Playing a sorc, hoping for a sorc nerf

[TetraCleric]

Oh look, the bad spec Sorc leaks over into other topics defending himself.

 

I wish I was bad.

[Spero-Mcgee]

Off topic, but on my sawbones I always try and keep at least 3 slow release hots up so i can keep upper hand up. sawbones with no upper hand may as well be dead already.

 

Yeah, indeed though the part that it can only proct every 6 seconds can be a bit troublesome at times. In a pinch I cast underworld medicine, but depending on the flow, I sometimes cast it and forgot to notice I already had 2 upper hand, though if I only had 1 that usually works out fine. However as you know how hectic pvp can be, any interupts either from regular melee/ranged interupts up to charging and so on, really messes me up.

Knowing this myself personally as a healer also helps me combat other healers regardless of their class when I'm playing dps or in a tank role.

[veyl]

I am a geared Sentinel, the class with possibly the most interrupts and the best chance 1v1.

 

I cannot kill a geared healing Sorc in a purely 1v1 scenario. Not even close. Don't give me this "just interrupt and CC!" garbage. The Sorc can CC too. And once everything is on cooldown you're stuck watching them heal. They have too much escapability.

 

Next will be the "learn to play your class" nonsense. Whatever. We all know the truth.

 

You're right. We all know the truth that you're either:

A) A horrible player, because no "geared" sentinel would ever fail against a healing sorc. Do you ever use your mortal strike? you know youre the only class with that ability, right?

B) Continuing to troll because you have nothing better to do.

 

First I have both a 50 Gunslinger and a 50 DPS Hybrid Sorcerer, the Gunslinger is my main.

 

The Hybrid builds for Sorcerers are common for several reasons, but one of the primary reasons is that the top tier talents are pretty useless in PvP situations. Even with the top tier talents Sorcerers really don't have any burst comparable to other classes.

 

To be viable in PvP on my Sorcerer I have really no choice but to go hybrid. I find that in PvP on my Sorcerer I mostly focus on keeping pressure on the healers with AoE, using CC to help keep our healers alive, etc. 1vs1 against any equally geared competent DPS class is usually a loss. To win I have to run, CC, slow, DoT, basically use all my abilities to have a fair chance of winning and hope at least some of the slows and other abilities of my opponent are on cool down.

 

But then PvP is seldom 1v1. If I can sneak around, cast my AoE, DoTs, and channeled spells uninterrupted I can do good damage. But then letting someone cast TMs or GMs uninterrupted is much worse.

 

The Hybrid Sorcerer is a jack of all trades and while he/she doesn't have any glaring weakness neither does he/she have really outstanding strength.

 

Any changes would have to be carefully thought out to keep Sorcerers/Sages viable in PvP and I don't see much evidence of that here. Mostly it would revolve around making top tier talents "must haves" while still keeping the class viable in PvP.

 

P.S. Sorcerers/Sages are not the only classes that use hybrid builds for PvP.

 

^ rational//logical post that actually makes sense.

[Lacedemon]

DPS Sorcs have fantastic utility probably exceeding that or a Jugg/Guard, however they melt in seconds when any serious dmg is put on them. Healer sorcs are quite difficult at times to burst down but not massively harder than say Trooper/BH or IA/Smug healers.

 

As a Knight/Warrior once you decide you want to kill a given Sorc he is dead. Once overload is used and on CD if you decide you want to keep going and kill him he is quite frankly ****ed. Unless I do something stupid (or a juicer target presents itself) Sorcs do not get away from me.

[Redmarx]

I am a geared Sentinel, the class with possibly the most interrupts and the best chance 1v1.

 

I cannot kill a geared healing Sorc in a purely 1v1 scenario. Not even close. Don't give me this "just interrupt and CC!" garbage. The Sorc can CC too. And once everything is on cooldown you're stuck watching them heal. They have too much escapability.

 

Next will be the "learn to play your class" nonsense. Whatever. We all know the truth.

 

We do know the truth. You're bad. Like... awful at PVP.

 

Until you realise it you won't get better.

 

Sorcs are squishy, very squishy; and good premades are killing them quickly and with ease.

 

You're not because you're bad and no good premade would take a sentinel, a sentinel of all classes, who can't kill a sorc of any spec 1v1.

Edited February 28, 2012 by Redmarx

[Urke]

That bubble neeed a longer cooldown, i find it easy enough to kill sorc if i use all my interrupts right, forget to interrupt them once and they heal them selfs and their backup comes before you can finish them off... i love punching them in the face with stockstrike with my vanguard

[Redmarx]

That bubble neeed a longer cooldown, i find it easy enough to kill sorc if i use all my interrupts right, forget to interrupt them once and they heal them selfs and their backup comes before you can finish them off... i love punching them in the face with stockstrike with my vanguard

 

It's a 3.5k bubble with a 20 second cooldown (17s with set bonus). If you can't punch through that and then punch through the sorc like butter, you don't really know how to play the game yet.

[Reznix]

the people who complain about bubble, are the same classes that can disappear when they have 2 hitpoints left. or have much more armour and hitpoints than your average sorc.

[savionen]

the people who complain about bubble, are the same classes that can disappear when they have 2 hitpoints left. or have much more armour and hitpoints than your average sorc.

 

Sorcerers have the same HP as everybody else (aside from people in tank-gear.)

[hulkweazel]

Reason 3: Bioware isn't going to just simply nerf a class, they will change it so it is more viable in different ways (Operatives for example less damage.. more control)

Still waiting for Ops to get more control...

It's a 3.5k bubble with a 20 second cooldown (17s with set bonus). If you can't punch through that and then punch through the sorc like butter, you don't really know how to play the game yet.

Yeah oh noes, 20 second cooldown.

 

Let's take a look at Op cooldowns:

Shield Probe, 45 seconds and only shields self for next to nothing.

Evasion, 1 minute cooldown and only purpose is to cleanse debuffs.

Cloaking Screen, 3 minute cooldown and prevents all heals.

 

Yeah, waiting 20 seconds to bubble anyone is REAL tough.

 

I don't have a problem with bubble, but seriously, sorcs whining about a freaking 20 second cooldown?

 

In any case, Sorcs WILL get nerfed. the devs even said their healing is a bit too strong and they will make changes to it.

Edited February 28, 2012 by hulkweazel

[Cruxe]

I lol'd all the way to the grocery store, the operative nerf is the stupidest nerf ive ever seen, more control ? all they did was lower our damage to the ground, how does that give us more control lmfao

 

After the damage nerf your stuns create less resolve. The fact that you don't know this explains why you have trouble killing anything, let alone a sorc.

[The_FeniX]

DPS Sorcs have fantastic utility probably exceeding that or a Jugg/Guard, however they melt in seconds when any serious dmg is put on them. Healer sorcs are quite difficult at times to burst down but not massively harder than say Trooper/BH or IA/Smug healers.

I'd argue the "seconds" comment, but it's really not worth it. Yea, I eat up Sorc/Sages 1vs1 even with my 14/27/0 build. It's not guaranteed by any means though. Maybe 60-70%, which is pretty good odds.

 

But if you have 3 melee facing off against 3 Sorcs, you get free tickets to Root-fest and it's just yawn inducing.

 

Personally, rather than bother with the Sorcs, I'd like to see what happens if you gave Guardians a way to spec into having Force/Guardian Leap remove roots. Then Sorcs/Sages have to kite within your minimum range, relying more on snares (which actually affect resolve) and positional awareness aside from LOS. This would address my main complaint with the class: not that's it's overpowered, but that it's skill-cap seems to revolve around smashing your face on certain parts of the keyboard.

 

I imagine the QQ on the forums would be insane, but hilarious to read.

[Redmarx]

Sorcs have no other defensive cooldowns apart from the bubble. Every other class has defensive cooldowns, even assassins, the other inquisitor subclass.

 

Look, I keep saying it but the bad players don't get it.

 

Sorcs are not overpowered, not in any spec.

 

If you think they are, you need to immediately realise that you're bad at PVP and need to improve. Nerfing sorcs will not change the fact that you're bad. It will only create another gimped class like operatives are now.

 

Good players in good premades already know sorcs are average in top end PVP. It will become more obvious once rated warzones come out and apart from a healer sorc, all teams will run marauders, powertechs, etc as dps.

Edited February 28, 2012 by Redmarx

[savionen]

Sorcs have no other defensive cooldowns.

 

Look, I keep saying it but the bad players don't get it.

 

Sorcs are not overpowered, not in any spec.

 

If you think they are, you need to immediately realise that you're bad at PVP and need to improve. Nerfing sorcs will not change the fact that you're bad. It will only create another gimped class like operatives are now.

 

Good players in good premades already know sorcs are average in top end PVP.

 

 

They don't need any other defensive cooldowns... Evading combat when you're about to die and being able to heal is a lot more powerful than taking slightly less damage and not being able to move.

[Redmarx]

They don't need any other defensive cooldowns... Evading combat when you're about to die and being able to heal is a lot more powerful than taking slightly less damage and not being able to move.

 

Evading combat? Are you that bad that you let sorcs escape you? They are easy to pin down and squishy to burst down. If you can't do it, you pretty much confirmed you are horrible at PVP.

[savionen]

Evading combat? Are you that bad that you let sorcs escape you? They are easy to pin down and squishy to burst down. If you can't do it, you pretty much confirmed you are horrible at PVP.

 

That's some good logic there. If you don't agree with me you're bad. So I guess, if you think Sorcs are fine, you're bad.

 

Sorcerer/Sage have the most mobility out of any ranged class, mixed with all the CC, are almost impossible to stick to as a melee class. If you're a ranged class they still beat you on mobility. How does a Sniper or a Mercenary chase a Sorcerer in a Warzone?

 

Seriously. Compare something like an Assault Vanguard to a Hybrid Sorcerer and tell me how the Sorcerer doesn't set the pace of the fight. There's LoS ALL over the place in Warzones, and with so much on-demand CC, Force Run and being a ranged class, a Sorcerer can easily move out of sight.

Edited February 28, 2012 by savionen

[Redmarx]

That's some good logic there. If you don't agree with me you're bad. So I guess, if you think Sorcs are fine, you're bad.

 

Sorcerer/Sage have the most mobility out of any ranged class, mixed with all the CC, are almost impossible to stick to as a melee class. If you're a ranged class they still beat you on mobility. How does a Sniper or a Mercenary chase a Sorcerer in a Warzone?

 

Seriously. Compare something like an Assault Vanguard to a Hybrid Sorcerer and tell me how the Sorcerer doesn't set the pace of the fight. There's LoS ALL over the place in Warzones, and with so much on-demand burst CC, Force Run and being a ranged class, a Sorcerer can easily move out of sight.

 

Vanguards are much, much stronger than sorcs at PVP. Much higher burst damage, and hard to train down while being able to dps fully on the move.

 

Look, it's obvious you're just another bad pugger who doesn't really understand the game. If you did, you'd understand what all the good premades understand. You don't run dps sorcs when the opposite teams runs marauders and powertechs (vanguards) who excel at shutting down and killing sorcs with ease.

Edited February 28, 2012 by Redmarx

[EtiMos]

By the number of posts so far we can jump in 2 conclusions:

 

1)There are so many classes annoyed by the Sorcerers/Sages abilities.

 

2)There are so many Sorcerers/Sages atm defending their class.

 

Both point to the fact that there is a problem with this class.

 

In my opinion their dps/healing is fine but the REAL problem is the small amount of force they are spending when they are spamming their abilities.

 

Btw i have played and lvl 6 classes so far included 1 Sage and 1 Sorcerer.

[skarlson]

That bubble neeed a longer cooldown, i find it easy enough to kill sorc if i use all my interrupts right, forget to interrupt them once and they heal them selfs and their backup comes before you can finish them off... i love punching them in the face with stockstrike with my vanguard

 

So your problem is basically sorcerers are not so squishy that you are capable of killing them before help can arrive to kill you? The definition of OP right here!

[Urke]

So your problem is basically sorcerers are not so squishy that you are capable of killing them before help can arrive to kill you? The definition of OP right here!

 

sorry i probably didnt say it right i dont find them overpowered, I meant that they are easy to to kill if you interrupt them right but if you dont use interrupts they are hard to take down... i just think that maybe that bubble should have a bit longer cooldown or not i dont really know how long the cooldown it is i just see them pop one after another in less than a min but i guess they could have some ability that ends cooldown right away or something... otherwise i dont find them overpowered at all 1v1 they are nothing if you use interrupts...

[Zaodon]

Major sorc/sage nerf in 1.1.5 !!!!

 

"* Players affected by a Damage Over Time ability are no longer interrupted when interacting with objectives."

 

This is game-changing !!!

 

But at least sorcs/sages are now balanced.

 

/thread

[Trbount]

I've ran a sorcerer to battle master and I have to agree with the above statements that marauder and powertech wreck me. I think this whole conversation is a L2P issue. Sorcerers aren't that hard to take down. Good teams don't let them sit and free cast.

[Ozith]

In my opinion their dps/healing is fine but the REAL problem is the small amount of force they are spending when they are spamming their abilities.

 

Sorc heals get free a consumption(8% force back) based on their criticals when channeling Innervate, that's why if you don't interrupt Innervate, we won't run out of force. Operatives get energy back based on their channel as well. With a pool of only 600, we'd run out of force in under a minute without some form of force battery ability.

 

Like i said, however, we will run out of force pretty quick without our Innervate. But then again, good players know their own weakness and bait interrupts on other heals so they can get a free cast innervate

[skarlson]

sorry i probably didnt say it right...

 

My apologies. I read what you said again and I can see it might easily be taken the way you said. I don't agree the bubble needs a longer cd but neither here nor there!

[clovislefranc]

I've just seen the first comment of this thread.

 

I'm now copying a post i've done b4 because I really want people, and dev, to see it

 

(PS: My main character is a 0/21/20 dps sage,R62)

 

The answer to "Sage does not need a nerf" is : Look what's the most played class in pvp.

 

Personally, I think that devz should have nerfed the cc a lot, because that's what people are whining about xD and the damages less, and a different way (look at sentinel... They do real damages them xD)

 

 

Because they have survavibility, and with their sprint, control, are the best class for win a wz at this time. (BTW : Win a WZ is different of "Being overcheated on 6v6 pvp middle)

My class clearly needs a BIG nerf.

But, not a nerf who's gonna ruin the "fun" of the gameplay of the class... Devz can do a nerf who's gonna make happy all the forum "whinners" who say "nerf sorcccc" because they think that, with their pve spec/gear, they have to be powerful in pvp.

But, they can do a nerf who's not gonna ruin the 0/21/20 fun. (I'm repeating myself, well...)

 

 

Here's a copy of one of my post, i copy it here because it's one of the post who talk about the nerf, and i really want a dev to see it :

Well, I've seen the patchnote for sage. I play 0/21/20 Sage dps pvp...

 

I'm sad because I'm quite a good player, i love what you did of the sage : all those crowd control, etc... Can heal himself, does correct damages...

 

But I'm really sad about the "Presence of mind does now affects disturbance and min crush" only ; you're killing the spell "Telekinetic wave" by doing that, for this spec...

 

I mean, i'm not like all those whiners, who think a nerf is not fair...

The pvp dps sage need a nerf, it's clear, but not like that because, by doing that, the spec will be really boring to play and you can nerf the spec the same, but with another way...

 

The nerf you're testing on the pts (and please, just don't apply it on the real servers) makes the class really BORING to play, kills the gameplay, etc...

Be honest : 0/21/20 use 4 dps spells : TT, Mind crush, Telekinetic Wave, Weaken Mind.

This nerf totally kills TW ; We will only be TT spammers, after 1.2 ... mc & wm are CD...

If you do that, it would mean that you want the sage to look like

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TAq7P...layer_embedded

but, doing 2x less damages...

 

The sage isn't so "overcheated", it's a good class, but, before all, very easy to play! That's the power of the class.

Other classes are really powerful, but much harder to play correctly...

 

 

 

A good nerf, for me, could have been :

- 10% less damages for Project

- 10% less damages for Disturbance (Or not, if you don't want to nerf pve telekinetic)

- 10% less damages for TT

And, if you want to nerf the fact that sage can have 2 big instant AOE...

- 25% less dmg on all the AOE of the sage (I'm a french player, i don't know all their names...)

 

 

By doing that, you nerf the sage the same, but you don't totally kill the gameplay...

 

 

Because the way you listened without think the whines of the whiners "nerf sage, nerf sorc" etc... You can't realize how much this update is badly done if your devs have never played 0/21/20...

 

 

 

Another idea (Without "destroy" the gameplay quality of the class)

I'm repeating myself, but :

On Fr forums, someone has not understood that i WANT a nerf of the class, but if you do this nerf, the 0/21/20 will no longer exist, not because it will be too weak (Well, it will be weak, but, if u want that...) , but because it will be too buring to play her... We'll just have 1 spell to spamm for our damages...

 

 

An equivalent nerf could be, because you seem to think that the ability of the sage to have 2 instant AOE is too powerful :

- CD of Telekinetic wave : 6s -> 10s

- CD of Force in Balance : 15s -> 25s

- Telekinetic wave does 30% less damages

- Force in Balance does 30% less damages

 

Well, it's an idea : The point is : "Nerf the 0/21/20 sage spec, but without making her too boring to play"

 

And if you want to nerf the pvp sage, not the pve sage, you can do :

- Telekinec wave and Force in Balance do 40% less damages versus players

 

My point is : You can nerf the sage by another ways, without killing the "fun" of a spec a lot of players love to play...