Why not a SWG 2 instead of a similar Kotor 3?

[JagerPanzer]

Sandbox is very niche and isn't ever going to be mainstream because it requires a certain mindset (much like the RPer mindset). I tend to be a casual RPer but even I didn't like SWG. I didn't like being an average smuck in the Star Wars galaxy. I want to be heroic. That's why I like TOR more. *shrug*

 

Yup, using one's imagination in today's world is quite rare and is considered niche.

 

One didn't have to be "an average smuck [what's a smuck?] in the Star Wars galaxy" in SWG. One could be the administrator of a prosperous city, a profiteer with operations spread across planets all over the galaxy, a Jedi, a badA bounty hunter tracking Jedi across planets for hours or even days, a highly-esteemed entertainer who spread joy (and buffs), a skilled pilot that flew through enemy space with impunity and awe, or just an "average smuck" looking to earn enough credits to buy a new blaster.

 

Not everyone needs to feel "heroic." I certainly don't, at least.

[mecher]

Even from the very start you could become a jedi if you wanted to and later in the game Jedi was a starter prof.

 

Uh, what?!

 

There was NO WAY to become a Jedi at launch of SWG.

 

Just wow.... you truly are clueless.

[Wepo]

Count me as one of the thousands who are for borrowing more from SWG mechanics like BW has done with WOW. Especially space, crafting and housing. SWG incorporated more theme park and instanced stuff towards the end and there's no reason SWTOR can't incorporate more sandboxy stuff in this theme park. The best of both worlds.

 

In response to those saying SWG failed - completely incorrect. It was killed - twice. LA desire for more profits pushed NGE on unsuspecting players, as well as pulling the license last year so there was no competition with this game.

[Goretzu]

You mean that game that failed and they shut down.. consolidated servers? Lost millions of people almost instantly when they changed the game three times and was broken and should not have been launched when it did as we told (beta tester) Raph and many of the SOE team (SUP JULIO) that the product was not ready nor should be launched..

 

Only to be right in the forecasting of it shutting down of it because of its design flaws and concepts?

 

 

 

Naa... No thanks... sorry, while it had some good points it had some bad ones..

 

(this coming from a Pub 7 Unlocker Jedi and beta tester) on Bria.. I feel good about saying this....

 

 

 

If you said SWTOR shouldn't have been launched in it's current form and it shut down 9 years later...... would that make you right or wrong? I really have no idea.

[Iskareot]

Let's also not forget this:

 

 

SWG as a business model = failure (HUGE fact)

 

TOR as a business model so far = profit and success. (fact)..

 

Now, I wish SWG was better.. I more then any one of you here trust me.

 

However as I have countless emails from John S and even a old Argument with Jeff Freeman and as some even know me from the MMOPORG days... and Yivitts and Mr Bubble crap... getting kicked from all of those sites for my ranting of failure and support for SWG as it failed I cannot tell you saying I told them so was sooo nice.

 

SWG was an amazing CONCEPT from Raph.. the second he left and they wanted to push another direction is when and why your entire premise for thinking it is or would be good here is invalid.

 

There is no proof that it would and worse... there is proof that concept failed.

 

SORRY... facts are facts..

[Emeda]

Another angry whiner thinking that everyone is sharing his opinion...

 

Speak for yourself really, the majority here don't share your thoughts despite what you may think.

 

Wait someone asks a question of why WE (the people who enjoyed SWG) are here and you are somehow wanting to point out that I said WE..

 

So your another its gotta be for me or else it cant be done. I cant even answer a question that was directed towards us without making sure that it is to your liking.

 

You are the reason WoW is on the decline and you are the reason SWTOR is a failure. They made a game for players that dont give a rats azz about the game. They spent 200 million dollars on a game that will have less subs than SWG did after a year.

 

Hopefully after they see that failure they will realize if the want to make a name for themselves then go sandbox, if they only want to take everyones money then make a wow clone, just dont waste all that money in developing it because you dont have to since they care zero about the game. Just make sure they can get their shinny gear and you have a hit.

[Iskareot]

Uh, what?!

 

There was NO WAY to become a Jedi at launch of SWG.

 

Just wow.... you truly are clueless.

 

No doubt he has no idea... and yeah thus making anything he says pretty much null.

[Vlacke]

So because you disagree, their opinion is somehow invalidated?

 

Not invalidated really, it's just how some like to use plural when trying to discredit this game thinking it will add significance to their opinion, it's all "WE think, WE want etc" which is somewhat ridiculous since it's written by one person.

 

On topic:

 

SWG is dead and buried for a reason, it wasn't that good and popular obviously despite what some of it's fans think, otherwise it would still be alive and kicking, making money from the people who play it.

[Emeda]

Uh, what?!

 

There was NO WAY to become a Jedi at launch of SWG.

 

Just wow.... you truly are clueless.

 

Thats the way they play. They will make up excuses that they played the game and it sucks because they dont want a game where you have to actually work and that the ones that try harder get better items.

[sanctified]

Uh, what?!

 

There was NO WAY to become a Jedi at launch of SWG.

 

Just wow.... you truly are clueless.

 

Heh. I never even played Galaxies, and even I knew that Jedi was something you had to unlock. I followed the game online, and I remember how the guy who actually *did* accomplish the first unlocking instantly became famous. Some dutch guy playing a Zabrak, if I remember right.

[Iskareot]

If you said SWTOR shouldn't have been launched in it's current form and it shut down 9 years later...... would that make you right or wrong? I really have no idea.

 

SWTORS issues compared to SWGs launch was NOTHING remotely in comparison at all.. not even on the same planet.

 

SWG was a mess.. there is some of us here that beta'd both for a year each.... Bria was my test server and long time gaming.

 

I was there for it all.....

 

SO FAR based on business goals and moneys... this game has beaten SWG right off the bat.

 

This is a fact, not up for debate so that we know.

 

As for SWG failing... It did. Period.... no OPINION... if it was making money it would still be there.

 

This is like saying SOE would turn the game off if it wasn't making money or had subs.. (SEE EVERQUEST and let me know)...

 

Look, you do not have to be smart to know the game was in the crapper... the second they went to the CU it got shaky and then the NGE took us all out... with a brain. None the less they need to steer clear from that BUSINESS MODEL because in the end that did NOT WORK.

[MefuneAkira]

SWG lasted 8 long years for a reason.

 

SWTOR is good, but needs to implement some of the SWG options and open up, otherwise you'll just keep seeing that same word on these forums... "Boring".

 

Its still early, but honestly, how many of us are really going to keep paying $15 just to wait around to see what Bioware will do? I seriously doubt, even after all these endless "add SWG options please" threads, they will simply announce "Hey guys! We hear you and will be adding a bunch of SWG game play options in the future!" I just dont see them doing that any time soon or possibly at all, sadly.

 

Heres hoping.

[Emeda]

SWG had its Star Wars creative license pulled and was forced into shutting its doors.

 

Not sure anything else has to be said on the subject.

 

If you feel this new game could benefit from a few things SWG had, suggest it.

This game is still in its infancy developers are open to creative ideas.

 

Maybe the people can look and see when SWG closed it servers and then see when SWTOR opened it servers.

 

LA shut down SWG because they are now with SWTOR

[Nitewolfe]

The question is all on the title. Why didn't they make a new game like galaxies that offered more freedom , with nearly a billion of features that swtor will never have.

Why this "prison" small story park?

 

Very simple themepark games sell better than sandbox games.

[Iskareot]

Heh. I never even played Galaxies, and even I knew that Jedi was something you had to unlock. I followed the game online, and I remember how the guy who actually *did* accomplish the first unlocking instantly became famous. Some dutch guy playing a Zabrak, if I remember right.

 

Yep... I unlocked myself at pub 7 on Bria.. there was a small handful of us. Back then Bria was the biggest server thus making us VERY wanted as dead lol.

 

I can tell you stories of Ciner/ <Mahonra/ Myself... /Dervin and many more early unlockers.

 

None the less that is when Jedi was effort and time...planning etc..

 

I loved SWG.. but the concept failed and the backing and misc concepts added that should not have been until others were fixed FAILED>

 

Raph was a genius... but he got forced out making SWG almost go down the tubes.

 

SWG never had the numbers we already have NOW in TOR... so with that said... and money wise... SWG never made as much as we already have here.

 

Hard to compare a failed game vs one that is successful right off the bat.

 

Sorry- fact on that.

[GinnoTaki]

I think the reason is the same as in FF case - because: "a lot of players are, well… idiots." © Damion Schubert, lead systems designer, Bioware. Edited February 15, 2012 by GinnoTaki

[DarthKhaos]

I dont think people want SWG, I think they want some of the features they found great in SWG. This game is ok, it has some good points and bad points. I dont think anyone was wanting a SWG 2, but many of the features that SWG had would have been amazing in SWTOR. I dont think anyone can argue they would have been wrong to put some of those in this game.

Fair statement. Now I do like SW:TOR as is and outside the minor bugs I've experienced it had a pretty solid launch. I'd of preferred that they did not go with the trinity combat system but after they said that's what they're doing I accepted it. If I didn't want to get into another Trinity combat based game I wasn't gonna buy it. Most of the players here knew the game wasn't going to be a sandbox so this post seems pointless to me.

 

Now there are things I do think that would make this game better because quite frankly no game even years of development and player input will be perfect.

• Pazzak.
  It'll act like dueling and another player can walk up to them, right click and select view Pazzak Game to see how the match is going.
  
• Free Flight Space.
  When you launch your ship you'd go directly into space and have your fun there. I really don't need to see ships just hovering around while I'm running around questing. AFK in space please.
  
• Customizable Ships.
  Or at least the equipment you place on your ship have a visual effect like equipping armors.
  
• Improved LFG Tool.
  No cross server please.
  
• Improved UI design.
  Stuff like being able to re-size, not placing the reset button right under a drop down choice. Better/Smarter Design.
  

 

LOL Funny i feel the exact same way at 50 here i hit 50 cant run Ops or Hm Flashpoints etc etc not enough players on server..

Soooo. You're like the only level 50 on your server? Does your server load say fluffy?

 

The only difference is that SWG gave you much less from the start, so that you didn't miss it when you hit level cap.

This has to be one of the funniest thing I've ever read about SW:G.

 

I think the real question here should be: Why are the people that enjoy and want a sandbox MMO here playing SW:TOR, a game which was clearly going to fall into the theme park category from the moment it was announced, instead of one of the sandbox MMOs currently available?

 

I personally don't like the sandbox design, and think it's fundamentally flawed, but you don't see me on the EVE, PotBS, Xsyon, Darkfall, Dawntide, ArcheAge, Fallen Earth, Mortal Online, UO forums praising the qualities of WoW.

The same reason why people complain that they don't want to interact with other players in an MMO...

...

I got nothing other than they're idiots. If SW:TOR was fundamentally a game I didn't like I wasn't gonna play it. PERIOD. Some people apparantly have a vested interest in making this game seem as crappy as possible and most of their claims are overblown nonsense. They'd take a minor legitimate concern and over exaggerate it BIG TIME!

 

And those players cant have a game like that because?

 

Thats right, its because the mass mainstream believe that everything has to be for them and nothing can be made for someone else.

No it's because Businesses think the best way to make money is to sell a product the masses want. Come on people come on this forums and praise the greatness of EvE Online yet they're not there playing it. I can tell you this if I ever thought another game was better than this I'd be there and not here.

[Vlacke]

LA shut down SWG because they are now with SWTOR

 

So the fact that SWG's player base has diminished to obscure numbers because people (aside from the hard core fans who think that sandbox concept is the way to go) left the game had nothing to do with it, seriously?

[Iskareot]

SWG lasted 8 long years for a reason.

 

SWTOR is good, but needs to implement some of the SWG options and open up, otherwise you'll just keep seeing that same word on these forums... "Boring".

 

Its still early, but honestly, how many of us are really going to keep paying $15 just to wait around to see what Bioware will do? I seriously doubt, even after all these endless "add SWG options please" threads, they will simply announce "Hey guys! We hear you and will be adding a bunch of SWG game play options in the future!" I just dont see them doing that any time soon or possibly at all, sadly.

 

Heres hoping.

 

 

But based on how all of that went down and the concept of how it ran and failed NO... we can only hope they never go near that business model or concept.

 

It failed -- 8 years 50 dev team members rotated, the creator left... , winner of the worst MMO of the year award 3 years in a row or more on MMOPORG.com.. John Smedleys "MISTAKE" after the NGE and worse.. the joke of the MMO community as far as game play goes.

 

JTL was made by a different team of DEVS that came in contracted and overseen by Juilio not to mention never expanded on (key note here)..

 

ALSO known as the only GAME IN MMO history that HAD TO GIVE US ALL THAT ASKED FOR OUR MONEY BACK ON A EXPANSION they put out and had to retract charging us for it because they were almost sued for false advertising with the STAR WARS name..

 

OH YEAH LETS THINK IT WAS A GOOD PRODUCT...

 

I have a list that goes on and on... of WHY SWG failed and its concepts failed.. I have links... gamasutra posts... Dev team posts.. and so on.. emails from Smedly saying hes sorry and wished he never did this or that.. yeah I know way more.. then I should.

 

one word -

 

NGE = failure.

Edited February 15, 2012 by Iskareot

[Rigota]

Very simple themepark games sell better than sandbox games.

Your point isn't proved with SWG vs SWTOR, there are way more reasons why a game sells or not. Not only sandbox/themepark. SWTOR's overhyping and the most awesome cinematics ever helps a lot to for only 1 example. (aslo swg was late 2003 and swtor end of 2011)

 

But SWTOR a ThemePARK? In SWTOR your clearly on a train on a railtrack.

 

A Themepark and Sandbox in 1 mmorpg would be awesome.

Edited February 15, 2012 by Rigota

[Goretzu]

SWTORS issues compared to SWGs launch was NOTHING remotely in comparison at all.. not even on the same planet.

 

SWG was a mess.. there is some of us here that beta'd both for a year each.... Bria was my test server and long time gaming.

 

I was there for it all.....

 

SO FAR based on business goals and moneys... this game has beaten SWG right off the bat.

 

This is a fact, not up for debate so that we know.

 

As for SWG failing... It did. Period.... no OPINION... if it was making money it would still be there.

 

This is like saying SOE would turn the game off if it wasn't making money or had subs.. (SEE EVERQUEST and let me know)...

 

Look, you do not have to be smart to know the game was in the crapper... the second they went to the CU it got shaky and then the NGE took us all out... with a brain. None the less they need to steer clear from that BUSINESS MODEL because in the end that did NOT WORK.

 

 

 

You can't licence the same licence twice (admittely Lucasarts might like too).

[joshbyrd]

The question is all on the title. Why didn't they make a new game like galaxies that offered more freedom , with nearly a billion of features that swtor will never have.

Why this "prison" small story park?

 

No mmo comes out with all the bells and whistles attached, I.E. housing, barbershop, guild perks, etc. LOTRO and WOW have these things but they did not start out with them, and they werent implemented until a few years after release of the game. people are so used to playing games that have been out for a while and used to all these cool features but you have to understand SWTOR is in vanilla mode now, and as much as people complain and gripe about it now, a few years from now people will be looking back on vanillla TOR as "the good old days" and telling new players horror stories about how you had to do everything the hard way and how expensive it was to get speeder training in those days, we've seen it before and we'll see it again

Edited February 15, 2012 by joshbyrd

[Emeda]

SWTORS issues compared to SWGs launch was NOTHING remotely in comparison at all.. not even on the same planet.

 

SWG was a mess.. there is some of us here that beta'd both for a year each.... Bria was my test server and long time gaming.

 

I was there for it all.....

 

This game is a mess also and thats 8 years later

 

SO FAR based on business goals and moneys... this game has beaten SWG right off the bat.

 

This is a fact, not up for debate so that we know.

 

I dont care about the money I care about the game I am playing. Also you have to include the 8 years again and that there are millions of more gamers than there were back then.

 

This is also a fact , not up for debate so that we know.

 

As for SWG failing... It did. Period.... no OPINION... if it was making money it would still be there.

 

This is like saying SOE would turn the game off if it wasn't making money or had subs.. (SEE EVERQUEST and let me know)...

LA pulled the plug, why is that well lets see they have a game called SWTOR now.

Look, you do not have to be smart to know the game was in the crapper... the second they went to the CU it got shaky and then the NGE took us all out... with a brain. None the less they need to steer clear from that BUSINESS MODEL because in the end that did NOT WORK.

 

SWG was the 4th or 5th highest sub MMO in that timeframe out of 20 or so games (dont remember off hand). It wasnt in the crapper it was close to the top. Then WoW came and made every other game subs look weak. Would you call every game but WoW crap since they couldnt get 12 million subs?

 

You never tell the truth do you, your facts have nothing to do with the game.

[shdwfx]

I see the SWG fans are out in force trying to rewrite history again. The CU and NGE were in response to subscription losses. As Dan Rubenfield pointed out, they were losing 10000 subs a month. Their sub attrition outpaced the gains from new players. The SWG devs didn't realize until too late (as in within the past few years too late) that they didn't deliver a Star Wars experience, they delivered a typical sandbox with a Star Wars skin.

 

 

I can see that most people are taking your stance.

 

Most people also said it had no "content".

 

Being a beta to end player I can say the game sucked for one reason. Bugs.

 

At the end events there were still a multitude of bugs that had existed from beta. When they launched CU, the day before people had been asking ( and had been asking since launch ) for two things, fix the bugs and make mind heal-able by a profession in combat.

 

Cu took the focus off the bugs for a bit.

 

As a SWG fan those that support SOE's wonderful NGE were and are supporting a company that stole from it's community.

 

They launched Mustafar and the day after launch, two days after developer promises of fixing creature handler, droid engineer, etc they changed to the NGE.

 

That's not anything that would be considered "fixing" anything. That's flat out cheating your customers.

[Vlacke]

[*]Pazzak.

It'll act like dueling and another player can walk up to them, right click and select view Pazzak Game to see how the match is going.

[*]Free Flight Space.

When you launch your ship you'd go directly into space and have your fun there. I really don't need to see ships just hovering around while I'm running around questing. AFK in space please.

[*]Customizable Ships.

Or at least the equipment you place on your ship have a visual effect like equipping armors.

[*]Improved LFG Tool.

No cross server please.

[*]Improved UI design.

Stuff like being able to re-size, not placing the reset button right under a drop down choice. Better/Smarter Design.

 

I agree with these things, they would be welcome indeed, especially Pazaak and customizable ships.

 

I am pretty sure it will happen in time though, the UI changes and improved LFG tool are on the way as speak anyway.