Just tried out Carnage

[THEMARD]

Sup,

 

80% of the time I am speced Annihilation. Just tried Carnage out for the first time fully geared with Champ gear. Its actually not too bad, you still get a big number hit with Force Scream critting between 2.5k-3.3k. Also the Berserk ability is insane!! .5 GCD on Massacre with 1 rage cost!!! (Basically you need 4 seconds and 7 rage) That bust damage from this DESTROYS people especially if you use it right after Gore. I had a full resolve bar and jumped on a pretty decently geared sorc, took him down from full to Execute range with-in 4 seconds. The sustained damage is kind of lacking though.

 

Wondering your guys thought on it. I still think Annihilation is superior especially if you don't have a pocket healer. But Carnage seems crazy ****** when you got a pocket healer on your side.

 

Also I did not spec overwhelm (Top of the tree that makes it so Ravage immobilizes the target for the duration) anyone know how good this works? I heard it was bugged a while back.

 

Talent Tree:

http://www.torhead.com/skill-calc#1000cZGGrbddroMsZG.1

[CrazyAl]

carnage isnt bad at all, id even call it a good spec, i still wreck people when i play carnage (even in pugs w/o heals)

 

its just not as good as annihilation

[leeroyclarkson]

This is really funny, i just specced anni after leveling up and playing nothing but carnage since the beginning. I actually tried it once before but didnt give it a proper chance, I must say, I now fully see the benfits of both specs fully. I have been anni for about 3 days now and just learned all of my custom key binds and its pretty awesome. I love the healing and didnt realize how unblievable much you can get healed. I solo 2 man with Jaesa now, she is in full tinoese and I am in columi and i bearely have to stop. Plus the undying rage + rakata medpack + berserk will absoultely ruin anyones day in pvp. That being said, here is the downside.

I play EV and KP as my raids go to damage dealer, anni can do awesome damage, but its not instant. If i have to refocus on a mind trap its WAYYYYY slower than when I was carnage. I usually would keep gore and ravage ready and BOOM, dead mind trap, but building up the dots take a little bit. Its also a hellva rage hungry spec but great fury, carnage is the opposite.

 

Drop enraged charge, you get craploads of rage from CoP and Cloak of Carnage. Overwhelm absoultely wrecks someone, even in a 1v1, unless thier resolve bar is full, a gore + ravage = 50% heavy armor user in an opener. It doesnt always work granted but its well worth it.

 

Also in pve displacement allows you to savage kick a silver and lower, with a vicious throw. it also rocks in pvp. I really miss the mobility and the constant 15% run speed in carnage.

[Garroda]

I have been ping ponging between Anni and Carnage since I hit 50. My personal take is that given all my abilities are off of GCD. (i.e. the beginning of the fight) I prefer Carnage. In all other cases, I prefer Anni.

 

So, since all abilities off of GCD is the less frequent situation I find myself in, I prefer Anni hands down. Carnage is still good, but the nature of the spec forces you to focus your rotation choices around Force Scream. Anni gives you more options, and thus is slightly more complicated to play.

[TheRealTorrne]

carnage isnt bad at all, id even call it a good spec, i still wreck people when i play carnage (even in pugs w/o heals)

 

its just not as good as annihilation

 

This. I have nothing against carnage. I leveled annihilation and then specced carnage as soon as I hit 50. I had a blast with it, it was probably the most fun I've had with my character to date.

 

I am in Ops more than anything lately, so I'm basically annihilation always. It doesn't bother me, I still thoroughly enjoy my character. I think I'll probably do Carnage again soon though, it's very fun.

Edited February 23, 2012 by TheRealTorrne

[Enochx]

i am only level 35 mind you, but I played anni all the way and then switched to carnage about a week ago. I say carnage is superior. In pvp and pve. In pve because well Quinn. I just got Jaessa so I ahven't played with her, but I assume that while I am killing one guy she can kill the other in which case why not carnage?

 

In pvp I kill all who I survey. WIth anni, it took longer to kill...sure I killed, but it took a little longer. With carnage they don't know what hit them and they die. When their buddies come up to gang me, I pop camo and run back to my boys. They keep them busy until my cooldowns are done and them POP POP POP. republic bodies hit the floor.

 

Lord Tyberrius Khane shall be Carnage from hence forth....(unless I try rage and dig it.)

[LordPie]

I tried leveling as a carnage, but it was a lot harder to take down higher level players as well as strong+ mobs than it is for me now with annihilation. Carnage is good burst, but if you pop your cooldowns without a kill it's gg. As an anni, your goal is/should be to keep up deadly blades and stack it 3 times along with a 4th rupture dot for 4 ticks of internal damage over a decent amount of time as far as dots go. Once I get my 4 dots, choke, and ravage out of the way the enemy is either dead or close to being so.

[Enochx]

I tried leveling as a carnage, but it was a lot harder to take down higher level players as well as strong+ mobs than it is for me now with annihilation. Carnage is good burst, but if you pop your cooldowns without a kill it's gg. As an anni, your goal is/should be to keep up deadly blades and stack it 3 times along with a 4th rupture dot for 4 ticks of internal damage over a decent amount of time as far as dots go. Once I get my 4 dots, choke, and ravage out of the way the enemy is either dead or close to being so.

 

See I disagree. After I pop all poppers, if they are not dead yet then I force choke them which keeps them from doing anything AND gives me rage and time for CD's, then if I have to I will throw a disruption. By then at least something of mine is cooldowned and then I just start popping as they light up with a force scream whenever bloodfrenzy is up. I love it more than anni.

 

Of course I felt just as effective with anni, just with carnage it is over so fast people are like..."*** just happened to me?" with anni everyone is liek "MAN ANNI IS TOO OP'ED." lol.

 

I took down two different well geared for their levels sorc at lvl 35 duels last night. I beat them both with zero problems. They thought I got lucky so they challenged me again and BAMM. got them again with almost half of my health still there. no healers, no medkits. just me and my sabers. I don't think you are supposed to be able to do that against sorcs. everyone I talk to say that sorcs are just WAY too overpowered. I laugh at them as I kill them all. i'm telling you, if you play it right carnage can be far superior...at least to me anyway.

[malispar]

Carnage is super fun, but Ataru strikes just aren't strong enough compared to bleeds, and Massacre hits much weaker than Annihilate. I also enjoy the playstyle, it's just Anni's self heals via bleeds are just so strong.

 

Now, if Carnage had more damage reduction like the Rage tree does, it would definitely come out on top.

[dcgregorya]

its just not as good as annihilation

 

Pretty much this. I find DoT's a lot more liberating.

[cosmov]

Problem with carnage is that you need high time on target to be succesfull with it and with all cc and knockback its aint happening.It also highly reliant on gore so if you use gore and get knockback you are screwed.While anni have dots and dots dont need to chase target.

[Ballfro]

Not entirely true. If you use Gore and get knocked back, use force camouflage and scream when in range, since blood frenzy will probably be up from the Battering Assault you do before Gore. Most of the time they will knock you back after using Battering assault, in which case that's fine because force camo and your right back on them with 8 Rage, Gore then go to town. I do a ton of damage as carnage, but it's the 1 spec of the 3 that takes the most patience and skill to play because of everything we have to do in order to achieve great results. Stick with it, im telling you when the stars align and you pop a force scream for 5500, you're gonna feel pretty good

[Ballfro]

Carnage is super fun, but Ataru strikes just aren't strong enough compared to bleeds, and Massacre hits much weaker than Annihilate. I also enjoy the playstyle, it's just Anni's self heals via bleeds are just so strong.

 

Now, if Carnage had more damage reduction like the Rage tree does, it would definitely come out on top.

 

Massacre hits 2 times. I have crit 2500x2 on Massacre plus the Ataru form strike for almost 2k. Not sure where you see this as weak compared to Annihilate especially considering you can spam it because of the low rage cost. If you pop berserk and have full rage you can burn someone from full HP to 0 within seconds using nothing but Massacre.

[cosmov]

Not entirely true. If you use Gore and get knocked back, use force camouflage and scream when in range, since blood frenzy will probably be up from the Battering Assault you do before Gore. Most of the time they will knock you back after using Battering assault, in which case that's fine because force camo and your right back on them with 8 Rage, Gore then go to town. I do a ton of damage as carnage, but it's the 1 spec of the 3 that takes the most patience and skill to play because of everything we have to do in order to achieve great results. Stick with it, im telling you when the stars align and you pop a force scream for 5500, you're gonna feel pretty good

 

And if you got knocked down the ledge and cant charge back then what?As anni i would dot him up before he knockes me down so its not that big deal.And self heals really help.

 

Carnage is good,but anni is better all around.

[Ballfro]

And if you got knocked down the ledge and cant charge back then what?As anni i would dot him up before he knockes me down so its not that big deal.And self heals really help.

 

Carnage is good,but anni is better all around.

 

And exactly how many dots can you get off before your knocked back? Don't forget that anyone who can knock you back can also heal themselves, so while your trying to get back to them, they are full health again. You are talking about a completely different issue with Marauders in general when it comes to being knocked back off a ledge or something. I have posted a thread concerning that issue and a potential fix, if the dev's think it's worthwhile. You can find that here ->

 

http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=324055

[cosmov]

And exactly how many dots can you get off before your knocked back? Don't forget that anyone who can knock you back can also heal themselves, so while your trying to get back to them, they are full health again. You are talking about a completely different issue with Marauders in general when it comes to being knocked back off a ledge or something. I have posted a thread concerning that issue and a potential fix, if the dev's think it's worthwhile. You can find that here ->

 

http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=324055

 

Both of them,its usualy 3-5k over 6 seconds.If there is no ledges marauder will screw any caster,bar sniper,quite easily esp as annihilation anyway.And yes,against snipers carnage is far better than anni.

I doubt they will implement that idea of yours.And anyway we dont realy need even more abilities,i`d rather have same talent as juggers have that make them cc immune on force charge deep in carnage.

[Ballfro]

You would rather have an ability that puts distance between you and your target? Are you serious? What we need is more abilities to stay ON our target. And I also call BS on you getting BOTH bleeds off. You have time to force charge someone, then use a global cooldown, and strike them 3 times to get 3 stacks of Deadly Sabre before they realize they have a Marauder on them and they should knock you back? Either your fighting people who are complete idiots or you're lying. Any good Sorc will knock you back the second you charge them. There is no way your charging, putting down all your bleeds, and attacking through 3 GC's before they realize you're there and knock you back.

[cosmov]

You would rather have an ability that puts distance between you and your target? Are you serious? What we need is more abilities to stay ON our target. And I also call BS on you getting BOTH bleeds off. You have time to force charge someone, then use a global cooldown, and strike them 3 times to get 3 stacks of Deadly Sabre before they realize they have a Marauder on them and they should knock you back? Either your fighting people who are complete idiots or you're lying. Any good Sorc will knock you back the second you charge them. There is no way your charging, putting down all your bleeds, and attacking through 3 GC's before they realize you're there and knock you back.

 

No i want ability that gives 3 sec cc immunity after you used charge,also you use deadly saber before charge,not after,and when you connect to your target you use rupture immediately.

Edited February 24, 2012 by cosmov

[Ballfro]

No i want ability that gives 3 sec cc immunity after you used charge,also you use deadly saber before charge,not after,and when you connect to your target you use rupture immediately.

 

In a perfect world, yes. You also dont get knock backed in that world as well, but this is not that world. Players are smart, especially once they get to about valor rank 40. I RARELY get anything else off after charging someone before im CC'd or knocked back. Maybe its me, maybe im just that unlucky, but more and more players are ready for it. Which is why we dont need damage immunity, we need immunity to knockbacks and pulls for a brief period. How is if fair for someone to be able to just walk away from your smash area as a Rage Marauder or Jugg? You just spent 7-10 seconds setting that up, and now you just wasted it because they can simply just walk away from it.

[Xerain]

You would rather have an ability that puts distance between you and your target? Are you serious? What we need is more abilities to stay ON our target. And I also call BS on you getting BOTH bleeds off. You have time to force charge someone, then use a global cooldown, and strike them 3 times to get 3 stacks of Deadly Sabre before they realize they have a Marauder on them and they should knock you back? Either your fighting people who are complete idiots or you're lying. Any good Sorc will knock you back the second you charge them. There is no way your charging, putting down all your bleeds, and attacking through 3 GC's before they realize you're there and knock you back.

 

this guy is right...

 

If you're charging into a class you know has a knockback... well you're doing it wrong, never open with the charge outright.

[cosmov]

this guy is right...

 

If you're charging into a class you know has a knockback... well you're doing it wrong, never open with the charge outright.

 

Its not always an option to stealth or bumrush ranged class,then charge is only solution.And anni have it on shorter cd.Granted,against sniper carnage is much better,otherwise anni outperforms.

[Ballfro]

I have yet to see an Annihilation Marauder outperform me in a WZ. The only time is if he has his own healer with him. I also tear them down before their DoTs can even do much to me. If you DoT me for 3-5k over 10 seconds, i'll do the same amount in 2 seconds. My Gore+Scream is guaranteed 3500+ crit followed by a Ravage that you cant run from which crits for 1800+/2200+/3k+ per hit(thats first hit/second hit/third hit), followd by a force choke, then its Deadly Throw for the win. Annihilation spec is the spec people go for because its safe. It makes them feel good to know they are getting healed a little. I would rather have them dead before any heals are needed, and thats usually what happens.

[Xerain]

Its not always an option to stealth or bumrush ranged class,then charge is only solution.And anni have it on shorter cd.Granted,against sniper carnage is much better,otherwise anni outperforms.

 

oh so the option is run to them sitting on the top tier in huttball or charge to them? Three words! Line Of Sight. Same goes with sniper.

[Xerain]

I have yet to see an Annihilation Marauder outperform me in a WZ. The only time is if he has his own healer with him. I also tear them down before their DoTs can even do much to me. If you DoT me for 3-5k over 10 seconds, i'll do the same amount in 2 seconds. My Gore+Scream is guaranteed 3500+ crit followed by a Ravage that you cant run from which crits for 1800+/2200+/3k+ per hit(thats first hit/second hit/third hit), followd by a force choke, then its Deadly Throw for the win. Annihilation spec is the spec people go for because its safe. It makes them feel good to know they are getting healed a little. I would rather have them dead before any heals are needed, and thats usually what happens.

 

I've played both carnage and annihilation and annihilation wins hands downs. Also the dots hit for much more than 3-5k over 10 seconds . And no good annihilation marauder is going to let you ravage them period man. Oh hey you're casting something... KICK. so base your experience off playing against bads.

[cosmov]

oh so the option is run to them sitting on the top tier in huttball or charge to them? Three words! Line Of Sight. Same goes with sniper.

 

so just let sniper or bh to nuke your team?

 

I've played both carnage and annihilation and annihilation wins hands downs. Also the dots hit for much more than 3-5k over 10 seconds . And no good annihilation marauder is going to let you ravage them period man. Oh hey you're casting something... KICK. so base your experience off playing against bads

 

or stealth on gore,or blind,or choke,its easy to screw carnage.

 

If you DoT me for 3-5k over 10 seconds

 

its 6 seconds,also annihilate have a high chance to get rupture off cd,add few vs and i do same damage as you do.

Edited February 24, 2012 by cosmov