armor. So hard...

 

AOE damage? lol

 

Single target? Who doesn't? But it's also one of the lowest burst in the game.

 

Bad's are bad's.

 

Sorcerers and sages are one of the easiest class to kill endgame, unless they are spec'd into healing, but then they have low damage and low cc.

 

I'll just copy-paste this here. It's unbelievable the number of Sorcerers that don't even know how their bubble functions and how it compares to mitigation. 99% of Sorcerers I've seen on forums and in games have no idea their bubble even scales with health and healing power(from Willpower and Power).

 

Static Barrier Math(PvP)

 

 

16k+3.5k(Static Barrier) = 19.5k w/16% mitigation = L (Light Armor)

 

16k+0 = 16k w/24% mitigation = M (Medium Armor)

 

16k+0 = 16k w/30% mitigation = H (Heavy Armor)

 

-------------------------

 

 

20k damage(6k internal/elemental) in 20 seconds:

 

L = 11,760(Kinetic/Energy) + 6k(Internal/Elemental) = 1740 health remaining

 

M = 10,640(Kinetic/Energy) + 6k(Internal/Elemental) = -640 health remaining

 

H = 9,800(Kinetic/Energy) + 6k(Internal/Elemental) = 200 health remaining

 

 

40k damage(12k Internal/Elemental) in 20 seconds:

 

L = 23,520(Kinetic/Energy) + 12k(Internal/Elemental) = -16,020

 

M = 21,280(Kinetic/Energy) + 12k(Internal/Elemental) = -17,280

 

H = 19,600(Kinetic/Energy) + 12k(Internal/Elemental) = -15,600

 

Conclusion:

 

Now think about this for a second. When will you reasonably be taking 40k damage in 20 seconds? Keep in mind PvE DPS on a stationary target is around 1500DPS for most classes. In PvP you can reasonably expect a player to do ~1k DPS to a human target. For Sorcerers with a single bubble to have less mitigation than the Heavy armored classes with the most physical mitigation in the game two well geared players would need to beat on the Sorcerer for a full 20 seconds without interruption. If a Sorcerer manages to cast a second bubble from having one pre-cast prior to this happening then the Heavy armor is better at an astonishing 80k over 20 seconds. With this in mind it is safe to assume that Sorcerer light armor is more than made up for by Static Barrier.

 

Static Barrier is not overpowered. It is also not underpowered. With the above information in mind and a lack of offensive dispels in the game we can count Static Barrier as a counterbalance to Light armor. Sorcerers are no squishier than any other class because of Static Barrier and therefore extensive CC compared to other classes is not justified by their Light armor.

 

7. A bubble that provides between 3.5-4.5k absorption. Since average health pools are on average about 16k this can be looked at as an instant 20%-30%+ health gain on a 20 second cooldown. They have light armor but this skill makes them far tankier than most DPS specced players in any situation where the players aren't receiving external heals for extended periods of time and even then it's pretty much outright better than heavy armor. This bubble is not overpowered as it's essentially a counterbalance to their light armor. What makes it over powered is the talented CC that comes with it(More on that below). [static Barrier]

 

[static Barrier Absorb = 16.4% Maximum Health + 3.27 * Healing Power] - Source: http://www.torhead.com/ability/VIBtDV/static-barrier - See "Effect Details" and scroll down to "Action"(Subeffect 1)

Edited February 24, 2012 by Tumri

[Kalliadies]

And most classes have stuns, slows, or cc of their own.

 

My mar, my merc, and my sin eat sorcerers for breakfast.

 

Question is, why are you so bad?

 

My question is why doesnt a point get through your head

 

congradulations you can kill them, guess what so can I. But compared to other classes they still dont have a real DEFINING weakness (PvP)

 

Maruder - melee, sort of heal, but not really

Sniper - imobile burst, no escape, cant heal

operative, single target melee

juggernaught - melee, cant heal

Edited February 24, 2012 by Kalliadies

[Jebi]

My question is why doesnt a point get through your head

 

congradulations you can kill them, they still dont have a real weakness

 

I can kill them easily on any class I play.

 

Yet, they are overpowered and need a nerf, simply because people like you think all sorcerers are magically spec'd 38/38/38.

 

Yup.

 

PS congratulations doesn't have a d.

 

I'll just copy-paste this here.

 

Do you even get time to play the game, considering how much time you spend crusading against sorcerer's on the forums?

Edited February 24, 2012 by Jebi

[Tumri]

Apparently sorcerer's are all spec'd 38/38/38 according to all the scrubs.

 

 

Deathmark Hybrid

Forked Lightning Hybrid

 

Yes. 38/38/38 specs indeed. You could argue their base healing capabilities are being exaggerated when not using a hybrid heal spec but that's about it. Your base healing ability is the best in the game by the way. No other class can do it better without being specced.

[MacOda]

Truth hurts, you're bad.

 

 

That is a great arugment, super baddie bad bad.

[wwkingms]

A stance for Healing/Lightning/Madness might work. It would fix the hybrid spec issue I guess.

 

anything this dude says is irrelevant

 

 

he's the biggest nerf finger pointer in the forums and probably cant play his own class

 

 

 

 

if sorcs get stances then i better here ops and mercs in the same convo..

 

if not ur just the same anti sorc qqers that i always see who dont know anything about real pvp

[jonnyshadow]

Reallly? I've got to say this again?

 

Every class (including the ones listed in the post I originally quoted) have resource free heals and attacks. Sorcs/Sages do not, hence the NEED to have more resources to play with.

 

I mean seriously - how is no-one else seeing this?

 

technically some of the sorcs resources are uneeded

force speed: id say needed (they use light armor)

bubble:needed (they use light armor thats why)

knock back:needed (they use light armor)

knock back root: unneeded (very unnecessary)

healing+dpsing: unneeded (this is what the topic is currently about)

large force pool: unneeded (they should have limits just like every other class max id say should be 200 make you sorcs use you skills more wisely just like every other class,minus the lovely TM spammers)

more skill to play the class: needed

[Doubtless]

I play sage and i support this.

[Jebi]

That is a great arugment, super baddie bad bad.

 

Glad you agree.

 

PS what's an arugment?

[Kalliadies]

I can kill them easily on any class I play.

 

Yet, they are overpowered and need a nerf, simply because people like you think all sorcerers are magically spec'd 38/38/38.

 

Yup.

 

PS congratulations doesn't have a d.

 

If you are going to respond to me, Do not mistake other posters opinions for mine. Actually respond to words I have written.

 

You will find that I didnt say they were OP. You will only find that I said "They Have NO defining weakness"

 

Infact the only change I mentioned was making force speed assasin only

 

Way to get massively defensive about Sorcs man

Edited February 24, 2012 by Kalliadies

[Durasturan]

I can get behind this for healing stance for Sorcs, and that stance be required to use the bubble, and Force Speed be forbidden in that stance.

 

What would this even accomplish? Healers can't use Force speed and Bubble, just get one? Are you willing to give them bonus healing or bonus HP like EVERYONE ELSE that has a stance gets when they are in one of their stances? Did you put ANY thought into this at all?

[whostolemyepyon]

So the OP's issue is that Sorcs can break 300k heals and/or damage in warzones? So the answer is to lock them into a certain stance? Well ok...apply it to everyone.

 

Tanks can only dps or guard, all heals can only dps or heal etc.

 

These damn "nerf class X because I can solo roll them" is sad. PvP is not about 1v1 its all team work. You really think a sage/sorc can 1v3 and win? Haha shows how little you really know about the class.

 

Everyone just needs to quit with the QQ crap and focus on team work. No matter how much class X, Y, Z gets nerfed there will always be some class you can solo w/o any effort. Once everyone is @ 50 in champ + gear its all about player skill.

[Ewgal]

I think the Sage/Sorc dps/heal hybrid is unfair to other classes who cannot do the same actions so easily. One or the other, that's the way it is for the rest.

[jonnyshadow]

GUYS GUYS GUYS this isnt a nerf sorc its a simple proposal of making sorcs more focused on either healing or dpsing by creating stances which i find would be better for everyone except for people who want to keep on healing/dpsing and in the stances they either cant heal in the dpsing stance and in the healing stance there dps is lowered 30% (think it is like that for tanks) but in order to balance this out in the dpsing stance they get a bubble absorbance reduction BUT they can do more damage i think that would be the only fair thing since THEY ARE IN LIGHT ARMOR Edited February 24, 2012 by jonnyshadow

[Wesleyhjw]

GUYS GUYS GUYS this isnt a nerf sorc its a simple proposal of making sorcs more focused on either healing or dpsing by creating stances which i find would be better for everyone except for people who want to keep on healing/dpsing

 

sure. but make sure every other class and specs get the same treatment

[Tumri]

anything this dude says is irrelevant

 

 

he's the biggest nerf finger pointer in the forums and probably cant play his own class

 

 

 

 

if sorcs get stances then i better here ops and mercs in the same convo..

 

if not ur just the same anti sorc qqers that i always see who dont know anything about real pvp

 

I like how you cry whenever I post simply because I have a decent argument against Sorcerers and all of your nonsensical arguments were obliterated in my thread.

 

You have no idea what you're talking about 99% of the time.

 

Bounty Hunter "Stances" aka. Cylinders:

 

http://www.torhead.com/ability/1A9VFK6/high-energy-gas-cylinder

http://www.torhead.com/ability/exIwNo8/combat-support-cylinder

http://www.torhead.com/ability/3SQar1G/ion-gas-cylinder

http://www.torhead.com/ability/gvSqk6E/high-velocity-gas-cylinder

http://www.torhead.com/ability/2j2rncu/combustible-gas-cylinder

 

Operatives are limited in healing despite their lack of a "stance" mechanic because their heals use up literally 25-50% of their entire resource bar because they're balanced around constant regeneration from talented regen mechanics.

Edited February 24, 2012 by Tumri

[Sylvarine]

They don't need stances at all, they just need to rework the hybrid spec. In it's current form, they have entirely too much cc. It's almost like playing a merc, easymode ftw. Fix the resolve system to work with roots/snares.. a lot of the qq with sorcs will disappear.

[Evuke]

Deathmark Hybrid

Forked Lightning Hybrid

 

Yes. 38/38/38 specs indeed. You could argue their base healing capabilities are being exaggerated when not using a hybrid heal spec but that's about it. Your base healing ability is the best in the game by the way. No other class can do it better without being specced.

 

Neither of those specs have any healing tree in them though, so all a sorc would have is the 2 default sage (long cooldown, high force) heals. One you can interrupt and the other is on such a long cast it's pretty much unusable.

[Durasturan]

They don't need stances at all, they just need to rework the hybrid spec. In it's current form, they have entirely too much cc. It's almost like playing a merc, easymode ftw. Fix the resolve system to work with roots/snares.. a lot of the qq with sorcs will disappear.

 

Inq's have the most CC, lol, do you really believe that or are you just jumping on the bandwagon? Inq's do NOT have the most CC, not by a long shot, they do low damage, have NO burst. Honestly it's a joke class. I' faceroll them on my Powertech and Mara.

[AntoniusDelitan]

I'll just copy-paste this here. It's unbelievable the number of Sorcerers that don't even know how their bubble functions and how it compares to mitigation. 99% of Sorcerers I've seen on forums and in games have no idea their bubble even scales with health and healing power(from Willpower and Power).

 

You're wrong. Bubble scales with healing power only. Not health.

 

From Torhead.com - At level 50, Static Barrier absorbs 1162 + 327% of Force Healing Bonus before talents.

 

 

Also, your calculations putting light armor + bubble = Medium armor = heavy armor are wrong.

 

A sorc in full PvP gear barely tops 16k HP. A jugg in PvP gear is commonly sporting over 23k. It's a simple fact you quite conveniently forgot to mention. Redo your time to live calculations accordingly.

Edited February 24, 2012 by AntoniusDelitan