peaceandpassion Posted February 16, 2012 Share Posted February 16, 2012 (edited) So my issue atm is that while looking for a flashpoint during the day im being asked time after time if i can "keep up". When i ask them what that means the reply i get enrages me further.... "Sorry its just that i HEAR that smugglers are terrible healers, looking more for a sage or commando sorry" Really? i meen ouch Are we that bad? my mains are level 50 (Guardian raid dps/offtank and a commando pure dps) and i honestly havent seen many smugglers in hardmodes at all that are sawbones. Is this a issue across the board or is this isolated to my experiance? I love my smuggler alt and i enjoy the healing even though i have to work harder to attain what my friends/guidies can do with there sage/mandos. So am i rolling the wrong toon for endgame healing? The fact that i enjoy the smuggler story and combat keeps me playing the class, but if im going to be passed over alot of the time for other classes that are equally geared im worried ill end up going dps just to get some gear Any advice on this issue? like i said i love smuggler (sawbones) and will be continuing, i just want to know if this issue is being seen across the game or just in rare occations? Peace out peeps Edited February 16, 2012 by peaceandpassion Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gyronamics Posted February 16, 2012 Share Posted February 16, 2012 Could be worse. You might be asked instead if you can actually kill your personal mini-boss in EV. Some specs of smugglers seem to have a lousy time doing enough damage to get theirs down. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pattsey Posted February 16, 2012 Share Posted February 16, 2012 At launch I would have said you're wasting your time and effort leveling a scoundrel. Now I say continue, I'm currently sitting on 1770 cunning in full Columi/Rakata gear and I out heal sages. Scoundrel healing is by far the most fun due to the fact that you actually have to WORK for you're healing you cant just spam 1 heal all day non stop without repercussions, the energy system is awesome (make sure to spec into Diagnostic scan if having troubles - I have it specced anyways as there is not much else to use 4 points on, when you have around 35-40% crit this allows diagnostic scan to just farm you energy non stop whenever you cast it.) Keeping pugnacity up is also key as letting it drop will really snag your balls in a HM Raid sometimes - never had energy troubles in HM flashpoints. The only thing we lack so to say is AoE healing which our neighbour Jedi Sages excel at. Admittedly i wouldnt mind a small AoE healing buff but with the current situation, it hasnt rendered me useless. Scoundrels also have in my opinion one of the strongest single target healing capabilities, Pop an UnderWorld Medicine on the target followed up by an Emergency Medpack and at my current stat level thats around 5-7k healed sometimes more depending on if they both crit. In terms of getting into groups i have never had a problem, probably because my server is such a low populated one everyone knows everyone now and I'm one of the only scoundrel healers in the republic. If someone responds to you by saying sorry i'd rather have a Sage or a Trooper they clearly arent capable of doing that HM. Ive been able to keep a tank in full greens/blues and two dps in around the same gear up fine whilst maintaining my energy above 60% admittedly it was a strain but either way smugglers are perfectly fine, capable healers and im starting to wish people would give them more of a chance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pattsey Posted February 16, 2012 Share Posted February 16, 2012 Could be worse. You might be asked instead if you can actually kill your personal mini-boss in EV. Some specs of smugglers seem to have a lousy time doing enough damage to get theirs down. you say that yet ive been able to get mine down pretty quickly, although yes scoundrel healers endgame dps is rather lacking in comparison to Sages and Commandos but thats to be expected. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erevan_Kindelar Posted February 16, 2012 Share Posted February 16, 2012 The other healing classes are easier than Sawbones/Operative, so a lot of groups get the impression that this class is an inferior healer. In reality, it can be as good or better than other healing classes, and can put out a bit more DPS at the same time, but the healing "rotation" that you need is more complex than for other classes. As with everything else, you are really only effective for high-end healing once you start to master the class. Until that point, Sawbones/Operative looks inferior. I recently rolled a Sawbones smuggler to group with a couple of friends, and now they ask me to bring the Sawbones rather than my Sage, even though the Sage is a girl wearing a metal bikini Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peaceandpassion Posted February 16, 2012 Author Share Posted February 16, 2012 Thanks fort he replys guys, feeling alot better about the spec now. And yea sawbones is alot of fun for me compared to sage/commando healing Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corran Posted February 16, 2012 Share Posted February 16, 2012 At launch I would have said you're wasting your time and effort leveling a scoundrel. Now I say continue, I'm currently sitting on 1770 cunning in full Columi/Rakata gear and I out heal sages. Scoundrel healing is by far the most fun due to the fact that you actually have to WORK for you're healing you cant just spam 1 heal all day non stop without repercussions, the energy system is awesome (make sure to spec into Diagnostic scan if having troubles - I have it specced anyways as there is not much else to use 4 points on, when you have around 35-40% crit this allows diagnostic scan to just farm you energy non stop whenever you cast it.) Keeping pugnacity up is also key as letting it drop will really snag your balls in a HM Raid sometimes - never had energy troubles in HM flashpoints. The only thing we lack so to say is AoE healing which our neighbour Jedi Sages excel at. Admittedly i wouldnt mind a small AoE healing buff but with the current situation, it hasnt rendered me useless. Scoundrels also have in my opinion one of the strongest single target healing capabilities, Pop an UnderWorld Medicine on the target followed up by an Emergency Medpack and at my current stat level thats around 5-7k healed sometimes more depending on if they both crit. In terms of getting into groups i have never had a problem, probably because my server is such a low populated one everyone knows everyone now and I'm one of the only scoundrel healers in the republic. If someone responds to you by saying sorry i'd rather have a Sage or a Trooper they clearly arent capable of doing that HM. Ive been able to keep a tank in full greens/blues and two dps in around the same gear up fine whilst maintaining my energy above 60% admittedly it was a strain but either way smugglers are perfectly fine, capable healers and im starting to wish people would give them more of a chance. your sages or commandos must suck. i have all 3 healers at 50 two of them in columi gear. the scoundrel is the worst of the 3 in terms of hps, hpe and ability to handle a crisis yes the scoundrel can do just fine but dont delude yourself into thinking they are on par with the other two options. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pattsey Posted February 16, 2012 Share Posted February 16, 2012 (edited) Im not deluding myself, these people im healing with have raided with me for a long time in previous MMO's and they are not bad players. I outheal them with my scoundrel easily, you must be doing things wrong Edited February 16, 2012 by Pattsey Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corran Posted February 16, 2012 Share Posted February 16, 2012 (edited) In reality, it can be as good or better than other healing classes, and can put out a bit more DPS at the same time, this is so far from the truth it's not funny at equivalent gear at 50 (say, full columi across the board for all 3) the commando and sage can put out more dps while healing than a scoundrel due to the scoundrel needing to be in melee range force is a non issue for a seer, so they can weave in tk throws and keep mind crush/weaken mind up at all times a commando can drop sticky grenades and hell burn 30 stacks for free charged bolts spam constantly - the stacks are rebuilt stupidly fast and csc has no cooldown. this of course only happens in 4 man content. the reality of raiding is that oftentimes ther are boss mechanics that none of them can afford to spend any time doing anything but healing, and even in this situation the sage and commando outperform the scoundrel there is no combat log, therefore the only way to know the truth is to play them yourself at level 50 in the same situations with equivalent gear. i have done this and i see the truth of the matter and where scoundrels could use a lot of love, where commandos coulse use a little love and where seers could use some toning down for parity. when logging and meters do hit i can tell you this - if nothing changes sawbones will only be taken by tight knight guilds that know their sage healer can cover their holes. Edited February 16, 2012 by Corran Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coldin Posted February 16, 2012 Share Posted February 16, 2012 Could be worse. You might be asked instead if you can actually kill your personal mini-boss in EV. Some specs of smugglers seem to have a lousy time doing enough damage to get theirs down. All depends which boss you get. If I'm healing specced, there's no way I'm getting down the maruader who has so much health. I'm not in any danger of dying, just don't have any DPS to do it. Even Scrappper spec I'll be the last one done, simply because there's no way to get a back blast on him so then you miss out of Flechette Round too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iheamylap Posted February 16, 2012 Share Posted February 16, 2012 They are just feeding off rumors. In some ways, we might not be "on par" with Sages in pure healing power, but we are far from weak healers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Azaranth Posted February 16, 2012 Share Posted February 16, 2012 I've never found an encounter that I can't heal through. I've never had a problem killing my Infernal Council target with time to spare. Haters gonna hate. Not much you can do about that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pattsey Posted February 16, 2012 Share Posted February 16, 2012 I get the feeling that Corran cant manage his energy well, which is perfectly easy imo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SliggXx Posted February 16, 2012 Share Posted February 16, 2012 I have played both Sorcerer and Scoundrel at 50 in Operations. Pure healing is definitely easier on a Sorcerer, but a Scoundrel is more fun. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kalexkhan Posted February 16, 2012 Share Posted February 16, 2012 When i'm on the assassin, i finish first every time. He has low hp but lots of dmg. I'm hybrid spec though for PVP and get to use sucker punch... I have not had to spec full healing yet, but I can definately see how I may need to at some point if they ever buff our AOE heal. Right now I get away with not needing it cause everyone knows its complete garbage in comparison to the sages. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aquadodo Posted February 17, 2012 Share Posted February 17, 2012 Nice to know there are other Scoundrel healers out there that know what they're doing I feel like I always have to prove myself to people I randomly group up with but it doesn't take long. Usually if someone complains that a Scoundrel can't keep up with healing it's because the Tank or DPS aren't doing their job properly ^_^ Does anyone use Kolto Cloud effectively? I never quite found it to be useful that often so ended up going 25/3/13 so I could get Shrap Bomb and Street Tough. I'm digging the reduced CD and energy return on Pugnacity. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corran Posted February 17, 2012 Share Posted February 17, 2012 Nice to know there are other Scoundrel healers out there that know what they're doing I feel like I always have to prove myself to people I randomly group up with but it doesn't take long. Usually if someone complains that a Scoundrel can't keep up with healing it's because the Tank or DPS aren't doing their job properly ^_^ Does anyone use Kolto Cloud effectively? I never quite found it to be useful that often so ended up going 25/3/13 so I could get Shrap Bomb and Street Tough. I'm digging the reduced CD and energy return on Pugnacity. nobody says a scoundrel cant heal effectively current non-nightmare content. they most certainly can however the other two healers can do it BETTER and no, kolto cloud is not worth it not for it's price even with 2pc pve set Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aquadodo Posted February 17, 2012 Share Posted February 17, 2012 however the other two healers can do it BETTER Maybe but when everyone in the party survives by just a thread it's way more epic I find it way more enjoyable after a fight when everyone starts clapping and saying that was some mad healing or don't know how we pulled that off...but that's just me:rolleyes: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhoenixMatrix Posted February 17, 2012 Share Posted February 17, 2012 Scoudrels are decent at keeping multiple targets up (not as good as sage, a bit better than commando), and excel at keeping up a tank in crazy situation since emergency medpack can be spammed when the tank has 7k+ hp while a sage is pretty crappy for that. The catch is, tanks defensive abilities are so insanely good in this game, that being better at healing the tank is not a very useful skill. Healing people who take splash damage, dont avoid things correctly, or get hit by bosses that do random attacks is vastly more important. Thats why smugglers, while perfectly fine on papers, have a bit more trouble in practice. That said, 2 poorly geared scoundrels can heal anything in the game at all difficulties, they just have to work harder at it. There's some rebalancing to be done, like what was done to Shadow tanks, but you're more than fine until that happens. You just done have the sage's "Push this button to succeed any hard mode ops no matter how bad the party" AOE heal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corran Posted February 17, 2012 Share Posted February 17, 2012 Maybe but when everyone in the party survives by just a thread it's way more epic I find it way more enjoyable after a fight when everyone starts clapping and saying that was some mad healing or don't know how we pulled that off...but that's just me:rolleyes: just because the content is so stupidly easy that nothing one shots tanks in this game doesnt mean scoundrel healing is wehre it should be. YOU feel this way because you have only the one character. level up the other two healers and you'll see and feel the disparity and clunkiness of scoundrel healing as i have objectivity > subjectivity Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobudo Posted February 17, 2012 Share Posted February 17, 2012 (edited) Scoudrels are decent at keeping multiple targets up (not as good as sage, a bit better than commando) Not in a good group; a good group will stay stacked up as much as possible and let the Sage's AoE do the work (this is also significantly more efficient than the Scoundrel rolling HoTs on everything). and excel at keeping up a tank in crazy situation since emergency medpack can be spammed when the tank has 7k+ hp while a sage is pretty crappy for that. This isn't true. In an emergency situation, the Sage puts a bubble on the tank, HoT, 1.5s main heal, Healing Trance . . . Spamming Emergency Medpack isn't going to counter that - without critting, Force Armor is going to absorb more damage than you heal. Also, see this post from the healer forums detailing how a Commando is far more capable at single target healing than a Scoundrel. The catch is, tanks defensive abilities are so insanely good in this game, that being better at healing the tank is not a very useful skill. Healing people who take splash damage, dont avoid things correctly, or get hit by bosses that do random attacks is vastly more important. Thats why smugglers, while perfectly fine on papers, have a bit more trouble in practice. Yes. That said, 2 poorly geared scoundrels can heal anything in the game at all difficulties, they just have to work harder at it. I don't believe this, I think Nightmare would effectively murder a 2 Scoundrel heal team; though perhaps under certain RNG and very-well geared teammates . . . still no. There's some rebalancing to be done, like what was done to Shadow tanks, but you're more than fine until that happens. You just done have the sage's "Push this button to succeed any hard mode ops no matter how bad the party" AOE heal. I disagree, but I'd wish you'd join us in the healer forums; we could really use you (and the rest of you) to raise the level of dialogue even higher. Edited February 17, 2012 by bobudo bad link Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rahl_Windsong Posted February 17, 2012 Share Posted February 17, 2012 So my issue atm is that while looking for a flashpoint during the day im being asked time after time if i can "keep up". When i ask them what that means the reply i get enrages me further.... "Sorry its just that i HEAR that smugglers are terrible healers, looking more for a sage or commando sorry" Really? i meen ouch Are we that bad? my mains are level 50 (Guardian raid dps/offtank and a commando pure dps) and i honestly havent seen many smugglers in hardmodes at all that are sawbones. Is this a issue across the board or is this isolated to my experiance? I love my smuggler alt and i enjoy the healing even though i have to work harder to attain what my friends/guidies can do with there sage/mandos. So am i rolling the wrong toon for endgame healing? The fact that i enjoy the smuggler story and combat keeps me playing the class, but if im going to be passed over alot of the time for other classes that are equally geared im worried ill end up going dps just to get some gear Any advice on this issue? like i said i love smuggler (sawbones) and will be continuing, i just want to know if this issue is being seen across the game or just in rare occations? Peace out peeps I really don't blame them for saying this because if you play a Sorc or a Sage you will see as soon as you get to level 10 that they are better healers.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
montanabrand Posted February 17, 2012 Share Posted February 17, 2012 sawbones is a jack of all trades...master of none when it comes to the healer world. I have 50 scoundrel and 47 sage. No comparison whatsoever, anyone who says scoundrel is a better all around healer is delusional or doesn't wan't to admit it. I agree scoundrel is fun due to the micromanagement, but that amounts to more work doing a simple thing like healing when u could be doing other dps stuff or whatnot. To heal with scoundrel...u.w. med...slow relz medpk...x2 pugnacity...u.w. med then your rotation roughly. ON ONE person...wanna heal someone else as their already at 1/2 health by now? same rotation roughly. On sage? force armor...heal over time insta and then the other "hot" heal. before that even though u can put force armor on 4 peeps in mere seconds and their good for that initial burst of damage. I love my scoundrel so don't go flamin' me...but by no means do I love the class for "being the best healer" in game. Sage is that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ulvsblak Posted February 17, 2012 Share Posted February 17, 2012 Could be worse. You might be asked instead if you can actually kill your personal mini-boss in EV. Some specs of smugglers seem to have a lousy time doing enough damage to get theirs down. lol i am a sawbones and kill my mini boss on nightmare mode without even dropping to below 50% health throughout the fight. I am however among the last 3 to finish...i usually finish before guardian tank Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Findulidas Posted February 17, 2012 Share Posted February 17, 2012 Bottom line is scoundrel is atleast fine as a healer. People thinking otherwise are ignorant and lazy enough to not look it up. Perhaps they failed badly as a scoundrel healer under lvl 20 or something. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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