This game is TWO MONTHS old.

[Dezzi]

After reading your post, I've came to the conclusion that you are a .... "bit behind the curve" in certain areas. Yea, that was nice enough.

 

Its pretty simple and I'll lay it out for you im simple words.

 

No game launches with the amount of content they will have 5+ years down the road. None. Zero. Zilch. Nada.

 

WoW launched with just as many raids as this game has. It launched with just about the same number of 5 man dungeons this game has. Rift launched with less than TOR and WoW did.

 

WoW gives you more content and "stuff to do' because its close to a decade old than being out of release. You cannot compare a game just released to that of one thats been in the market for ages.

 

Compare the following :

 

Vanilla WoW

Rift at launch

TOR at launch

AoC at launch

SWG at launch (el oh el)

Any other AAA at launch

 

Guess what? Its ahead or equal in the content department over every other MMO that has came out in the last 10 years at launch. And guess what? While you are qqing, you are still here, paying for the game or you wouldn't be posting.

 

So defensive...

 

[jndca]

Yeah, eight hundred people, six years, and two hundred million is a "smidge" more than any other mmorpg I can recall coming anywhere close to having. On all counts.

 

I wouldn't say they failed miserably though. Subscription numbers have not plummeted anything like they have in many other mmorpg's by this point. At worst they just made some poor design decisions, in my opinion.

 

Debating your link there... i still say WOW has the advantage over development costs. They have 7 YEARS and BILLIONS of dollars to work with. Of COURSE they're going to be getting things right.. by NOW. But again, designing an entire MMO is not easy, and again, they did get some things wrong, very very wrong. But im still playing, at least 4-5 times a week for a few hours at a time. They did something right, because im picky as hell when it comes to MMOs and so are the friends i play with on TOR.

[jndca]

Actually yes , yes you do. I could give a rats arse about the graphics quality of the game, and lemme tell YOU sugar, this games graphics aint all that. Lag? hell read more , this game has lag as well, but again, LAG aint what we are talking about.

 

EQ1 , with all its flaws, beat the crap out of this game, flat out. Even with a book in your face, corpse runs and combines that didnt combine.

 

So yeah , tell me how the LOOK of a game makes up for crappy design? Flawed implementation ?

 

Im not saying the design is perfect or even that good. But the story, to me, is damn awesome. The lag is there, not going to deny that. The UI issue SUCKS. Ilum needs help. But trying to compare a game from '01 to now? iffy. Just considering the amount of hardware that people have now compared to then... i don't envy developers i really dont.

[AshenK]

After reading your post, I've came to the conclusion that you are a .... "bit behind the curve" in certain areas. Yea, that was nice enough.

 

Its pretty simple and I'll lay it out for you im simple words.

 

No game launches with the amount of content they will have 5+ years down the road. None. Zero. Zilch. Nada.

 

WoW launched with just as many raids as this game has. It launched with just about the same number of 5 man dungeons this game has. Rift launched with less than TOR and WoW did.

 

WoW gives you more content and "stuff to do' because its close to a decade old than being out of release. You cannot compare a game just released to that of one thats been in the market for ages.

 

Compare the following :

 

Vanilla WoW

Rift at launch

TOR at launch

AoC at launch

SWG at launch (el oh el)

Any other AAA at launch

 

Guess what? Its ahead or equal in the content department over every other MMO that has came out in the last 10 years at launch. And guess what? While you are qqing, you are still here, paying for the game or you wouldn't be posting.

Here's the thing, WoW was quick to add content in. The game was for the most part 'done' and Blizzard could add more stuff in at a faster rate due to not having to add in new systems that should have been in at launch.

 

Rift same thing or so I've been told. AoC and SWG? Both games had been missing a good chunk of things that should have been in at launch. AoC is still missing some of the systems that Funcom said they would add in. SWG depending on who you talk to the game was 'done' with Jump to Lightspeed. All SWG had to do at that point was fix some systems and get some balance in.

 

Now look at TOR it's missing tons of things that players want in the game. And now BioWare has to balance putting those systems in along with putting content in and hey guess what? No MMO has been able to do that. There is no way BioWare is going to be able to put in custom UI's on top of putting in new Raids, Flashpoints, grouping systems, and the like.

 

The core game isn't even in TOR, core systems are not in TOR. This game was so not ready for launch and really after looking it over and hearing people talk I'm guessing it would have been a year to a year and a half before the game was remotely looking like anything that could be launched. And do you really think players are going to wait around that long? I don't.

[Yozbick]

If any of you have been around launches of other MMOs (which I doubt many people here have), you come to realize that they aren't going to be perfect at launch.

 

I've been playing MMOs since the launch of EQ. Put serious time into EQ, DAOC and WOW.

 

The difference between all those games and SWTOR: Two months in I have two Level 50 characters and I have maxed 8 crafting skills on my mains and a couple alts.

 

It took a LOT longer in other games. That's why a lack of "endgame" content didn't matter as much. It took 8 months to actually reach the endgame with one character... not 8 weeks to reach it with two.

[jndca]

Here's the thing, WoW was quick to add content in. The game was for the most part 'done' and Blizzard could add more stuff in at a faster rate due to not having to add in new systems that should have been in at launch.

 

Rift same thing or so I've been told. AoC and SWG? Both games had been missing a good chunk of things that should have been in at launch. AoC is still missing some of the systems that Funcom said they would add in. SWG depending on who you talk to the game was 'done' with Jump to Lightspeed. All SWG had to do at that point was fix some systems and get some balance in.

 

Now look at TOR it's missing tons of things that players want in the game. And now BioWare has to balance putting those systems in along with putting content in and hey guess what? No MMO has been able to do that. There is no way BioWare is going to be able to put in custom UI's on top of putting in new Raids, Flashpoints, grouping systems, and the like.

 

The core game isn't even in TOR, core systems are not in TOR. This game was so not ready for launch and really after looking it over and hearing people talk I'm guessing it would have been a year to a year and a half before the game was remotely looking like anything that could be launched. And do you really think players are going to wait around that long? I don't.

Well.. they just put two new flashpoints in, so wrong on your very first point. Oh, and they have fixed a TON of bugs. I've gone back and re done quests that have been bugged and been able to finish them because of the fixes. SO yes, they are able to balance both the fixing and the adding part. Ill agree that they need to do it faster, but i wont agree that the game is "broken" at least when it comes to the main story lines/quests. Ilum is broken though. That is a given.

[madmikeyb]

lets compare WOW from 7 years ago to today make sense. Seriously i dont think you thought this out much. Peoples expectations go up not down so what was enough 7 years ago wouldnt be good today.

 

Thats like saying well Wow ran on computer from 7 years ago, why cant tor run on the same one. So instead of company's adding more stuff and making end game and pvp better we should just allow lazy content cause it was ok 7 years ago. Its ok though every MMO has bugs, huge bugs, so why change and make a game stable we can do that after the game is launched thats what everyone else does.

[Deewe]

Yeah, eight hundred people, six years, and two hundred million is a "smidge" more than any other mmorpg I can recall coming anywhere close to having. On all counts.

 

I wouldn't say they failed miserably though. Subscription numbers have not plummeted anything like they have in many other mmorpg's by this point. At worst they just made some poor design decisions, in my opinion.

With this budget they could have made like what: 6 LotRo, 3-4 Rift/AoC? And that's counting each time you pay for the development of the engine and the learning curve to use it. So we could have had a RIFT/AoC game with like 4 time the content @launch.

 

That's a pretty nice sum of money if you ask.

Edited February 24, 2012 by Deewe

[dreamsb]

you guys simply dont understand what is SWTOR lol, do you?

 

let me explain the current situation of the game with an easy way that everyone will understand the game they're playing right now ready?

 

1- Project Budget: Arround 250$ Millions (EA Louse mentionned it was more than 300). From my point of view as an experienced gamer and mmo lover (12+ yrs) clearly 75% went into Voice Acting. As a result of a lacking game engine, productions and QA testing. To release a 2011 (almost 2012) game like that, clearly something went stupidly wrong.

 

2- Game Engine: Have you heard of Hero Engine? i would suggest that you make your own research about ot (Google my friends!) then perhaps you'll understand why this game is so bugged, unstable and almost unplayable with 80-90+FPS even with a 2900$ PC (mine lol).

 

3- BioWare / EA: perhaps the most failed teamwork in the mmo industries. They dont know what they're doing (clearly). Their first mmo, but they're lacking competent employees (wich many of them already left the team to work on other projects ...). A REALLY bad Customer Service located all around the world, with GMs (droids) that dont even play the game, have no clue about our problems / issue and sending automatic answers to everyone. The main reason right now why ppl are leaving is from the CS lol.

 

I've seen the same story happening with Age of Conan and Warhammer. SWTOR will soon beat both of them together with their 250$+ millions fail.

 

It is sad yes, I love Star Wars, but they killed it

 

You'll understand when Guild Wars 2 / TERA and ArcheAge will go live, trust me

 

 

p.s: my account is already canceled, this game doesnt worth paying in order to play it. Online poker games are better lol.

[gurugeorge]

lets compare WOW from 7 years ago to today make sense. Seriously i dont think you thought this out much. Peoples expectations go up not down so what was enough 7 years ago wouldnt be good today.

 

Thats like saying well Wow ran on computer from 7 years ago, why cant tor run on the same one. So instead of company's adding more stuff and making end game and pvp better we should just allow lazy content cause it was ok 7 years ago. Its ok though every MMO has bugs, huge bugs, so why change and make a game stable we can do that after the game is launched thats what everyone else does.

 

No, it's not like saying that at all. There's no magic wand you can wave to make MMO-making any easier or faster. Things do get faster and efficient in some ways, but then some new tech or new "thing to do" comes along, and it has to be incorporated, so it takes just as long in the end.

 

The relevant comparison is between the 4-5 year development periods. SWTOR has a teeny bit more at launch than WoW did at launch, if you just look at the "standard MMO" bits and pieces - but it has absolutely tons more content if you include the VO-d storylines.

 

So that's about right. BW has excelled in putting a lot of content in their area of speciality into the game at launch.

 

You will never, ever get 12 years' worth of content (like WoW) from 5 years of development (SWTOR). It will never happen; and if that's someone's criterion before they're going to be satisfied with a new MMO coming out, they will never, ever be satisfied with any new MMO that comes out.

 

To produce 12 years' worth of content in 5 years would need so much upfront cash to pay all the extra people you'd have to hire, that no investor would take the risk.

Edited February 23, 2012 by gurugeorge

[StrikeOfLight]

It isn't anything to do with how old the game is. It is to do with how we feel SWTOR is fundamentally flawed, and many of us doubt it can be fixed. Edited February 23, 2012 by StrikeOfLight

[Deewe]

To produce 12 years' worth of content in 5 years would need so much upfront cash to pay all the extra people you'd have to hire, that no investor would take the risk.

Six years, SWTOR development started officially in December 2005

[Ansultares]

It isn't anything to do with how old the game is. It is to do with how we feel SWTOR is fundamentally flawed, and many of us doubt it can be fixed.

I'm disappointed by the foundation of the game.

 

I can't see myself ever being excited to play through the content again. I'm trying heavy PvP/FP, but even that's grown very stale by level 30.

[Tarka]

I disagree with your assumptions OP.

[SirRobin]

Six years, SWTOR development started officially in December 2005

 

Not to pile on but they made a big deal about TOR being "fully voiced" and didn't even manage that. Yes given the time, treasure, and talent involved, what we got seems a bit... lacking. However, its not like we are really suffering here or anything. I got over a month out of TOR before it started dragging and that is pretty typical for the other sixty dollar games I've bought. Yeah, I will probably cancel soon but I'll probably come back too... Whenever the xpac hits the shelves.

[SirRobin]

I disagree with your assumptions OP.

 

Tarka!

 

Long time no read.

[Tarka]

I'm disappointed by the foundation of the game.

 

I can't see myself ever being excited to play through the content again. I'm trying heavy PvP/FP, but even that's grown very stale by level 30.

 

To me, this game is too shallow. Unfortunately, there seems to be very little sign that it is going to get much in the way of depth in the coming months.

 

The story is nice. But like all stories, its strength is also its weakness. The focus on story means that very little meat is given to how the player feels in being part of something grander (i.e. being a <insert class here> in the Star Wars universe MMO). Instead, we're just given our <insert iconic gadgets here>, and our class specific ship and told that we're a <insert class name here>.

 

In short, there is very little depth beyond the scope of the leveling story. You run flashpoints, operations and / or warzones until your blue in the face.

 

Now, whilst what the game DOES have may be a good start, but the clock is always ticking. As with all MMO's, in the next few months inevitably the lustre and the "new MMO smell" will begin to wear off. More and more players get to end game and begin to analyse what content there is that appeals to them....

 

Will just throwing more flashpoints, operations and warzones in be enough?

Or will history repeat itself and prove once again that MMO players are getting more sophisticated with their desires?

 

Tick, tock Bioware.

Edited February 24, 2012 by Tarka

[SirRobin]

Debating your link there...

 

http://herocomplex.latimes.com/2012/01/20/star-wars-the-old-republic-the-story-behind-a-galactic-gamble/#/0

 

Do you have a source which says something else?

 

Link?

 

Update: Nevermind... misunderstood you there.

Edited February 24, 2012 by SirRobin

[Tarka]

Tarka!

 

Long time no read.

 

Aye, hehe.

[Deewe]

To me, this game is too shallow. Unfortunately, there seems to be very little sign that it is going to get much in the way of depth in the coming months.

 

**snip**

 

Tick, tock Bioware.

I don't know, I want to love the game, I have some fun when I play it but it's because I do my best not to cap my characters.

 

That being said I'm looking towards the guild summit. Pretty much we'll have a good idea whether we can throw the towel or keep some hope by then.

 

On thing is certain it will take more than a few V.O. quests or new instances to fix the game and even think of having a chance against the newcomers (GW2 among them).

Edited February 24, 2012 by Deewe

[Lethality]

To produce 12 years' worth of content in 5 years would need so much upfront cash to pay all the extra people you'd have to hire, that no investor would take the risk.

 

It's not about the content....

 

It's not even about the bugs.

 

It's about lack of features and design decisions.

[LucisAbyssus]

If you don't want standard MMO features that have been part of the genre since inception, then go play Hello Kitty Adventure Island.

 

Right now I prefer playing SW:TOR, and am content with it. Weird how you tried to make an ultimatum.

Edited February 24, 2012 by LucisAbyssus

[LucisAbyssus]

And how much has WOW made? OH at LEAST a billion dollars, considering subscription numbers from the last few years. So yea, you can't compare an MMO that has been out for 7 years and another that has been out for 2 months.

 

Doesn't matter, the number that Bioware spent making this game is close to 80 million, only 17 million more than WoW at initial launch cost to make, and that's because of voice acting/motion capture.

[Reaperchris]

The first time i played WoW back in 04 I hated it so I just kept playing Runescape lol

[LucisAbyssus]

What gets me is that you all compare this game to others forgetting a few facts along the way :

 

1) They had TONS of successful or mostly successful MMOs to look at , and find what people liked about them.

 

2) They had the cash to implement it.

 

3) They had a team that supposedly had experience.

 

4) They failed miserably on 1-3.

 

This isnt 2001 here folks. For the amount of Time and Cash they had I expect competence in design. They didnt deliver.

 

Now you can argue everything all you want, but it just makes you look like a bunch of morons. The game is heavily flawed, plays like 2002 console , and has the lasting appeal of decaying food. And yes. Its 2 months old.

 

For somebody who doesn't know what to capitalize in your sentences you're calling others morons?