DarthSublimitas Posted February 14, 2012 Share Posted February 14, 2012 Just a heads up im a programmer and bugs aren't that difficult to fix. I know when you dont know anything about programming it looks like a bunch of gobldygook but once you learn what it all means it's just like editing a document that your making for work. On top of that you have several other people working with you in an environment like this, and just about every thing that you need to know has been figured out already and is online somewhere. As a programmer i can also tell you that a big part of being a good programmer is lazyness. this is because you have to make the same program a million times before you get any good at programming things. While i understand that this is a common feature in programmers, it is not an excuse. when i dont work i dont get paid because i freelance now, and i think the problem is that the programmers dont have that threat so they dont dig through the 10 million lines of code(which isnt a big deal when you have well written comments in your code and a find and replace feature. As far as im concerned 3 months old is not a new game anymore and the excuses are gone. This game should be fixed and i understand that the last 3 months have flown by cuz you've been having a lot of fun(i hope) but thats a quarter of a 60th of your entire life. that means in 160 of those amount of time you will be dead(assuming your the same age as me) saying "it's a new game it happens" just compounds the problem because you are not only lying to yourself but you're giving excuses to people who are unfortunatly innately lazy and will do anything to avoid a difficult task Very nicely put I'm in IT, security - I know ALL about ppl being lazy lmao!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oddzball Posted February 14, 2012 Share Posted February 14, 2012 (edited) Anyone who was in beta can tell you two things. You filled out questioners with simple 1-5 ratings. And you did load testing. The last two months of beta were nothing but a hype machine to generate interest in the game. During beta the DEVELOPERS specifically came out and said they didn't care what we said about anything, they just needed us for metrics and load testing. They were going to do the game there way, feedback be damned. Every single major problem the game has today, was discussed in beta WELL before launch. Faction imbalance? They knew it was gonna be a problem, everyone said it, but they didnt listen. No guild banks? We pleaded with them for over a YEAR to make sure that made launch. All those bugs? Do you have any idea how many times I reported warzone wins not counting? Or the filter mechanism not working when buying stuff? Or how HORRIBLE the GTC interface was? Or the horrible UI design decisions that were implemented VERY late in development? Ability LAG? Was reported in beta about a BILLION times. High res texture, the DISABLED in beta and at launch on purpose. Chat bubbles? Worked fine in beta. But for launch they took them away. And this is just the things off the top of my head, not counting the loads of bugs that were reported over a YEAR before launch. But it was always like "Oh its still beta, they will fix it." To be fair they fixed a TON of bugs before launch, but honestly, even with that blog about prioritization it just felt like the development of this game was ALL OVER THE PLACE. Like they had no direction or guidance. With that said, I still love the game, even if I am getting burned out from rolling alts as the only solution to endgame. Edited February 14, 2012 by Oddzball Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JustTed Posted February 14, 2012 Share Posted February 14, 2012 Just a heads up im a programmer and bugs aren't that difficult to fix. /facepalm Please tell me the following, Mr Programmer: Number of bugs in the game right now. Now rank those bugs by priority. All you guys do is make a massive amount of assumptions, then substitute those assumptions for facts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alkiii Posted February 14, 2012 Share Posted February 14, 2012 (edited) I agree, I was mearly responding to teddyboy's blathering. Lesson learned, I'll just ignore him since he obviously has no intention of doing anything other than derailing. I took what you said to heart, I understand they're working on it. That doesn't mean they've haven't done a poor job, and that's why you have such a large flux of specifically the beta testers who are so disheartened. Again, I'm not ******** on your point, I'm just saying that one example have little bearing on the whole scene. I was a beta tester and I understand where many people are coming from, however, having been through so many launches, you know that sometimes big fixes take some time. This game is still young. You know they're on it and working diligently to get it fixed correctly. If in 6 months it's not fixed, then I will be the one ranting, not you. Patience my friend. With the recent Q&A released, it seems that they have lots in store for the game. It's very exciting. I'm willing to stick it out for as long as I am getting the entertainment I am paying for. When that day comes that I'm not having fun, I will move on. Until that day, I won't look at the game through a magnifying glass ... I'll just play to play. Have a great day! Edited February 14, 2012 by Alkiii Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldBenSmokin Posted February 14, 2012 Share Posted February 14, 2012 No, I'm on topic. You're not 'casue you lost. I'm not sure where I'm losing you. You're in no position to evaluate this, and no, playing every MMO since the beginning of time doesn't help. What would? Knowing how many bugs were in the game during beta and how many got fixed before shipping. The prioritization system Bioware uses for these bugs. Average time to fix a bug. Etc. You don't know anything. That doesn't stop you from mouthing off like you do, then calling someone else a "troll" you simply can't address. It's pathetic. I'm comfortable with people being able to go back and see who first A) called people trolls. B) started running his mouth. You're going on ignore. Find someone else to harrass/stalk. If you attempted to make a point other than "You're a big dummy", then I would bear your stupidity. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JustTed Posted February 14, 2012 Share Posted February 14, 2012 Very nicely put I'm in IT, security - I know ALL about ppl being lazy lmao!! Then you should be embarrassed. You should know this simple I.T. fact of life: No one sees the stuff you fix 'casue now it's working. All anyone notices is broken stuff. Then those same *******es come around to tell you "So much stuff is broken. Maybe you should fix it." I.T. my ***. Desktop support for the last year doesn't count. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JustTed Posted February 14, 2012 Share Posted February 14, 2012 I'm comfortable with people being able to go back and see who first A) called people trolls. B) started running his mouth. You're going on ignore. Find someone else to harrass/stalk. If you attempted to make a point other than "You're a big dummy", then I would bear your stupidity. You can't answer a single relevant question put to you. But I'm a troll. Got it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oddzball Posted February 14, 2012 Share Posted February 14, 2012 /facepalm Please tell me the following, Mr Programmer: Number of bugs in the game right now. Now rank those bugs by priority. All you guys do is make a massive amount of assumptions, then substitute those assumptions for facts. Its not a fact of prioritizing the bugs, its a combination of the fact that while I love this game, BioWare has always been known to be slow as heck putting out patches, as well as if you had been in beta, recognizing how completely unorganized some of their features/bug fixes were implemented. Still love the game, but I agree, its a snowball effect. Bad/poor coding/documentation/comments leads to hard to fix bugs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JustTed Posted February 14, 2012 Share Posted February 14, 2012 Its not a fact of prioritizing the bugs... Yeah... yeah it is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldBenSmokin Posted February 14, 2012 Share Posted February 14, 2012 I was a beta tester and I understand where many people are coming from, however, having been through so many launches, you know that sometimes big fixes take some time. This game is still young. You know they're on it and working diligently to get it fixed correctly. If in 6 months it's not fixed, then I will be the one ranting, not you. Patience my friend. With the recent Q&A released, it seems that they have lots in store for the game. It's very exciting. I'm willing to stick it out for as long as I am getting the entertainment I am paying for. When that day comes, I will move on. Until that day, I won't look at the game through a magnifying glass ... I'll just play to play. Have a great day! I'll promise you, I'll be patient as I can be, but if the game frustrates the hell out you, that only goes so far. I will withhold final judgement for now, but I'm not holding my breath that they can "fix" the poorly laid foundation (gameplay wise). Sorry Teddyboy got me offtrack. You have a great day as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Halvos Posted February 14, 2012 Share Posted February 14, 2012 Just a heads up im a programmer and bugs aren't that difficult to fix. I know when you dont know anything about programming it looks like a bunch of gobldygook but once you learn what it all means it's just like editing a document that your making for work. On top of that you have several other people working with you in an environment like this, and just about every thing that you need to know has been figured out already and is online somewhere. As a programmer i can also tell you that a big part of being a good programmer is lazyness. this is because you have to make the same program a million times before you get any good at programming things. While i understand that this is a common feature in programmers, it is not an excuse. when i dont work i dont get paid because i freelance now, and i think the problem is that the programmers dont have that threat so they dont dig through the 10 million lines of code(which isnt a big deal when you have well written comments in your code and a find and replace feature. As far as im concerned 3 months old is not a new game anymore and the excuses are gone. This game should be fixed and i understand that the last 3 months have flown by cuz you've been having a lot of fun(i hope) but thats a quarter of a 60th of your entire life. that means in 160 of those amount of time you will be dead(assuming your the same age as me) saying "it's a new game it happens" just compounds the problem because you are not only lying to yourself but you're giving excuses to people who are unfortunatly innately lazy and will do anything to avoid a difficult task Very nice post. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oddzball Posted February 14, 2012 Share Posted February 14, 2012 Yeah... yeah it is. I mean its not the issue of prioritization. Bioware is just slow. Slow developer, kinda all over the place direction/management. They have always been this way, why is anyone surprised? Look at say.. Rifts first Major patch, then compare it to SWTOR. Look at the amount of stuff the Rift developers got done in a month, by comparison to our 1.1 BioWare just takes their time doing stuff. They are used to the style of "It will be done when its done"(First Dragon Age) versus the fast paced demand of MMO development. Love their games, just think they got in over their heads a little bit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JustTed Posted February 14, 2012 Share Posted February 14, 2012 (edited) I mean its not the issue of prioritization. Bioware is just slow. In order to make this evaluation you would need to know the number of bugs they fix in a given work week. You don't know this. You can't. This doesn't stop you from passing judgement and calling Bioware "slow." This isn't defending Bioware, it's attacking bad thinking. Edited February 14, 2012 by JustTed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Creedon Posted February 14, 2012 Share Posted February 14, 2012 All i hear is "wah wah wah".... Seriously, if your unhappy, move on. The OP and those like him/her are just secretive fanboi's that need a F'n hug apparently. But thank you for all the amusing posts, good info on what NOT to do in life.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AkemManah Posted February 14, 2012 Share Posted February 14, 2012 (edited) No one is arguing other games don't get patched. We're compaining that these issues were pointed out in Beta and UNLIKE other AAA MMO's, the devs never addressed them, and here we are going into the third month and the same issues persist. This is just stupid... I played all the "AAA MMOS" from beta thru a minimum of 6 mos, and it is just an outright LIE that they didn't ALL have bugs that I saw in beta well after beta. Edited February 14, 2012 by Notannos insulting Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Votrex Posted February 14, 2012 Share Posted February 14, 2012 Being slow isnt the point. But you have to do it right then and not implement even more bugs to the game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Calimwulf Posted February 14, 2012 Share Posted February 14, 2012 Just a heads up im a programmer and bugs aren't that difficult to fix. That is total horse pucky. The complexity of the application determines the difficulty of finding the bug. The more complex the application, the harder the bug can be to fix without causing additional bugs, even in the best written code. You sound like you have thrown some HTML together that says 'Hello World' and considered that enough experience to be an expert. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JustTed Posted February 14, 2012 Share Posted February 14, 2012 Being slow isnt the point. But you have to do it right then and not implement even more bugs to the game. Fixing bugs introduces more bugs. This is the nature of software development on something this large and complex. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
evildestroyer Posted February 14, 2012 Share Posted February 14, 2012 I heard from people in my guild that played Beta that, Beta was actually BETTER and more stable than the final release. That Beta even had more equipment than what we have now. Seriously? This game feels like we are paying for beta instead. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oddzball Posted February 14, 2012 Share Posted February 14, 2012 In order to make this evaluation you would need to know the number of bugs they fix in a given work week. You don't know this. You can't. This doesn't stop you from passing judgement and calling Bioware "slow." This isn't defending Bioware, it's attacking bad thinking. They are slow. All I have to do is look at how much they get for each of their patches, in comparison with their competition.(Not just blizzard either, Look at Trions patches after launch, or NCSoft or a lot of MMOs) Is that everything? No, but its a very good judge. That said, as I stated before, I LOVE the game, I just accepted a long time ago in beta that BioWare took forever to fix/implement anything. I just don't see the point in mindlessly defending their every action. Or fighting with people for opinions about this or that. My OPINION happens to be that the beta for this game was poorly handled, and I agree with that point of the OP, so I chimed in to show that not everyone on here thinks everything is golden. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mandrax Posted February 14, 2012 Share Posted February 14, 2012 Lately its been nothing but damage control for this game and nerf this, hotfix that. Wasnt that what a beta was for? Now i realize problems arise after beta and release can be a different build but it shouldnt be huge differences like we're seeing now. Not to mention bioware took out a lot of armor sets and other options that it plans to throw into an expansion and make us pay, yet these things were already in the beta. Beta started too late, wasn't big enough in terms of numbers, and with the people that were testing, many were just using their time to get to play the game for free rather than actually testing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldBenSmokin Posted February 14, 2012 Share Posted February 14, 2012 (edited) Don't waste your energy on him Oddz. He's not here to debate or offer insight. Edited February 14, 2012 by OldBenSmokin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
luzzo Posted February 14, 2012 Share Posted February 14, 2012 (edited) /facepalm Please tell me the following, Mr Programmer: Number of bugs in the game right now. Now rank those bugs by priority. All you guys do is make a massive amount of assumptions, then substitute those assumptions for facts. unfortunately i dont know how many bugs there are because i havent examined the source code for the game but i can tell you several and rank them. however, since im 100% sure your question wasnt aimed at me answering them ill tell you what causes bugs to exist 1: Code that is not well formed or commented. Comments are lines in code that are removed during compilation. they are there specifically to help the programmers remember what the function was for, and for other programmers who didnt write said function or code so that they know what the code does without scanning every line. When Code is not "well formed" and commented it becomes very difficult to figure out what each function does, and even more difficult to know what the change in code will do to affect the rest of the code 2: functions that do more than they should A function should be like a piece of machinery. a spark plug, for instance, is incapable of starting the car, or turning on the air conditioning because it doesnt need to. A good physical example of a bad function is a swiss army knife. It does EVERYHING but it doesnt do ANY of those things as well as the tool that was designed just for that(scissors a knife a file etc...) This is a very big issue because eventually you will have so many functions referencing each other that it becomes impossible to modify a function without drastically affecting the entire program because that one function does everything 3: Lazyness (see my previous post) Programmers will lie to THEMSELVES to get out of programming. It is a very focus intensive job that, while easy, is incredibly reduntant and boring(a lot like doing warzones when only people without any pvp gear are in the queue all day) 4: Bad Management Sometimes your boss will tell you that he thinks something is more important than you do because he has no idea what hes talking about or what involved in doing it(this isn't always the case). When this happens, said boss will usually change his mind 7 or 8 times in the middle of you doing it, which not only wastes time, but makes you not want to work anymore because he's just gonna mess with you again to show he's the boss there are several other reasons but those are the main ones. There will always be bugs in any program, but there is no excuse for ANY bugs to be in the final product, and if there are it's because of one of those 4 things. not because its "REALLY REALLY HARD TO PROGRAMZ!!!" Hope that clears that up for ya ;D Edited February 14, 2012 by luzzo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oddzball Posted February 14, 2012 Share Posted February 14, 2012 Beta started too late, wasn't big enough in terms of numbers, and with the people that were testing, many were just using their time to get to play the game for free rather than actually testing. +100% So true. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ironix Posted February 14, 2012 Share Posted February 14, 2012 Just a heads up im a programmer and bugs aren't that difficult to fix. I know when you dont know anything about programming it looks like a bunch of gobldygook but once you learn what it all means it's just like editing a document that your making for work. On top of that you have several other people working with you in an environment like this, and just about every thing that you need to know has been figured out already and is online somewhere. As a programmer i can also tell you that a big part of being a good programmer is lazyness. this is because you have to make the same program a million times before you get any good at programming things. While i understand that this is a common feature in programmers, it is not an excuse. when i dont work i dont get paid because i freelance now, and i think the problem is that the programmers dont have that threat so they dont dig through the 10 million lines of code(which isnt a big deal when you have well written comments in your code and a find and replace feature. As far as im concerned 3 months old is not a new game anymore and the excuses are gone. This game should be fixed and i understand that the last 3 months have flown by cuz you've been having a lot of fun(i hope) but thats a quarter of a 60th of your entire life. that means in 160 of those amount of time you will be dead(assuming your the same age as me) saying "it's a new game it happens" just compounds the problem because you are not only lying to yourself but you're giving excuses to people who are unfortunatly innately lazy and will do anything to avoid a difficult task Speaking as a developer myself, this man speaks the truth. If I were to make a rough estimate, for every hour I'm paid, I'm maybe working 50% of the time. =p Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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