Will we ever see these things in an MMO again.

[Kekdruid]

First let me say that I have been playing MMOs for about 10 years but my experience is limited to SWG, that “other game”, and TOR so if some of the things on the list were copied from previous games I am not aware of them. This thread isn’t a walk down memory lane or an attempt to revamp TOR. It is just a list of a few things I loved about those other games and I think would have made TOR better. If you don’t agree then tell me why you didn’t like these things in a constructive way.

 

1. The Skill Point System from SWG BEFORE the combat revamp and Jedi ruined the game completely. I loved being able to create a character and know that I could do anything I wanted to with my skill points. To me it felt like my character was actually alive and had choices. If I was a crafter and decided that I wanted to reinvent myself I could drop the skills I didn’t want anymore, head out into the wilderness and be a Scout there was nothing to stop me.

 

2. The way SWG awarded XP. SWG awarded XP for using a skill. If I wanted to use a Blaster Pistol I trained the initial skill then went out and killed something with a blaster pistol. I earned XP for Blaster Pistols and opened up new abilities with a Blaster pistol. This made the game feel more “real”. If I want to learn how to shoot a .45 pistol I go out and buy one, have someone show me how it operates, head to a range and start shooting. The more I shoot my pistol the more proficient I become with it. It doesn’t matter if I am a Doctor, Car Salesman, or Policeman I still get better at using a pistol because I practiced with it and it was the same for all for the skill trees.

 

 

3. The way the world was set up in WoW and to a lesser extent SWG. Now I’ll start by saying that the worlds in SWG at launch were way too big before mounts were introduced. I can remember pointing my character at a way point for a quest, setting my auto run, and going out to smoke a cigarette. What I did like about both games was that you actually felt like you were in a world and not just running on a treadmill. You could get off the beaten path and actually explore.

 

4. The faction system in SWG. You created your character and then chose who you wanted to side with. If you didn’t want to side with either faction you remained neutral. There were actually cool rewards for joining a faction and participating in the Civil war (although some of them were a little OP and unbelievable at times like the walker pet for Empire.). If you chose to swap sides then you could leave your faction and work at rebuilding your reputation with the other.

 

 

5. The Crafting System in SWG. By using experimentation points weapons and armor became unique. It gave crafting a purpose again and gave the game an actual economy (before the Jedi rush). I can remember saving my credits for weeks then hunting for that elite weapon or armor smith to buy a superior set of composite armor or blaster because they made the best ones around.

 

6. Player Housing and Guild Halls. I know it might seem a little childish and “SIMS” like but I loved having a place to call my own. I could decorate it how I wanted to, store my armor and weapons there. Guild Halls gave guilds a sense of family for lack of a better word instead of them just feeling like a second friends list and premium LFG channel.

Edited February 19, 2012 by Kekdruid

[Onyx]

We knew clear back in 2008 that TOR wasn't going to be a sandbox game, nor have many of the things we loved in SWG. It is theme-park, like most main-stream MMOs are today.

 

The two games are completely different and adding them half-baked to TOR isn't going to change the fact that this is a theme-park game or, to state it a different way, a game on rails. Redesigning the game isn't really a feasible option, and to implement the better parts of SWG that is what would need to happen.

 

Anyone who knows me knows how huge an advocate of SWG I am. TOR will not ever be "SWG 2". It's certainly likely that another game will implement those lost mechanics, but it is not likely to be set in the Star Wars universe. The question then becomes, will you play it even if it is not Star Wars?

[Mojodamm]

I loved SWG for all the things you mentioned, but apples =/= oranges.

[Riptorious]

EVE already has everything you are talking about and then some. Sadly i dont think this game will get too much off the beaten path. Still having fun with it for now though!

I personally miss the 3 realm RVR action of DAOC as far as pvp goes, but that is probably another subject.

[tNok]

Probably will not see these things again in a major title.

 

400,000 subscribers is now a pitiful failure - you need to have millions of subs to be a 'successful' MMO now. And to be honest, I think most people prefer to have their hands held through a game rather than be forced to sit down and figure things out for themselves. That's not really a problem, it's a game. People will play what they find fun.

[Mojodamm]

EVE already has everything you are talking about and then some. Sadly i dont think this game will get too much off the beaten path. Still having fun with it for now though!

I personally miss the 3 realm RVR action of DAOC as far as pvp goes, but that is probably another subject.

 

I wholeheartedly agree with everything about this post.

[Genkin]

SWG was a vast failure economically and game play wise. Regardless of what a few people with the rose color glass say. The vast majority of gamers that tried SWG didn't sub into it.

 

The facts are that no gaming company is going to retry the SWG game, as the first was a massive flop by industry standards.

Edited February 19, 2012 by Genkin

[Kekdruid]

I don't have any huge issues with TOR since I am a fan of BioWare's style of game design. In fact I am enjoying it about as much as I did ME, ME2, and DA.

 

Is it my preferred style for an MMO? Not really. I guess the question I have to ask myself is will I continue to pay $15 a month once I hit 50 and the story is done? I'll have to answer that when the time comes.

 

I do believe that BioWare would have been more successful with an MMO had they made TOR more like SWG than the KOTOR game.

 

To answer your last question: Yes. When I found out that BioWare was going to make an MMO I was going to try it no matter what the theme was.

[Bloodtau]

EVE already has everything you are talking about and then some. Sadly i dont think this game will get too much off the beaten path. Still having fun with it for now though!

I personally miss the 3 realm RVR action of DAOC as far as pvp goes, but that is probably another subject.

 

3 way pvp? check out guild wars 2 wvw system.

[Kekdruid]

EVE already has everything you are talking about and then some. Sadly i dont think this game will get too much off the beaten path. Still having fun with it for now though!

I personally miss the 3 realm RVR action of DAOC as far as pvp goes, but that is probably another subject.

 

I played EVE for about a year (forgot to mention that one). I liked the game and liked the need to actually think in order to play. It was definitely an adult’s game. The only real issue I had with it was the difficulty when trying to lessen the gap between a new player and a vet. In every other MMO a new player knows that in a reasonable time and with enough effort he / she will be able to compete with a veteran. In EvE it literally takes years. I am not saying that I think the system they have in place is wrong I just didn't feel like playing 6 more months to begin feeling like I stood a chance.

[Mojodamm]

SWG was a vast failure economically and game play wise. Regardless of what a few people with the rose color glass say. The vast majority of gamers that tried SWG didn't sub into it.

 

The facts are that no gaming company is going to retry the SWG game, as the first was a massive flop by industry standards.

 

At one point it was the second largest MMO in NA; it was the huge loss of subs due to the NGE that crushed the game. Remember, industry standards have changed a LOT since 2003, and 1mil+ units of a computer game sold 8 years ago was a big deal for anything but the larger Asian MMOs.

[Riptorious]

3 way pvp? check out guild wars 2 wvw system.

 

OH HELL YA!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

http://www.mmorpg.com/gamelist.cfm/game/473/feature/6105/Guild-Wars-2-World-vs-World-A-Dream-Come-True.html

 

I just hope they dont bone it up like they did with WAR

[Riptorious]

I played EVE for about a year (forgot to mention that one). I liked the game and liked the need to actually think in order to play. It was definitely an adult’s game. The only real issue I had with it was the difficulty when trying to lessen the gap between a new player and a vet. In every other MMO a new player knows that in a reasonable time and with enough effort he / she will be able to compete with a veteran. In EvE it literally takes years. I am not saying that I think the system they have in place is wrong I just didn't feel like playing 6 more months to begin feeling like I stood a chance.

 

Ya, EVE is definitely the ulitmate sandbox. I must have been running with a cool Corp, because I could always be useful in most ways doing whatever. I liked how you could train skills offline as well.

[Genkin]

At one point it was the second largest MMO in NA; it was the huge loss of subs due to the NGE that crushed the game. Remember, industry standards have changed a LOT since 2003, and 1mil+ units of a computer game sold 8 years ago was a big deal for anything but the larger Asian MMOs.

It was never the second anything. It was almost dead last and last for the entire length of it's life. The box sales to sub conversion were are are the worst for an MMO to date. SWG only hit 300k subs once and fell below that fast and that was far away from the leaders at that time( EQ and Final Fantasy XI). And don't blame it's death on NGE. The game was in it's decline long before which caused the Devs to so drastically change it to try and save it. There was a dev interview in which he clearly states that SWG in it's released form was dying with a huge subscription bleed. Edited February 19, 2012 by Genkin

[wifeaggro]

Probably will not see these things again in a major title.

 

400,000 subscribers is now a pitiful failure - you need to have millions of subs to be a 'successful' MMO now. And to be honest, I think most people prefer to have their hands held through a game rather than be forced to sit down and figure things out for themselves. That's not really a problem, it's a game. People will play what they find fun.

 

Huh are you friggin high? MMO's stay profitable till about 150 k subs. then they go F2P and open an item shop and make more money. Dont know where you got your info from but its well understood Even tor with its 200 million dollar price tag will be profitable with 500 k subs. games like rift that cost 60 million are making huge profits with 350 to 400k subs.

[PibbyPib]

You can find a lot of those features in some of the smaller, niche MMORPGs right now. I doubt you'll ever see them again in a game with a triple-A development budget, for the same reason summer blockbusters are always the same. The big budgets are always devoted to trying to recreate the last big hit.

[Aleryan]

I wholeheartedly agree with everything about this post.

 

I do too, except that EvE, as far as I know, doesnt have the crafting system SWG had, as resources dont have any stats...but yeah, I love EvE and I think the players there would tell you they enjoy a game that is deep and complex and doesnt just hand out epics for no effort like some 'other' games do.

[tNok]

Huh are you friggin high? MMO's stay profitable till about 150 k subs. then they go F2P and open an item shop and make more money. Dont know where you got your info from but its well understood Even tor with its 200 million dollar price tag will be profitable with 500 k subs. games like rift that cost 60 million are making huge profits with 350 to 400k subs.

 

I'm not calling 400k a failure, I think that's a ton of people to play with. It just seems like that since WoW came around, anything that isn't measuring in the millions is often dismissed by media and many players as a failure.

 

Hell, I'd be happy in an MMO with a thousand players, if they were active and on my server.

[GalacticKegger]

Probably won't ever see SWG again unless someone fires up an emulator like Canadian indies are trying to do for Earth & Beyond.

[Meluna]

Hello, folks! We ask that discussion on the General Discussion forum be centered around Star Wars™: The Old Republic™. Due to this being a discussion of another game's mechanics, we will be closing the thread for being off topic. Thanks!