People leaving wz is now out of control.

[HelinCarnate]

Maybe separating PUGs from Premades and allowing people to chose the WZ they want, would help a lot.

 

Goes way beyond maybe. I don't like arena. Every arena I get into I will quit before it starts. If I get punished I will switch characters. If it is an account wide punishment Ill find another game.

[SammuelSK]

Goes way beyond maybe. I don't like arena. Every arena I get into I will quit before it starts. If I get punished I will switch characters. If it is an account wide punishment Ill find another game.

 

It hasn't been maybe in years. I stopped PVPing ages ago, but decided to give it a try yesterday. Three matches, all against premades from the same guild.

 

One match was actually 8 players from the same guild. So two premade groups facing a pug.

 

That's just *********** awesome. Quit the match, and back to not bothering to queue up for this useless crap. I play to have fun, not to be fodder for some guild grinding out conquest points.

 

You want to stop people from dropping? Fix the underlying problem. PVP is just not fun.

[Devilzownz]

It hasn't been maybe in years. I stopped PVPing ages ago, but decided to give it a try yesterday. Three matches, all against premades from the same guild.

 

One match was actually 8 players from the same guild. So two premade groups facing a pug.

 

That's just *********** awesome. Quit the match, and back to not bothering to queue up for this useless crap. I play to have fun, not to be fodder for some guild grinding out conquest points.

 

You want to stop people from dropping? Fix the underlying problem. PVP is just not fun.

What problem? That some are smart enough to queue for pvp with their friends/guildmates and some are not? It is an MMO after all. Not a single player game. You tired of premades? Find one for yourself. FFS it's not that difficult. It's honestly mostly laziness. Sorry to burst the whinefest bubble here about premades, but that's not the problem. The problem is no one wanting to put any effort into their experience to make it more fun. They just want it ez mode and are angry that it's not.

[SammuelSK]

What problem? That some are smart enough to queue for pvp with their friends/guildmates and some are not? It is an MMO after all. Not a single player game. You tired of premades? Find one for yourself. FFS it's not that difficult. It's honestly mostly laziness. Sorry to burst the whinefest bubble here about premades, but that's not the problem. The problem is no one wanting to put any effort into their experience to make it more fun. They just want it ez mode and are angry that it's not.

 

Game is supposed to be fun.

 

When people drop, its because they are not having fun. The reasons they aren't having fun are pretty apparent.

 

You want people to stop dropping, fix those problems. Seems pretty damn simple to me.

 

Edit: Calling people lazy because they don't want to put up with a broken system is borderline ignorant. Its not up to them as players to spend days/weeks grinding out loss after loss in order to achieve 'something' that will enable them maybe to have fun.

Edited August 29, 2014 by SammuelSK

[DomiSotto]

I will take a penalty if a penalty is applied, but I too would prefer that at least the type of the warzone (4x4 or 8x8) can be specified. I understand if that cannot be done, but I would rather not be penalized for what I believe is the right and selfless choice. I have a lot of fun learning to PvP, and trying to gear up, but I do not want to do it at the expense of ruining a match for 3 more players, by staying in a 4x4.

[Devilzownz]

Game is supposed to be fun.

 

When people drop, its because they are not having fun. The reasons they aren't having fun are pretty apparent.

 

You want people to stop dropping, fix those problems. Seems pretty damn simple to me.

 

Edit: Calling people lazy because they don't want to put up with a broken system is borderline ignorant. Its not up to them as players to spend days/weeks grinding out loss after loss in order to achieve 'something' that will enable them maybe to have fun.

Sorry, but calling the system broken because you refuse to put any effort into it is laziness. Again it's an MMO there are plenty of people out there. Ask around for anyone that wants to form a premade pvp group and go at it. Really not that difficult and nothing broken about it at all. And no I don't personally play with a premade group, just tired of people complaining that it's broken when it's not.

[SammuelSK]

Sorry, but calling the system broken because you refuse to put any effort into it is laziness. Again it's an MMO there are plenty of people out there. Ask around for anyone that wants to form a premade pvp group and go at it. Really not that difficult and nothing broken about it at all. And no I don't personally play with a premade group, just tired of people complaining that it's broken when it's not.

 

Sorry mate, but no. System is broken, has been broken for years.

 

When you are forced as a PUG to play against a 8 man premade, that is broken. A system that worked properly would be throwing those two groups against each other in arena matches. Instead of combining them into a roflstomp pug crusher.

 

Players want to have fun, not be fodder. It has nothing to do with lazyness... that's never been the issue, simple the excuse used to justify the existence of a game breaking system.

Edited August 29, 2014 by SammuelSK

[Tellenn]

Sorry, but calling the system broken because you refuse to put any effort into it is laziness. Again it's an MMO there are plenty of people out there. Ask around for anyone that wants to form a premade pvp group and go at it. Really not that difficult and nothing broken about it at all. And no I don't personally play with a premade group, just tired of people complaining that it's broken when it's not.

 

I've been in a very large multi gaming guild for 7 years. What I'm about to say is true for every game I've ever played. Everyone aint getting in a premade. If we need a healer great we'll have you if your decent. If you a tank you have to be good. Average tanks are a wasted slot in any game. There isnt enough healers and certainly not enough tanks that can play it properly to go around the real premades take them when we have a slot. That slot is always for a healer maybe tank. dps wont get a look in.

Edited August 29, 2014 by Tellenn

[DariusCalera]

I've been in a very large multi gaming guild for 7 years. What I'm about to say is true for every game I've ever played. Everyone aint getting in a premade. If we need a healer great we'll have you if your decent. If you a tank you have to be good. Average tanks are a wasted slot in any game. There isnt enough healers and certainly not enough tanks that can play it properly to go around the real premades take them when we have a slot. That slot is always for a healer maybe tank. dps wont get a look in.

 

Everyone has the option to form a premade. Now, they might not have a tank, healer, and 2 dps but they can join with 1-3 other players that they enjoy running with and understand what they're doing.

[SammuelSK]

Everyone has the option to form a premade. Now, they might not have a tank, healer, and 2 dps but they can join with 1-3 other players that they enjoy running with and understand what they're doing.

 

And premades have the option of queuing up for ranked warzones, but don't bother because unranked offers the same reward(in this current case conquest points), with much less effort or grief.

 

Look, the issue isn't going to be solved because Bioware frankly doesn't give a **** about it. I simply take umbrage in this assumption that its players being lazy, when its just them being tired of a system that is broken, has always been broken, and will continue to be broken.

[foxmob]

Goes way beyond maybe. I don't like arena. Every arena I get into I will quit before it starts. If I get punished I will switch characters. If it is an account wide punishment Ill find another game.

 

I do not feel this way about arenas. I do quit queshball about half the time. a lot of ppl are like that with different maps while others are not. that is kind of a moot point. my question to you about arenas, though, is why do you care? they pop so rarely in the reg queue, and seemingly only when there's a very small population in the queue. don't get me wrong. I could get queshball 1 in 15, and if I don't feel up to it, I'll still drop it. I'm just saying that I could care less that it's in the queue. it doesn't pop very frequently (but more so than any arenas).

[DomiSotto]

I beg you to differ. I have arenas popping at least once every day I play, and often twice. Sometimes in a row, even if I give a good 10+ min for the arena to fill up and get off to a good start.

[foxmob]

so do I. that's like 2 in 15.

 

it's not even random. it's related to the population in the queue at the time.

[Devilzownz]

And premades have the option of queuing up for ranked warzones, but don't bother because unranked offers the same reward(in this current case conquest points), with much less effort or grief.

 

Look, the issue isn't going to be solved because Bioware frankly doesn't give a **** about it. I simply take umbrage in this assumption that its players being lazy, when its just them being tired of a system that is broken, has always been broken, and will continue to be broken.

The "issue" isn't going to be solved because there's already a solution to it in game. Which I have already told you. Hence it is not a broken system and there is no "issue" other than lack of effort.

[DomiSotto]

Well, one 4x4 is one too many for the likes of me, so I am counting Conan-style: one, two... MANY! Edited August 30, 2014 by DomiSotto

[Devilzownz]

Everyone has the option to form a premade. Now, they might not have a tank, healer, and 2 dps but they can join with 1-3 other players that they enjoy running with and understand what they're doing.

^ This

[SammuelSK]

The "issue" isn't going to be solved because there's already a solution to it in game. Which I have already told you. Hence it is not a broken system and there is no "issue" other than lack of effort.

 

You are right, there is a solution.. simply not queue up anymore. Which is exactly what I'm gone back to doing.

 

System is broken, as it does reward lazy premade's by offering them free wins and conquest points for queuing up against pugs instead of requiring them to face other premades in ranked PVP, which is where they rightly belong. It doesn't even appear to put any effort into throwing premade groups against each other, as a short queue timer trumps all other considerations. Unranked PVP should be about having fun, not about grinding out points/kills/whatever... not a hard concept to understand I would think. No player's ability to have fun should hinge on how many amazing players he surrounds himself with, and win or lose he should feel like he's, rightly, accompished something.

 

Personally, I'm all for people dropping as long as the system remains as is, with zero punishment.

 

Additionally, since you brought out your own, so called, pvp credentials in some odd effort to sway the arguement I feel I should do the same. I've PVPed since launch, played multiple characters up to cap through nothing but PVP matches and have done so almost exclusively with groups of friends, I've run both optimized and friendly premades and am well aware of the disadvantages/advantages of both. That said I can't help but feel that the game desperately needs seperate queues for both, because the system as is now is designed to exclude anyone but the hardcore, run a premade and nothing else player.

 

/end conversation for me.

Edited August 30, 2014 by SammuelSK

[KingDeathII]

Whats with all the thread necromancy in the PVP Section? I was so confused reading the original posts and seeing they were from 2012. Also stop posting in this thread its so old :|

[Wudnin]

You are right, there is a solution.. simply not queue up anymore. Which is exactly what I'm gone back to doing.

 

System is broken, as it does reward lazy premade's by offering them free wins and conquest points for queuing up against pugs instead of requiring them to face other premades in ranked PVP, which is where they rightly belong. It doesn't even appear to put any effort into throwing premade groups against each other, as a short queue timer trumps all other considerations. Unranked PVP should be about having fun, not about grinding out points/kills/whatever... not a hard concept to understand I would think. No player's ability to have fun should hinge on how many amazing players he surrounds himself with, and win or lose he should feel like he's, rightly, accompished something.

 

Personally, I'm all for people dropping as long as the system remains as is, with zero punishment.

 

Additionally, since you brought out your own, so called, pvp credentials in some odd effort to sway the arguement I feel I should do the same. I've PVPed since launch, played multiple characters up to cap through nothing but PVP matches and have done so almost exclusively with groups of friends, I've run both optimized and friendly premades and am well aware of the disadvantages/advantages of both. That said I can't help but feel that the game desperately needs seperate queues for both, because the system as is now is designed to exclude anyone but the hardcore, run a premade and nothing else player.

 

/end conversation for me.

 

I've pretty much walked a similar path as you when it comes to your PvP history. I eventually quit PvPing myself due to this endless steamrolling PuGs and I went through when soloing, despiting having the resources and means to be in a premade even to this day. What I don't grasp isn't necessarily people like Devilzownz's childish denial of this issue, but how Bioware could've allowed this to go on for so long, how PUGs and people choosing to solo WZs are punished for doing so.

 

I'm fulfilling my PvP experience somewhere else, which in itself is more than satisfactory, but at the same time it's sad, because PvP content in SWTOR is and has gone to waste. And while I don't intend to touch PvP in this game anytime soon with this current system in place, people still being in denial will eventually wake up when they realize nobody's queueing anymore in the worst case scenario. Perhaps it ought to happen for things to change.

[Tellenn]

The "issue" isn't going to be solved because there's already a solution to it in game. Which I have already told you. Hence it is not a broken system and there is no "issue" other than lack of effort.

 

As I said from 7 years of real pvp mmos your deluded if you think you will get the majority of players into premades. It just takes the better more organised players, usually those that can lead, out of the pugs and means they are at an even bigger disadvantage. More premades isnt the answer.

 

As my guild quit soon after launch and I only come back from time to time I dont see what pvpers do in a premade. Why we all quit we were standing around for half an hour at a time on ilum just looking at the pub base hoping someone might come out between pops. Add to that nothing for 16s or 24s warbands (miss wars real largescale pvp) so you have to split up your usual group from other games. Even in proper pvp guilds you have average players and you can hide them in 16s not so in 4s so even mates you might want to leave. The game just doesnt promote proper group pvp like alot of other mmos.

 

The mentality of the premade vs the casual is huge. You can really get carried away on the idea of competition and forget its a game and about everyone having fun. I know I have been guilty of it in the past. When you get to the stage your totally closed of from even sections of your own guild that you dont think are good enough then you need to reassess why your playing. I did.

Edited August 30, 2014 by Tellenn

[PloGreen]

As I said from 7 years of real pvp mmos your deluded if you think you will get the majority of players into premades. It just takes the better more organised players, usually those that can lead, out of the pugs and means they are at an even bigger disadvantage. More premades isnt the answer.

 

As my guild quit soon after launch and I only come back from time to time I dont see what pvpers do in a premade. Why we all quit we were standing around for half an hour at a time on ilum just looking at the pub base hoping someone might come out between pops. Add to that nothing for 16s or 24s warbands (miss wars real largescale pvp) so you have to split up your usual group from other games. Even in proper pvp guilds you have average players and you can hide them in 16s not so in 4s so even mates you might want to leave. The game just doesnt promote proper group pvp like alot of other mmos.

 

The mentality of the premade vs the casual is huge. You can really get carried away on the idea of competition and forget its a game and about everyone having fun. I know I have been guilty of it in the past. When you get to the stage your totally closed of from even sections of your own guild that you dont think are good enough then you need to reassess why your playing. I did.

 

Not all premades are pvp orientated or of a high standard though. Plenty of people can make a premade within their guilds and they do, they are not all casual stomping death machines, far from it. Anyone can form a premade it just takes the will to do it.

 

Whether that premade is decent or not is the crux of the issue. But that go's for individual players. If you decided to solo queue you are in effect taking the chance on what you roll with and what you face. If you meet better players or strong premades, deal with it or quit the warzone and join another game. It's not difficult. It is a choice we all make one way or another and we should all be grown up enough to realize that the choices we make ourselves are what can determine the outcome of a game, be that premades, being undergeared. You cannot just expect Bioware to "make fair matches" - this is just impossible, it simply won't happen - you remove 4 man teams from the q and people will just complain about something else.

 

The point is the options and solutions are available to all, its up to us whether we choose to take them or not. Or we can just cry and hope everything is balanced perfectly for us every we time we choose to q solo. You will never get fair matches if you leave this kind of thing in the hands of rng matchmaking. Random is random, too many factors go into lopsided matches, not just premades.

[Devilzownz]

As I said from 7 years of real pvp mmos your deluded if you think you will get the majority of players into premades. It just takes the better more organised players, usually those that can lead, out of the pugs and means they are at an even bigger disadvantage. More premades isnt the answer.

 

As my guild quit soon after launch and I only come back from time to time I dont see what pvpers do in a premade. Why we all quit we were standing around for half an hour at a time on ilum just looking at the pub base hoping someone might come out between pops. Add to that nothing for 16s or 24s warbands (miss wars real largescale pvp) so you have to split up your usual group from other games. Even in proper pvp guilds you have average players and you can hide them in 16s not so in 4s so even mates you might want to leave. The game just doesnt promote proper group pvp like alot of other mmos.

 

The mentality of the premade vs the casual is huge. You can really get carried away on the idea of competition and forget its a game and about everyone having fun. I know I have been guilty of it in the past. When you get to the stage your totally closed of from even sections of your own guild that you dont think are good enough then you need to reassess why your playing. I did.

I have pvped in everything from EQ to the latest MMOs and in every type of pvp from just casual play to serious ranked. I have done so for well over 15 years now and I can tell you with all of that experience behind me that ANYONE can form a premade group and pvp with it. Will they immediately start stomping pug groups? Not likely. If they work together long enough though they learn to communicate better and to better understand what their teammates will do. In so doing they become better as a team. I say again ABSOLUTELY ANYONE can do this if they are willing to put in the effort. Also WAR was a kids game compared to AO massive scale pvp in it's prime, but that's an argument for another time.

[Tellenn]

I have pvped in everything from EQ to the latest MMOs and in every type of pvp from just casual play to serious ranked. I have done so for well over 15 years now and I can tell you with all of that experience behind me that ANYONE can form a premade group and pvp with it. Will they immediately start stomping pug groups? Not likely. If they work together long enough though they learn to communicate better and to better understand what their teammates will do. In so doing they become better as a team. I say again ABSOLUTELY ANYONE can do this if they are willing to put in the effort. Also WAR was a kids game compared to AO massive scale pvp in it's prime, but that's an argument for another time.

 

Those were pvp games with owpvp that heavily promotes large consistent group pvp. Not a casual pve game with queued arena based pvp. Totally different in the type of pvp and grouping they encourage. You will never have the type of players in swtor that you found in daoc and war. Those games had proper factions and 400 +player battles of multiple 24 man warbands. Real PVP.

 

And AOs engine was extremely basic compared to daoc and wars. The combat was rudimentary and slow paced. You can't take the pvp seriously compared to mythics real pvp mmos.

Edited September 2, 2014 by Tellenn

[Devilzownz]

Those were pvp games with owpvp that heavily promotes large consistent group pvp. Not a casual pve game with queued arena based pvp. Totally different in the type of pvp and grouping they encourage. You will never have the type of players in swtor that you found in daoc and war.

 

And AOs engine was extremely basic compared to daoc and wars. The combat was rudimentary and slow paced. You can't take the pvp seriously compared to mythics real pvp mmos.

The thing is, though, that anyone can do what I and several others have suggested. Whether they choose to or not is up to them, but the option is still there. So there's is no point for BW to dumb down the system just because people aren't willing to put in minimal effort.

 

There is no comparison from AO to DAOC as DAOC blows most MMOs out of the water in pvp. WAR on the other hand doesn't even come close IMO. WAR started decent but just went on this massive downhill slide with every new patch. It was such a shame since that game had huge potential.

 

Edit: The one thing from WAR that I miss in every new MMO now was the ability to level purely through pvp without having to grind 10 times as much per level.

Edited September 2, 2014 by Devilzownz

[wainot-keel]

Sucks when people leave, but there are good reasons to do so. Game can't really fairly assess when it happens so "punishements" are to be handed.

 

I get when some leave immediately after a turret/node has been lost, because they think there's no way to turn that around (which often enough does happen) but meh... I have the option of leaving or staying as well...

 

I rarely leave. If it's really bad, I'll stealth out and stay in a corner . I figure is best to stay and take the rewards you do get even with a loss than trying my luck in the next match. Of course, many are completely decked in brutalizer gear so they really don't have a reason to stay at all...

 

I think the only moment it really bugs me when people leave is when there is a full group, and the gates just opened to start the match, leaving the team with one less (or more) with no apparent reason.