Healing - the worst imbalance in PVP history, in it's current form

[endikux]

I'm sure this will cheese off a lot of people who play healing classes. I'm well aware of the arguments that healing classes are weak, easily killed or otherwise countered.

 

Hogwash.

 

There is one inarguable fact regarding pvp healing. That is maximum potential health.

 

When you boil down PvP it becomes, at it's core, an issue of scaling.

Who does more damage. Who does more damage in a shorter period of time. Who has better gear. Who has a better build. Who has more health.

I might be able to put out 20k damage in 5 seconds. You might be able to put out 22k. I might have 23k mitigated health. You might have 19k mitigated health.

So we evaluate our battles, you decide to trade some stat or build choice over another to achieve 23k worth of damage in order to beat me. I then change my decisions somehow.

 

DPS and health are very relative numbers. They live in the same realm. You might get 2k crits, you might get 4k crits. You might have 15k health, you might have 20k health.

 

Where does healing factor into all of this? It doesn't factor in any sensible way. The reason it doesn't is because heals can achieve numbers in the hundreds of thousands of health over time.

 

To illuminate this point, lets look at PvP another way. Imagine we are in a foot race to see who is faster. A very common and rudimentary bit of human competition.

I declare to you than I can run 30 yards faster than you can run 25 yards, because I am naturally faster. Or we make a straight up equal distance challenge.

Perhaps another competition might be that I can run a further distance than you in 1 minute, or 10 minutes.

We can all agree that these are reasonable challenges that can and are made in the normal course of life.

 

A challenges which is never made however; is that I challenge that we see who can run farthest in a minute's time, with the exception that I am allowed to pause, reset or simply give myself more time on the clock than you have. So that when your minute is up, I can continue to keep running as I give myself extra seconds for however long as I wish, indefinitely.

 

While that competition would be ludicrous, it is exactly the competition that healing in PvP gives us. Now of course there are the responses such as: "this is what interrupts are for", "out-dps the healing", "focus down the healer", ect. Yes, or course these are valid tactics. These responses do not answer the real issue at all however, which is that healing is indefinite. It is like saying we will have our footrace where I can manipulate my clock, but you are allowed to try and steal my clock during the race. Sure that is a solution to the ridiculous nature of the race, but it still remains that I have the potential for unlimited time and can achieve it. Why even have such a rule in the first place?

 

To answer why is not difficult and goes to the history of the current MMO. The current MMO design of course stems from a PvE model. (Yes the early MMO's like UO had a far different design including pvp, swtor doesn't follow that model, it follows the PvE-centric model). In a PvE-centric MMO model, healing is used to keep tanks alive in boss fights. These fights last periods of time where the health of a tank is replaced numerous times by the healers. You can have a boss with hundreds of thousands of HP put out hundreds of thousands of damage. While a DPS'er might put out 200k in damage into a boss, a healer might put 200k of health into a tank. Healing generally has no limit over time and conceivably you could keep a tank alive indefinitely if it were not for things like enrage timers or regen limitations of energy. That is all well and good and easily understood by any MMO player.

 

Where things go incredibly awry however is when this design is then taken over into the PVP world. Players do not have the health of PVE bosses. The ability of a DPS'er to put out 200k of damage over time is meaningless when players only have 15k worth of health. This is our footrace of limited dimensions. Yet while a DPS's damage output ends when my healthbar reaches zero, a healers heal output is still unlimited, it never ends.

 

Yes, it can be countered. Yes, it can be balanced out with both sides healing. This isn't the point. The point is that you have one side of the equation which is unlimited.

 

To put the argument in another light. Take a great pvp game design like DOTA, HON or League or Legends. These games are actually quite similar to an MMO's pvp in that there are levels and gear for the players. Characters in these games can heal, but no character can heal for any length of time. In most cases, healing is limited to one, two or three heals during any fight. In other terms, any given character only has a potential of two to maybe three times his max health; and twice their health is a stretch. In SWTOR, if you heal someone for 100k and they never die, they are achieving 5-8 times their health.

 

So after all this analysis of the bad philosophy of the problem, what is my suggestion towards the solution?

The best way to balance any PvP system is to balance against maximum potential health. I.E. the limited footrace: we will only judge competition at a max distance of so many yards or so many minutes. The quite simple math to it would be that a character could only receive twice their max health in a 3 minute period. To even out the lower DPS potential that healers have, they might have that limitation reduced by their comparative healing or lack of dps. Hence a healer might be able to achieve 3 or 4 times their health in a 3 minute period.

 

This would mean that healing would still be able to save lives. It could still be just as powerful. But it would not be unlimited.

 

A very simple scenario to illustrate all of this is a duel. Yes, duel's are not entirely representative of group pvp. That argument is beside the point for this illustration of the philosophies involved.

 

DPS vs Healer. Healer has 15k health.

How does the DPS win? We all know. He must do enough damage, fast enough and counter the heals.

DPS does 14k worth of damage.

At this point 2 outcomes are possible.

1) The healer prevents his death and heals himself. Say he stuns the DPS and casts a 2k heal, then a 3k heal, then a couple 1k heals. At this point the DPS has lost the battle and can never recover. While his health continues to decline over time, the healers continues to increase over time. He can now never win.

2) The healer fails to overtake the DPS and eventually dies.

 

A better scenario is that at 14k worth of damage

1) the healer manages to prevent his death and heals himself up to his max potential health, giving himself a new 16k worth of life. That's the highest potential he can reach. Now the DPS must kill him all over again, but once he completes 16k worth of damage before his own death, he wins.

The healer can win, but so can the DPS.

2) The healer fails to overtake the DPS and dies at 15k health loss.

 

In the second scenario the healer has still prolonged his life. He has still healed, and healed for a lot. He has basically given himself a second life. The DPS cannot heal himself and has his same original health pool. You could argue over who has the advantage or disadvantage but the meaningful component to the balance of the equation is that the healers health pool is not potentially unlimited, it is instead very grounded and in sight of his enemy.

[Stradoo]

I'm sure this will cheese off a lot of people who play healing classes. I'm well aware of the arguments that healing classes are weak, easily killed or otherwise countered.

 

Hogwash.

 

There is one inarguable fact regarding pvp healing. That is maximum potential health.

 

When you boil down PvP it becomes, at it's core, an issue of scaling.

Who does more damage. Who does more damage in a shorter period of time. Who has better gear. Who has a better build. Who has more health.

I might be able to put out 20k damage in 5 seconds. You might be able to put out 22k. I might have 23k mitigated health. You might have 19k mitigated health.

So we evaluate our battles, you decide to trade some stat or build choice over another to achieve 23k worth of damage in order to beat me. I then change my decisions somehow.

 

DPS and health are very relative numbers. They live in the same realm. You might get 2k crits, you might get 4k crits. You might have 15k health, you might have 20k health.

 

Where does healing factor into all of this? It doesn't factor in any sensible way. The reason it doesn't is because heals can achieve numbers in the hundreds of thousands of health over time.

 

To illuminate this point, lets look at PvP another way. Imagine we are in a foot race to see who is faster. A very common and rudimentary bit of human competition.

I declare to you than I can run 30 yards faster than you can run 25 yards, because I am naturally faster. Or we make a straight up equal distance challenge.

Perhaps another competition might be that I can run a further distance than you in 1 minute, or 10 minutes.

We can all agree that these are reasonable challenges that can and are made in the normal course of life.

 

A challenges which is never made however; is that I challenge that we see who can run farthest in a minute's time, with the exception that I am allowed to pause, reset or simply give myself more time on the clock than you have. So that when your minute is up, I can continue to keep running as I give myself extra seconds for however long as I wish, indefinitely.

 

While that competition would be ludicrous, it is exactly the competition that healing in PvP gives us. Now of course there are the responses such as: "this is what interrupts are for", "out-dps the healing", "focus down the healer", ect. Yes, or course these are valid tactics. These responses do not answer the real issue at all however, which is that healing is indefinite. It is like saying we will have our footrace where I can manipulate my clock, but you are allowed to try and steal my clock during the race. Sure that is a solution to the ridiculous nature of the race, but it still remains that I have the potential for unlimited time and can achieve it. Why even have such a rule in the first place?

 

To answer why is not difficult and goes to the history of the current MMO. The current MMO design of course stems from a PvE model. (Yes the early MMO's like UO had a far different design including pvp, swtor doesn't follow that model, it follows the PvE-centric model). In a PvE-centric MMO model, healing is used to keep tanks alive in boss fights. These fights last periods of time where the health of a tank is replaced numerous times by the healers. You can have a boss with hundreds of thousands of HP put out hundreds of thousands of damage. While a DPS'er might put out 200k in damage into a boss, a healer might put 200k of health into a tank. Healing generally has no limit over time and conceivably you could keep a tank alive indefinitely if it were not for things like enrage timers or regen limitations of energy. That is all well and good and easily understood by any MMO player.

 

Where things go incredibly awry however is when this design is then taken over into the PVP world. Players do not have the health of PVE bosses. The ability of a DPS'er to put out 200k of damage over time is meaningless when players only have 15k worth of health. This is our footrace of limited dimensions. Yet while a DPS's damage output ends when my healthbar reaches zero, a healers heal output is still unlimited, it never ends.

 

Yes, it can be countered. Yes, it can be balanced out with both sides healing. This isn't the point. The point is that you have one side of the equation which is unlimited.

 

To put the argument in another light. Take a great pvp game design like DOTA, HON or League or Legends. These games are actually quite similar to an MMO's pvp in that there are levels and gear for the players. Characters in these games can heal, but no character can heal for any length of time. In most cases, healing is limited to one, two or three heals during any fight. In other terms, any given character only has a potential of two to maybe three times his max health; and twice their health is a stretch. In SWTOR, if you heal someone for 100k and they never die, they are achieving 5-8 times their health.

 

So after all this analysis of the bad philosophy of the problem, what is my suggestion towards the solution?

The best way to balance any PvP system is to balance against maximum potential health. I.E. the limited footrace: we will only judge competition at a max distance of so many yards or so many minutes. The quite simple math to it would be that a character could only receive twice their max health in a 3 minute period. To even out the lower DPS potential that healers have, they might have that limitation reduced by their comparative healing or lack of dps. Hence a healer might be able to achieve 3 or 4 times their health in a 3 minute period.

 

This would mean that healing would still be able to save lives. It could still be just as powerful. But it would not be unlimited.

 

A very simple scenario to illustrate all of this is a duel. Yes, duel's are not entirely representative of group pvp. That argument is beside the point for this illustration of the philosophies involved.

 

DPS vs Healer. Healer has 15k health.

How does the DPS win? We all know. He must do enough damage, fast enough and counter the heals.

DPS does 14k worth of damage.

At this point 2 outcomes are possible.

1) The healer prevents his death and heals himself. Say he stuns the DPS and casts a 2k heal, then a 3k heal, then a couple 1k heals. At this point the DPS has lost the battle and can never recover. While his health continues to decline over time, the healers continues to increase over time. He can now never win.

2) The healer fails to overtake the DPS and eventually dies.

 

A better scenario is that at 14k worth of damage

1) the healer manages to prevent his death and heals himself up to his max potential health, giving himself a new 16k worth of life. That's the highest potential he can reach. Now the DPS must kill him all over again, but once he completes 16k worth of damage before his own death, he wins.

The healer can win, but so can the DPS.

2) The healer fails to overtake the DPS and dies at 15k health loss.

 

In the second scenario the healer has still prolonged his life. He has still healed, and healed for a lot. He has basically given himself a second life. The DPS cannot heal himself and has his same original health pool. You could argue over who has the advantage or disadvantage but the meaningful component to the balance of the equation is that the healers health pool is not potentially unlimited, it is instead very grounded and in sight of his enemy.

 

 

TMTR, but thanks!

[problemfix]

TMTR

 

so here ya go

 

http://oi41.tinypic.com/euim81.jpg

[Dackius]

I don't really care for the L2Play responses, but you must have terrible gear, or no idea how to play if you're complaining about healing in this game.

 

Healers suffer a 30% reduction to their heals for just BEING in pvp. Healers Heals, also do not scale with damage... Example. Primary stats + Power give MORE damage, than they do healing, and the abilities themselves do not heal for as much as the damage abilities do damage.

 

You explain an example for how the DPS does 14k damage to the healer, and then healer stuns you, heals for 2k, 3, and a couple of 1k.... You were out of the stun at the 2nd heal, so what where you doing? Also, the heal is not hurting you while he's healing himself.... So, you should still win without a problem.

 

The only way you should be dying to a healer is because they aren't actually a healer, but are a DPS specced person that has a heal, or potion, or you are fighting a healer while a DPS friend is killing you.

 

Trust me... even bad dps beats a healer 1v1... Healing only stalls for time, but will never kill you. If the healer could kill you while healing themself, it's a massive gear difference or a terrible playing... either way, a change to healing would have lead to the same result.

[Dahoff]

Focus fire the healer. Happens to me all of the time.

[endikux]

I love how a discussion of a mechanic which differs from the norm is always answered with "you suck".

 

At least you took the time to read something. It's a pretty sad commentary on the level of intelligence today when there is an acronym for something being too long to hold someone's 3rd grade attention span.

 

My scenario is very simplified and the details of the combat are meaningless. The overall point is entirely true. A healer can outheal a dps while taking down his life. Maybe you can avoid this in every one of your fights, but you aren't every dps character in the game. If you are contending that every character type in the game can defeat every healer type in the game "if he knows what he is doing", then that is a very tall claim to make.

[Ahhmyface]

I agree with the OP. The problem I see is that energy/mana regeneration is far too high. It's fine to have a pool that can extend the health of your team mates or yourself.... but with the speed of regeneration, a healer can heal, literally, indefinitely.

 

My dps, is quite frankly, insane. But, if you've ever had the pleasure to 1v1 a competent healer, no matter your class, or spec, you know this. An aoe heal hits the ground, as you burn a stim here, a relic there, a warzone expertise buff, a cooldown, you land a few crits, the healer continues to heal. When you are all out of tricks, they turn on you with their wifflebat and beat you down. I've 1v1ed healers in battles that lasted 5 minutes. I beat them through 10 bars of health, and they beat me through 1, and I lose. I have a 10 second interrupt, a knockback, and 2 4 second stuns. And it's still not enough to prevent them from giving themselves gobs of health back easily. For the record, I'm not saying I should win. But I'm saying if I had 5 million hp, the healer could still beat me, because his heals are greater than my dps.

Edited February 14, 2012 by Ahhmyface

[Sylvannus]

I want my five minutes back, you owe me five minutes.

 

Are you really complaining about healing in PVP? Truly?

 

If you have such a huge problem with healers doing what they do, then dont fight them.

[EternalFinality]

To put the argument in another light. Take a great pvp game design like DOTA, HON or League or Legends. These games are actually quite similar to an MMO's pvp in that there are levels and gear for the players. Characters in these games can heal, but no character can heal for any length of time. In most cases, healing is limited to one, two or three heals during any fight. In other terms, any given character only has a potential of two to maybe three times his max health; and twice their health is a stretch. In SWTOR, if you heal someone for 100k and they never die, they are achieving 5-8 times their health.

 

This is actually the best point in the sea of text, and one that I agree with. Heals should be infrequent and powerful. But MMO PvP is simply a slapdash conversion of the PvE system, which works for PvE, but rarely produces a compelling PvP experience of the same quality.

 

Dota was desinged for PvP, and it shows.

[Aroidan]

If you took an equally skilled and geared DPS against a Healer and had them fight 100 times the match should end at a 50 50 draw. That is pretty much the definition of balance. I also imagine that if we had damage logs and what not we would find that this is probably pretty close to accurate.

 

In essence the fight would end because one person rolled better. There have been several fights that I have faced against healers that have lasted 5 minutes or longer. I tend to win about half of those and we are usually both near death by the end of it. Then there are healers that outgear me significantly and I get spanked and healers that are under geared which I spank.

 

The problem really just becomes the gear in the PvP system throwing off the 0 balance. Also the tank vs the healer gets to be an interesting scenario. I find that no one dies there. The healer can't deal enough damage to get through my damage reduction and I can't deal enough damage to burn them out of heals

[Mrip]

Your race example doesn't work because the healer requires a dps to be successful. In addition, the healer puts out no, or massively diminished, damage while the "other team" is putting out twice the damage, or say running twice as fast or something like that. You neeed to account for the other side having more firepower because they lack a healer. You'd need some sort of team-based example with multiple people on both teams. It's really pretty complicated. Edited February 14, 2012 by Mrip

[Dackius]

So you think healing should be limited, so you can only heal say.... as often as you could use a medpack? Then Healing has no purpose. And healing builds are no long valid for pvp in way shape for form.

 

YES, ANY DPS CAN BEAT ANY HEALER in 1v1 with equal gear. ANY!!!!! I will point out again, healers get a 30% reduction for pvp on top of the already less proportional +heal vs +damage from abilities.

 

2nd, Healing is not unlimited, and you're footrace example has no bearing at all on this discussion. There is no foot race, and it's a measure of how can run father in a time period. It's a measure of you can depleat the others resource (life) faster. Healers can take time from depleating your life, to restore their own... you can do (although on a more limited basis) with medipacks, etc.

 

You've obviously never played a healer either, or you know that their healing is far from unlimited... especially in pvp.

 

I am very curious though... have you ever actually just dueled with a healer to see who wins 1v1? Taken a look at what one healer alone can actually do against a dps?

 

Their dps is a joke, and heals in this game weak. Heck, the game ever punishs them by holding the to the same standards for rewards.... Healing medals exist at 2.5k healed in one heal, or 5K healed in one heal.... 75K healing is the next medal. I'll remind you, there is no credit given for over heals. So a healer looking to get a 75k healing medal actually has to hunt down players injured and heal them... they can't just spam it on themselves without dancing in and out of the acid pit/hutt ball fire, or using other abilities, which is just asking for a DPS to one shot them.

 

I am not saying you suck... although you may, I don't know .... I am saying you might not be seeing everything going on, or might need better gear if you are having trouble steam rolling over a healer. Because by your logic, Healers shouldn't need tanks for PvE, they can just heal through anything, while killing their enemy, but all know that's not true.

[Fancyhuh]

Wall of text crits healer for 20k, healer dies.

 

Think you solved your problem!

[endikux]

The problem I see is that energy/mana regeneration is far too high. It's fine to have a pool that can extend the health of your team mates or yourself.... but with the speed of regeneration, a healer can heal, literally, indefinitely.

 

I can't disagree with this. Even tho it theoretically still contains indefinite healing, the availability of energy to heal is another factor that could be addressed to also solve the problem.

 

I think changing energy regen in pvp is fraught with more design peril and can cause even more balance/unbalance issues; but that doesn't mean it couldn't be designed to also work toward the same end if done right.

[SliggXx]

I don't know what the OP is complaining about. I love the idea that taking down a healer in PvP requires either really focused, superior single target DPS or focus fire DPS from multiple attackers. It makes PvP more strategic. One mediocre DPS class shouldn't be able to take down even a bad healer.

[RealAeiouy]

Op,

 

It seems like this is your first mmog. That is a pretty long and rambling rant against healing.

[CupieFoxtail]

The hyperbole in the thread title is doing you no favors.

[Choppaman]

I agree with the OP. The problem I see is that energy/mana regeneration is far too high. It's fine to have a pool that can extend the health of your team mates or yourself.... but with the speed of regeneration, a healer can heal, literally, indefinitely.

 

My dps, is quite frankly, insane. But, if you've ever had the pleasure to 1v1 a competent healer, no matter your class, or spec, you know this. An aoe heal hits the ground, as you burn a stim here, a relic there, a warzone expertise buff, a cooldown, you land a few crits, the healer continues to heal. When you are all out of tricks, they turn on you with their wifflebat and beat you down. I've 1v1ed healers in battles that lasted 5 minutes. I beat them through 10 bars of health, and they beat me through 1, and I lose. I have a 10 second interrupt, a knockback, and 2 4 second stuns. And it's still not enough to prevent them from giving themselves gobs of health back easily. For the record, I'm not saying I should win. But I'm saying if I had 5 million hp, the healer could still beat me, because his heals are greater than my dps.

 

If any ol' idiot DPS could beat a well-geared and well-played healer, well, why would absolutely anyone want to play as a healer?

 

And in this game healers aren't that strong. Maras rip apart healers, assassins do as well. If a healer can't LOS a sniper, they'll die to them too. Ops can beat up on healers.

 

So in short, what you and the OP are suggesting is that anyone should be able to kill a healer on demand, which means that not only can a healer not assist themselves, but they also cannot assist anyone on their team. Why bring a healer if their heals would be useless?

 

 

No one would.

 

Edited February 14, 2012 by Choppaman

[Bnol]

Hyperbole in title-check

Rambling wall of text- check

over-generalization- check

not accounting for CC/interrupts- check

using 1v1 as an example - check

 

Yep, another quality post on the PVP boards.

[endikux]

Because by your logic, Healers shouldn't need tanks for PvE, they can just heal through anything, while killing their enemy, but all know that's not true.

 

I think a lot of people are misconstruing my post to be an attack on healers when it is not. It is an attack on healing.

 

When I speak of a 1on1 dual it involves a healer of course; but this is just because I'm trying to boil down the example to as simple a form as possible.

 

The real argument I am making is about healing, not healers. A DPS, a tank, or a healer; they can all be healed to an unlimited health pool.

 

The following is a stupid scenario that wouldn't likely happen; however that doesn't mean it isn't possible. A team of 7 healers could heal one tank which the entire other team was trying to kill. This in essence would turn into a PvE style boss fight. One side pouring all their dps into one "boss" while the other side pours all their heals into one tank.

 

The point is not that this is a stupid scenario where the people should know better and switch their focus to the healers. The point is "why is this even allowable by the game rules?". Again, it is a PvE centric design. I think a better design is that the 1 guy receiving heals from 8 players doubles his health once and then falls over dead.

 

I'll ask this another way. I see healers who have complained about healing because they don't do any dps, or they don't get enough reward credits, or that their healing is underpowered compared to other healers.

Why is healing even a PvP goal at all? Isn't the most exciting and fun part of PvP actually fighting another player? Do you want to stand around healing someone? Can't you do that all you like in PvE instances? Why do you want to do it in a PvP scenario?

 

The way tanking works in PvE is NOT valid in PvP. No tank can expect to stand around absorbing damage for his team and keeping all attacks only focused on him. Instead tanks change their PvP role to that of interferring or guarding. They do not tank at all in PvP.

 

Yet healers still heal the same way they heal in PvE. It is a poor design. It would be far better if healing was limited and everyone's focus was on dealing death. Killing the other player will always be the true core of what PvP is about.

[endikux]

Op,

 

It seems like this is your first mmog. That is a pretty long and rambling rant against healing.

 

On the contrary. I was making posts about MMO's in 1997 when Ultima Online came out. And I've seen MMO's use the same designs for over a decade and so well know the pros and cons of many of their design decisions.

 

Again. It is sad so many people are so incapable of moving beyond the "you suck" part of their brain. I worry about the new generation of gamers.

[Choppaman]

I think a lot of people are misconstruing my post to be an attack on healers when it is not. It is an attack on healing.

 

When I speak of a 1on1 dual it involves a healer of course; but this is just because I'm trying to boil down the example to as simple a form as possible.

 

The real argument I am making is about healing, not healers. A DPS, a tank, or a healer; they can all be healed to an unlimited health pool.

 

The following is a stupid scenario that wouldn't likely happen; however that doesn't mean it isn't possible. A team of 7 healers could heal one tank which the entire other team was trying to kill. This in essence would turn into a PvE style boss fight. One side pouring all their dps into one "boss" while the other side pours all their heals into one tank.

 

The point is not that this is a stupid scenario where the people should know better and switch their focus to the healers. The point is "why is this even allowable by the game rules?". Again, it is a PvE centric design. I think a better design is that the 1 guy receiving heals from 8 players doubles his health once and then falls over dead.

 

I'll ask this another way. I see healers who have complained about healing because they don't do any dps, or they don't get enough reward credits, or that their healing is underpowered compared to other healers.

Why is healing even a PvP goal at all? Isn't the most exciting and fun part of PvP actually fighting another player? Do you want to stand around healing someone? Can't you do that all you like in PvE instances? Why do you want to do it in a PvP scenario?

 

The way tanking works in PvE is NOT valid in PvP. No tank can expect to stand around absorbing damage for his team and keeping all attacks only focused on him. Instead tanks change their PvP role to that of interferring or guarding. They do not tank at all in PvP.

 

Yet healers still heal the same way they heal in PvE. It is a poor design. It would be far better if healing was limited and everyone's focus was on dealing death. Killing the other player will always be the true core of what PvP is about.

 

Do you know why you have never run into a team of 7 healers healing a tank?

 

Because it is a stupid team composition and a team that has 8 DPS would rip apart those healers and tank.

[CupieFoxtail]

Again. It is sad so many people are so incapable of moving beyond the "you suck" part of their brain. I worry about the new generation of gamers.

 

This is how to not lead a constructive thread

[endikux]

This is how to not lead a constructive thread

 

And the people saying "you suck" or "too long to bother" are constructive? I guess making an attack is fine but answering it is not.

[Bnol]

I think a lot of people are misconstruing my post to be an attack on healers when it is not. It is an attack on healing.

 

I'll ask this another way. I see healers who have complained about healing because they don't do any dps, or they don't get enough reward credits, or that their healing is underpowered compared to other healers.

Why is healing even a PvP goal at all? Isn't the most exciting and fun part of PvP actually fighting another player? Do you want to stand around healing someone? Can't you do that all you like in PvE instances? Why do you want to do it in a PvP scenario?

 

So you don't like healing, you want healers to be useless in PVP, and all PVP to just be dps versus dps. Yeah, I got that from your original post.