Gaurdians STOP Complaining

[Malifaxis]

Lol at everyone saying "your not level 50 yet and have no right to post about the class". If you bothered to read his post he is not far off, if you think guardians are horrible then your doing it wrong. His post is not that far off.

 

Lets take a look at his points:

1. We have one of the highest burst dps in the game, achieved through the focus build.

This is completely true, a focus guard bursts harder than any other class in the game, i can often times take out a target with 5+ people beating on me if they don't cc correctly or just resolve cap me too fast. Everyone only thinks about the sweep, but in an optimal situation imagine the last tic of Force Exhaustion critting for 2k at the same time your sweeping for 6k followed immediately by a free 3-4k bladestorm. That's 11-12k dmg in a period of time they dont have a chance to react.

 

2. We have one of the best MAINTAINED dps in the game, through the Vigilance spec.

I think ranged classes have a better time with sustained constant dps, probably giving the nod to powertechs and vanguards as the best, but vigilance is very good at sticking on a target compared to other melee's, not to mention they are one of if not the best huttball ball carrier in the game. For a person who wants to tank the hybrid vig/defense combo is amazing. I have seen a person pull 200kdmg and 300kdefense in an alderan.

 

3. We can tank pretty darn well, and off tank any time.

If you are talking about PvE, guards are fine, they have I think the best tanking cd's in the game (not 100% sure on this). But either way guards are tanking the hardest content in the game and doing fine.

 

PvP is another matter, but to be honest the better tanking tree in PvP is vigilance hybrid spec. The defense tree needs some work to be viable in PvP imo.

4. The way we create mana ( focus, force bar) is unique in that we can create our own focus by just attacking guys instead of waiting for the bar to eiher to cooldown or regen.

This is true, not sure it's really an issue though.

 

5. Honestly, you so called Tankers( Soresu ) "think" your weak. Think again. You guys take forever to kill, its disgusting. And don't get me started on how many defensive CD's you guys have.

Off a bit here, if their cooldowns are up, sure it takes a while. If they are not, I can blow through a 19k hp defense guardian/jugg in about 10-15s as a focus guard. This is why pure defense is a bad choice as they aren't much more than a meat shield. Vigilance/defense guards have the same cooldowns, last just as long if not longer as they have dmg reduction not on cooldowns, and put out more dmg.

 

So to sum it up, for pvp and pve there is 1 spec that is not viable and is only not viable for PvP, the full defense guard. Once dual spec comes out, there should be no issue whatsoever.

 

For all of you saying your not level 50 you have no clue about the class, I'm saying to you it's even more sad that you are level 50 and have no clue about the class.

[Mikster_]

Lol at everyone saying "your not level 50 yet and have no right to post about the class". If you bothered to read his post he is not far off, if you think guardians are horrible then your doing it wrong. His post is not that far off.

 

Lets take a look at his points:

1. We have one of the highest burst dps in the game, achieved through the focus build.

This is completely true, a focus guard bursts harder than any other class in the game, i can often times take out a target with 5+ people beating on me if they don't cc correctly or just resolve cap me too fast. Everyone only thinks about the sweep, but in an optimal situation imagine the last tic of Force Exhaustion critting for 2k at the same time your sweeping for 6k followed immediately by a free 3-4k bladestorm. That's 11-12k dmg in a period of time they dont have a chance to react.

 

2. We have one of the best MAINTAINED dps in the game, through the Vigilance spec.

I think ranged classes have a better time with sustained constant dps, probably giving the nod to powertechs and vanguards as the best, but vigilance is very good at sticking on a target compared to other melee's, not to mention they are one of if not the best huttball ball carrier in the game. For a person who wants to tank the hybrid vig/defense combo is amazing. I have seen a person pull 200kdmg and 300kdefense in an alderan.

 

3. We can tank pretty darn well, and off tank any time.

If you are talking about PvE, guards are fine, they have I think the best tanking cd's in the game (not 100% sure on this). But either way guards are tanking the hardest content in the game and doing fine.

 

PvP is another matter, but to be honest the better tanking tree in PvP is vigilance hybrid spec. The defense tree needs some work to be viable in PvP imo.

4. The way we create mana ( focus, force bar) is unique in that we can create our own focus by just attacking guys instead of waiting for the bar to eiher to cooldown or regen.

This is true, not sure it's really an issue though.

 

5. Honestly, you so called Tankers( Soresu ) "think" your weak. Think again. You guys take forever to kill, its disgusting. And don't get me started on how many defensive CD's you guys have.

Off a bit here, if their cooldowns are up, sure it takes a while. If they are not, I can blow through a 19k hp defense guardian/jugg in about 10-15s as a focus guard. This is why pure defense is a bad choice as they aren't much more than a meat shield. Vigilance/defense guards have the same cooldowns, last just as long if not longer as they have dmg reduction not on cooldowns, and put out more dmg.

 

So to sum it up, for pvp and pve there is 1 spec that is not viable and is only not viable for PvP, the full defense guard. Once dual spec comes out, there should be no issue whatsoever.

 

For all of you saying your not level 50 you have no clue about the class, I'm saying to you it's even more sad that you are level 50 and have no clue about the class.

 

Couldn't say it better than myself. Thanks for imputing some useful information instead of trolling. Thanks again.

 

I could say as an overall consensus that Guardian are Balanced and its just the other class in the game which are more powerful if they are. ( NOT:rolleyes:)

[Calei]

Guys, we honestly need to stop QQing about our class. I'm currently a lvl 27 Jedi Guardian(focus), and I can say as a fact (imo) that we are one of the strongest classes in the game.(Also most of the classes are pretty balanced)

 

Most QQers right now are around lvl 10-30, most of them complain how they get rofl stomped by other class ... Of course your going to get stomped on if your a low level class! Any class in the game will get owned by a higher lvl class. I have experienced this myself, however, I sucked it up and just lvled up some more before I pvp. And now I am having a ton of fun owning imperials who think they are good.

 

And here are my reasons why our guardian class is one of the strongest in the game.

 

(In no particular order)

 

1. We have one of the highest burst dps in the game, achieved through the focus build.

2. We have one of the best MAINTAINED dps in the game, through the Vigilance spec.

3. We can tank pretty darn well, and off tank any time.

4. The way we create mana ( focus, force bar) is unique in that we can create our own focus by just attacking guys instead of waiting for the bar to eiher to cooldown or regen.

5. Honestly, you so called Tankers( Soresu ) "think" your weak. Think again. You guys take forever to kill, its disgusting. And don't get me started on how many defensive CD's you guys have.

 

 

I just wanted to bring this to the Jedi community to stop the qqing monster which is in our forums. So please guys stop complaining and qqing.

 

p.s ( this thread is about me qqing about qqers , bring it on trolls)

 

I might come back to this class, one day, who knows. I rolled a commando trooper instead and I felt far more useful in PVE/PVP than the Guardian. Playing a Guardian to me was like playing on a handicap. Sure you might say it's hard or challenging but, there are different kinds of challenges. You could have broken hard, unfair hard or deceptive hard. I don't mind a good challenge but, paying the Guardian felt like the class was broken and useless. That was early levels though, I just couldn't take it anymore. After lvl 22 I've had enough.

[JamieKirby]

My trouble started on Tatooine, from then on, it was too difficult for me to keep going on that class, leveled up other classes, zoomed past the guardian, only dying due to connection issues, unlike the guardian where its caused by its weakness.

 

Never really got into pvp, i found it too predictable, but going through the planets.

 

Tython = Fine

 

Coruscant = Fine

 

Taris = Fine, just needed to upgrade my gear/mods

 

Nar Shaddaa = Fine

 

Tatooine = Difficult, it got more and more difficult from this point on, after dying dozens of times, i managed to get to Alderaan.

 

Alderaan = Too Difficult, this is where i stopped playing this class.

 

The amount of damage i take is just too much and i am interupting the super powerful attacks, i am thinking its the damage mitigation that is fubar'ed and please don't tell me to spec as defense, because if that is the only viable spec, then bioware needs to fix the other 2 trees.

[Dwyer]

Bah, I hate to be that guy, but the biggest reason I complain about my guardian is the lack of the ability to pull my hood down and the lack of armor like the one advertised on the cover.

[Aerion]

You know OP, calling people who voice complains that you don't agree with QQers is not really constructive. However lets look at the points you list:

 

1. We have one of the highest burst dps in the game, achieved through the focus build.

 

That's true, I personaly don't like the way the Focus spec plays, but I can't say that it doesn't deal high burst damage, still I think that the highest burstdamage is dealt by Rogues/Operatives, but that's not the point.

 

2. We have one of the best MAINTAINED dps in the game, through the Vigilance spec.

 

Again, I won't disagree that the Vigilance spec deals good maintained damage, I don't know if it's the best, and I doubt that anyone can say it for sure, in theory, but there are other problems in practice, I'll get to them later.

 

3. We can tank pretty darn well, and off tank any time.

 

Yes we can tank pretty darn well, but the other tanks can do it just as well if not better, so I don't see how this makes us the best class.

 

4. The way we create mana ( focus, force bar) is unique in that we can create our own focus by just attacking guys instead of waiting for the bar to eiher to cooldown or regen.

 

The truth is that all classes are in an constant equilibrium of gaining and spending resources, a Knight can just as well be focus starved as a Consular can go OOF or a Bounty Hunter can overheat, there are different styles of resources, but none is superior.

 

5. Honestly, you so called Tankers( Soresu ) "think" your weak. Think again. You guys take forever to kill, its disgusting. And don't get me started on how many defensive CD's you guys have.

 

If I had to make a list of classes that are hard to kill Defense Knights would probably be somewhere in the middle. Serveral classes are a lot harder to kill and most of them hit harder. And the many cooldowns (three if you count in Enure) are part of what many Defensers complain about: They have barely any Damagemigration without them.

 

 

Now lets get to the problems I mentioned earlier: Most of your points are true, if exaggerated, but they are not the problem people complain about, the real problem is that Knights have to work harder than any other class to archive the same results.

 

They have to use more abilitys, watch more cooldowns and procs, they have to work just to stay in combat range and they have it a lot harder to prevent enemys from capturing turrets or plant/defuse bombs.

 

This is what people complain about, nobody says that Knights are simply underpowered, but they are at an disadventage because they are by far the hardest class to play.

[JefferyClark]

You know OP, calling people who voice complains that you don't agree with QQers is not really constructive. However lets look at the points you list:

 

1. We have one of the highest burst dps in the game, achieved through the focus build.

 

That's true, I personaly don't like the way the Focus spec plays, but I can't say that it doesn't deal high burst damage, still I think that the highest burstdamage is dealt by Rogues/Operatives, but that's not the point.

 

2. We have one of the best MAINTAINED dps in the game, through the Vigilance spec.

 

Again, I won't disagree that the Vigilance spec deals good maintained damage, I don't know if it's the best, and I doubt that anyone can say it for sure, in theory, but there are other problems in practice, I'll get to them later.

 

3. We can tank pretty darn well, and off tank any time.

 

Yes we can tank pretty darn well, but the other tanks can do it just as well if not better, so I don't see how this makes us the best class.

 

4. The way we create mana ( focus, force bar) is unique in that we can create our own focus by just attacking guys instead of waiting for the bar to eiher to cooldown or regen.

 

The truth is that all classes are in an constant equilibrium of gaining and spending resources, a Knight can just as well be focus starved as a Consular can go OOF or a Bounty Hunter can overheat, there are different styles of resources, but none is superior.

 

5. Honestly, you so called Tankers( Soresu ) "think" your weak. Think again. You guys take forever to kill, its disgusting. And don't get me started on how many defensive CD's you guys have.

 

If I had to make a list of classes that are hard to kill Defense Knights would probably be somewhere in the middle. Serveral classes are a lot harder to kill and most of them hit harder. And the many cooldowns (three if you count in Enure) are part of what many Defensers complain about: They have barely any Damagemigration without them.

 

 

Now lets get to the problems I mentioned earlier: Most of your points are true, if exaggerated, but they are not the problem people complain about, the real problem is that Knights have to work harder than any other class to archive the same results.

 

They have to use more abilitys, watch more cooldowns and procs, they have to work just to stay in combat range and they have it a lot harder to prevent enemys from capturing turrets or plant/defuse bombs.

 

This is what people complain about, nobody says that Knights are simply underpowered, but they are at an disadventage because they are by far the hardest class to play.

 

Amen. I would add that part of the issue is that our heavy armor adds some mitigation to energy/kinetic, however, it is not enough; and you can forget about having more mitigation to internal/elemental - which is the main type of damage we take. Anything that costs force/focus/whatever may say it does energy/kinetic but when it hits us, it's a "yellow" damage, not "white." Jedi Consulars at level 1 have more mitigation to internal/elemental than a fully geared level 50 Guardian.

Edited February 23, 2012 by JefferyClark

[JamieKirby]

Amen. I would add that part of the issue is that our heavy armor adds some mitigation to energy/kinetic, however, it is not enough; and you can forget about having more mitigation to internal/elemental - which is the main type of damage we take. Anything that costs force/focus/whatever may say it does energy/kinetic but when it hits us, it's a "yellow" damage, not "white." Jedi Consulars at level 1 have more mitigation to internal/elemental than a fully geared level 50 Guardian.

 

Well, according to Bioware they are sorting this mitigation problem out, but all i have seen them do is add more stuff.....which is not helping the situation.

 

So, i am thinking i will give this game a rest until they actually do what they said they are working on.

[Loendar]

Mikster, wrong. What prevents defense guardians from doing damage is weak attacks and itemized gear. The change in PvP would be minor, due to the fact that in almost every case Focus is not an issue, it is however in PvE when trying to claw back agro. Remember that with Soresu you're also losing out on all the extra damage from the other forms, it's not like receiving 2 Focus from Slash is going to make Slash hit for any more than it does. The GCD alone does more to inhibit damage than Focus ever did.

 

On your second point, the melee/ranged idea doesn't do anything but buff melee. What assists melee would be increased mobility to target, damage doesn't mean anything in this equation. Also adding damage for threat doesn't scale: every melee does more damage, so the tank has the same net threat? No...

 

What Soresu must do is scale against DPS output. As gear increases, the damage output of a Defense Guardian increases at a flatter rate: we get bigger health pools and better avoidance. So either they re-itemize the game or they tweak Soresu's threat multiplier. That way they leave the class distinctions and tanks get to hold agro.

 

Edit: But I will agree, only if they fix agro in general, that there would be less of a need to change focus generation of Soresu. But the issue is always gaining agro, since at the start of fights or when the Guardian is not the target of attacks they are effectively cut off.

 

I agree with everything here and especially the edit, an aggro fix alone would go a long way to making the class presentable.

[Loendar]

Lol at everyone saying "your not level 50 yet and have no right to post about the class". If you bothered to read his post he is not far off, if you think guardians are horrible then your doing it wrong. His post is not that far off.

 

Lets take a look at his points:

1. We have one of the highest burst dps in the game, achieved through the focus build.

This is completely true, a focus guard bursts harder than any other class in the game, i can often times take out a target with 5+ people beating on me if they don't cc correctly or just resolve cap me too fast. Everyone only thinks about the sweep, but in an optimal situation imagine the last tic of Force Exhaustion critting for 2k at the same time your sweeping for 6k followed immediately by a free 3-4k bladestorm. That's 11-12k dmg in a period of time they dont have a chance to react.

 

2. We have one of the best MAINTAINED dps in the game, through the Vigilance spec.

I think ranged classes have a better time with sustained constant dps, probably giving the nod to powertechs and vanguards as the best, but vigilance is very good at sticking on a target compared to other melee's, not to mention they are one of if not the best huttball ball carrier in the game. For a person who wants to tank the hybrid vig/defense combo is amazing. I have seen a person pull 200kdmg and 300kdefense in an alderan.

 

3. We can tank pretty darn well, and off tank any time.

If you are talking about PvE, guards are fine, they have I think the best tanking cd's in the game (not 100% sure on this). But either way guards are tanking the hardest content in the game and doing fine.

 

PvP is another matter, but to be honest the better tanking tree in PvP is vigilance hybrid spec. The defense tree needs some work to be viable in PvP imo.

4. The way we create mana ( focus, force bar) is unique in that we can create our own focus by just attacking guys instead of waiting for the bar to eiher to cooldown or regen.

This is true, not sure it's really an issue though.

 

5. Honestly, you so called Tankers( Soresu ) "think" your weak. Think again. You guys take forever to kill, its disgusting. And don't get me started on how many defensive CD's you guys have.

Off a bit here, if their cooldowns are up, sure it takes a while. If they are not, I can blow through a 19k hp defense guardian/jugg in about 10-15s as a focus guard. This is why pure defense is a bad choice as they aren't much more than a meat shield. Vigilance/defense guards have the same cooldowns, last just as long if not longer as they have dmg reduction not on cooldowns, and put out more dmg.

 

So to sum it up, for pvp and pve there is 1 spec that is not viable and is only not viable for PvP, the full defense guard. Once dual spec comes out, there should be no issue whatsoever.

 

For all of you saying your not level 50 you have no clue about the class, I'm saying to you it's even more sad that you are level 50 and have no clue about the class.

 

I want to be a tank. I chose the Defense tree almost exclusively so I can tank. Holding aggro as a Defense tank is nearly impossible from even a remotely geared DPS. Hell, keeping aggro off of Doc when solo is a pain in the arse.

 

If you picked a Guardian to be a DPS giant as your post would seem to indicate then you picked the wrong class. Can it be made to DPS well - it certainly can - but it isn't even on the same spectrum with a class that was built with DPS as their focus.

 

So, tell me, how exactly is the class 'perfectly fine' when it can't effectively fill the role that it was built for (tanking)?

[GarfieldJL]

I want to be a tank. I chose the Defense tree almost exclusively so I can tank. Holding aggro as a Defense tank is nearly impossible from even a remotely geared DPS. Hell, keeping aggro off of Doc when solo is a pain in the arse.

 

If you picked a Guardian to be a DPS giant as your post would seem to indicate then you picked the wrong class. Can it be made to DPS well - it certainly can - but it isn't even on the same spectrum with a class that was built with DPS as their focus.

 

So, tell me, how exactly is the class 'perfectly fine' when it can't effectively fill the role that it was built for (tanking)?

 

Speaking as a DPS Guardian, the threat issue where we just don't generate much threat is actually rather nice, cause the critters generally ignore us.

[Aerion]

I want to be a tank. I chose the Defense tree almost exclusively so I can tank. Holding aggro as a Defense tank is nearly impossible from even a remotely geared DPS. Hell, keeping aggro off of Doc when solo is a pain in the arse.

 

If you picked a Guardian to be a DPS giant as your post would seem to indicate then you picked the wrong class. Can it be made to DPS well - it certainly can - but it isn't even on the same spectrum with a class that was built with DPS as their focus.

 

So, tell me, how exactly is the class 'perfectly fine' when it can't effectively fill the role that it was built for (tanking)?

 

I have to diagree with that, not with the tanking part, since I haven't tanked any Hard Modes or Operations yet I can't really talk about that, but with the DPS part; if you pick a Advanced Class that is listed as DPS and you spec into one of its DPS trees than you have every right to expect it to perform just as well as any other DPS class/spec.

[Mikster_]

If you guys are having so much trouble keeping threat why don't you guys use the supposedly great hybrid build of def/vig?

[Aerion]

Why should they? Shouldn't a full tank build be better at tanking than a tank/DPS hybrid build? Edited February 24, 2012 by Aerion

[Mikster_]

Just by looking at the def spec I can only see a few abilities which increase the Guardians tankyness. While in Vig, there are a lot more, unremitting... def spec doesn't necessarily mean that all the abilities in the tree have to be related to ONLY defense, but also to increasing dps, and other goodies. It just turns out that the Vig spec has a lot of abilities which def Guardians seem to like.

[Aerion]

Of course there is no need for every talent in the Defense tree to be defensive, I never said that, but if a tank/DPS hybrid spec is better at tanking than a pure tank spec, like you suggest, then something is wrong.

Just like a DPS spec should make you a DPS and not a Offtank like some people in this thread seem to think.

Edited February 24, 2012 by Aerion

[Mikster_]

Ok, finely someone who is able to convince me in some front. Although I don't play as a tank, I can no longer comment on the guardians effectiveness as a tank but for a dps guardian do we agree that they are fine?

[Derian]

Sorry mate, i dont think you know what youre saying...

 

Im a Guardian tank vlv 50 and i got owned everytime on 1vs1, and i get owned in less than 10 sec flat in PVP!!!!! Our class is so underpowered, and i advice to anyone who wants to build a char in this class, dont!!!!!

Its story its amazing, PVE its great. But PVP, its a joke.... done alot of WZ do know that the republic char in general suck in PVP, speacially ours.

 

Avoid being a Guardian if you're thinking PVP, go sentinel and than shadow

If youre thinking PVE, its great!

 

If you suck at PVP with a Guardian, you will suck even worse with a Sentinel. Bad is bad. OP is getgting bashed for being level 27 but of course he's right. I see Guards/Juggs do 400k+ damage in a VS all the time.

Edited February 24, 2012 by Derian

[Mikster_]

If you suck at PVP with a Guardian, you will suck even worse with a Sentinel. Bad is bad. OP is getgting bashed for being level 27 but of course he's right. I see Guards/Juggs do 400k+ damage in a VS all the time.

 

I love it when I started this forum how all the trolls will come first and do there ... and then the real people who play the game like men( women to ) will come back and save my ***.

[Derian]

I love it when I started this forum how all the trolls will come first and do there ... and then the real people who play the game like men( women to ) will come back and save my ***.

 

People don't do well with Guardian because they are bad at the game. Melee takes some learning, but in the end you are viable as anything else.It's all about the player. However if they can't manage to do well with Guardian, there is no way in hell they can manage all the skills a Sentinel has to deal with.

[Mikster_]

People don't do well with Guardian because they are bad at the game. Melee takes some learning, but in the end you are viable as anything else.It's all about the player. However if they can't manage to do well with Guardian, there is no way in hell they can manage all the skills a Sentinel has to deal with.

 

I have a lvl 20 Mara and i LOVE it. All the abilities, the dots, cool animations. Man i don't now why they get ripped on so much either.

[Aerion]

Ok, finely someone who is able to convince me in some front. Although I don't play as a tank, I can no longer comment on the guardians effectiveness as a tank but for a dps guardian do we agree that they are fine?

 

It depends how you define "fine", Knights as a whole are not necessarily weaker than other classes, but they are harder to play and can't perform well in situation that don't necessarily give other classes problems, so their effectiv performance is lagging.

[Mikster_]

I guess I should of name this thread, like the other guys, " why are you guys so BAD" lol

[Airsucker]

As a 50 guardian in vigilance spec i have zero issues fighting in pvp, be it 1v1 or team on team. that cooldown aoe taunt in pvp is fantastic if you join the fight late, it gives your whole team and advantage. i hit hard, i can take a serious beating, i have a blast. i end most warzones with between 7-10 medals and loads of damage and kills. so anyone saying that guardian/juggernaut sucks in pvp, try the middle tree or the third tree if your current tree is the tank tree if you want more kills and such, you will see a huge difference. a tank tree guardian/juggernaut should mainly be putting guard on a dps and rolling with a healer to fix up that damage you take from the guard. you shouldnt exactly be trying to faceroll people. tank tree will never hit as hard as 2nd or 3rd trees. also, if you hit 50 and join a warzone with no pvp gear, no duh your going to get stomped. i suffered that for a while, then i got full champ and there are no more issues. as for the OP. you CANNOT judge a class at such a low level. you have to at least get to 40 for the final skill tree ability, preferrably 50 for the works. for example i cant say my 21 trooper is crappy as commando dps cuz he doesnt have enough of his class and skill tree abilities to make full use of everything. sure stuff is powerful but its incomplete.

[bwookie]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7SIox20Tk5k&feature=channel

 

Take a look at this dps guardian almost dying compared to the rest of his team in the solo challenge in EV.

 

I also have an operative and trooper and the same fight dps is trivial by comparison.