RudeDog Posted February 23, 2012 Share Posted February 23, 2012 Do What? Should this person even be talking? I don't see how his "facts" are working out. I thought I was buying a computer game, not a car.... or did I miss something? Please, someone help explain this to me, I'm so confused right now, I may need to go lay down. If you cannot understand the analogy I would suggest some remedial reading comprehension courses. Good luck in all your future endeavors... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Knewt Posted February 23, 2012 Share Posted February 23, 2012 SW:TOR took around 80 million. WoW took around 63 million to develop initially. SW:TOR launched with more content and broke the world record for voice acting in entertainment history with over 500,000 lines of dialogue. If you don't really know how large that is, a game like Dragon Age has an average of 50-60 thousand lines of dialogue. Where are you getting the $80 million figure from? Almost all estimates peg SWTOR development costs at $200-$300 million. The voice acting is nice and definitely a step forward in story presentation for a MMO. However, it also has a major downside. Due to the story being king in this MMO, the game does not play like a MMO. It plays more like a single player game with co-op. Nobody will call ME3 a MMO, but it will feel very similar to SWTOR in how the story drives the game and you can play with other people via co-op. You don't like the game? Get off the forums, stop paying for it, cancel your subscription. Nothing you say in this post has been constructive, it's just pointing out "obvious travesties" you tend to dislike about the game in its current state. Just because you've "played a lot of MMO's" doesn't mean you're a professional in the business. Most of us have played lots of MMO's too, you're not a special snowflake that knows everything. "It's now as if every patch, you already know for sure something will be wrong with the game." Insisting that 1.1.3/1.1.4 is enough data to conclude such an outlandish blanket statement. MFW -> This is the type of statement that needs to end around here. It doesn't do anything good and only inflames the passions more. It's trolling and really needs to stop. Most of the us who complain about missing features or end game content actually like to play TOR. We want to make the game better. We want TOR to last a long time and continue the story. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zhit Posted February 23, 2012 Share Posted February 23, 2012 (edited) You don't like the game? Get off the forums, stop paying for it, cancel your subscription. It is great that some people still enjoy the game! For lots of folks--reading the forums is much, much more fun than TOR. There is a ray of sunshine though--ME3 is right around the corner... Plus, BW gave time credits to a massive number players that unsubscribed. Most had no idea they got the time--but those that did I think skipped the game and went straight to the forums. Hopefully when they give all the folks that unsubscribed some more game time for the next shareholder subscription count they will allow them to play, but block forum posting rights. Edited February 23, 2012 by Zhit Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FiveDeadlyVenoms Posted February 23, 2012 Share Posted February 23, 2012 It's their money, and they want to complain now! because $15 is a lot of money??????? This game is already 20 times better then galaxies was. if I remember correctly Sony almost started a revolution on their forums when they decided to change elements in their game. Its more expensive to go to the movies for 2 people then it is to Play TOR, and then you'll be lucky if the movie doesn't suck. Forget about a family of 4. how many MMO's are out where you can play in some stupid fantasy world? what people don't realize is that MMO's are one of the hardest things to make, NOTHING IS GUARANTEED. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LucisAbyssus Posted February 23, 2012 Share Posted February 23, 2012 Where are you getting the $80 million figure from? Almost all estimates peg SWTOR development costs at $200-$300 million. The voice acting is nice and definitely a step forward in story presentation for a MMO. However, it also has a major downside. Due to the story being king in this MMO, the game does not play like a MMO. It plays more like a single player game with co-op. Nobody will call ME3 a MMO, but it will feel very similar to SWTOR in how the story drives the game and you can play with other people via co-op. This is the type of statement that needs to end around here. It doesn't do anything good and only inflames the passions more. It's trolling and really needs to stop. Most of the us who complain about missing features or end game content actually like to play TOR. We want to make the game better. We want TOR to last a long time and continue the story. Actually, the question is, "where are you getting your 200-300 million figure from?" The origination of those figures came from EA Louse, which was not only a bunk source that wanted to douse EA/Bioware in fire for laying him off, but proven to be just that. The 80 million dollar figure is an accurate estimation from an analyst named Michael Pachter. His estimation just about hits the mark with the EA statement in one of their earlier earnings calls that said they would only need around 1.5 million subscribers to earn their investment back. The already given 1.7 million subscribers, plus 2 million copies of the game sold give them their investment and then some back. Most of the people complaining about this game in this thread don't like SW:TOR at all. It's like that in almost every thread which they present. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LucisAbyssus Posted February 23, 2012 Share Posted February 23, 2012 It is great that some people still enjoy the game! For lots of folks--reading the forums is much, much more fun than TOR. There is a ray of sunshine though--ME3 is right around the corner... Plus, BW gave time credits to a massive number players that unsubscribed. Most had no idea they got the time--but those that did I think skipped the game and went straight to the forums. Hopefully when they give all the folks that unsubscribed some more game time for the next shareholder subscription count they will allow them to play, but block forum posting rights. No, no they didn't. Unless this was just a hilarious joke. If that's the case, I approve. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Knewt Posted February 23, 2012 Share Posted February 23, 2012 (edited) I see you conveniently ignored my comment on how you are trolling people. Actually, the question is, "where are you getting your 200-300 million figure from?" The origination of those figures came from EA Louse, which was not only a bunk source that wanted to douse EA/Bioware in fire for laying him off, but proven to be just that. The 80 million dollar figure is an accurate estimation from an analyst named Michael Pachter. His estimation just about hits the mark with the EA statement in one of their earlier earnings calls that said they would only need around 1.5 million subscribers to earn their investment back. The already given 1.7 million subscribers, plus 2 million copies of the game sold give them their investment and then some back. Most of the people complaining about this game in this thread don't like SW:TOR at all. It's like that in almost every thread which they present. I see your single analyst and raise you an article in the LA Times from January 20th: http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/entertainmentnewsbuzz/2012/01/star-wars-old-republic-cost.html EA declined to comment on the amount it spent to create The Old Republic. That hasn't stopped Wall Street analysts from pegging the game's production costs at $150 million to $200 million or more, a figure that people knowledgeable with the game's budget don't dispute. And I wouldn't discount the EA Louse blog so quickly. Some of his blog statements ring eerily true now. He is angry about being fired. He probably exaggerated some things, but there is probably a huge amount of truth in his blog postings. Just because you don't like the opinion doesn't mean it isn't true. Edited February 23, 2012 by Knewt Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RudeDog Posted February 23, 2012 Share Posted February 23, 2012 Not entirely untrue. Conan sucked as soon as you got out of tortage. grinding was terrible in that game. Was released way too early and had many glitches and bugs which players exploited AOC had content (i.e. quests all the way to the level cap). If the poster had said he didn't like the quests or didn't have anything to do at cap he would have been right, but saying there was no content after 20 is just false. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LucisAbyssus Posted February 23, 2012 Share Posted February 23, 2012 (edited) I see you conveniently ignored my comment on how you are trolling people. I see your single analyst and raise you an article in the LA Times from January 20th: http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/entertainmentnewsbuzz/2012/01/star-wars-old-republic-cost.html And I wouldn't discount the EA Louse blog so quickly. Some of his blog statements ring eerily true now. He is angry about being fired. He probably exaggerated some things, but there is probably a huge amount of truth in his blog postings. Just because you don't like the opinion doesn't mean it isn't true. Did you seriously just offer a news paper over a professional Analyst AND EA Board? The people who invested the money in this game? Lol. Why are you trying to dispute it? EA already hit their needed mark to make a profit off of this game. I would discount it, as he himself did in his blog. That's because I'm not trolling people. If these people you speak of cared at all about the game, they would do something more constructive than post "this game is failing and they need to do something fast!". Edited February 23, 2012 by LucisAbyssus Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hecantonchire Posted February 23, 2012 Share Posted February 23, 2012 I can't wait for SWTOR to be 1 year old. The games only one year old give them some time, blah, blah, blah. I expected this game to be fairly on par with other games of the genre and period. I understand comparisons with other industries don't always hold water but they make sense to me. Such as if a new car were not working ppl would be upset. It is retarded imo to compare SWTOR to anything other than MMO's of this time period plus or minus 1 year. I fully understand that there are copyrights for coding such that new developers have to create the same code from scratch but they have employees who have done it before. If I designed an airplane out of wood and it crashed I don't think anyone would say, "Well the Hindenburg crashed give it some time." That being said, the only complaint I have with SWTOR is a lack of players on my server. Everything else is fine. I just can't stand the we have to wait mentality and comparing SWTOR to ATARI 2600 games to convince others how good it is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RudeDog Posted February 23, 2012 Share Posted February 23, 2012 That isn't trolling, that's the truth. Some immature people like you can't handle the truth when a point is being made, When someone says "Go play that game, good riddance, I sure as hell won't miss you." I would say they are the person being immature and trolling. If you are not smart enough to realize that telling people to leave hurts the overall game I don't know what to tell you... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LucisAbyssus Posted February 23, 2012 Share Posted February 23, 2012 When someone says "Go play that game, good riddance, I sure as hell won't miss you." I would say they are the person being immature and trolling. If you are not smart enough to realize that telling people to leave hurts the overall game I don't know what to tell you... Please don't act like a messiah. We wouldn't be telling these people to leave if they would actually be productive. Their "production" consists of whining without any sensible advice for Bioware other than FIX IT! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Knewt Posted February 23, 2012 Share Posted February 23, 2012 Did you seriously just offer a news paper over a professional Analyst AND EA Board? The people who invested the money in this game? Lol. I would discount it, as he himself did in his blog. The LA Time is a very reputable newspaper and has a very good bead on the video games industry. When they say "Wall Street analysts", that means they interviewed Wall Street analysts. Maybe you should go do some research about how newspapers differ from blogs. You should take everything a Wall Street Analyst says with a huge grain of salt. They usually have a huge conflict of interest since their firms will routinely handle extremely large equity offerings from corporations. That's because I'm not trolling people. If these people you speak of cared at all about the game, they would do something more constructive than post "this game is failing and they need to do something fast!". When you tell people to leave the game, you are trolling them. You are not having a discussion. You're telling them off. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FiveDeadlyVenoms Posted February 23, 2012 Share Posted February 23, 2012 (edited) AOC had content (i.e. quests all the way to the level cap). If the poster had said he didn't like the quests or didn't have anything to do at cap he would have been right, but saying there was no content after 20 is just false. Ask anyone that played AOC and they will tell you how it sucked after tortage. The only people who really liked the game were the hardcore player types because you were able to belittle people and express your true Epeen. AOC was not ready to go Live at launch. it was rushed out and it was pretty obvious had limited amount of instances and even fewer raids had games breaking glitches and bugs had no class balance Stabbing myself in the arm with a knife was more fun then lvling in AOC. only asian MMo's love lvling and have honestly made it into a artform. AOC had a Nasty, Selfish community on top of that Edited February 23, 2012 by FiveDeadlyVenoms Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LucisAbyssus Posted February 23, 2012 Share Posted February 23, 2012 The LA Time is a very reputable newspaper and has a very good bead on the video games industry. When they say "Wall Street analysts", that means they interviewed Wall Street analysts. Maybe you should go do some research about how newspapers differ from blogs. You should take everything a Wall Street Analyst says with a huge grain of salt. They usually have a huge conflict of interest since their firms will routinely handle extremely large equity offerings from corporations. When you tell people to leave the game, you are trolling them. You are not having a discussion. You're telling them off. THE LA TIMES DOESN'T HAVE MORE KNOWLEDGE OF THE SW:TOR BUDGET THAN EA! Jesus, lol. Any information you put out doesn't compute with what EA has to say on the matter, about THEIR OWN NUMBERS. A budget around 75-80 million dollars makes a lot more sense in relation to what EA has to say about their profit margins. I'm not trolling them, if anything people like me do Bioware a favor, because they aren't productive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Emeda Posted February 23, 2012 Share Posted February 23, 2012 because $15 is a lot of money??????? This game is already 20 times better then galaxies was. if I remember correctly Sony almost started a revolution on their forums when they decided to change elements in their game. Its more expensive to go to the movies for 2 people then it is to Play TOR, and then you'll be lucky if the movie doesn't suck. Forget about a family of 4. how many MMO's are out where you can play in some stupid fantasy world? what people don't realize is that MMO's are one of the hardest things to make, NOTHING IS GUARANTEED. If SWTOR was 20x better than SWG and SWG sucked so bad that no one wanted to play it then how is it the the CU/NGE almost started a revolution as you say it on their forums? No one liked the game right so everyone was welcoming the SWWOW. IF something sucks so bad that no one plays it and then they change it and everyone reconizes it as the biggest blunder in all the gaming world then that is actually saying the game didnt suck. If it really sucked no one would of even cared about the change and they would have gained subs when they did it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RudeDog Posted February 23, 2012 Share Posted February 23, 2012 Please don't act like a messiah. We wouldn't be telling these people to leave if they would actually be productive. Their "production" consists of whining without any sensible advice for Bioware other than FIX IT! There have been quite a few posts of people providing positive feedback with numerous other poster basically telling them to to "go back to SWG, WOW, etc.". Also, plenty of posters are complaining, quite rightly IMO, about the lack of features in a game that had a huge budget and a ton of development time. Not sure why you think your opinion is more valid than theirs. Maybe you should just stop telling people to leave? Their opinion is just as relevant as your opinion and telling someone to leave is just so...low class... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LucisAbyssus Posted February 23, 2012 Share Posted February 23, 2012 If SWTOR was 20x better than SWG and SWG sucked so bad that no one wanted to play it then how is it the the CU/NGE almost started a revolution as you say it on their forums? No one liked the game right so everyone was welcoming the SWWOW. IF something sucks so bad that no one plays it and then they change it and everyone reconizes it as the biggest blunder in all the gaming world then that is actually saying the game didnt suck. If it really sucked no one would of even cared about the change and they would have gained subs when they did it. SWG is dead. SW:TOR is not. There was no revolution. It was just most of their player base jumping ship and leaving behind graveyards of homes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LucisAbyssus Posted February 23, 2012 Share Posted February 23, 2012 There have been quite a few posts of people providing positive feedback with numerous other poster basically telling them to to "go back to SWG, WOW, etc.". Also, plenty of posters are complaining, quite rightly IMO, about the lack of features in a game that had a huge budget and a ton of development time. Not sure why you think your opinion is more valid than theirs. Maybe you should just stop telling people to leave? Their opinion is just as relevant as your opinion and telling someone to leave is just so...low class... Huge budget is 80 million with the main average of around 60 or so million spent on the game and the extra 17 million or so to voice acting and motion capture footage for their animations. An opinion can be relevant, but it doesn't have to be USEFUL, which most of them aren't. Telling the Company to FIX IT NOW, WE WANT IT NOW, ARGGGAGAGAGAGA isn't productive in the slightest. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FiveDeadlyVenoms Posted February 23, 2012 Share Posted February 23, 2012 (edited) If SWTOR was 20x better than SWG and SWG sucked so bad that no one wanted to play it then how is it the the CU/NGE almost started a revolution as you say it on their forums? No one liked the game right so everyone was welcoming the SWWOW. IF something sucks so bad that no one plays it and then they change it and everyone reconizes it as the biggest blunder in all the gaming world then that is actually saying the game didnt suck. If it really sucked no one would of even cared about the change and they would have gained subs when they did it. Yes, I agree with you Galaxies was the biggest blunder in History. it did suck . Some things they did right and others they did wrong just like every other MMO out right now. If I remember correctly you couldn't even be a Jedi in galaxies. you had to unlock it. I can probably Google galaxies right now and still see what a mess it was. Sony is a joke you really think DCOU is the success because of that idiot smeadly?? The only thing he did right was hired Jim Lee Edited February 23, 2012 by FiveDeadlyVenoms Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dezzi Posted February 23, 2012 Share Posted February 23, 2012 So you are comparing 2-3-4-5 year old MMO's to SWTOR....That has had 2 month's to bed in... Ok you do as you please, I have my issue's with the game but i love Star Wars, the basic's of this game are there to be seen, its had a bloody good launch in comparison (STO anyone) to other MMO's and with player feedback and support it will eventually be a great game... However I am absolutely positive you will not be here to see it, and move onto the next MMO that comes along, say GW2 where you will rant on there forum's about the exact same thing's. Eventually the chaff that litter's these forum's will be whittled down to the player's that actually want to be here, and hopefully then some of there idea's will get seen, and not washed away in total negativity from player's with no patience what so ever, who blatantly do not want to be here... Did you read the rest of my posts in this thread? Oh, of course you didn't. You zeroed in on this single one so you could launch your ad hominem missiles. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lowflyingmeat Posted February 23, 2012 Share Posted February 23, 2012 If any of you have been around launches of other MMOs (which I doubt many people here have), you come to realize that they aren't going to be perfect at launch. An MMO is a living, breathing game that evolves over time. Every single feature you want or have seen in other games will often be added in at a later date once they fix the most pressing post-launch issues. Let's look at the launch of WOW. Star Wars The Old Republic was developed from the ground up to break the status quo for MMORPGS, much like how WoW did it when it first entered the market. It has failed to break that status quo. While your argument is okay if we want to follow the status quo of "It will get better mentality", it goes against what Bioware intended in the first place. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RudeDog Posted February 23, 2012 Share Posted February 23, 2012 Ask anyone that played AOC and they will tell you how it sucked after tortage. The only people who really liked the game were the hardcore player types because you were able to belittle people and express your true Epeen. AOC was not ready to go Live at launch. it was rushed out and it was pretty obvious had limited amount of instances and even fewer raids had games breaking glitches and bugs had no class balance Stabbing myself in the arm with a knife was more fun then lvling in AOC. only asian MMo's love lvling and have honestly made it into a artform. AOC had a Nasty, Selfish community on top of that I don't know why I would ask someone since I played AoC at launch and played to level cap. I thought the game looked great and had decent questing until cap, although there were some levels where you had to grind. I wasn't a fan of the PVP, bugs, and combo system and I played one of the weaker classes, so I get why it wouldn't be everyone's cup of tea. It wasn't mine either, obviously, since I quit after 3 to 4 months. I am not even sure why we are arguing. One poster said there was no content after 20 and I said he was wrong. He was wrong. I am certainly not going to defend all the other things that you are saying were wrong with the game because you are right. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FiveDeadlyVenoms Posted February 23, 2012 Share Posted February 23, 2012 SWG is dead. SW:TOR is not. There was no revolution. It was just most of their player base jumping ship and leaving behind graveyards of homes. Stop it right there . I remember going to galaxies forum page and watching thread after thread get deleted or locked because of all the ************ and moaning when they revamped the game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dezzi Posted February 23, 2012 Share Posted February 23, 2012 Unfortunately, I think you're right. I enjoy discussing the success/failure of this game because it gives me insight into what kinds of players there are (and there are an infinite number of tastes) and what games those players gravitate toward. It also teaches me about business, game design, and community management--for free! I wish people could appreciate each other and their arguments/opinions. I truly do. I don't hate or dislike anyone in this thread--or on the forum--because they disagree with me. I assume that because we spend our time on the same forum shouting past each other is because we care about the game (success or fail). EDIT - The must insulting thing someone can do on this forum is tell another person to leave or shut up. There's so much of that going on in this thread, and it's a shame. I'm going to leave this right here... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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