MrOrionQuest Posted February 22, 2012 Share Posted February 22, 2012 I hope this settles things. Straight from a Dev's mouth: On Monday last week, Principal Lead Systems Designer Damion Schubert jumped in on a discussion about need vs. greed in SWTOR, revealing that there will be changes to the current system in the future: Need vs. greed isn't as simple in our game because of companions, as well as Orange Gear and mod extraction. We will probably limit the 'need' button to only people who match the primary class the gear is meant for, and add a new button in between need and greed for players to choose if they intend the gear for these purposes - this will allow CC users to roll against each other without competing with the guy who wants to sell the gear for credits. I don't have a timeline on this for you guys right now, though - certainly not in the next major patch. In the meantime, I strongly recommend that players who care clearly decide the expected need/greed role behaviors ('no companion need rolling or you're out!') when a group is initially formed. In the meantime, I'll work on getting this feature in the works. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Setanian Posted February 22, 2012 Share Posted February 22, 2012 I hope this settles things. Straight from a Dev's mouth: On Monday last week, Principal Lead Systems Designer Damion Schubert jumped in on a discussion about need vs. greed in SWTOR, revealing that there will be changes to the current system in the future: Need vs. greed isn't as simple in our game because of companions, as well as Orange Gear and mod extraction. We will probably limit the 'need' button to only people who match the primary class the gear is meant for, and add a new button in between need and greed for players to choose if they intend the gear for these purposes - this will allow CC users to roll against each other without competing with the guy who wants to sell the gear for credits. I don't have a timeline on this for you guys right now, though - certainly not in the next major patch. In the meantime, I strongly recommend that players who care clearly decide the expected need/greed role behaviors ('no companion need rolling or you're out!') when a group is initially formed. In the meantime, I'll work on getting this feature in the works. There was absolutely nothing made clear in that post by the dev. You can claim otherwise all you like, but the fact is, it's clear as mud. Please, please, please, by all that is mighty, stop posting in colours that are difficult to read even wearing sunglasses. Its hard to follow who's claiming what when I have to skip the walls of rainbows Lastly; The thing yer all forgetting... Once someone wins a bit of loot, the other players have no business with that loot, where it goes, what it's used for. If you rolled greed and lost it to a need roll, well you gave the player the chance to roll need, don't expect anything more. If you rolled need and lost, you lost. End of story. All this other rubbish is just opinion and being a bad loser. Fact is is long before the wow stuff we have one simple thing. /random. If you won you won, if you lost you lost. And, if another player wanted something you won, they bought it off you. That how you made coin in a game. You won gear, then used it, or sold it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrOrionQuest Posted February 22, 2012 Share Posted February 22, 2012 There was absolutely nothing made clear in that post by the dev. You can claim otherwise all you like, but the fact is, it's clear as mud. Please, please, please, by all that is mighty, stop posting in colours that are difficult to read even wearing sunglasses. Its hard to follow who's claiming what when I have to skip the walls of rainbows Lastly; The thing yer all forgetting... Once someone wins a bit of loot, the other players have no business with that loot, where it goes, what it's used for. If you rolled greed and lost it to a need roll, well you gave the player the chance to roll need, don't expect anything more. If you rolled need and lost, you lost. End of story. All this other rubbish is just opinion and being a bad loser. Fact is is long before the wow stuff we have one simple thing. /random. If you won you won, if you lost you lost. And, if another player wanted something you won, they bought it off you. That how you made coin in a game. You won gear, then used it, or sold it. We will probably limit the 'need' button to only people who match the primary class the gear is meant for, and add a new button in between need and greed for players to choose if they intend the gear for these purposes - this will allow CC users to roll against each other without competing with the guy who wants to sell the gear for credits. Did you even read this part? It literally nullifies your rant about winning gear by pure luck. Have fun not getting away with what you want when this gets implemented. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
universeman Posted February 22, 2012 Share Posted February 22, 2012 It really amazes me how people try to defend this argument, that rolling NEED for whatever reason they want is somehow justifiably "ok". But, I guess that's the internet for you. The good news is that BW realizes the problem exists and are going to fix it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coriolan_Martius Posted February 22, 2012 Share Posted February 22, 2012 Yeah, this happened to me yesterday. 1 person rolled for need on biometric alloy and columni bracers for their pet(and they got both). I joked around but on the inside I was pissed off. This after waiting so long to finally get a group for BT HM. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Setanian Posted February 22, 2012 Share Posted February 22, 2012 (edited) We will probably limit the 'need' button to only people who match the primary class the gear is meant for, and add a new button in between need and greed for players to choose if they intend the gear for these purposes - this will allow CC users to roll against each other without competing with the guy who wants to sell the gear for credits. Did you even read this part? It literally nullifies your rant about winning gear by pure luck. Have fun not getting away with what you want when this gets implemented. I think you mis-read, the part where 'probably' does not mean 'will' and, he is only 'getting it into the works'.. 'when this gets implemented' and a big 'if'.. Edited February 22, 2012 by Setanian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Setanian Posted February 22, 2012 Share Posted February 22, 2012 Yeah, this happened to me yesterday. 1 person rolled for need on biometric alloy and columni bracers for their pet(and they got both). I joked around but on the inside I was pissed off. This after waiting so long to finally get a group for BT HM. What did you roll? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Irusan Posted February 22, 2012 Share Posted February 22, 2012 I hope this settles things. Straight from a Dev's mouth: On Monday last week, Principal Lead Systems Designer Damion Schubert jumped in on a discussion about need vs. greed in SWTOR, revealing that there will be changes to the current system in the future: Need vs. greed isn't as simple in our game because of companions, as well as Orange Gear and mod extraction. We will probably limit the 'need' button to only people who match the primary class the gear is meant for, and add a new button in between need and greed for players to choose if they intend the gear for these purposes - this will allow CC users to roll against each other without competing with the guy who wants to sell the gear for credits. I don't have a timeline on this for you guys right now, though - certainly not in the next major patch. In the meantime, I strongly recommend that players who care clearly decide the expected need/greed role behaviors ('no companion need rolling or you're out!') when a group is initially formed. In the meantime, I'll work on getting this feature in the works. As much as it should settle things, you are going to have some folks quite resistant to having their troll fodder taken away. But...but....but...that doesn't say anything!!! And even if it does its going to be a LONG time before it happens!! Don't leave this thread I want to keep argueing!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThiborF Posted February 22, 2012 Share Posted February 22, 2012 As much as it should settle things, you are going to have some folks quite resistant to having their troll fodder taken away. But...but....but...that doesn't say anything!!! And even if it does its going to be a LONG time before it happens!! Don't leave this thread I want to keep argueing!!! No worries. They've also claimed we will be getting dual-spec at some point in the fairly near future so this debate will get replaced with the whole MS>OS (Main spec > Off-spec) discussion where once again people will try to tell others how to play and insist their opinion on a subject should be the default and any others with a differing view are wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Setanian Posted February 22, 2012 Share Posted February 22, 2012 No worries. They've also claimed we will be getting dual-spec at some point in the fairly near future so this debate will get replaced with the whole MS>OS (Main spec > Off-spec) discussion where once again people will try to tell others how to play and insist their opinion on a subject should be the default and any others with a differing view are wrong. Well the *fact* is, nothing is better than anything. You get a roll, you decide how to roll. Stop worrying about what other players do and the game will be a whole lot simpler. When you pay my subscription then you can tell me how to play, until then, I call the shots on the buttons I press. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malpracticex Posted February 22, 2012 Share Posted February 22, 2012 the bottom line is during flashpoints and operations, you will not have your companion to help with the group if the group is full. So with that being said, you have no right to loot gear for your companion if your companion is not helping. Doing so is just displaying your greed and lack of respect for others. I just think some love this thread to troll their little hearts out.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Setanian Posted February 22, 2012 Share Posted February 22, 2012 the bottom line is during flashpoints and operations, you will not have your companion to help with the group if the group is full. So with that being said, you have no right to loot gear for your companion if your companion is not helping. Doing so is just displaying your greed and lack of respect for others. I just think some love this thread to troll their little hearts out.. 1. If I help you complete a FP, I get to roll for loot. 2. How I roll is none of your business. 3. If I give winnings to my companions, is none of your business 4. If I sell my winning, it is none of your business. If you really want the item I won, I'll sell it to you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malpracticex Posted February 22, 2012 Share Posted February 22, 2012 1. If I help you complete a FP, I get to roll for loot. 2. How I roll is none of your business. 3. If I give winnings to my companions, is none of your business 4. If I sell my winning, it is none of your business. If you really want the item I won, I'll sell it to you. your exactly one of those I'm talking about.. greed and lack of respect for others Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ferroz Posted February 22, 2012 Share Posted February 22, 2012 (edited) The main question... 1) Is companion part of you?No, I'm a human. It's part of my character though. 2) Even if your companion is part of you but did not contribute to the group, should companions have same priority is the the main avatars?Neither of them get any priority. The humans get to roll; if they win, it goes into their character inventory. At that point, they can do with it what they want. No human gets priority over any other human; you can elect to give other humans priority over you for loot that you don't actually want. 3) If companions have same priority as players, in theory everyone should roll need on everything? Thus what is the point of greed button?"No" and "to allow people to auto loot items that noone particularly wants." respectively. So just to be clear, we all agree that we personally think the best priority is Player character > companion > credits.I don't think that's something that's agreed on. There are some people who think that, sure. and you might even have a whole page of people who think that. Edited February 22, 2012 by ferroz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShadowOfVey Posted February 22, 2012 Share Posted February 22, 2012 I think it's very rude to roll need for a companion against people rolling need to equip their own character. I would hate it if someone did that to me, so I don't do it to anyone else. Personally I just ask. "Can I roll need for my companion?". I tend to just watch how the rest of the group rolls first anyway, so if I see a need roll come up from someone that is of the appropriate class for the item...I don't even bother asking and just hit pass. Would be pretty neat having a "companion need" button on rolls though, that outprioritizes all greed rolls but loses to all ordinary need rolls. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ferroz Posted February 22, 2012 Share Posted February 22, 2012 I think it's very rude to roll need for a companion against people rolling need to equip their own character.Why? Why do you think one person's wants are more important than another person's wants? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gimixes Posted February 22, 2012 Share Posted February 22, 2012 Look how people act now, no respect to others and only greedy. Look how it goes when LFD is there... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Setanian Posted February 22, 2012 Share Posted February 22, 2012 your exactly one of those I'm talking about.. greed and lack of respect for others Greed? Where? I got a roll, I used it. You got a roll too... Did I ask you not to roll? No.. If anyone here is being greedy, it's you.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ferroz Posted February 22, 2012 Share Posted February 22, 2012 As much as it should settle things,We really don't have any idea what they're going to implement; banking on the idea that it's a solved issue because at some point they may implement a change ... that just seems far fetched. And whether they make a change or not really doesn't have anything to do with the morality discussion... and it's the same discussion that's been going on in MMOs for well over a decade, at least. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Setanian Posted February 22, 2012 Share Posted February 22, 2012 Look how people act now, no respect to others and only greedy. Look how it goes when LFD is there... Explain exactly, how it is greedy to roll need on an item you need? Bear in mind, you have absolutely no say in what I need and do not need. I don't tell you what you need, you don't get to tell me. And there-in lies the problem. You 'want' to be able to force me to do what you want, but, you can't. so you get your panties in a twist. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malpracticex Posted February 22, 2012 Share Posted February 22, 2012 Greed? Where? I got a roll, I used it. You got a roll too... Did I ask you not to roll? No.. If anyone here is being greedy, it's you.. your logic or lack there of is not only twisted, but humorous too:D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vecke Posted February 22, 2012 Share Posted February 22, 2012 (edited) I don't think that's something that's agreed on. There are some people who think that, sure. and you might even have a whole page of people who think that. That was to 4 specific people last night, not the entire community. Those 4 did agree on that. If you read the threads before and after, I thought that was pretty clear, as I even talked about the 4 of us bickering like spiced up jawas. Although - as I've said a good dozen times in this thread - I flip-flop on the issue constantly. I think both sides make very good points, predicated on the assumption that everyone is operating on the rule of thumb that "you only roll need for the character participating in the kill." Arguing whether that is a generally accepted rule of thumb - I've found - is another debate altogether. But the companion debate really hinges on that as a given, otherwise, there is no companion debate. It's just the debate that Setanian is having about NBG. If I'm understanding you correctly, your position is that - even when the companion is dismissed - he's still part of the character participating in the kill. I'm not saying that isn't a valid stance; I'm just saying it's very valid for others to disagree. I mean, your companion literally isn't there. They can't see him. They can't click him. He doesn't shoot anything. Setanian, however, is debating an entirely separate topic. He's debating against NBG in general. Has nothing to do companions. He thinks it's perfectly acceptable etiquette to roll need on every single item that drops, ever, and if you don't it's your loss. Setanian, I'm not saying that in judgment; just trying to get a clear picture. Feel free to correct me if I'm wrong. Have I got your two positions correctly? Just want to make sure I'm not creating an accidental straw man and debating a stance you don't actually have. Edited February 22, 2012 by Vecke Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saurakk Posted February 22, 2012 Share Posted February 22, 2012 your logic or lack there of is not only twisted, but humorous too:D You won't get anywhere. Stop trying with these two. After 100+ pages they have their opinion and will keep parroting the same thing regardless. Until a change is made, just communicate in group before hand. Hopefully the people who feel it is ok to roll need on companions will confirm that when asked (if you ask). Stay or leave depending on the answer and your stance on this issue. No other solution to it until BW steps up and prevents it IF they feel it is necessary. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ferroz Posted February 22, 2012 Share Posted February 22, 2012 (edited) your logic or lack there of is not only twisted, but humorous too:Dhow is it twisted? person one says: "I want that. No, you cannot roll on it, it's MINE." and if you roll against him, he rants about you. person two says: "I want that. Sure, if you want it too, go ahead and roll" and if you win it, he says "grats man!" It looks like person one is clearly the greedy one... Seems logical. No twisty-ness to it. Maybe some ironic humor, since the people who are complaining about greed are blind to their own greed. Edited February 22, 2012 by ferroz clarity Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Setanian Posted February 22, 2012 Share Posted February 22, 2012 your logic or lack there of is not only twisted, but humorous too:D Ok, explain my lack of logic then. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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