Healing - the worst imbalance in PVP history, in it's current form

[Choppaman]

Can't believe how many melee in here are complaining that healers can't be killed.

 

I'm sad I never run into you guys, because the melee I run into actually know how to play and drop me.

 

Yes, I try to fake cast, but in this game doing that brings more harm than good usually because of ability delay.

 

I do CC and I do use cooldowns etc. but the melee I run into know which heal to interrupt and lock out that one. I have two casted heals, one has a cooldown and one doesn't. They wait for the latter.

 

Maybe you guys should stop sucking.

[Ewgal]

 

In the second scenario the healer has still prolonged his life. He has still healed, and healed for a lot. He has basically given himself a second life. The DPS cannot heal himself and has his same original health pool. You could argue over who has the advantage or disadvantage but the meaningful component to the balance of the equation is that the healers health pool is not potentially unlimited, it is instead very grounded and in sight of his enemy.

 

Your logic is just such a mess here. DPS can heal in SWTOR PvP. They have two mechanisms

 

1. Medpacks and other similar types of consumables.

2. class heals, for example a DPS spec smuggler can still heal.

 

While a PvP healer might have survivability their DMG burst is much lower than DPS classes. Consequently, survivability favors the DPS class in most team encounters. PvP healers have to develop skills above and beyond what they have to do in PvE just to survive long-term in SWTOR warzone system. DPS is just target and press 2-3 buttons and maybe pop a medpack.

[Kyrandis]

Healers aren't OP.

 

Tanks make them OP.

 

Trinity in MMO, when the most powerful combo in PvE comes into PvP, it gets a little out of control.

 

Healer + tank or Healer + Tanky DPS has by far the most synergy because you couple High health bars, mitigation, the ability to restore health, and the ability to reduce incoming damage. Add guard(basically warlock's soul-link) into the mix with taunt, and it takes far too many people to take down 2. And then you've add in the fact that unless they are out in the open, only melee dps really only has the capability to chase them down. Ranged DPS is lagging behind because they don't have stealth or gap closers. And then their ranged peels for their healers.

 

And now with Burst DPS nerf's you can see how hard it is to kill the healer+Tank combo.

Your Options are:

 

1. Kill the tank while he's getting healed.

2. Attempt to slowly kill the healer, who now has 20k+ HP basically.

3. Send 2-3 DPS to interrupt lock the Healer, who are getting taunted by the tank. And the healer will be playing Hard to get.

4. Hope they don't have 2 Healers+2 Tanks.

[Meiu]

I skimmed over it. There is a lot of bad logic in there. Not being mean or anything but most of those analogies don't actually hold up well when you consider the context of the situation you are trying to explain. Also, healers force you to utilize teamwork instead of SWTOR devolving into a DPS CoD style game. Btw, alluding to League of Legends is a bad idea because there is very little gameplay involved in said game.

 

If you want me to give you a superior analysis I would request you to revise what you wrote and find some better ground to stand on.

[justregularjoe]

I'm sure this will cheese off a lot of people who play healing classes. I'm well aware of the arguments that healing classes are weak, easily killed or otherwise countered.

 

Hogwash.

 

There is one inarguable fact regarding pvp healing. That is maximum potential health.

 

When you boil down PvP it becomes, at it's core, an issue of scaling.

Who does more damage. Who does more damage in a shorter period of time. Who has better gear. Who has a better build. Who has more health.

I might be able to put out 20k damage in 5 seconds. You might be able to put out 22k. I might have 23k mitigated health. You might have 19k mitigated health.

So we evaluate our battles, you decide to trade some stat or build choice over another to achieve 23k worth of damage in order to beat me. I then change my decisions somehow.

 

DPS and health are very relative numbers. They live in the same realm. You might get 2k crits, you might get 4k crits. You might have 15k health, you might have 20k health.

 

Where does healing factor into all of this? It doesn't factor in any sensible way. The reason it doesn't is because heals can achieve numbers in the hundreds of thousands of health over time.

 

To illuminate this point, lets look at PvP another way. Imagine we are in a foot race to see who is faster. A very common and rudimentary bit of human competition.

I declare to you than I can run 30 yards faster than you can run 25 yards, because I am naturally faster. Or we make a straight up equal distance challenge.

Perhaps another competition might be that I can run a further distance than you in 1 minute, or 10 minutes.

We can all agree that these are reasonable challenges that can and are made in the normal course of life.

 

A challenges which is never made however; is that I challenge that we see who can run farthest in a minute's time, with the exception that I am allowed to pause, reset or simply give myself more time on the clock than you have. So that when your minute is up, I can continue to keep running as I give myself extra seconds for however long as I wish, indefinitely.

 

While that competition would be ludicrous, it is exactly the competition that healing in PvP gives us. Now of course there are the responses such as: "this is what interrupts are for", "out-dps the healing", "focus down the healer", ect. Yes, or course these are valid tactics. These responses do not answer the real issue at all however, which is that healing is indefinite. It is like saying we will have our footrace where I can manipulate my clock, but you are allowed to try and steal my clock during the race. Sure that is a solution to the ridiculous nature of the race, but it still remains that I have the potential for unlimited time and can achieve it. Why even have such a rule in the first place?

 

To answer why is not difficult and goes to the history of the current MMO. The current MMO design of course stems from a PvE model. (Yes the early MMO's like UO had a far different design including pvp, swtor doesn't follow that model, it follows the PvE-centric model). In a PvE-centric MMO model, healing is used to keep tanks alive in boss fights. These fights last periods of time where the health of a tank is replaced numerous times by the healers. You can have a boss with hundreds of thousands of HP put out hundreds of thousands of damage. While a DPS'er might put out 200k in damage into a boss, a healer might put 200k of health into a tank. Healing generally has no limit over time and conceivably you could keep a tank alive indefinitely if it were not for things like enrage timers or regen limitations of energy. That is all well and good and easily understood by any MMO player.

 

Where things go incredibly awry however is when this design is then taken over into the PVP world. Players do not have the health of PVE bosses. The ability of a DPS'er to put out 200k of damage over time is meaningless when players only have 15k worth of health. This is our footrace of limited dimensions. Yet while a DPS's damage output ends when my healthbar reaches zero, a healers heal output is still unlimited, it never ends.

 

Yes, it can be countered. Yes, it can be balanced out with both sides healing. This isn't the point. The point is that you have one side of the equation which is unlimited.

 

To put the argument in another light. Take a great pvp game design like DOTA, HON or League or Legends. These games are actually quite similar to an MMO's pvp in that there are levels and gear for the players. Characters in these games can heal, but no character can heal for any length of time. In most cases, healing is limited to one, two or three heals during any fight. In other terms, any given character only has a potential of two to maybe three times his max health; and twice their health is a stretch. In SWTOR, if you heal someone for 100k and they never die, they are achieving 5-8 times their health.

 

So after all this analysis of the bad philosophy of the problem, what is my suggestion towards the solution?

The best way to balance any PvP system is to balance against maximum potential health. I.E. the limited footrace: we will only judge competition at a max distance of so many yards or so many minutes. The quite simple math to it would be that a character could only receive twice their max health in a 3 minute period. To even out the lower DPS potential that healers have, they might have that limitation reduced by their comparative healing or lack of dps. Hence a healer might be able to achieve 3 or 4 times their health in a 3 minute period.

 

This would mean that healing would still be able to save lives. It could still be just as powerful. But it would not be unlimited.

 

A very simple scenario to illustrate all of this is a duel. Yes, duel's are not entirely representative of group pvp. That argument is beside the point for this illustration of the philosophies involved.

 

DPS vs Healer. Healer has 15k health.

How does the DPS win? We all know. He must do enough damage, fast enough and counter the heals.

DPS does 14k worth of damage.

At this point 2 outcomes are possible.

1) The healer prevents his death and heals himself. Say he stuns the DPS and casts a 2k heal, then a 3k heal, then a couple 1k heals. At this point the DPS has lost the battle and can never recover. While his health continues to decline over time, the healers continues to increase over time. He can now never win.

2) The healer fails to overtake the DPS and eventually dies.

 

A better scenario is that at 14k worth of damage

1) the healer manages to prevent his death and heals himself up to his max potential health, giving himself a new 16k worth of life. That's the highest potential he can reach. Now the DPS must kill him all over again, but once he completes 16k worth of damage before his own death, he wins.

The healer can win, but so can the DPS.

2) The healer fails to overtake the DPS and dies at 15k health loss.

 

In the second scenario the healer has still prolonged his life. He has still healed, and healed for a lot. He has basically given himself a second life. The DPS cannot heal himself and has his same original health pool. You could argue over who has the advantage or disadvantage but the meaningful component to the balance of the equation is that the healers health pool is not potentially unlimited, it is instead very grounded and in sight of his enemy.

 

 

This must be the dumbest post I have ever seen, ever.

 

2 Good DPS can take down any healer, interrupt him, stun him, etc.

 

Not only that, but healing DOES run out----sorcs are limited by force, mercs heat, and ops Energy.

 

Your entire post is so wasteful, incompetent, and pointless, you might as well uninstall the game.

[endikux]

Incontrovertible fact: A character with 10k health can have a maximum damage done to him of 10k. At 10,001 damage he is already dead.

A team of 10 guys with 10k health each have a maximum amount of damage they can absorb of 100k.

Pretty simple.

 

If you throw healing into the mix, in its current limitless potential, then the amount of damage a team of guys or a single guy can absorb is infinite. It is not infinite because healers never run out of energy. It is not infinite because people don't know how to prevent the healing. It is infinite because there is no limit to the amount of healing a character can absorb.

The healer is not the part of the equation here. It is the healing. A person can absorb 100k worth of heals or 100,000k or 100,000,000k. It doesn't end how much they can absorb.

 

I think that is a poor mechanic to work into a pvp system.

 

It's quite sad how many people can't move beyond thinking that they are either being attacked, thinking I am complaining about my personal experience in the game, or thinking we need their advice on how to PvP better. This thread has nothing to do with any of those things.

 

MMO PvE fights are designed to last a long time. The simple question is do you think a system which is designed around fighting an unthinking scripted boss mob for 5 or 10 minutes, is just as well suited for use in player vs player combat. I don't. I think it could work better.

Edited February 15, 2012 by endikux

[Mackuss]

I completely agree OP, and I've been saying this for a while. Sadly, though, I think a lot of people are not going to get exactly what you're saying.

 

The way I used to try to get it through my idiot friend's heads is that, when you're talking about damage, you're factoring in nothing but mitigation - that is, nothing but things reducing the numbers you want to see.

 

However, when you deal with healing, there is no armor reduction against your heals - there is no hit chance for your heals, there is no inherent resistance - it's all bang for your buck - and quite a bit on top of that.

 

So, really, what it comes down to is: let's say my tooltip says "Does 222 damage". I would have to stack MULTIPLE attributes - (hit chance, expertise [if this was WoW], more attack power, more primary attribute), just to even HOPE that I'd actually hit you, and on top of that, actually see a number anywhere CLOSE to 222. Infact, it probably won't ever be anything close to 222. Ever.

 

Now, if I'm a healer, and my tooltip says "Heals for 222 hitpoints" - it's only down hill from there. Besides the often not used and often cleansed base-line healing reduction abilities out there, you're always going to see above 222 - no ifs or buts about it.

[Bnol]

I completely agree OP, and I've been saying this for a while. Sadly, though, I think a lot of people are not going to get exactly what you're saying.

 

The way I used to try to get it through my idiot friend's heads is that, when you're talking about damage, you're factoring in nothing but mitigation - that is, nothing but things reducing the numbers you want to see.

 

However, when you deal with healing, there is no armor reduction against your heals - there is no hit chance for your heals, there is no inherent resistance - it's all bang for your buck - and quite a bit on top of that.

 

So, really, what it comes down to is: let's say my tooltip says "Does 222 damage". I would have to stack MULTIPLE attributes - (hit chance, expertise [if this was WoW], more attack power, more primary attribute), just to even HOPE that I'd actually hit you, and on top of that, actually see a number anywhere CLOSE to 222. Infact, it probably won't ever be anything close to 222. Ever.

 

Now, if I'm a healer, and my tooltip says "Heals for 222 hitpoints" - it's only down hill from there. Besides the often not used and often cleansed base-line healing reduction abilities out there, you're always going to see above 222 - no ifs or buts about it.

 

Except for that whole 30% debuff to healing in PVP. Also, accuracy is a garbage stat for most classes (sorry snipers) so you gear out of that anyways and will have the same stats as a healer. Heals are also inherently weaker than damage abilities in this game just looking at the tooltips. Also, internal and elemental damage ignores armor.

Edited February 15, 2012 by Bnol

[peenenvy]

Why is every game a WoW clone. Why does the system feel the same. I mean don't get me wrong if your an investor why not go with what works for 11 million players.

 

The thing is WoW achieved something different at the time that sucked players in. Now 7-8 yrs later we are TIRED OF IT. Bio hope you got some tricks up your sleeves. I am giving this game bout 2 more months and I am done. Tired of WZs/BGs style of play, how bout some open world with objectives!

 

Anyhow the person who wrote the post, Right on bro fight the system! lol This is my two sense and I am done. Flame away.

Edited February 15, 2012 by peenenvy

[Semiskimmed]

I don't really care for the L2Play responses, but you must have terrible gear, or no idea how to play if you're complaining about healing in this game.

 

Healers suffer a 30% reduction to their heals for just BEING in pvp. Healers Heals, also do not scale with damage... Example. Primary stats + Power give MORE damage, than they do healing, and the abilities themselves do not heal for as much as the damage abilities do damage.

 

You explain an example for how the DPS does 14k damage to the healer, and then healer stuns you, heals for 2k, 3, and a couple of 1k.... You were out of the stun at the 2nd heal, so what where you doing? Also, the heal is not hurting you while he's healing himself.... So, you should still win without a problem.

 

The only way you should be dying to a healer is because they aren't actually a healer, but are a DPS specced person that has a heal, or potion, or you are fighting a healer while a DPS friend is killing you.

 

Trust me... even bad dps beats a healer 1v1... Healing only stalls for time, but will never kill you. If the healer could kill you while healing themself, it's a massive gear difference or a terrible playing... either way, a change to healing would have lead to the same result.

 

 

well said sir!

healers are a joke to take down for anyone thats actually competent and with similar gear.

PVP healing in this game is THE WORST ive ever experienced in any mmo so stop whinging...

[Mackuss]

Heals are also inherently weaker than damage abilities in this game just looking at the tooltips.

 

That, I can't argue with, but it doesn't change the reality of the system currently set up in these games, as well as in comparison to damage abilities, that's an accurate statement, but compared to other MMOs.... Just imagine when/if they buff healing slowly over time. It will be a nightmare and we'll have WoW all over again. One healer keeping 6 people up.

 

I, honestly believe the healing in THIS game did not merit this thread, as, quite honestly, I think healing (I can only speak for PvP) is CLOSEST to the most balanced healing that I have ever seen in an Action-Bar MMO.

 

You have WoW where, in the end, all that matters is the green bar (health), and the 'bang for your buck" heals that healers pump out is utterly ridiculous - a priest keeping an entire team up or, at the very least half alive. So, apply that to 2 DPS vs. one person and one healer. It's just NOT going to happen.

 

Then Rift which, though I think is a superior game to everything out at the moment, is slightly more balanced, but, as much as I don't want to say this, healers can have so many abilities due to the endless combination of talent tree combinations, that they're impossible to get to or kill in most cases.

 

Then you have this game, which, if I'm attacking a one other player with a healer healing him, I'm probably not going to kill him, or, at the very least, if I manage my resource well, it will take way too long for it to even matter - I will be dead. Which, you know, that's the way it should be.

Edited February 15, 2012 by Mackuss

[Mackuss]

Why is every game a WoW clone. Why does the system feel the same. I mean don't get me wrong if your an investor why not go with what works for 11 million players.

 

The thing is WoW achieved something different at the time that sucked players in. Now 7-8 yrs later we are TIRED OF IT. Bio hope you got some tricks up your sleeves. I am giving this game bout 2 more months and I am done. Tired of WZs/BGs style of play, how bout some open world with objectives!

 

Anyhow the person who wrote the post, Right on bro fight the system! lol This is my two sense and I am done. Flame away.

 

Or, and here's a thought for you, how about aspects of a game that aren't combat-centric. At all. Some people will pay a monthly fee, and be perfectly happy, just being a ship repairman, or something like that.

 

I feel like if they were to ever introduce furniture making in this game, you'd have to shoot and kill the furniture to make it....

 

Combat gets old when it's the only thing to do.

 

Here's what I suggest playing in the mean time man. Play Medieval: Total War 2. It's an AMAZING game with loads upon loads upon loads of more complexities than this game.

[RealAeiouy]

Incontrovertible fact: A character with 10k health can have a maximum damage done to him of 10k. At 10,001 damage he is already dead.

A team of 10 guys with 10k health each have a maximum amount of damage they can absorb of 100k.

Pretty simple.

 

If you throw healing into the mix, in its current limitless potential, then the amount of damage a team of guys or a single guy can absorb is infinite. It is not infinite because healers never run out of energy. It is not infinite because people don't know how to prevent the healing. It is infinite because there is no limit to the amount of healing a character can absorb.

The healer is not the part of the equation here. It is the healing. A person can absorb 100k worth of heals or 100,000k or 100,000,000k. It doesn't end how much they can absorb.

 

I think that is a poor mechanic to work into a pvp system.

 

It's quite sad how many people can't move beyond thinking that they are either being attacked, thinking I am complaining about my personal experience in the game, or thinking we need their advice on how to PvP better. This thread has nothing to do with any of those things.

 

MMO PvE fights are designed to last a long time. The simple question is do you think a system which is designed around fighting an unthinking scripted boss mob for 5 or 10 minutes, is just as well suited for use in player vs player combat. I don't. I think i

 

t could work better.

 

So what you are saying is "healing makes it so teams have to use steategy and teamwork in pvp and not just mindless dps". To sum it up healing improves warzones signigicantly. I agree with you. Both teams might have healers so teams need to coordinate in order to remove or dimish healing.

 

Also the one point you keep harping on about unlimited healing is horribly flawed. A healer can only heal at a certain rate. Pretty quickly dps out measures the healing and the regeneration of power for healers becomes absolutely irrelevant

 

It really does seem like you are missing some fundamental understanding how mmog and swtor combat/pvp works and particular how healing works.

 

The basis for your complaint on healing is not correct and that is why everyone is dismissing you. Healers can not just endlessly heal unless the entire other team ignores them, yet your whole complaint is based on endless healing.

 

When you rant about something nobody is experiencing in game and which likely comes from you mischaracterizing other mechanics, like medpacs, abilities, multiple healers, guard and taunt then people go into ridicule mode.

 

Yes we all agree if nobody on the opposing team ever attacks a healer they can heal forever. However that is literally the only scenario where you complaint is valid. Since balance should not be based on people playing as poorly as possible, your rant and this thread become pointless.

 

I know for some reason you think you have some keen insight on this and we all just don't understand but go roll a healer, the most overpowered healing spec you can find and actually play it.

[Redmarx]

I can't put it any simpler than this.

 

They should not change the game around the fact that you're a terrible player.

 

PVP healing is actually slightly weak on the burst HPS side. DPS scales higher and with interrupts and CC, healers are very easy to shut down and kill. The healer's team needs to work very hard on keeping pressure/cc/peels up to keep their healer alive. This is assuming competent teamplayers on both sides.

Edited February 15, 2012 by Redmarx

[RealAeiouy]

I completely agree OP, and I've been saying this for a while. Sadly, though, I think a lot of people are not going to get exactly what you're saying.

 

The way I used to try to get it through my idiot friend's heads is that, when you're talking about damage, you're factoring in nothing but mitigation - that is, nothing but things reducing the numbers you want to see.

 

However, when you deal with healing, there is no armor reduction against your heals - there is no hit chance for your heals, there is no inherent resistance - it's all bang for your buck - and quite a bit on top of that.

 

So, really, what it comes down to is: let's say my tooltip says "Does 222 damage". I would have to stack MULTIPLE attributes - (hit chance, expertise [if this was WoW], more attack power, more primary attribute), just to even HOPE that I'd actually hit you, and on top of that, actually see a number anywhere CLOSE to 222. Infact, it probably won't ever be anything close to 222. Ever.

 

Now, if I'm a healer, and my tooltip says "Heals for 222 hitpoints" - it's only down hill from there. Besides the often not used and often cleansed base-line healing reduction abilities out there, you're always going to see above 222 - no ifs or buts about it.

 

 

 

All of that is entirely irrelevant as both sides are balanced with those in mind. Healing and damage are not on a balance teeter totter, they can both be adjusted entirely seperate from each other to achieve the desired results. That damage is mitigated and healing is not means nothing.

[-sasori]

I'm sure this will cheese off a lot of people who play healing classes. I'm well aware of the arguments that healing classes are weak, easily killed or otherwise countered.

 

Hogwash.

 

There is one inarguable fact regarding pvp healing. That is maximum potential health.

**shortened***.

 

I don't agree. You compare DPS / Health ratio between TWO DPS as natural and "Heal" as outside factor which ruins your equation.

 

 

Now i will tell you Absorbtion / DPS / HPS to Health are the natural equation in PVP because we naturally got THREE types of factors not only one to health.

 

THE HOLY TRINITY. Ever heard of it? How can healing be an alien factor? And Protection / Absorbtion not even appear on your PVP formular?

 

 

I think you are just raging about heals because you feel self entitled as a DPS to free kill anyone who has less DPS to health ratio as you do.

 

But following your argument, shouldn't Tanks get always free kills on DPS because they got a better ratio? A tank is some bully kid always pushing you back on your little competition racetrack.

 

Strange how they do not appear on your argument.

Edited February 15, 2012 by -sasori

[Bnol]

That, I can't argue with, but it doesn't change the reality of the system currently set up in these games, as well as in comparison to damage abilities, that's an accurate statement, but compared to other MMOs.... Just imagine when/if they buff healing slowly over time. It will be a nightmare and we'll have WoW all over again. One healer keeping 6 people up.

 

I, honestly believe the healing in THIS game did not merit this thread, as, quite honestly, I think healing (I can only speak for PvP) is CLOSEST to the most balanced healing that I have ever seen in an Action-Bar MMO.

 

If you think healing is in a good spot, I am not sure why you are completely agreeing with the OP. Also, I am not sure why you think healing will be buffed over time for no reason other than to make healing OP as it is in other games. I fully agree that healing in WoW was OP, but healing in this game is really balanced.

[Ewgal]

The danger with PvP is that DPS becomes overpowered leading to new 50 players being killed in 1-2 sec by the seasoned vets. Healing is one of the ways to prevent players lasting very little time in the warzones. Most healers are kill on sight, so really they need all the help they can get, since to heal well in war zones takes a great deal of skill right now. It isn't just pumping out heals, it's very much survival too against the seasoned pros out there now.

[zoofar]

I'm sure this will cheese off a lot of people who play healing classes.

...

...

it is instead very grounded and in sight of his enemy.

 

I'm not sure I got your point exactly, but I get the feel your thinking too much in the way of absolute numbers rather than throughput.

 

In 1v1 for ex, to beat a healer, a dps must have on the average over the Length of Battle

 

Damage per Sec of DD > Heals Per Sec of Healer (assuming equal health)

AND ofc

Damage Dude must survive the small(?) dps of the Healer

 

Both DD and Healers have tools at their disposal to affect/alter the opponents HpS/DpS. Interrupts, Stuns etc...

 

 

The point is, it doesn't matter if a Healer has "infinte" health. He only has "infinte" health when his HpS > incoming DpS

 

 

Not sure I got you right as said, but that's my response if you meant what I thought you said

Edited February 15, 2012 by zoofar

[DariuszPol]

Simple. I never kill healers. I make them busy. Simple as that. Healers stay in second line and heal their teammates.

As stealth class I just go for healer and attack him. 2 things happen.

 

1. Our healer heals and he is still healing and in few seconds he is dead and we are winning

2. He heal himself while our healer heal us so we still win and kill healer at the end

 

There is ONLY 1 PROBLEM WITH HEALERS. They heal a loot and sometimes they outheal DPS (one son of a bi... was able to live even while 5 people was attacking him for quite some time compare to other classess). That dosen't make them better. It's just I must take more time to kill a healer and because of that he often get help.

Because of that I don't attack solo healers. It's waste of time. I only attack them to prevent him from healing team mates.

 

Open PVP is different thing. I attack healers and kill them. Always. They are no match for DPS or tank. They can survive more but they will still die. And I don't have time limit on my Operative since every use of shiv grand me tactical advantage and 5% buff to dmg. And before tactical advantage wear off I use energy regeneration that restore energy for 45s.

[pavelmatejka]

I play as healer and I love the pvp 1vs1 balance. I can be defeated by 1 dps if he has skill but I stress the importance ot this he doesnt have a free kill and he can die fighting me. Is that so bad? In my experience I cant just stand in one place and cast heals/dps I need to work for it I need to move get out of line of sight fakecast to trick him into interupting my non heal abbilities rather than healz. I mett players in fights who can kill me some cant is that simple. Just just accept the chalenge. Do you realy need the oh theres a healer hes dead no matter what he does ha I feel so great and powerful!

[RadialBasis]

That was a very long post, so I didn't read all of it as I don't have a problem with healing (although some of them seem to never die). I have one comment though (maybe someone else already pointed it out). The op states that:

 

The point is that you have one side of the equation which is unlimited.

 

Which is simply not true. Damage dealing is also unlimited over infinite time. Moreover, both dps and hps are constrained.

[KyoMamoru]

The main issue is that healing requires very little effort to do in regards to team tactics, while stopping it is significantly harder. Let's assume a typical situation

 

Squad A) Guarded Healer + Tank.

Squad B) DPS + DPS

 

The Optimal solution is that one DPS stuns the tank [to prevent taunts], while the other interrupts the Healer, and begins to dps. The second DPS then joins and interrupts the second heal attempt while dpsing. Once the tank is unstunned [3-4 gcds], the first DPS goes and uses his stun on him again before turning back to the Healer to DPS. During this time, it is important that if they have any dots that require GCD to place them on both the Healer and the tank.

 

The issue is, it is substantially harder to have two dps players operate efficiently in tandem without pushing the Healer into Resolve or wasting their interrupt on the same move; however the Healer/Tank combo merely spams taunts and heals without the use of any planning prior. It's ever so important that the tank cannot get his taunts out, since those are the true damage killers once factored into Guard. Everyone blows their best abilities at the start of the fight, and so a burst can become a joke after a taunt.

 

Even still, the easiest strategy is to always dot the healer, dot the Tank, and AOE. The tank will receive damage 1.5x the usual damage from the dots, while still taking the damage that is being handed to him from the healer. As a Hybrid Operative Healer, I can have 7k worth of dots [ticks done in 20 seconds] on the Healer and Tank within 3 global cooldowns. As long as others are focusing down the healer, the tank won't be able to receive the attention he needs. By placing dots first, you vastly ignore the damage reduction of taunts as well.

 

Just like in Team Fortress 2, Medic + Heavy > PUB Teams. They'll dominant, since it requires coordinated tactics to defeat the synergy.

Edited February 15, 2012 by KyoMamoru

[Vordy]

I love how a discussion of a mechanic which differs from the norm is always answered with "you suck".

 

At least you took the time to read something. It's a pretty sad commentary on the level of intelligence today when there is an acronym for something being too long to hold someone's 3rd grade attention span.

 

My scenario is very simplified and the details of the combat are meaningless. The overall point is entirely true. A healer can outheal a dps while taking down his life. Maybe you can avoid this in every one of your fights, but you aren't every dps character in the game. If you are contending that every character type in the game can defeat every healer type in the game "if he knows what he is doing", then that is a very tall claim to make.

 

Well, some people do clearly suck when they say something is inbalanced, if you cant kill a healer than you probably dont have a full champion set yet which means you shouldnt qq until you have one...

[Viree]

The goal of PvP balance is to always want the better PLAYER.

 

Not healer/dps/class/spec.

 

Only way that will ever be achievable is if they scale all equipment to be exactly equivalent. And then fix any inconsistencies with class damage/heal abilities.

 

And that will never happen.