TaintedSquirrel Posted February 17, 2012 Share Posted February 17, 2012 Just did a heroic on Nar Shaddaa with a level 28 Scoundrel who was using cover ~20m, snipe shot, etc. Told him he's a melee class like a rogue and he sort of scoffed at me... "dont tell me how to play" kind of stuff... Very frustrated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Light_Valkyrie Posted February 17, 2012 Share Posted February 17, 2012 Just did a heroic on Nar Shaddaa with a level 28 Scoundrel who was using cover ~20m, snipe shot, etc. Told him he's a melee class like a rogue and he sort of scoffed at me... "dont tell me how to play" kind of stuff... Very frustrated. inb4 "ITS MY 15 DOLLARS" Put on ignore, people are terrible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flyersfan Posted February 17, 2012 Share Posted February 17, 2012 Good for him. I'm glad he told you off for telling him how to play. They can be played as ranged. Maybe he was a Dirty Fighting Scoundrel. Did you ask or did you just assume that was a Scrapper since he wasn't healing? Scoundrels/Operatives still have all the fundamental Smuggler/Agent skills that help them to be ranged. Is it optimal? Of course not, but not everyone gives a flying Force what's optimal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dillingor Posted February 17, 2012 Share Posted February 17, 2012 Only one of their specs is melee actually. Perhaps you ought to learn2play yourself, before trying to tell others to Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TaintedSquirrel Posted February 17, 2012 Author Share Posted February 17, 2012 Scoundrels/Operatives still have all the fundamental Smuggler/Agent skills that help them to be ranged. Is it optimal? Of course not, but not everyone gives a flying Force what's optimal. Do they not care or do they just not know better? Ignorance is bliss, I guess. But it's better to know what kind of class you chose, and play it a different way... than to not have a clue in the first place. If someone doesn't know what kind of role they're playing then I consider it my duty to AT LEAST inform them they aren't playing the way they should be. From there I could care less, although this guy was in my group so it was directly affecting me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dezzi Posted February 17, 2012 Share Posted February 17, 2012 (edited) Do they not care or do they just not know better? Ignorance is bliss, I guess. But it's better to know what kind of class you chose, and play it a different way... than to not have a clue in the first place. If someone doesn't know what kind of role they're playing then I consider it my duty to AT LEAST inform them they aren't playing the way they should be. From there I could care less, although this guy was in my group so it was directly affecting me. The fact of the matter is that you assumed he was ignorant. Everyone knows the truth about assumptions, right? Edited February 17, 2012 by Dezzi Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coiffio Posted February 17, 2012 Share Posted February 17, 2012 Even a melee op/scoundrel at that level barely has all the tools they need to really dish out the pain in melee range. The spec kinda blows until you're in your 30s Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TaintedSquirrel Posted February 17, 2012 Author Share Posted February 17, 2012 (edited) The fact of the matter is that you assumed he was ignorant. Everyone knows the truth about assumptions, right? I assumed nothing. I could have also assumed he KNEW what he was doing on purpose, and chose not to tell him... But why would I do that? It's better to be safe than sorry. Even a melee op/scoundrel at that level barely has all the tools they need to really dish out the pain in melee range. The spec kinda blows until you're in your 30s Melee dominates AT LEVEL 10 once you receive the Op/Scoundrel buffs from choosing your AC. Edited February 17, 2012 by TaintedSquirrel Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andryah Posted February 17, 2012 Share Posted February 17, 2012 (edited) Only one of their specs is melee actually. Perhaps you ought to learn2play yourself, before trying to tell others to Exactly. The spec flexibility allows them to play ranged, if that is what they want to do. It might be less then peak optimizaiton of their dps, but if that is what they like to play, nothing wrong with it, except to min/maxers and cookie cutter enforcers. It could also be he really cooks it with ranged, and does better then the average Op/Scoundrel. OP, I find you rather fixed and close minded here. Or maybe you are a cookie cutter min/maxer trying to impose your will of play on others. Edited February 17, 2012 by Andryah Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yfelsung Posted February 17, 2012 Share Posted February 17, 2012 This is why I no longer even attempt to help a player become better. If I enter a group where a player is being a handicap to the group, I quietly leave and go find a new group. Occasionally, when asked why I left, I'll tell them why in as polite a manner as possible. Basically something akin to "Player X is not playing his class correctly. I do not wish to insult him/her or cause conflict, so I have decided to find my own group with better players." Thankfully this has often lead to the bad player being booted and me being reinvited. Politeness works well, even when you're not doing polite things. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ptwonline Posted February 17, 2012 Share Posted February 17, 2012 This game does a poor job overall in teaching players how to properly play their classes. The main problem IMO is because you get a set of basic abilities early on. In most games these are typically your most important core abilities and you learn to use them early. But in this game as you branch out to advanced classes many of these abilities fall by the wayside and should become only periphery abilities at best, and not your main ones. But because you got them early and used them so much early, people still think they are what they are supposed to still be using and so they do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flyersfan Posted February 17, 2012 Share Posted February 17, 2012 Do they not care or do they just not know better? Ignorance is bliss, I guess. But it's better to know what kind of class you chose, and play it a different way... than to not have a clue in the first place. If someone doesn't know what kind of role they're playing then I consider it my duty to AT LEAST inform them they aren't playing the way they should be. From there I could care less, although this guy was in my group so it was directly affecting me. My Shadow would be far more effective as doing damage if she was full Balance, but I don't want to do that. I want Kinetic Ward, so I use my own hybrid build. Again, it's not optimal, but I don't care. My Commando flat out refuses to use an assault cannon. She's Armstech so that she can make her own rifles and avoid that ridiculous weapon. However, that has actually been optimal thus far. I'm currently outcrafting mission rewards, which I found surprising. I hope that lasts. Reading your last sentence brings a thought to mind: I would really have to see what you said to him. Giving some advice such as "you may be able to do more damage by getting closer and using your Scoundrel's mêlée abilities could help you crank out more damage" is quite different than "why aren't you in mêlée range? What're you doing?" He may have overreacted depending on what you said and how you said it, but I blame the constantly-on-spikes MMO community mentality for that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coiffio Posted February 17, 2012 Share Posted February 17, 2012 Melee dominates AT LEVEL 10 once you receive the Op/Scoundrel buffs from choosing your AC. If you say so, with that slow shiv attack that that barely finishes off a normal mob. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flyersfan Posted February 17, 2012 Share Posted February 17, 2012 This game does a poor job overall in teaching players how to properly play their classes. The main problem IMO is because you get a set of basic abilities early on. In most games these are typically your most important core abilities and you learn to use them early. But in this game as you branch out to advanced classes many of these abilities fall by the wayside and should become only periphery abilities at best, and not your main ones. But because you got them early and used them so much early, people still think they are what they are supposed to still be using and so they do. This is completely true. It'd be nice to see them implement some kind of tutorial or at least give you a rundown of how to play the class while at the AC selection screen. What I consider to the be the "in-character" description that the AC missions giver tells you just isn't enough and is usually quite inaccurate or vague depending on the class. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ferroz Posted February 17, 2012 Share Posted February 17, 2012 The fact of the matter is that you assumed he was ignorant. Everyone knows the truth about assumptions, right? yeah, it makes an *** out of u and mptions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flyersfan Posted February 17, 2012 Share Posted February 17, 2012 If you say so, with that slow shiv attack that that barely finishes off a normal mob. Well, I naturally started playing my Operative as more of a mêlée class after getting all my mêlée attacks. Once you have Shiv, Debilitate, and Backstab, it's somewhat logical to put two and two together and realise that you should run up and stab somebody. I tend to run to cover while they're cooling down, though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Qoojo Posted February 17, 2012 Share Posted February 17, 2012 You didn't state the role he was playing. If he was the healer, do you really want your healer up in melee range? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TaintedSquirrel Posted February 17, 2012 Author Share Posted February 17, 2012 You didn't state the role he was playing. If he was the healer, do you really want your healer up in melee range? To be fair he did nothing to indicate a role (no role-specific abilities). He wasn't healing, he never gained UH so I couldn't check for the healing buff and I never saw the 21-second DoT go up, so I can only assume he spent 0 of his skill points. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trolltar Posted February 17, 2012 Share Posted February 17, 2012 I'm all for people playing the game how they want. However, once they're in a group I expect everyone to pull their weight, myself included. Because I don't want to keep repeating the same boss fight because the operative hates his knife. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andryah Posted February 17, 2012 Share Posted February 17, 2012 You didn't state the role he was playing. If he was the healer, do you really want your healer up in melee range? /agree. Even if he was on backup heal. Nothing worse then your healer spending all his time healing himself and not the group. Melee is hazardous, ranged has an advantage in this game in terms of damage out vs damage in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slugkeg Posted February 17, 2012 Share Posted February 17, 2012 If you don't like the way a toon looks, smells, or plays their class just don't group with them. Just mind your own business and move on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andryah Posted February 17, 2012 Share Posted February 17, 2012 To be fair he did nothing to indicate a role (no role-specific abilities). He wasn't healing, he never gained UH so I couldn't check for the healing buff and I never saw the 21-second DoT go up, so I can only assume he spent 0 of his skill points. Having read all your follow-up comments in the thread, your attitude comes through pretty clearly (and it's not group friendly), so I can very well see why he told you to get out of his face. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trolltar Posted February 17, 2012 Share Posted February 17, 2012 If you don't like the way a toon looks, smells, or plays their class just don't group with them. Just mind your own business and move on. Yes, but, I'd rather say something to the person first. That way you give them a chance to improve their performance before they're off on their own. Sometimes you'll get someone that gets all up in your face about it, but I still think its the right thing to do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TaintedSquirrel Posted February 17, 2012 Author Share Posted February 17, 2012 Having read all your follow-up comments in the thread, your attitude comes through pretty clearly (and it's not group friendly), so I can very well see why he told you to get out of his face. Where did I say I was polite about it? Like I need to be criticized by some guy in-game who clearly has a weak grasp on the game's core concepts and chooses to get angry at me because I tell him his Rogue is, in fact, not an Archer. The exact quote I told him was: "You know you're melee like a rogue, right?" I know this because I've said it to about half a dozen Operatives in the past but they were level 11. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malastare Posted February 17, 2012 Share Posted February 17, 2012 If someone doesn't know what kind of role they're playing then I consider it my duty to AT LEAST inform them they aren't playing the way they should be. From there I could care less, although this guy was in my group so it was directly affecting me. I agree 110%. Actually, more like 140%. The whole purpose of creating two advanced classes with their own choices between three skill trees was to make it easier for us to figure who was failing to play correctly. Choice is for losers. It's just a test to see if you're as cool and uber as I am. There is only One True Way[tm] to play and anyone deviating from that is obviously a complete moron. I mean, honestly, if they made the game so that there were multiple different ways of playing it, then how would we know who to be elitist jerks to? We'd have to actually use our brains for like... analytical thinking. And that takes a while, so we'd have to actually respect people's opinions until we figured out whether it was okay to insult the way they spend their free time. This whole situation is just getting worse, too, with the fixes that Bioware is doing. As much as I want some damage meters to help me flag people for ridicule, I just don't think it will come fast enough. They really need to add some simple calculations to check to see whether a given player is playing in the One True Way[tm] and flag them with a dunce cap or maybe big clown shoes. RPG's are complex, and I don't have time to figure out who I'm supposed to be acting like an elitist jerk around. [/sarcasm, in case it wasn't obvious] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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