Hybrid Sorcerer/Sage Utility is OP in PvP

[Orangerascal]

People do a lot more than 30% unmitigated damage. In my calculations I was being overly generous so that responses like yours wouldn't criticize me for biased calculations. If anything you're the one being biased claiming that you only have ONE DoT that is internal damage when in fact Death Field, Crushing Darkness(your highest DPCT ability), and Affliction are all internal. Even a hybrid spec Sorcerer's damage will have a large portion unmitigated.

 

Your calculations involved no DPS rotations or nothing to statistically back it up. It could very well have been %5, 10%, 60% or 90%, but you chose a number that backed up your argument. Hence why it's a fallacy

Edited February 23, 2012 by Orangerascal

[Tumri]

Your calculations involved no DPS rotations or nothing to statistically back it up. It could very well have been %5, 10%, 60% or 90%, but you chose a number that backed up your argument. Hence why it's a fallacy

 

OK. Deadly Saber + Rupture. Maybe I get 2-3 real melee attacks in between. I repeat this till I kill you. 80% of my damage was internal.

 

That's a number that's twisted to back my argument.

 

Claiming situational changes in someone's rotation in your argument's favor is a bit stupid when I could just as easily do the same but with more success considering armor ignoring damage is typically on a CD. In a situation against a kiter anyone will be using their longer CD armor ignoring abilities more.

 

Your refusal to accept the fact that literally every common spec has at least 30% unmitigated damage is just stubbornness when in fact that's the absolute most generous unmitigated damage value I could use. I could have easily claimed Marauders do most of their damage through DoTs when against Sorcerers. I could have even more easily claimed that Arsenal spec Mercs have 55% armor penetration and therefore used a 55% unmitigated damage value.

Edited February 23, 2012 by Tumri

[bantros]

They only nerf classes that are hardly played unfortunately

[Gremlis]

it basically comes down to the fact that most of the devs liked imp\. Before any thing gets done most will be BM and its to late for even PVP

[agentbam]

Animation times between a Sorc and Sage need to be addressed! Sage has 0.8 lag from project than the instance cast on a Sorc. TK Wave isn't working properly for the Sage at all with all three points in it. http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=124285 Bioware still isn't addressing the problem.

 

When these issues get fixed then everyone in this thread can talk!

[paladinjb]

If a game with balanced PvP is the goal, then any class that is above average is overpowered. With the amount of utility the OP mentioned, I find it hard to believe that anyone can say with a straight face that sorcs/sages are not above average.

 

There may be other classes that deserve a nerf, and there may be other classes that deserve buffs. The object is for things to be even. If you just let sorcs/sages keep everything they have as far as utility goes, then you are setting the bar to ridiculous levels for all the underpowered classes to be buffed to.

 

Every spec doesn't have to perform well, but each class should have a few top specs that perform similarly to the other classes top specs. That's not the case right now, and balancing needs to be done. PvP balance is key to the success of any game that wants to keep a PvP oriented player base.

 

PS: Just because another class is OP, that doesn't justify a different class into being OP as well. Two wrongs don't make a right.

[agentbam]

I think OP hasn't done enough homework! Edited February 24, 2012 by agentbam

[oblongship]

I think OP hasn't done enough homework!

 

Agreed...

[Guioki]

People do a lot more than 30% unmitigated damage. In my calculations I was being overly generous so that responses like yours wouldn't criticize me for biased calculations. If anything you're the one being biased claiming that you only have ONE DoT that is internal damage when in fact Death Field, Crushing Darkness(your highest DPCT ability), and Affliction are all internal. Even a hybrid spec Sorcerer's damage will have a large portion unmitigated.

 

Cool story bro...

 

Cant wait to cast my internal damage Crushing Darkness on you.

[GrandMike]

If a game with balanced PvP is the goal, then any class that is above average is overpowered. With the amount of utility the OP mentioned, I find it hard to believe that anyone can say with a straight face that sorcs/sages are not above average.

 

There may be other classes that deserve a nerf, and there may be other classes that deserve buffs. The object is for things to be even. If you just let sorcs/sages keep everything they have as far as utility goes, then you are setting the bar to ridiculous levels for all the underpowered classes to be buffed to.

 

Every spec doesn't have to perform well, but each class should have a few top specs that perform similarly to the other classes top specs. That's not the case right now, and balancing needs to be done. PvP balance is key to the success of any game that wants to keep a PvP oriented player base.

 

PS: Just because another class is OP, that doesn't justify a different class into being OP as well. Two wrongs don't make a right.

 

Then you should nerf >half of the classes. And definately NOT start with sorc/sage.

 

They only nerf classes that are hardly played unfortunately

 

Ooooh, yes, they nerf classes that actually need nerfing, what a "out of their mind" idea!

 

What, you used that if you whine enough it will get nerfed lol

Edited February 24, 2012 by GrandMike

[Telaan]

Bump for PvP balance.

 

Why necro this thread? As with every other "NERF SORC/SAGE CUZ I DIED BROHA", this thread is filled with exaggerated, false, uninformed, and anecdotal posts by people who died in PvP and whose consciences require justice.

 

Additionally, bumping threads is against forum rules.

[Wheldrake]

This guy seems to have written a post tha comprises several different sorc's that probably pwnd him at one time or another. We dont get all of those abilities. AND a hybrid is severly hampered in 1v1 combat why not just go over and smash his face in.

[GrandMike]

This guy seems to have written a post tha comprises several different sorc's that probably pwnd him at one time or another. We dont get all of those abilities. AND a hybrid is severly hampered in 1v1 combat why not just go over and smash his face in.

 

Yah, most of the talk is about OP 31/31/31 build that has all internal damage:D

Edited February 24, 2012 by GrandMike

[Aidank]

This guy seems to have written a post tha comprises several different sorc's that probably pwnd him at one time or another. We dont get all of those abilities. AND a hybrid is severly hampered in 1v1 combat why not just go over and smash his face in.

 

No, if you bothered to actually read the post, everything he's mentioned is obtainable by 20/21 and other similar hybrids.

[Tumri]

Yah, most of the talk is about OP 31/31/31 build that has all internal damage:D

 

You're exaggerating STILL.

 

You're ignoring my responses to your "31/31/31" argument STILL.

[Wharf-Rat]

I think the OP should roll a sorc. Then he will come back here crying that Mara's need nerf cause they are melee with a way to close the gap, dot cc, and a ranged ability.

 

it's really sad when somebody cries about a class being imba and they don't see that every class is imba to other classes one way or the other. The one point i will agree with... The devs and bioware did a poor job in actual game design FOR PVP but that's y they have teams in warzones.

[Nerqo]

Just gonna say one thing bro u got owned and u qq me a river hehe pls ruther focus your time on getting some skill so u can kill sorceres like most mor do

[Aidank]

Why necro this thread? As with every other "NERF SORC/SAGE CUZ I DIED BROHA", this thread is filled with exaggerated, false, uninformed, and anecdotal posts by people who died in PvP and whose consciences require justice.

 

Additionally, bumping threads is against forum rules.

 

Yep, except 90% of it is from sorcerers who don't want to get nerfed.

[Relith]

I cant believe mods are closing all threads regarding sorc and redirecting people to this one. I've had some discussions with the OP, and he is clearly an idiot of the highest order. He couldn't figure out the basic mechanics and calculations for static barrier, heals, and all sorts of things. Numbers are just made up on the spot, and no one from his guild for some reason takes pity on his incompetence and tries to explain matters to him. Soon as you keep showing him how wrong he is, he disappears from that thread for a day or two and acts like it never happened, and continues to spout the same garbage in another thread.

 

Nerfing sorcs or buffing other healer classes may or may not be a valid discussion. I for one think it is, as I rerolled as a sorc because merc as a healer seemed weaker. After experiencing both classes fully, I've walked that statement in a bit. Sorc is a better healer, but not as much as I had originally thought. I'd say the two classes as healers are close enough as to be acceptably balanced(for now, until other higher priority issues are fixed). Operative on the otherhand, isnt even close.

 

 

When the game first came out all i heard was nerf mercenary crying. Now that people have learned to play, the mercenary crying has decreased substantially, and the sorc crying has definitely curbed considerably. Next on the list of #1 whines is going to be marauder and you can mark my words it will stay that way until some sort of nerfing occurs (if ever). Unlike the others, there is no simple "learn to play" counter to use against them besides the common sense teamwork/get heals/focus fire mantra.

 

This whining mouthbreather OP might as well start himself a new thread on getting marauders nerfed in order to be ahead of the game. Time to prepare some other outlandish statements like "I got hit for 15000 by a marauder doing ravage. And to hell with any sort of mathematic calculations and tests that prove otherwise!"

Edited February 29, 2012 by Relith

[xakto]

If the effort that goes into these posts crying for an "easy win" button against x class were applied to learning to play then you might actually not be such a bad.

 

Are any of you tissue soakers willing to accept the possibility that you could be doing something wrong? Have you really tried to tweak your talent points to fight that sorc/sage you hate so much? Have you watched others fight them? Try to duel a friendly sorc/sage of equal gear until you figure out what you should be doing. Ask others of your AC what they do against sorc/sages.

 

Ultimately you have to accept something.. there is ALWASY someone better than you regardless of gear, regardless of class, get over it and get better.

[TDRedmage]

 

9. A 60s(45 if talented) 2s cast(instant if talented with "Haunted Dreams") CD single target Mezz. [Whirlwind]

 

10. A 2s duration stun if the above Mezz is broken by damage. [Talent: Haunted Dreams]

 

 

This part made me lol.

 

A CC in case a CC gets broken. How is this not OP?

[Jahor]

This part made me lol.

 

A CC in case a CC gets broken. How is this not OP?

 

Even more when you consider, that anti-CC has a 2 min cooldown. You WAST your 'get free' just to be instant CCed WITHOUT recast from the Sorc/Sage. And if by excident you realy can move ... they just use one of the other 20 CCs they have to stop you again.

 

In fact Sorc/Sage are unkilleble if they pay some attantion:jawa_mad:

[skarlson]

There is this thing called resolve which will stop that depending on the cc type. You will not be able to resolve your way out of snares or roots. However, mezz and stuns are another story. If you are stunned then wwd you are not immune to any cc. Save your break for the ww if you are stunned then you are immune to stun/mezz from anyone. If you get ww first and break it you may be immune to cc entirely as it does give you at least nearly full resolve. I have never tested this one myself as I usually stun first in the hopes my target will break it so I can use ww on them. Edited March 1, 2012 by skarlson

[Aidank]

There is this thing called resolve which will stop that depending on the cc type. You will not be able to resolve your way out of snares or roots. However, mezz and stuns are another story. If you are stunned then wwd you are not immune to any cc. Save your break for the ww if you are stunned then you are immune to stun/mezz from anyone. If you get ww first and break it you may be immune to cc entirely as it does give you at least nearly full resolve. I have never tested this one myself as I usually stun first in the hopes my target will break it so I can use ww on them.

 

Or you could wait what is it, 15 seconds or so until their resolve is gone?

[Elkirus]

I just dont get why people always ask for the other class to be nerfed, instead of asking for the class they like to be buffed or get more efficient.

I guess some man just want to watch the world burn... x'D

Why dont you start with the premise that sages/sorcs are fine and you need to get buffed.

 

What do you think can fix the problem buffing your class without having sad players on the next patch notes?

 

In every mmo the ranged dps seem to get burned out in forums by the melee players, even though melee players always get more damage to compensate the time theyr being kited or los.

 

Do you want more stuns? Do you want more defensive skills to prevent from getting CCd? Just try to look at it this way!!

 

I play a sage miself and im happy with it, try to fix the problem without ruining the game for someone else and you might have more people to back you up.