Ask Elrathion

[Elrathion]

I did a wedding of crit/alac and power/alc. I wind up with about -2% extra crit damage, about the same crit percentage, about 40'ish extra power, and 6% extra cast speed.

 

Since I took alacrity, I went for mental alacrity which feeds on my current alacrity stat.

Basically, 1.8s cast big heals are pretty nice in pvp ,>

[ahmedhamade]

Do you have any pvp videos?

[Elrathion]

I'm not the most creative guy out there, but I can try to get some fraps done

[Kitty_Whoopass]

Best thread I've seen on the forums - I have a level 37 Seer and this is answering a lot of my questions. Thanks!

[ahmedhamade]

Thanks

 

I agree very informative thread.

[Joryk]

Can you leave a link to the 2-21-18 spec i believe it was also what gear did you buy?

[kuthroat]

I did a wedding of crit/alac and power/alc. I wind up with about -2% extra crit damage, about the same crit percentage, about 40'ish extra power, and 6% extra cast speed.

 

Since I took alacrity, I went for mental alacrity which feeds on my current alacrity stat.

Basically, 1.8s cast big heals are pretty nice in pvp ,>

 

If i wanted to play the sage for just being a healer (i have 2 dps toons), would you suggest going alacrity? How much alactriy is enough to get the big heals down?

[Elrathion]

Can you leave a link to the 2-21-18 spec i believe it was also what gear did you buy?

 

http://torguild.net/calculator/jedi-consular/sage/?p=200000000000000000032300021122022001003020302131201000000

 

Seer: 2 points in -0.5s cast time on diliverance make it [for me] a 2.3s cast time, and a 1.8s cast time mental alacrity. It's a no-brainer for survival. [Allthough my main heal in pvp is often benevolence to keep myself up in tight spots, the big heal helps with offhealing].

 

Telek tree: Why not 2 points in blackout? I wanted to put 2 points there, but all the other talents I don't wanna miss. You could consider dropping one point of telek effusion.

 

Blackout is a really underrated talent, giving 1 or 2 extra lockout seconds on key spells such as tracer missle, big sage heal, ... can really be make or break in a fight. Also the reduced cooldown on force lift has saved me many times.

 

An alterative to this build is going 1 point into momentum. Since it's bugged atm, it procs quite well for your waves which you can basically cast every 6s. However, atm I'm leaning trowards mental alacrity more because it's kind of like you have the rejuvination proc for 20s every 2 minutes, it can really determine fights more then the burst damage.

 

Balance tree is self expl. I think. Instant forcelift and POM are no brainers, you could discuss Upheavel, but I use project alot in chase situations, and I feel it helped me often to just get that last hit here to nail someone.

[Elrathion]

If i wanted to play the sage for just being a healer (i have 2 dps toons), would you suggest going alacrity? How much alactriy is enough to get the big heals down?

 

Everything above 5% alacrity is quite noticeable in casting your deliverance. It shouldn't be your main focus as a healer, but your gear will naturaly lead you to some free alacrity after the surge nerf.

[kuthroat]

Everything above 5% alacrity is quite noticeable in casting your deliverance. It shouldn't be your main focus as a healer, but your gear will naturaly lead you to some free alacrity after the surge nerf.

 

I only pvp. What gear should I be taking for pvp? the dps or the heal set?

[Lotharun]

Any opinion on the value of 2/2 for 100 more force Vs 3/3 for 9% lower cost on force abilities?

I'm leaning towards 2/2 100 more force...., this on a 21/2/18 build.

[Elrathion]

I only pvp. What gear should I be taking for pvp? the dps or the heal set?

 

Personally, I think the stalker set is the best option for you. Once you learn how powerful force potency is used at the right time, you'll pray for that extra stack and that -15s cd.

 

I know alot of other good players who chose to go 2/2 for the reduced shield cd and the mindcrush reduced cd + small heal. To me both those are lackluster compared to the stalker bonus.

[Elrathion]

Any opinion on the value of 2/2 for 100 more force Vs 3/3 for 9% lower cost on force abilities?

I'm leaning towards 2/2 100 more force...., this on a 21/2/18 build.

 

I tried that build, but I feel like the spec I quoted before [the 2-21-18] actually makes you nearly as good a "healer" because the sheer amount of utility you bring makes you able to heal very effectively. cc some people and bring on the heals.

 

Your spec makes you a soso healer [worse shields, you'll get oom because you don't have the free sacrifise, and you're a bad aoe healer], and a weak dps. Don't know why you would wanna do that, even you'll get less medals then many other specs.

 

If you really wanna heal + damage I would go 12-11-18 or 13-12-16, because rejuv + dual diliv is usually all you need to get a target back up, plus you'll still have your shields and a good dps.

 

Finally if you do chose that build I would opt for 2/2 aswell. Take an average spell force cost: 35. 9% off that would be 31.85, so like - 3 or sth. That means 33 spells to cast to catch up to that 100 force. Let's assume 50 force. 5 per spell, that's 20 spells... By then your long oom anyway

[Lotharun]

Good info. I'm trying a little bit of everything, and 21/2/18 on my list of things to try. It's nice to know that someone else has atleast tried it...worked or not. tyvm for the reply.

[SnakeAes]

Alacrity is garbage in this game. Why would you stack Power/Alacrity when you can use Power/Surge mods?

 

I don't care what the DR is on Surge, if you STACK all alacrity, you can get a 2.5s cast down to ~2.1 seconds. Wooo....

 

I bet if you dropped all your Alacrity mods, you would only see a drop of about .1-.2 seconds on Telekinetic throw. Getting more surge is vastly superior to that.

 

Bottom line is power trumps all. After power you want a decent crit rate (30-40% w/buffs is more than adequate) and then surge. Alacrity is a last resort.

 

I don't know, I disagree because I think Alacrity is incredibly important for healers. Firing off heals even fractions of seconds faster can make a huge difference, even if the amount healed is less -- because once a person's going to stay alive, I can typically heal them back up, but if someone's going to die I want to make sure they never hit zero and high Alacrity seems like the best way for me to do that.

[Elrathion]

Good info. I'm trying a little bit of everything, and 21/2/18 on my list of things to try. It's nice to know that someone else has atleast tried it...worked or not. tyvm for the reply.

 

Np ;> I think experimenting is the only way to truly learn your class and unlock it's full potential. I've quite literary spend maybe 2-3 million credits to respecs alone [if not more] ;>

[Bobbyboosted]

whats your thought about hybrid 0-13-28 in PVE and PVP?

which skill tree do you think does better in PVE for dps?

what are you adrenals/stims? ( crit/sure or power )

what was you biggest crit dammage?

[Elrathion]

whats your thought about hybrid 0-13-28 in PVE and PVP?

which skill tree do you think does better in PVE for dps?

what are you adrenals/stims? ( crit/sure or power )

what was you biggest crit dammage?

 

* Personally, I think builds with effussion are beter in both pve and pvp then builds without it because minimizing downtime is where it's at. If you're really good at force management 13-28 could put out more dps though, but if you're looking for the best in pvp as in pve id go with a heavier focus in the telek. tree.

 

* I use the power stim, because I feel I put out more damage then the crit/surge one. [Especially after the nerf, my surge is now at 75-76%, so the additional surge added can only give me a marginal gain in damage compared to the power boost]. I even used the power one pre path :pp Same story for the adrenal.

 

* My biggest crit was 5280 with FiB. This only happend once, 2 weeks ago, and I think all the stars alligned for this. I didn't even notice doing it till after I saw my 5k damage medal This is once-in-a-lifetime though, usually my max crits are 4-4.5k with everything popped. We cannot get more because unlike sorcerer, psychic suffission doesn't give 10% damage bonus to our telekenetic wav. [QQ]

 

* Post-patch, my crits are more in the 3k domain, I hardly see crits of 4k+ anymore.

[Assam]

Hello

 

I have read your excellent advice for a good Sage and I'll certainly give it a go in the future - I was wondering if you could look at this and tell me what it's main strengths were (If it has any at all! ) and how I should use them

 

I am at level 43 at the moment and I was hoping that using that tree would give me good Telekinetic advantages and at the same time giving me just a little advantage in damage reduction. Obviously the Sage is squishy and easy to kill, but I thought it couldn't hurt.

 

My purpose with this tree was simply to use the range advantage and keep chucking the Force around as much as I can whilst also having a little protection from damage.

 

I've got reasonably decent armour for my level, am keeping it as close to my character level as possible with some fairly decent mods.

 

I realise I am not the world's greatest player, I'm new to the MMO scene and have a lot to learn about tactics - I'm getting panned by level 10s in PvP its that bad!

 

I thought by using the Telekinetics Tree with a boost from Balance would be good and if you could offer any advice for what I have got I'd be most grateful

 

Cheers!

[Elrathion]

Hello

 

I have read your excellent advice for a good Sage and I'll certainly give it a go in the future - I was wondering if you could look at this and tell me what it's main strengths were (If it has any at all! ) and how I should use them

 

I am at level 43 at the moment and I was hoping that using that tree would give me good Telekinetic advantages and at the same time giving me just a little advantage in damage reduction. Obviously the Sage is squishy and easy to kill, but I thought it couldn't hurt.

 

My purpose with this tree was simply to use the range advantage and keep chucking the Force around as much as I can whilst also having a little protection from damage.

 

I've got reasonably decent armour for my level, am keeping it as close to my character level as possible with some fairly decent mods.

 

I realise I am not the world's greatest player, I'm new to the MMO scene and have a lot to learn about tactics - I'm getting panned by level 10s in PvP its that bad!

 

I thought by using the Telekinetics Tree with a boost from Balance would be good and if you could offer any advice for what I have got I'd be most grateful

 

Cheers!

 

Full telekenetics...

 

Firstoff you made a selection of some weird talents. I'll add a link to make a beter suggestion if you would decide to go full telekenetics.

 

What is the advantage of the spec? Provided you are lucky and you get alot of procs, you can very good single target damage. Playing a telekenetic sage has alot of playing like a turret. You're standing there spewing your disturbances, hoping for some procs, and placing your autocrit at the right moment.

 

What are it's problems? Usually pvp is about mobility. If you just stand there casting, people will walk up to you and stop you/kill you. While you do have good utility to run, you're basically shut down of damage until you stand still and cast again.

 

The problem with standing sill and damaging is that ALL classes in game do beter the you in this regard. A bounty hunter spamming tracer does more damage then you, any melee will poop on you, a sniper will be very close call, ...

 

So basically, the only reason to play telekenetics is fun. Why is it fun? Because occasionally everything falls into place. Instant cast telek wave crit with +50% damage multiplier [which I have to add only hits marginally harder then the one launched by POM cse you lose the +20% damage total], procs on your disturbances for extra damage, ...

 

The -2% damage talent, I've been pondering about it myself. IF we take fe. it takes 19000 damage to kill you [15800 base hp + shield], then it would basically mean an aditional 380 damage you can swollow. Ofcourse, you could get healed, etc, and then this adds up more, but still, the numbers don't compell me.

 

Lets compare that with: extra willpower --> extra chance to get a crit --> this damage gain is beter then a little damage reduction.

 

compare with extra 12% damage on your telek throw, since it can go as 4-5k total damage, you can easily see how this too is much beter then the -2% damage...

 

If you really care about your defenses that much, 2 dot crits [talented], can heal as much as your talent reduces over a long period of time. So all in all you'll understand why this isn't such a good choise.

 

Here's a telek spec:

 

http://torguild.net/calculator/jedi-consular/sage/?p=030000000000000000002310222102122131513020002000000000000

 

This spec is ofcourse debatable, but it's how I would play the spec

[Assam]

Full telekenetics...

 

Firstoff you made a selection of some weird talents. I'll add a link to make a beter suggestion if you would decide to go full telekenetics.

 

What is the advantage of the spec? Provided you are lucky and you get alot of procs, you can very good single target damage. Playing a telekenetic sage has alot of playing like a turret. You're standing there spewing your disturbances, hoping for some procs, and placing your autocrit at the right moment.

 

What are it's problems? Usually pvp is about mobility. If you just stand there casting, people will walk up to you and stop you/kill you. While you do have good utility to run, you're basically shut down of damage until you stand still and cast again.

 

The problem with standing sill and damaging is that ALL classes in game do beter the you in this regard. A bounty hunter spamming tracer does more damage then you, any melee will poop on you, a sniper will be very close call, ...

 

So basically, the only reason to play telekenetics is fun. Why is it fun? Because occasionally everything falls into place. Instant cast telek wave crit with +50% damage multiplier [which I have to add only hits marginally harder then the one launched by POM cse you lose the +20% damage total], procs on your disturbances for extra damage, ...

 

The -2% damage talent, I've been pondering about it myself. IF we take fe. it takes 19000 damage to kill you [15800 base hp + shield], then it would basically mean an aditional 380 damage you can swollow. Ofcourse, you could get healed, etc, and then this adds up more, but still, the numbers don't compell me.

 

Lets compare that with: extra willpower --> extra chance to get a crit --> this damage gain is beter then a little damage reduction.

 

compare with extra 12% damage on your telek throw, since it can go as 4-5k total damage, you can easily see how this too is much beter then the -2% damage...

 

If you really care about your defenses that much, 2 dot crits [talented], can heal as much as your talent reduces over a long period of time. So all in all you'll understand why this isn't such a good choise.

 

Here's a telek spec:

 

http://torguild.net/calculator/jedi-consular/sage/?p=030000000000000000002310222102122131513020002000000000000

 

This spec is ofcourse debatable, but it's how I would play the spec

 

Thank you very much for your advice, you've explained very succinctly where I have been going wrong - I have noticed I am having to stand still a lot to cast and unless I have people around me to fend off the enemies too I am kind of setting myself up for a decent splatting! In PvE it's mostly fine cos, they hardly move anyway!

 

I shall go forth and experiment with your ideas, they do look interesting!

 

Cheers tons again - a pint is in the post!

[Turando]

I realise I am not the world's greatest player, I'm new to the MMO scene and have a lot to learn about tactics - I'm getting panned by level 10s in PvP its that bad!

 

I am going to give you some alternative advice specifically because you are new.

 

I love to PvP, but I don't claim to be a PvP guru, but being at best an "average" PvP myself, my perspective might help.

 

I would not recommend the full TK tree for a beginner PvPer, here is why:

 

- Mobility. PvP is rarely about a 1v1 gunfight were opposing players stand still and nuke each other until one person drops. PvP is just as much about avoiding incoming damage as it is dealing damage. In the full TK tree many of your spells have cast times. This is time you cannot be doing damage and more importantly, you cannot move, and perhaps worst of all ... can be interrupted.

 

- Ease of Play. The TK tree offers some high burst, but to get that, IMO, that requires a longer, more complicated priority list of spells (from Elrathion's spec)

Disturbance (Less than 3 stacks of Concentration) - Interruptable, cannot move

Mind Crush - Interruptable, cannot move

Turbulence - Interruptable, cannot move

Telekinetic Wave (Tidal Force active)

Project

Disturbance - Interruptable, cannot move

This means you have to watch your own concentration stacks and watch for a Tidal Force proc too. It's not as long as the traditional PvE TK spec, but again, prepare to be interrupted a lot.

 

- Survivability. Let's face it, we're squishy, although properly specced we can bump ourselves to "average" survivability. So, the final reason I am not a fan of the TK build in PvP, TK has a lot of flashy animations (Disturbance and Turbulence) that bring attention to YOU. If you are focused, you will go down FAST.

 

 

So, what do I recommend for someone new to MMOs and PvP?

http://www.torhead.com/skill-calc#600ZfcM0dZcMfRsMkr.1

There are 3 points left over to put where you want, TK Defense or Mental Scarring are good options.

 

Why? Well here is your priority list

 

Force in Balance - Instant, cannot be interrupted

Weaken Mind- Instant, cannot be interrupted

Spam Telekinetic Throw

 

Wait for a Presence of Mind proc

Mind Crush - Instant, cannot be interrupted

Telekinetic Wave - Instant, cannot be interrupted

 

Project - Instant, while on the move

 

 

- Mobility. Can't get more mobile, practically all our spells are instant and can be cast while on the move.

- Ease of Play. The instants don't get interrupted, this is very nice, the list is much shorter, you only have to really watch for 1 proc. (Yes technically you should watch for Psychic Projection, but the list is so short, when you get to your TK throw rather fast so it, you basically never miss this proc).

- Survivability. Finally, IMO, surviving as a DPS sage is about going unnoticed. For me, it feels easier to be sneaky, only our TK throw gives us away which I think is a pretty benign animation.

 

I won't dispute the TK's burst abilities and/or its viability in PvP, I do think good players can perform will in this spec. Ulitimately it comes down to a style of play and what you are more comfortable playing, try it out for yourself and decide!

[Assam]

I am going to give you some alternative advice specifically because you are new.

 

I love to PvP, but I don't claim to be a PvP guru, but being at best an "average" PvP myself, my perspective might help.

 

I would not recommend the full TK tree for a beginner PvPer, here is why:

 

- Mobility. PvP is rarely about a 1v1 gunfight were opposing players stand still and nuke each other until one person drops. PvP is just as much about avoiding incoming damage as it is dealing damage. In the full TK tree many of your spells have cast times. This is time you cannot be doing damage and more importantly, you cannot move, and perhaps worst of all ... can be interrupted.

 

- Ease of Play. The TK tree offers some high burst, but to get that, IMO, that requires a longer, more complicated priority list of spells (from Elrathion's spec)

Disturbance (Less than 3 stacks of Concentration) - Interruptable, cannot move

Mind Crush - Interruptable, cannot move

Turbulence - Interruptable, cannot move

Telekinetic Wave (Tidal Force active)

Project

Disturbance - Interruptable, cannot move

This means you have to watch your own concentration stacks and watch for a Tidal Force proc too. It's not as long as the traditional PvE TK spec, but again, prepare to be interrupted a lot.

 

- Survivability. Let's face it, we're squishy, although properly specced we can bump ourselves to "average" survivability. So, the final reason I am not a fan of the TK build in PvP, TK has a lot of flashy animations (Disturbance and Turbulence) that bring attention to YOU. If you are focused, you will go down FAST.

 

 

So, what do I recommend for someone new to MMOs and PvP?

http://www.torhead.com/skill-calc#600ZfcM0dZcMfRsMkr.1

There are 3 points left over to put where you want, TK Defense or Mental Scarring are good options.

 

Why? Well here is your priority list

 

Force in Balance - Instant, cannot be interrupted

Weaken Mind- Instant, cannot be interrupted

Spam Telekinetic Throw

 

Wait for a Presence of Mind proc

Mind Crush - Instant, cannot be interrupted

Telekinetic Wave - Instant, cannot be interrupted

 

Project - Instant, while on the move

 

 

- Mobility. Can't get more mobile, practically all our spells are instant and can be cast while on the move.

- Ease of Play. The instants don't get interrupted, this is very nice, the list is much shorter, you only have to really watch for 1 proc. (Yes technically you should watch for Psychic Projection, but the list is so short, when you get to your TK throw rather fast so it, you basically never miss this proc).

- Survivability. Finally, IMO, surviving as a DPS sage is about going unnoticed. For me, it feels easier to be sneaky, only our TK throw gives us away which I think is a pretty benign animation.

 

I won't dispute the TK's burst abilities and/or its viability in PvP, I do think good players can perform will in this spec. Ulitimately it comes down to a style of play and what you are more comfortable playing, try it out for yourself and decide!

 

Thank you very much for your advice too - it is a lot of fun being new to all this and whilst I'm not too overwhelmed it is still quite an eye opener as to how wrong you can go and how the more experienced can create devastating characters as very low levels.

 

Cheers tons again - I look forward to seeing what happens to me now!

[Khadroth]

Personally, I think the stalker set is the best option for you. Once you learn how powerful force potency is used at the right time, you'll pray for that extra stack and that -15s cd.

 

I know alot of other good players who chose to go 2/2 for the reduced shield cd and the mindcrush reduced cd + small heal. To me both those are lackluster compared to the stalker bonus.

 

It's a preference thing and depends a lot on playstyle. I can't say for sure one is better than the other in all situations, after looking at it from both angles.

 

Stalker is honestly better in group queue situations where you know you can sit back and nuke because you'll have heals or even guard, you won't need the survivability as much. The downside is the accuracy mods HAVE to be swapped.

 

2p Master/2p Mystic is better for solo-queuing imo. I simply can't tell you how many times that 3 second reduction on Force Armor's debuff has saved my life. Master's bonus still helps keep you topped off, and honestly the arguments against it are as weak as the arguments against Focused Insight. Just like the potency cooldown it has substantial hidden dps increase by virtue of the CD reduction, as other than when player targets are grouping up, you should be using Mind Crush on CD since it does better DPS than TKwave.

[Turando]

2p Master/2p Mystic is better for solo-queuing imo.

 

I also prefer to the 2p Master/2p Mystic for similar reasons. The 2pc bonus on the stalker gear seemed rather meh to me.