Same gender relationships clarifications?

[Uluain]

At least most of the questions asked this time weren't just little fluff things. There was a little bit of useful information there. Just not the information I specifically was hoping for.

 

It would be nice to get SOME sort of update on the issue. 6+ months without a peep is kind of pushing things, Bioware.

Not to nitpick, but technically we are still at 5+ months. The 6 month mark will be March 13.

[Suaine]

I'd say go ahead and unsub now, fill out your survey when it arrives. If you change your mind later, you can always reactivate, and in the meantime can still continue playing/posting. A well timed flood of these exit surveys is the only thing BW is going to take notice of.

 

I agree. If you are unhappy and frustrated now, there is no reason not to take that step. Stay around knowing that you have nothing more to lose but everything to gain. It'll serve the purpose of a message sent and indeed when you, like me, find yourself changing your mind at the last minute, re-subbing is the easiest thing in the world.

[Nozybidaj]

I agree. If you are unhappy and frustrated now, there is no reason not to take that step. Stay around knowing that you have nothing more to lose but everything to gain. It'll serve the purpose of a message sent and indeed when you, like me, find yourself changing your mind at the last minute, re-subbing is the easiest thing in the world.

 

That's what I did last month. I won't be this month.

[Ravenstormer]

Posted... I'm getting immensely frustrated with some people in the discussion thread - it makes me wonder if some of them are discriminatory or the like. You know the word I'd choose to use, but as I've suggested before, it would hurt the cause.

 

Anyway, T-Minus 7 days until next Q&A. In the meantime, I suppose we can still hash out ideas/suggestions for implementation.

[Uluain]

Posted... I'm getting immensely frustrated with some people in the discussion thread - it makes me wonder if some of them are discriminatory or the like. You know the word I'd choose to use, but as I've suggested before, it would hurt the cause.

I say my part in the discussion thread and then move on. Let them display their hostility. The more scope they are given, the more likely they are to cross a line and cause their forum account to be infracted or banned. We gain more sympathy by remaining stoic in the face of unpleasantness which others find distasteful. Not just a silver lining here, but an essential element of strategy.

 

A new twist I have already observed in the Q&A post this week is someone new asking about same-gender content because they are tired of the question and want it answered so we can move on.

 

Our visibility will incite unpleasantness, yes. But it can also bring us unexpected support.

[Ravenstormer]

I say my part in the discussion thread and then move on. Let them display their hostility. The more scope they are given, the more likely they are to cross a line and cause their forum account to be infracted or banned. We gain more sympathy by remaining stoic in the face of unpleasantness which others find distasteful. Not just a silver lining here, but an essential element of strategy.

 

A new twist I have already observed in the Q&A post this week is someone new asking about same-gender content because they are tired of the question and want it answered so we can move on.

 

Our visibility will incite unpleasantness, yes. But it can also bring us unexpected support.

 

Indeed. While it is easier said than done, the point is that holding fast can and will be done, as it has in the past regarding this issue. Maybe it's just me, but at times I wish that forum infractions/bans were linked to in-game infractions/bans, like in some other games I've played. Then maybe people would think twice about coming on the forums and raving like a lunatic if it blocks their ability to play the game for a day or two. Or maybe not. Who knows?

[Kioma]

I find it both interesting and heartening that there seem to be people posting questions about same sex content in the Q&A thread who never seem to post here - lurkers, silent supporters and the like.

 

I really love that. This is proof that it's not only the vocal posters who have a vested interest in this, it's a lot more people. Sometimes it feels like we're walking around the same old circle but it's just not true. The threads are gathering more visibility, more momentum, more support every time they're bumped to the top of the pages of Story and Lore, and Suggestion Box.

 

It feels slow and a little hopeless at times but we are making a difference, step by step and bit by bit.

[Ruliya]

I find it both interesting and heartening that there seem to be people posting questions about same sex content in the Q&A thread who never seem to post here - lurkers, silent supporters and the like.

 

I really love that. This is proof that it's not only the vocal posters who have a vested interest in this, it's a lot more people. Sometimes it feels like we're walking around the same old circle but it's just not true. The threads are gathering more visibility, more momentum, more support every time they're bumped to the top of the pages of Story and Lore, and Suggestion Box.

 

It feels slow and a little hopeless at times but we are making a difference, step by step and bit by bit.

 

I haven't posted that much on these forums yet (used to be quite a poster back when I played WoW - on the WoW forums ofc ) Finally got the wind beneath my wings to post on these forums, and hope to keep going.

 

SGRA are something that speaks deeply to me, and I feel a little guilty for not posting before. But it's something I would love to see implemented (being a bisexual female) so that I (and everyone else) can enjoy this game as they see fit.

[Lurkz]

Posted my question in the Q&A thread as well. Here's hoping.

 

Also, that Blizz pic? The most freaking adorable thing ever. I just want to cuddle him.

[mrcaptainpants]

Well, that's it for me.

 

If a nearly 10% showing can't even get us a tiny bit of acknowledgment, I'm out.

 

I posted in the Q&A thread, of course. But immediately after that, I went to my account page and unsubscribed. I have 25 days left on my account.

 

I know that some people want very substantial information on the issue, but my expectations were much more modest. I simply wanted someone to verbally acknowledge the request. But apparently they aren't even willing to do that.

 

Fine. I know this sounds bitter, but... I can't help it. I fully support everyone's right to perceive this situation in whatever manner they see fit, be that positive or negative. This, however, is what I feel:

 

Bioware, if you don't think I'm worthy of even being spoken to in a public forum, then I don't think you're worthy of my $14.99 per month. So I will unsubscribe, and your very inappropriately-named "Community Team" can go right back to pretending I don't exist in your community.

[Nozybidaj]

 

Bioware, if you don't think I'm worthy of even being spoken to in a public forum, then I don't think you're worthy of my $14.99 per month. So I will unsubscribe, and your very inappropriately-named "Community Team" can go right back to pretending I don't exist in your community.

 

I get the very distinct impression that is what they want, for everyone to just kinda go away so the issue gets dropped without them having to do anything at all. I'm willing to oblige them at this point.

[Kioma]

I get the very distinct impression that is what they want, for everyone to just kinda go away so the issue gets dropped without them having to do anything at all. I'm willing to oblige them at this point.

 

I think that's not the case but, unfortunately, Bioware Austin isn't helping me make any case in their favour.

[MusedMoose]

I find it both interesting and heartening that there seem to be people posting questions about same sex content in the Q&A thread who never seem to post here - lurkers, silent supporters and the like.

 

I really love that. This is proof that it's not only the vocal posters who have a vested interest in this, it's a lot more people. Sometimes it feels like we're walking around the same old circle but it's just not true. The threads are gathering more visibility, more momentum, more support every time they're bumped to the top of the pages of Story and Lore, and Suggestion Box.

 

It feels slow and a little hopeless at times but we are making a difference, step by step and bit by bit.

And as much as I wish there was another way, that's really the only way to do it - get more people pushing for info, get others to show their support. Every time I see someone new posting their support in here, it makes me feel better about what we're doing, because it shows this isn't just something a few people want - it's something a lot of people want. And the only way to get what we want is to keep at it.

 

In other words, to quote something I saw somewhere on the internet, "Remember that guy who gave up? Neither does anyone else."

 

I haven't posted that much on these forums yet (used to be quite a poster back when I played WoW - on the WoW forums ofc ) Finally got the wind beneath my wings to post on these forums, and hope to keep going.

 

SGRA are something that speaks deeply to me, and I feel a little guilty for not posting before. But it's something I would love to see implemented (being a bisexual female) so that I (and everyone else) can enjoy this game as they see fit.

Welcome! Always good to see a new face in here. No need to feel guilty about not posting before, just glad you're here now. And yeah, a lot of this is about being able to play our characters as we see fit. Our characters weren't restricted to either straight or asexual in other BioWare games, no reason they should be in SW:TOR.

[Chaac]

I tried my hardest not to post in the Q&A Blog response thread but I just couldn't stop myself. I think I kept it nice and civil in my replies though, well I hope I did.

 

 

Sad to see that we didn't get a response again Finding it harder and harder to think we're gonna see any sign of SGRA'S before the first expansion. Anyways reposted my same question from last week in the new Q&A thread but I shan't get my hopes up for a reply.

[Gemin]

Sorry I haven't posted in a bit folks. Just... haven't felt any real urge to play TOR for the last two weeks or so. And here I have a 6 month subscription. I thought I was waiting for 1.2 but even with the crafting changes, I don't know how I'll make it to 6 months with the game as it is now.

 

My femTrooper has an amazing relationship with Elara. Elara has given her a bottle of brandy and then asked if she could share it with her; about kids and could she teach them proper Republic protocol; repeatedly told her how much of a friend she is and how much she means to her. There is so much subtext there that I think it would have been brilliant to have those walls break down even in Act 3 with Elara maybe wondering if there wasn't something more and how it might work.

 

But no.

 

*sigh* I'm just getting tired of it all.

 

Even if it is something as simple as the fact that I enjoy playing a female character because I can disconnect myself enough from her to really enjoy a unique experience and I'd still prefer to romance a female.

 

I'm in the "there are no gay or lesbian relationships in Star Wars, just relationships" camp. Why they had to put borders where there needed none, I'll never know. (Well, corporate cowardice is probably the most likely tbh)

 

Sorry for the rant. I'll post in this week's Q&A thread as well, I missed the last one and had a post removed from the one before it because I quoted a question regarding SGR's adding my support which apparently violated rule #6.

 

So I'll just write the damn thing out this time word for word.

[Ruliya]

Welcome! Always good to see a new face in here. No need to feel guilty about not posting before, just glad you're here now. And yeah, a lot of this is about being able to play our characters as we see fit. Our characters weren't restricted to either straight or asexual in other BioWare games, no reason they should be in SW:TOR.

 

Well thank you ^^

 

While I did enjoy Mass Effect and Dragon Age (never played DA2, though ME2 was brilliant) I got to feeling that I could really roleplay my character better.

 

But I do realise that an MMO can possibly reach a wider audience. And though I do not appreciate their reluctance in giving us an answer I can kind of see why why do.

 

Less media over the "Unwanted" parts is better to them. - "Unwanted" in this statement meaning their non-introduction of same gender romance arcs from launch - this aspect, as we all know will garner certain attention.

 

I think they are trying to figure out a good way to introduce it. Let us not forget the fact that this is Bioware Austin, which as I understand haven't dealt with this sort of pressure before?

 

I may be wrong here, so sorry if I am.

[ElvarMagnus]

I just wanted to say that I've put in again this week on the Q&A. I'm not a fan of being ignored, but I am a persistent person.

 

As far as Romances go. A lot of us have had more than enough time to create our characters and play them up to where we are worried about missing romances and quests with them. I think a simple vendor on the side that allows you to reset a companions side conversations and set them up as time based would be a good idea.

 

Here is an example of how I see this working:

 

 

Player goes to the vendor after having done Mako's and Torian's side conversations and quests. The player can then pay Gold and XP to reset the characters conversations. The XP is added to the cost so that people don't keep trying to mine the romance side quests....just a thought. They would probably have to work in a lose a level function that may need to be iterated over, but I don't see that as being too hard to do. No more than an hour unless they have some really quirky stuff in the level up code.

 

After the character's conversation is reset you may then talk to them in your ship/cantina as usual, however, now their conversations are real world time spaced apart, so you don't get bombarded with them and smothered with love. This would mean that it may take a few weeks of constantly logging in each day to get to the end, but Bioware wants that anyways....

 

 

 

What do you think?

Edited February 25, 2012 by ElvarMagnus

[Uluain]

Admittedly, I am reading between the lines of what we have been told, up front and also through back channels like email replies from Customer Service, but mentions have been made to thisin regards to content patches rather than a retail expansion pack. Likewise, the enigmatic Mr. Reid, while mum as to new information has affirmed that all existing information still stands - meaning current companions are still at least under consideration for same gender content.

 

The way in which CS regretfully told me that they really cannot give me any information but, replying after our highly visible presence in last week's Q&A, did specifically encourage me to keep posting there as long as necessary, telling me that the Devs may respond but absolutely do see that thread and do know this is (in CS's words) a hot topic.

 

Community Support has also been as ...supportive of this topic as their necessary stance of impartiality allows. They can't pick sides, but they have worked very hard to keep our threads on-topic and relatively troll-free. We aren't limited to a few dedicated threads to isolate us. We are in dedicated threads so that they can more easily stamp out flames & to assure that these threads are found by those wishing to discuss this topic.

 

Hopeless optimism? No, call it "guarded optimism". I have been involved in this kind of issue for a long time now and reading between the lines - as one often must do - I see encouragement.

 

I am genuinely mystified as to the Dev Team's reasons for not responding yet, but plainly they must have them. Maybe once 1.2 is out? Who knows? But it will come, it is in the works, they know we are anxious and they aren't telling us to shut up - neither directly in so many words, nor indirectly with having answered our Q&A question with something like "We cannot offer any further information and will have nothing to say until we are ready to add this content." They could have answered, yes. Or they could have totally closed the subject. They didn't.

[Gemin]

Just posted and saw that my question appears right after Raiellyn's. I wonder if we were able to post a string of them they might get the hint?

[OtchiNiTenshi]

 

 

Player goes to the vendor after having done Mako's and Torian's side conversations and quests. The player can then pay Gold and XP to reset the characters conversations. The XP is added to the cost so that people don't keep trying to mine the romance side quests....just a thought. They would probably have to work in a lose a level function that may need to be iterated over, but I don't see that as being too hard to do. No more than an hour unless they have some really quirky stuff in the level up code.

 

After the character's conversation is reset you may then talk to them in your ship/cantina as usual, however, now their conversations are real world time spaced apart, so you don't get bombarded with them and smothered with love. This would mean that it may take a few weeks of constantly logging in each day to get to the end, but Bioware wants that anyways....

 

 

 

What do you think?

 

I think this is a really good idea for the problem of 'existing' players who may have gone too far in a storyline. However, I can see a few issues with the idea of paying XP for the conversation reset. Primarily, it might still cause some upset or frustrated players if they accidentally missed an option before implementation. Personally, I liked the idea of my Shadow training Nadia and romancing her, unfortunately, I got a little too far in her dialogue options without necessarily realizing where the 'romance' starts. While I wouldn't mind paying an obscene amount of credits for a convo reset, the idea of suddenly being unable to use any of my gear because it is all requiring level 50 doesn't sit well with me.

 

Perhaps a better option might be to use the credits as well as a full AP reset for the companion in question. That way, there's still effort expended, and more than just the credit cost. I do think there needs to be something other than credits to encourage people to truly think before they go forward.

 

Honestly, While I do enjoy some of the potential romances, and think they might be fun to explore with the SGRA spin, I find myself somewhat hoping that at the time of actual incorporation, they use a 'New companion only' model for working in. It might solve many of these potential issues with the minimal chance of some coding quirk breaking everything around a specific companion that already exists.

[MusedMoose]

My femTrooper has an amazing relationship with Elara. Elara has given her a bottle of brandy and then asked if she could share it with her; about kids and could she teach them proper Republic protocol; repeatedly told her how much of a friend she is and how much she means to her. There is so much subtext there that I think it would have been brilliant to have those walls break down even in Act 3 with Elara maybe wondering if there wasn't something more and how it might work.

 

But no.

 

*sigh* I'm just getting tired of it all.

 

Good to know my trooper has so much to look forward to with Elara. What you're talking about here is part of why I think we'll get the currently romanceable companions as SGR options; for some things, BioWare wouldn't have to change a whole lot. Lines where the companions refer to our characters would obviously need to be recorded, as well as our characters' lines, but still.

 

This also touches on how many people have said that the relationships with companions of the same gender seem to have a ton of subtext. I'm guessing this comes from those conversations being recorded with romance in mind - some would play regardless of the PC's gender, but they were still done for a character who's a romance option. Makes it really easy for the same-gender companion to sound like they're interested.

 

And I feel your pain about getting tired of it all. Waiting sucks, but all we can do is keep trying.

 

Even if it is something as simple as the fact that I enjoy playing a female character because I can disconnect myself enough from her to really enjoy a unique experience and I'd still prefer to romance a female.

If I'm understanding you right, I'm pretty much in the same boat. I'm a guy every day of my life, so playing a female character in a game offers that extra layer of escapism. I think much of the point of role-playing is to be someone other than yourself. The lack of SGRs has kept me from playing my female characters, as I don't have any interest in doing the romance storylines with male characters. Not being able to play the characters we want seems like an unforeseen consequence of the lack of SGRs, and it really sucks.

 

Less media over the "Unwanted" parts is better to them. - "Unwanted" in this statement meaning their non-introduction of same gender romance arcs from launch - this aspect, as we all know will garner certain attention.

 

I think they are trying to figure out a good way to introduce it. Let us not forget the fact that this is Bioware Austin, which as I understand haven't dealt with this sort of pressure before?

I *think* this is BW Austin's first major title, so yeah, they very well could be new to all of this. And there's all kinds of theories about why SGRs weren't included from the start; I don't know if any of them are true, so I won't repeat them. But you're right about the kind of attention they will get, some of which they've already been getting.

 

As for introducing it, I remember the customer service letters that were posted earlier in this thread. Those letters (if I remember right, someone please correct me if I'm wrong, I'm typing this when I should be getting to bed so I could be wrong) said that BW would talk about this feature when it's closer to release. That makes sense to me - Blizzard caught all kinds of flak for talking about WoW features long before they were released, so hopefully BW has learned from that mistake.

 

But no matter how far away it is, I really don't think a simple note from the devs that it's being worked on is too much to ask.

 

I just wanted to say that I've put in again this week on the Q&A. I'm not a fan of being ignored, but I am a persistent person.

Good to hear. Persistence has this nifty trait of paying off.

 

As far as Romances go. A lot of us have had more than enough time to create our characters and play them up to where we are worried about missing romances and quests with them. I think a simple vendor on the side that allows you to reset a companions side conversations and set them up as time based would be a good idea.

[snip]

After the character's conversation is reset you may then talk to them in your ship/cantina as usual, however, now their conversations are real world time spaced apart, so you don't get bombarded with them and smothered with love. This would mean that it may take a few weeks of constantly logging in each day to get to the end, but Bioware wants that anyways....

 

What do you think?

That's an interesting idea. Just so long as the costs and such are exactly the same for SGR and OGR. My only concern is that there are companion quests that are done along the way with the storyline quests, and having them out of place wouldn't make much sense. With both my Trooper and JK, I've had quests revolving around Dorne and Kira that, if they weren't done as part of the class's story, would cause some serious continuity errors.

 

Of course, if you're just talking about conversations, then my point is entirely moot. I haven't gotten into any of the companion romances (gorram it Vette, 6000 affection and you still hardly smile at my SW? ), so I can't say for sure.

[Cythereal]

Alas, looks like I'll have to make a second Trooper, should Elara be romanceable by women sometime in the future. I've found the story too much fun to play to stay away, and Aric is an interesting enough romance. Don't think I'll mind playing through with the other AC should I be able to romance Elara in the future.

[Samy_Merchi]

Perhaps a better option might be to use the credits as well as a full AP reset for the companion in question.

If by AP you mean affection points, then fully resetting them to zero at level, say, 50 would be just cruel when you have no more world quests to pick up dialogue affection points. You'd be forced to train Diplomacy to obtain higher level companion gifts to get them back to 10k.

Edited February 25, 2012 by Samy_Merchi

[Uluain]

Just posted and saw that my question appears right after Raiellyn's. I wonder if we were able to post a string of them they might get the hint?

Oh - it's not uncommpn for them to bunch up like that. And trust me - they've gotten the hint.

 

It is still far to early in the thread to expect to keep this sort of momentum all the way through, but as of those two posts you mention, where things stand at my last count, we have 30 posts up so far, out of 172 total. 30 / 172 = 17.4% !

[Blue-Reckloose]

I haven't logged in for a week or two, just can't seem to bother doing it. I'm mostly waiting for gay romances to be added (I'm not going to call them SGR's, that's some lame terminology so that people don't have to say gay... I personally would've gone with Takei, works much better).

 

But, I hold no real hope at all. I figure that if they actually add gay romances, it will be through an expansion, not a free update, and they'll be only a few companions made player-sexual, while most will remain straight, and the new ones will be totally disconnected from the game and the plot of the game, so they'll end up feeling "odd" (kinda like Shale in Dragon Age, you can just TELL shale was created after the fact).

 

I'm also getting kinda freaked out with the heterocentrism and weirdness. You know, where you accidentally stumble into straight sex because the dialogue is.... you know what, it's disturbingly creepy. It reminds me of my attempt to do a renegade run through of Mass Effect, where you run into that first blue lady, and if your REALLY MEAN and rude as all get out, she just randomly hops into the sack with you. That freaked me out enough that I deleted the save and had to not play mass effect for about... 6 months. Got similar vibes from this game...

 

So I cancelled my subscription. Cause I just stopped caring. Do I think my cancellation is going to make Bioware Austin do something correctly? No. Do I care? Not anymore. To be perfectly honest, this game has kinda made me start disliking the star wars genre all together.