Lack of End Game: Is BW reacting quick enough?

[zeroempathy]

I'll be unsubbing for a few months till there is actually decent loots and a decent crafting system, hell maybe the Ops bugs will be fixed too. Also, my endgame gear doesn't feel very epic, just feels like a 5% boost in coolness. I got my champ saber a few weeks after hitting 50, later got my Draay's Legacy in KP after much more work and I gained like 17 willpower and lost 23 endurance, doesn't feel too epic.

[Kaelshi]

Most players are not level 50 yet.

 

There is a balance between providing enough content for people to do who choose to rush to level 50 - which is their prerogative - and enough for a majority of the players to not be over-whelmed with if they are not through it all before the next patch comes out with additional content.

 

The fact is - lets say BW had included 5 more Flashpoints for people to run. This "I'm 50 already and bored" stuff has been going on for the last month. So instead of it starting a month ago, it would have been starting now, or 2 weeks ago, or a week from now.

 

When you choose to play the game a certain way - ignoring certain aspects of the game and focusing only on leveling asap and running end-game content asap - this is just what is going to happen. It really would not matter how much content was introduced - you were going to rush through it and complete it - and since you do not wish to partake of the additional content that does not interest you(which is your right) you are stuck with nothing to do.

 

There is no way around this problem - it has happened in every mmo ever to one extent or another - and it will happen in all of the ones after it - you just need to learn to deal with it and/or learn to develop some other interests within the mmo(or not and just stop complaining)

[Bluetickone]

wait, so youre telling me that with +/- 2 million subs at $15 bucks a month BW cant afford to hire developers to put end game content in place? comon, give me break.

[Airishok]

Let me give some of the "zomg make your own content" people a little story about why I agree with the complaining.

 

I was leveling up my character and was in a cantina, I found the social item vendor, "oh kewlz" I said to myself. I right click on her and scope out what she has to offer. Lo and behold, slave girl cloths! I was very excited by this as they were also modable and only took social 2 to get. SOCIAL 2! Seems like a short hop from social 1 right? WRONG...

 

I've been stuck at the same CENSORED social points since I hit 50. I run flashpoints and get no social points from the conversations, working as intended? I run operations, in which there are no social points to be gained, even though I'm running said operations with 7 other players. (makes sense, eh?)

 

So I ask you if I can't do the content I tried to make for myself because the game came out unpolished and too soon, simply to beat the Diablo 3/ Guild Wars 2/ Tera release dates. (and it did come out too soon, even the Bounty Hunter story line was bugged and had been reported since beta.)

 

I'm all for making my own fun, but when I try to make my own fun only to have random issues that I cannot overcome myself get thrown in my face, I'm inclined to rush to the word quit.

 

I'm sure some of you will have "witty" bye-bye, or just quit then comments that will have all those who lay eyes on them holding their sides...but I do love star wars and I do want the star wars mmo to be fun. It's just at some point you can't close your eyes, cover your ears, and go LA-LA-LA-LA when someone bring up an issue they have with the game.

 

There is more I could say, but I doubt this is going to reach the people it's intended to reach, so flame away and tell my I'm wrong. Though I know that some will read this post and know that what I'm saying is exactly what they are saying as well.

[TonyIommi]

Fact: If your only form of endgame is developer-generated content, people will clear it much faster than you can introduce new things, unless the content is extremely hard (see: Age of Conan Tier 3 and Tier 4).

 

Fact: If something is too hard or too easy people will complain there is "nothing to do."

 

 

So the answer is, "Bioware will never be able to react quick enough."

 

Pretty much but it puzzles me why people don't make this same argument about that other big game. Christ its far worse in warcraft. We had ICC for almost a year before any new content came out. How long in between Dragon soul and MOP? Swtor has like bi monthly content patches at this rate. Still not enough. Their is literally on pleasing you people.

[sheisty]

wait, so youre telling me that with +/- 2 million subs at $15 bucks a month BW cant afford to hire developers to put end game content in place? comon, give me break.

 

Yeah, imagine that. Blizzard made like 1.5 billion dollars last year and they only managed to squeeze out 3 measly additions in a year and most of it was reskinned crap already in the game.

[ptwonline]

Pretty much but it puzzles me why people don't make this same argument about that other big game. Christ its far worse in warcraft. We had ICC for almost a year before any new content came out. How long in between Dragon soul and MOP? Swtor has like bi monthly content patches at this rate. Still not enough. Their is literally on pleasing you people.

 

It's because they successfully made ICC a treadmill where it took a lot of players a very, very long time to progress through it, but slowly and surely they did. This kept them interested because it was still a progression path, even if it was repetitive.

 

One of the big reasons Cata crashed and burned like it did is because they shut those progression paths down. 10 man and 25 man giving the same loot cut out a lot of progression, as did the difficulty level (until recent months). And so even though content came out faster, people felt like they had nothing to do.

 

It's not just about content per se. It's about the ability to keep progressing.

[TSBhunter]

I'm not 50 yet, so I can't really say what the state of the game is. But I played FFXI for many years and I remember early on the only endgame was fighting basically the equivalent to world bosses. Next expansion and an area was added known as "Sky." This consisted of camping several hard bosses for hours to get drop items for the "Gods." Then 18+ people take on the Gods and one or two people get some loot. Wash rinse repeat. Next expansion the game added "Sea," which had a similar setup to sky but also had several new types of raids (basically). Slowly overtime the endgame in FFXI grew and grew, so everytime people started to get all the gear from the last endgame fad, a new one came with slightly better gear. This took years and you had to purchase each of these expansion packs, but god it was worth it. (it took weeks/months to even complete the quest line to gain access to Sea or Sky)

 

What I'm saying is CHILL! Admittedly, a lot of people have been playing WoW or similar games are tired of PVP and raids being their only endgame options. Bioware is creative though, and I have faith that they will come up with something clever, time consuming and sufficiently difficult to make the journey worth it.

[sheisty]

It's because they successfully made ICC a treadmill where it took a lot of players a very, very long time to progress through it, but slowly and surely they did. This kept them interested because it was still a progression path, even if it was repetitive.

 

One of the big reasons Cata crashed and burned like it did is because they shut those progression paths down. 10 man and 25 man giving the same loot cut out a lot of progression, as did the difficulty level (until recent months). And so even though content came out faster, people felt like they had nothing to do.

 

It's not just about content per se. It's about the ability to keep progressing.

 

Grinding the same dungeon for months for a chance at +5 stat is not good gameplay and its not progression. Its simply grinding.

Edited February 16, 2012 by sheisty

[Kaelshi]

wait, so youre telling me that with +/- 2 million subs at $15 bucks a month BW cant afford to hire developers to put end game content in place? comon, give me break.

 

er, maybe they should get in touch with you and ask you how much is enough?

 

I mean - go on any server and a relatively small amount of people are current level 50 - so the amount of end-game content is not even an issue for most players.

 

So what...10 more flashpoints? 5? 50? I mean...since you're the expert on the right amount of content....

[TonyIommi]

It's because they successfully made ICC a treadmill where it took a lot of players a very, very long time to progress through it, but slowly and surely they did. This kept them interested because it was still a progression path, even if it was repetitive.

 

One of the big reasons Cata crashed and burned like it did is because they shut those progression paths down. 10 man and 25 man giving the same loot cut out a lot of progression, as did the difficulty level (until recent months). And so even though content came out faster, people felt like they had nothing to do.

 

It's not just about content per se. It's about the ability to keep progressing.

 

Yep. The decision to go with one raid lock out per week was the worst decision they made this expansion and one of the non starters for me ever to sub back for that game. Makes me wonder how people will tolerate DS for however long till MOP.

[gurugeorge]

Well, the problem is, both games want $15/month from me *right now.* And since I'm only going to pay for one of them, they have to compete "head to head." If they don't want to do that, SWTOR can let me play for free for the next 7 years of live play while they catch up.

 

I'm not blaming SWTOR for being years behind WoW. I get that WoW has been around a long time and has had lots of iterations and such. But I'm not paying as a social statement - I'm paying to play the best game I can. And that just doesn't seem to be SW, much as I want it to be.

 

I spent two months playing SWTOR, and yeah, it reminds me a lot of a space-skinned WoW vanilla, circa 2004. And if that's what it has to be, that's fine - but it doesn't win the race for my $15. If they go FTP, I'll come back. But I just can't justify the "big league" subscription fee for what is still a "AA" title.

 

Sadly, the reality is that no MMO is ever going to offer you a similar amount of content after 4 or 5 years' development up till launch, to WoW after 12 years total development, so your $15 dollars is probably going to stay in your pocket forever if that's the criterion you go by.

[Airishok]

Pretty much but it puzzles me why people don't make this same argument about that other big game. Christ its far worse in warcraft. We had ICC for almost a year before any new content came out. How long in between Dragon soul and MOP? Swtor has like bi monthly content patches at this rate. Still not enough. Their is literally on pleasing you people.

 

People are okay with it in wow because it actually takes time to gear up and is actually challenging to do Heroic difficulty. You can do NM in tionese/columi mixed gear and gain nothing you couldn't get from doing the fights on HM quicker. Not much of a problem to me gear wise, cause I play to enjoy the fights, but I don't enjoy the fights being mindless.

 

There is NO reason that a company can't supply content to people who want a challenge and content for people who want to mess around in their free time.

 

Edit: I would like to add that I agree with the sentiment that we should stop side-by-siding WoW and SW:TOR, but they does not mean we don't have the right to ask questions or make comment on how we see the game. No one complains, and nothing will change.

Edited February 16, 2012 by Airishok

[Divine-Shadow]

The....game....is.....not......even.....2......months.....old.....yet.....WoW......did......not.....launch......with.....7....years......of......stuff.....infact.......no......game.....has.....why......would.....this......be......any....different.....think......son.. Edited February 16, 2012 by Divine-Shadow

[TonyIommi]

People are okay with it in wow because it actually takes time to gear up and is actually challenging to do Heroic difficulty. You can do NM in tionese/columi mixed gear and gain nothing you couldn't get from doing the fights on HM quicker. Not much of a problem to me gear wise, cause I play to enjoy the fights, but I don't enjoy the fights being mindless.

 

There is NO reason that a company can't supply content to people who want a challenge and content for people who want to mess around in their free time.

 

DS is a snooze fest on any difficulty. Farming gear takes very little time especially if the rng gods smile on you.

[sheisty]

The....game....is.....not......even.....2......months.....old.....yet.....WoW......did......not.....launch......with.....7....years......of......stuff.....infact.......no......game.....has.....why......would.....this......be......any....different.....think......son..

 

Because of the car analogy, have you hear it yet?

[ptwonline]

Grinding the same dungeon for months for a chance at +5 stat is not good gameplay and its not progression. Its simply grinding.

 

And yet it got people hooked and kept them coming back week after week. It wasn't just grinding for a lot of people. It was actually progression because they couldn't defeat every boss in every mode, but slowly and surely were working their way through them. And for a lot of players this was their Molten Core and Blackwing Lair because raiding had not been accessible to them before.

[Kaelshi]

I 50'd too fast I guess.

 

I can't log on anymore (without wanting to dig my eyes out with a taco bell spork).

 

Ride in circles in the center of Ilum? Na, that's not epic.

 

Zerg raid on Ilum? Boooring...

 

Broken FP's with little / and sometimes no rewards? Na...

 

Or having done them all (?).

 

End Game? What end game?

 

Who can do the same things over and over THAT many times?

 

Once again, I'd recommend the game to anyone. 1-50 is great fun, but post 50, this game is empty.

 

Devoid of anything except a mouse maze that always has the same (or somtimes no) cheese at the end of the tunnel.

 

-Empty shelled

 

 

you're upset because apparently you choose to play a game over and over that makes you want to dig your eyes out? If it were me and I did not enjoy the game I would go do something different than play the game.

 

thats just me though. I mean come on man - there are people who enjoy Just Dance:Teen Revolutionz - you don't see me loading it up every day I get home from work and playing it while posting on their forums that they need to make changes so I can enjoy it.

[grueber]

They sure are quick at closing threads that don't float their boat. Be nice if they cranked out content and features as fast.

[Blotter]

Well, the problem is, both games want $15/month from me *right now.* And since I'm only going to pay for one of them, they have to compete "head to head." If they don't want to do that, SWTOR can let me play for free for the next 7 years of live play while they catch up.

 

I'm not blaming SWTOR for being years behind WoW. I get that WoW has been around a long time and has had lots of iterations and such. But I'm not paying as a social statement - I'm paying to play the best game I can. And that just doesn't seem to be SW, much as I want it to be.

 

I spent two months playing SWTOR, and yeah, it reminds me a lot of a space-skinned WoW vanilla, circa 2004. And if that's what it has to be, that's fine - but it doesn't win the race for my $15. If they go FTP, I'll come back. But I just can't justify the "big league" subscription fee for what is still a "AA" title.

 

Can I haz yor stuffs?

 

WoW is that way----------------->don't get lost. Buh-Bai Nao.

[Airishok]

DS is a snooze fest on any difficulty. Farming gear takes very little time especially if the rng gods smile on you.

 

Dragon soul may NOW be a snooze fest, but I bet you had some tough times when you first stepped into Heroic, say on Zon'ozz, or Ultraxion, or idk Spine/madness. Big factor, is you had to get the gear to do these encounters. You could pvp in this game and go into HM or NM EV and clear it without issue.

 

Refute away, I'm not coming back. See I may have logged on today and complained on the forums, but that only took an hour of my day. Now since I don't have any reason to log on to the actually game, I'm going to go out and do something. So as you can see people who complain are already doing other hobbies so telling them to go away isn't very effective.

 

Only takes a little while to read a thread and post a comment...

 

Here is a better question than "why aren't the complainers doing something else?". Why aren't the defenders of the game, those who say it's just fine and there is plenty to do, actually playing the game instead of browsing the forums?

[TonyIommi]

Dragon soul may NOW be a snooze fest, but I bet you had some tough times when you first stepped into Heroic, say on Zon'ozz, or Ultraxion, or idk Spine/madness. Big factor, is you had to get the gear to do these encounters. You could pvp in this game and go into HM or NM EV and clear it without issue.

 

Refute away, I'm not coming back. See I may have logged on today and complained on the forums, but that only took an hour of my day. Now since I don't have any reason to log on to the actually game, I'm going to go out and do something. So as you can see people who complain are already doing other hobbies so telling them to go away isn't very effective.

 

Only takes a little while to read a thread and post a comment...

 

Here is a better question than "why aren't the complainers doing something else?". Why aren't the defenders of the game, those who say it's just fine and there is plenty to do, actually playing the game instead of browsing the forums?

 

Because I'm at work atm. When I get home I'll forget about this noise and enjoy myself in the game People are just so presumptuous some days.

[Nytak]

I think someone hit the nail on the head earlier.

 

It isn't really a lack of activities at 50, it's the dramatic difference between your game play experience from 1-49 and 50. Not to mention the fact that bugs seem to be more detracting than they are while levelling. It's one thing to run into a hitch along the road to 50.. Most people shrug it off and carry on. Once you hit 50, when the small subset of content specifically for you starts to bug out.. well, it has a more profound impact on your game session.

 

That said.. I really don't see what they can do to change that aside from simply adding more content for the lvl 50 crowd, and fixing the bugs that do nothing but add to the frustration of a lvl 50 repeating the same content ad nausium while waiting for something new.

[Lostkitty]

every MMO will always run out of stuff to do at some point, there is alot of stuff to do but only for those that enjoy doing the samething over and over, they can't add 100 bosses every week to keep EVERYONE happy, in WoW I only log on for a max of 6 hours a week then I don't log on again

[Balrizangor]

er, maybe they should get in touch with you and ask you how much is enough?

 

I mean - go on any server and a relatively small amount of people are current level 50 - so the amount of end-game content is not even an issue for most players.

 

So what...10 more flashpoints? 5? 50? I mean...since you're the expert on the right amount of content....

 

 

How dare you question the doomsayers !! You shall be flamed for this and called a fanboy !!! The end is near for you, oh yes, near I tell you !!!!