EthicsGradient Posted February 20, 2012 Share Posted February 20, 2012 Anyways, potent medicine just reads as "adds some surge" to me. When i played around with it, about three weeks ago, PM and surge were quite equivalent. By now it would be interesting, if the crit-heal bonus of PM is applied seperately to surge, or if it's added up and then processed. (Which means, if PM is affected by DM or not. ) If it's calculated seperately, then PM definitely gained some value, but i yet have to see some numbercrunching results pointing one way or another and even then i guess i'd only put 4 points into it, so i can at least keep concussive force. Skill bonuses to crit chance and crit amount (surge) etc. work outside the diminishing returns mechanism that gear ratings have. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brewthor Posted February 20, 2012 Share Posted February 20, 2012 (edited) This is a nice viable spec. I think some of the hostility is due to the title. It's NOT full DPS and full heal, but it's a nice hybrid spec. OP, full auto was bugged and often didn't give the 3rd tick but they've fixed that last patch and it's nice damage and a useful snare. Giving up full auto and demo round hurts. Doesn't mean your spec is bad but if you haven't tried FA lately its worth a look. Edited February 20, 2012 by Brewthor Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rainsfords Posted February 20, 2012 Share Posted February 20, 2012 I like the critical post that says "this is the hybrid spec that's been around forever" followed by "lol it's so dumb". I'll let the irony sink in. After running with it some more, I've come to the conclusion that it's awesome. For the record, in an Op/Hm, you're going to be taking a healer slot, NOT a DD slot (you're obviously putting out less sustained than a pure-DD). The thing is that, even if you're in a DPS slot with the spec, you're still doing Scoundrel/Operative level damage while keeping the boss debuffed and having the ability to act as a proper healer if you need to. Every Op can be solo-healed by a competent sorc/sage with only occasional help being needed. Having two people dedicated to healing is pointless. In PvP, you can easily be the most valuable member on a team. If an enemy is being focused, you're going to have the same contribution a full DD will have (2-3 grav rounds/HiP before the target dies) while having full heal functionality outside of Bacta (which, as was said, is just an instant cast probe that's virtually the same amount of GCDs). And when it comes to most targets, combat support is superior to armor-pierce. Coming off an Operative, I know how relatively useless armor pen is on low-armor classes in PvP (the Acid Blade nerf was pretty unnoticeable on soft targets). The crit chance, extra defense/damage and "burst" potential of Combat Support is better. Sure, the title is a little misleading, but outside of some type of organized 4v4 arena PvP or a PvE situation where you already have a healer/offhealer, this is the best set up to run with as a Commando. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kutalion Posted February 21, 2012 Share Posted February 21, 2012 (edited) Do you think anyone is going to take YOUR immature, insulting rambling seriously? On the contrary, I advise YOU to stop posting. Given your writing skills, I bet you're not old enough to be playing the game anyway. And what's with the combative attitude? My writing skills are fine, thanks. Why should i be mature to Columbus who pretends he discovered America (and did it a bit poorly even)? I have zero tolerance for people who give stupid advice. I like the critical post that says "this is the hybrid spec that's been around forever" followed by "lol it's so dumb". I'll let the irony sink in. The idea of the spec is old, he missed some talents in it. I didnt say the spec was dumb. I said you cant be a viable dps in this spec, its far from full spec. I said his stat priorities were flawed. 1) That spec is the typical hybrid spec that was used for ages. Congrats on rediscovering America, Columbus. 1.5) Jesus, just saw you have no interrupt/pushback immunity on shield. HAHA All i said about the spec itself, talent wise. Edited February 21, 2012 by Kutalion Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sylow Posted February 21, 2012 Share Posted February 21, 2012 (edited) Skill bonuses to crit chance and crit amount (surge) etc. work outside the diminishing returns mechanism that gear ratings have. Do you have any source / evidence for that? I'd be interested in reading that. Without backing it up, your statement is an educated guess, but not good enough for a final conclusion. (Sorry for my scepticism, but i've been through several games and saw things work both ways already. ) Thus, if there's a reliable source, it would save me the trouble to testing myself. (Which i find cumbersome, since there is no combat log to just grab, parse and evaluate. ) Edited February 21, 2012 by Sylow Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
germil Posted February 21, 2012 Share Posted February 21, 2012 You just need to look in you character stats. You can see that for example the crit chance is the sum of a flat amount due to bonus and talents (not affected by d.r.), an amount due to crit rating (affected by d.r.) and an amount due to aim (not sure if affected bye d.r. or not). Each member if this sum is independent of others (you can play with the scoundrel +5% crit buff, which is a straigth 5%, whatever the amount of crit rating / aim you have. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EthicsGradient Posted February 21, 2012 Share Posted February 21, 2012 Do you have any source / evidence for that? I'd be interested in reading that. Without backing it up, your statement is an educated guess, but not good enough for a final conclusion. (Sorry for my scepticism, but i've been through several games and saw things work both ways already. ) Thus, if there's a reliable source, it would save me the trouble to testing myself. (Which i find cumbersome, since there is no combat log to just grab, parse and evaluate. ) As the above poster said, ingame stat tooltips. Skepticsism is fine as long as you can pay attention and think. Otherwise it's just laziness. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
monimoni Posted February 21, 2012 Share Posted February 21, 2012 (edited) My writing skills are fine, thanks. Why should i be mature to Columbus who pretends he discovered America (and did it a bit poorly even)? Don't presume you get the right to have a conversation now, while being a narcissist. Nobody cares about your frayed nerved endings and anger management issues. Edited February 21, 2012 by monimoni Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tataki Posted February 21, 2012 Share Posted February 21, 2012 Interesting spec. I posted a thread a while back about the viability of the top end of gunnery. My question was more in the pure DPS direction, but it's good to see other folks exploring the hybrid road. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HileyQuiggley Posted February 21, 2012 Share Posted February 21, 2012 The spec is fine but I would never run it due to lack of Ammo. In a 1v1 or 2v2 it might work but a longer fight and you wont have any impact after a very short period of time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paydroid Posted February 21, 2012 Share Posted February 21, 2012 The spec is fine but I would never run it due to lack of Ammo. In a 1v1 or 2v2 it might work but a longer fight and you wont have any impact after a very short period of time. Presumably that's the only idea though, right? This is basically a combat medic who sacrifices Bacta Infusion and some heal crit bonus for the ability to throw out some burst from time to time with Grav Round. The only question is whether the loss of the top of the healing tree holds you back much... it's obvious that the gunnery talents are giving a solid benefit. I wish I knew the answer, but nobody responded to me. =( Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rainsfords Posted February 21, 2012 Share Posted February 21, 2012 Presumably that's the only idea though, right? This is basically a combat medic who sacrifices Bacta Infusion and some heal crit bonus for the ability to throw out some burst from time to time with Grav Round. The only question is whether the loss of the top of the healing tree holds you back much... it's obvious that the gunnery talents are giving a solid benefit. I wish I knew the answer, but nobody responded to me. =( The only skill you need to lose is Bacta Infusion. The stockstrike knockback isn't useful in this spec and the extra range on your aoe knockback is less important than the +surge on heals from medic. The +grav vortex is also lackluster. I posted a better alternative spec on the first page about half-way down that improves healing pretty significantly without sacrificing any damage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Secured Posted February 21, 2012 Author Share Posted February 21, 2012 (edited) This is a nice viable spec. I think some of the hostility is due to the title. It's NOT full DPS and full heal, but it's a nice hybrid spec. OP, full auto was bugged and often didn't give the 3rd tick but they've fixed that last patch and it's nice damage and a useful snare. Giving up full auto and demo round hurts. Doesn't mean your spec is bad but if you haven't tried FA lately its worth a look. i have tried it and it really does work now. so i have to say that its a skill worth using. i'm not sure if its wort spending the skill points on. but i'll test it some more. and as some already said: its obvious that i loose some damage compared to a full dd and that i loose some heal compared to a full heal spec. but the trade-off is worth it. unlike in most other games, you wont feel like someone who can do anything, but nothing good. you will do good damage and you will heal very nice aswell. i also have to say that you really are a healer with dd qualities (not the other way round) and you should focus more on healing and just spike the called targets. thats also why i am currently farming my battlemaster healing gear. Edited February 21, 2012 by Secured Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paydroid Posted February 22, 2012 Share Posted February 22, 2012 The only skill you need to lose is Bacta Infusion. The stockstrike knockback isn't useful in this spec and the extra range on your aoe knockback is less important than the +surge on heals from medic. The +grav vortex is also lackluster. I posted a better alternative spec on the first page about half-way down that improves healing pretty significantly without sacrificing any damage. I can understand how Gravity Surge might not be all that useful, but I don't get why the other two talents are worth that bit of surge. Knockbacks are awesome in PvP, having an extra one and strengthening the one you have seems like a real difference-maker in Huttball and sometimes Voidstar (plus the more general benefit of interrupting). I REALLY don't understand how Charged Barrier wouldn't be helpful... flat mitigation is very rare in this game, and getting it just for using your best damage skill sure seems like it would be a big deal. With a 15 second effect, it seems like throwing out an occasional Grav Round (which you are probably doing anyway with this spec) could keep your 10% mitigation going indefinitely. Again, I don't have experience with what this build is like at 50, so I obviously am not speaking from authority... but Potent Medicine seems like a pretty lackluster benefit for dropping five talent points. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
_Flin_ Posted February 22, 2012 Share Posted February 22, 2012 I think I have to try this buil, since i am getting bored on my pure combat medic. One thing I will definitely change. Exchange the rather useless alacrity buff on crit with the invaluable interruptprotection. Which is THE best pvp skill for the combat medic. Otherwise you cant do the strongest move of all medic moves. Break 2. Stun, gain stun immunity. Pop bubble, gain complete freedom. Which for me usually means amp, mp,mp, bi => full health. Not being interruptable is just priceless in pvp. Every player who knows how to run straight will try to interrupt the Medical Probe. Which hurts this build even more than the standard medic with BI. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Secured Posted February 23, 2012 Author Share Posted February 23, 2012 http://knotor.com/skills#AgkZEABBSlFZanOBipGZoqqx0ttxgpGjqbG6ytsA i have updated the build with some testing and the help of some suggestions of you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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