OMG!!! You mentioned "THAT OTHER GAME"!!! I hope you have a fire suit handy cause the flames are incomming.

I don’t know if this has already been posted because I stopped reading the QQs from both sides on page 9. But here is the way I see it: The “Hard Core” Players do not want cross server LFG tools because then everyone can run every instance as many times as they want. When this happens everyone has access to the same loot tables as your “UBER L33T” super exclusive best on the server raiding guild. Everyone knows the type of guild I’m talking about. They raid 5 nights a week and require an 80% attendance to hold a slot. It burns the “Hard Core” gamers up and takes the “I’m special cause l downed X boss and got Y piece of loot” feeling away from them when they see a player wearing it who isn’t sporting a top 3 on the server guild tag. The only community they are interested in is the one they can look down on as peasants. For this group I’ll say this: Cross server LFG didn’t ruin WoW , badges did. You still had to do 10 and 25 man raids to get tier gear before badges were added . All cross server LFG tools did was make it easier for an ageing community to level and get pre-raid gear for their alts. The Casual players are all for a cross server LFG tool because they can’t / don’t want to spend all of their free time in game. They think that just because they pay the same monthly payment that they should have the “cool stuff” too. They don’t care if that other player they see in top tier gear spends 30+hours a week running with the same group. They aren’t aware that this guy got his gear by running the same instance over and over to get everyone in that group geared just so they will be ready for the next tier of raiding release day. In the end this whole argument is a waste of time because the problem has nothing to do with this game. It will never be solved because people are by nature greedy, selfish and lazy.

Because social points are the only reason to group while leveling. Dev #1: Ok, we are done. What do you think? Tester: It's awesome. As good as ME and DA. Dev #1: Those are not MMOs... Tester: This is a multiplayer game??? Dev #1: Crap.... * Adds social points for grouping with other players and changes cool armor styles to "Points only" gear.*

The problem is that the game is new. People are buying the game just to try it out. There are alot of problems at the moment that may or may not ever be fixed. There isn't really a need to group much less be in a guild if you are not lvl 50 and raiding. With the poor crafting system and the ability of your companions to grind mats for you a guild isn't even needed for crafting support. On top of all that most of the high lvl guilds you see were x-fers from other games and just not recruiting. If you decide to stick it out everything should settle down in a few months and you will see an increase in new lasting guilds. Also when you join a guild, unless the majority of the members are high / max level it probably isn't going to last. Small low level guilds rarely do.

I love people who feel the need to completely lose their minds and napalm something just because the incredibly successful, user friendly, frustration reducing feature they want to see implemented just happened to be in “THAT OTHER GAME” . I guess BioWare should remove XP, talent trees, the trade network, etc. Next they will start referring to everyone who likes the idea as “fan boys” while they leap to the defense of a substandard game wearing their BioWare cape and attempt to beat them over the head with an oversized glow stick.

Awesome post. I was there and this my friends is exactly how it happened. The forums expolded wit thousands of threads just like this. The only thing you forgot to mention... This is about the time WoW started to die.

Can you please explain the math on this one? Last time I looked (about a month ago) WoW still had 10.3 million subs at the same monthly price as TOR. I'm pretty neutral on this whole topic since IMO this is a single player game, but using this type of math kinda kills my faith in all your post.

I love the forums. No matter which post you read there are only two types of people. 1. You have the people who are so in love with TOR / BioWare / Star Wars that they will defend it to the bitter end no matter how bad it is and will still be singing its praises when there isn't a sole in fleet to hear them. 2. You have the people who are bitter and mad because they feel that BioWare took something that could have been great (a Star Wars MMO) and killed it for the second and most likely last time. You could post server populations that were doubling weekly and they would still say the game was failing.

1. The Market Interface. Come on, it’s 2012. My Amazon search page has more options than the Market window. It can’t be that difficult to make searching easier. Call Amazon for pointers if you need to. 2. Crafting System. It is useless at the moment other than to make credits by selling mats to people who haven’t figured out that crafting is useless. 3. Talent system. If you were going to clone another MMO’s system why not pick a better one? People have been complaining about WoW’s talent trees forever. Honorable Mention: People who feel the need to completely lose their minds and napalm someone else because they dare to have an opinion. Just because the incredibly successful, user friendly, frustration reducing feature they would like to see implemented just happened to be in “THAT OTHER GAME” it is automatically a crime against humanity . I love to see these people refer to others as “fan boys” while they leap to the defense of a substandard game wearing their BioWare cape and an oversized light stick in their hand.

At the moment? Yes, but I just finished my class story line and everything is still new. When I hit 50 and the story ends? Don't know yet but from everything I've read no. Do I like it enough to play through again with another charater? No, definetly not.

I played EVE for about a year (forgot to mention that one). I liked the game and liked the need to actually think in order to play. It was definitely an adult’s game. The only real issue I had with it was the difficulty when trying to lessen the gap between a new player and a vet. In every other MMO a new player knows that in a reasonable time and with enough effort he / she will be able to compete with a veteran. In EvE it literally takes years. I am not saying that I think the system they have in place is wrong I just didn't feel like playing 6 more months to begin feeling like I stood a chance.

I don't have any huge issues with TOR since I am a fan of BioWare's style of game design. In fact I am enjoying it about as much as I did ME, ME2, and DA. Is it my preferred style for an MMO? Not really. I guess the question I have to ask myself is will I continue to pay $15 a month once I hit 50 and the story is done? I'll have to answer that when the time comes. I do believe that BioWare would have been more successful with an MMO had they made TOR more like SWG than the KOTOR game. To answer your last question: Yes. When I found out that BioWare was going to make an MMO I was going to try it no matter what the theme was.

First let me say that I have been playing MMOs for about 10 years but my experience is limited to SWG, that “other game”, and TOR so if some of the things on the list were copied from previous games I am not aware of them. This thread isn’t a walk down memory lane or an attempt to revamp TOR. It is just a list of a few things I loved about those other games and I think would have made TOR better. If you don’t agree then tell me why you didn’t like these things in a constructive way. 1. The Skill Point System from SWG BEFORE the combat revamp and Jedi ruined the game completely. I loved being able to create a character and know that I could do anything I wanted to with my skill points. To me it felt like my character was actually alive and had choices. If I was a crafter and decided that I wanted to reinvent myself I could drop the skills I didn’t want anymore, head out into the wilderness and be a Scout there was nothing to stop me. 2. The way SWG awarded XP. SWG awarded XP for using a skill. If I wanted to use a Blaster Pistol I trained the initial skill then went out and killed something with a blaster pistol. I earned XP for Blaster Pistols and opened up new abilities with a Blaster pistol. This made the game feel more “real”. If I want to learn how to shoot a .45 pistol I go out and buy one, have someone show me how it operates, head to a range and start shooting. The more I shoot my pistol the more proficient I become with it. It doesn’t matter if I am a Doctor, Car Salesman, or Policeman I still get better at using a pistol because I practiced with it and it was the same for all for the skill trees. 3. The way the world was set up in WoW and to a lesser extent SWG. Now I’ll start by saying that the worlds in SWG at launch were way too big before mounts were introduced. I can remember pointing my character at a way point for a quest, setting my auto run, and going out to smoke a cigarette. What I did like about both games was that you actually felt like you were in a world and not just running on a treadmill. You could get off the beaten path and actually explore. 4. The faction system in SWG. You created your character and then chose who you wanted to side with. If you didn’t want to side with either faction you remained neutral. There were actually cool rewards for joining a faction and participating in the Civil war (although some of them were a little OP and unbelievable at times like the walker pet for Empire.). If you chose to swap sides then you could leave your faction and work at rebuilding your reputation with the other. 5. The Crafting System in SWG. By using experimentation points weapons and armor became unique. It gave crafting a purpose again and gave the game an actual economy (before the Jedi rush). I can remember saving my credits for weeks then hunting for that elite weapon or armor smith to buy a superior set of composite armor or blaster because they made the best ones around. 6. Player Housing and Guild Halls. I know it might seem a little childish and “SIMS” like but I loved having a place to call my own. I could decorate it how I wanted to, store my armor and weapons there. Guild Halls gave guilds a sense of family for lack of a better word instead of them just feeling like a second friends list and premium LFG channel.