hoax_ Posted February 14, 2012 Share Posted February 14, 2012 (edited) you think the other dps classes don't stack surge? Stop having the wow mindset. I know this may be a shocker but you're not a wow rogue. Every dps class has about the same crit, and they are all stacking surge. Here educate yourself: http://www.jedilace.com/2012/02/03/calculating-critical-hit-chance/ Scoundrel / Operative WZ gameplay: 1. choose your target (stealth advantage) 2. burst down that target 3. restealth and repeat We rely on burst damage. That means we rely on high crits, and high crits require you to have a high amount of crit / surge. The fact that other classes also stack surge doesn't mean they need it as much as we do. Also, that you're currently leveling a Scoundrel means nothing. You seem to be a smart guy, so you might know that 10-49 pvp is entierly different from the things going on in the 50s bracket. Edited February 14, 2012 by hoax_ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ComeAndSee Posted February 14, 2012 Share Posted February 14, 2012 It partially has to do with the itemization available. Crit+Surge mods are probably the highest DPS mods in game and there's no Power+Crit mods or anything really in between that has crit. Surge per point was second best after crit but also was easier to get. Now its about equal to Power. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beddo Posted February 14, 2012 Share Posted February 14, 2012 Op here... this nerf hit me by 12% (89 to 77). Surge was the only thing worth stacking and it still is. You can stack power/surge or crit/surge. Anyways, this hurts operatives doubly so because of the last nerf. We're teetering damned close to having to use all energy regen cooldowns just to fight a geared person who puts up any sort of resistance, since it now requires extra swings to do the same damage. Guess we can treat PvP like PvE and keep our energy above 60% so we don't bottleneck our dps eh? This is how you can tell people have been playing on easy mode and need a nerf. You have to use a cooldown to beat someone who puts up any resistance? I would assume that you are used to no resistance, and if so you never had to use a cooldown. I'm a Sentinel and I use my GCD every fight otherwise we might as well just lay down. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hoax_ Posted February 14, 2012 Share Posted February 14, 2012 I'm a Sentinel and I use my GCD every fight otherwise we might as well just lay down. What is this.. I don't even.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ComeAndSee Posted February 14, 2012 Share Posted February 14, 2012 I had 75% surge crit dmg... what would it be now? Just curious. I'm @ work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ComeAndSee Posted February 14, 2012 Share Posted February 14, 2012 Sure, a Master Artifice I can make the Advanced Reflective Enhancements 22 so far, perfect for my Consular Shadow: 18 Endurance 39 Shield 27 Power 27 Crit lvl 49 That's a damn good mod. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
astrolite Posted February 14, 2012 Share Posted February 14, 2012 Wait, you mean you will have to play like EVERY NON FORCE USING CLASS IN GAME now? No. You clearly don't understand and this conversation isn't for you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orangerascal Posted February 14, 2012 Share Posted February 14, 2012 (edited) You meant every other dps class has some form of gap closer or range to dish out their damage? Besides who else can say they have above 50% critical chance on their two major attacks? If you're a IO who's not closing ... it's definitely a l2 play issue. Fortunately I don't suffer from the same issue on my scoundrel. I actually know where my stealth button is and how to move around aoe. http://www.jedilace.com/ss/Screenshot_2012-02-13_23_47_40_610369.jpg yes that's a void star;) Scoundrel / Operative WZ gameplay: 1. choose your target (stealth advantage) 2. burst down that target 3. restealth and repeat We rely on burst damage. That means we rely on high crits, and high crits require you to have a high amount of crit / surge. The fact that other classes also stack surge doesn't mean they need it as much as we do. Also, that you're currently leveling a Scoundrel means nothing. You seem to be a smart guy, so you might know that 10-49 pvp is entierly different from the things going on in the 50s bracket. Thanks, but I'm level a scoundel too. I'm pretty sure I know how to play it: http://www.jedilace.com/ss/Screenshot_2012-02-11_18_52_15_765448.jpg http://www.jedilace.com/ss/Screenshot_2012-02-11_19_47_16_763254.jpg http://www.jedilace.com/ss/Screenshot_2012-02-13_23_47_40_610369.jpg If your results vary, the problem is you not the class. Edited February 14, 2012 by Orangerascal Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TUXs Posted February 14, 2012 Share Posted February 14, 2012 Nice I'm anxious to see how this change works Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kryptorchid Posted February 14, 2012 Share Posted February 14, 2012 Thanks, but I'm level a scoundel too. I'm pretty sure I know how to play it: http://www.jedilace.com/ss/Screenshot_2012-02-11_18_52_15_765448.jpg http://www.jedilace.com/ss/Screenshot_2012-02-11_19_47_16_763254.jpg http://www.jedilace.com/ss/Screenshot_2012-02-13_23_47_40_610369.jpg If your results vary, the problem is you not the class. Bwahahahahahahahaahh!!! That looks like screenshots from my level 13 Gunslinger. You sure told him! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Audenlol Posted February 14, 2012 Share Posted February 14, 2012 I enjoyed how a surge nerf threAd turned into a op/scoundrel whine thread. See what happens when you let the kids have their hand in the cookie jar to long bioware?! Very amusing Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slemfiskz Posted February 14, 2012 Share Posted February 14, 2012 soooooooo many whiners in this community , you cant expect to be given one stat that just massively outwages the other stats, this works fine now if u stop at a certain point and choose wise Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hoax_ Posted February 14, 2012 Share Posted February 14, 2012 (edited) snap As I told you before, 10-49 brackets doesn't matter. It's a whole different story if you're in the 50s bracket and going up against premades that actually know how to play. I'm still able to top warzone scoreboards, but that doesn't mean ****. When rated warzones will come, you will see that good teams will likely learn how to outplay scoundrels (knockback/snare/focus/outheal their burst) and they will be useless by then. The only chance I see is if you're using 2 Scoundrels / Operatives in your team because they might be able to burst down high priority targets fast enough, but one alone will be useless. Edited February 14, 2012 by hoax_ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orangerascal Posted February 14, 2012 Share Posted February 14, 2012 (edited) As I told you before, 10-49 brackets doesn't matter. It's a whole different story if you're in the 50s bracket and going up against premades that actually know how to play. I'm still able to top warzone scoreboards, but that doesn't mean ****. When rated warzones will come, you will see that good teams will likely learn how to outplay scoundrels (knockback/snare/focus/outheal their burst) and they will be useless by then. The only chance I see is if you're using 2 Scoundrels / Operatives in your team because they might be able to burst down high priority targets fast enough, but one alone will be useless. Our scoundrels do fine at 50 and even inspired me to roll one. I'll see what it's like at 50. Personally I don't think much will change as gear scales pretty much with your character. I'm not going to speculate on the comps of rated warzones just yet, because 8 man comps are pretty huge and provide a wide array of variance. Also good teams will learn to outplay scoundrels, likewise good scoundrels will learn to adapt. They fulfill the heavy hitter backline ganker role in group pvp and absolutely destroy mercs and sorcs. Edited February 14, 2012 by Orangerascal Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
astrolite Posted February 14, 2012 Share Posted February 14, 2012 This is how you can tell people have been playing on easy mode and need a nerf. You have to use a cooldown to beat someone who puts up any resistance? I would assume that you are used to no resistance, and if so you never had to use a cooldown. I'm a Sentinel and I use my GCD every fight otherwise we might as well just lay down. Here, I will make it easy for you. How much downtime does a Sentinel have with a healer? How much downtime does an Operative have with a healer? It isn't about using cooldowns, it is about how Bioware designed the energy regen mechanics and how lowering damage has an adverse effect in pvp. AKA unseen consequences What if every time you used rage, your next ability cost more rage? That is essentially how energy regen works as the lower your pool goes down the less you get out of it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ewgal Posted February 14, 2012 Share Posted February 14, 2012 (edited) What would a Pyro use with Alacrity again? Oh yeah, good point you make sir. I don't think you have to change anything. Just need to accept the nerf. Pyro was way OP anyways pre-patch and this will tone down any insane dmg burst into something more rationale. It will take more skill to play the spec now, and that is for the greater good of SWTOR PvP, where there were too many OP 1-2 button dps classes played by people. Edited February 14, 2012 by Ewgal Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orangerascal Posted February 14, 2012 Share Posted February 14, 2012 also if you want to see how bad it was nerfed with a graph: http://www.jedilace.com/2012/02/01/when-is-too-much-surge-bad-for-digestion/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheRFC Posted February 14, 2012 Share Posted February 14, 2012 LOL @ Operatives You guys really can't catch a break. ME LIKE Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ohitei Posted February 14, 2012 Share Posted February 14, 2012 After nerf, went from 81.84% surge to 72%. That is one HELL of a nerf and considerably worse than I had thought. Great patch, awsome patch. BW has officially made heal Ops totally worthless. Thanks BW, can I have another nerf please? Soon Soon. trust in them! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pilige Posted February 14, 2012 Share Posted February 14, 2012 (edited) If you're a IO who's not closing ... it's definitely a l2 play issue. Fortunately I don't suffer from the same issue on my scoundrel. I actually know where my stealth button is and how to move around aoe. http://www.jedilace.com/ss/Screenshot_2012-02-13_23_47_40_610369.jpg yes that's a void star;) Thanks, but I'm level a scoundel too. I'm pretty sure I know how to play it: http://www.jedilace.com/ss/Screenshot_2012-02-11_18_52_15_765448.jpg http://www.jedilace.com/ss/Screenshot_2012-02-11_19_47_16_763254.jpg http://www.jedilace.com/ss/Screenshot_2012-02-13_23_47_40_610369.jpg If your results vary, the problem is you not the class. lol no **** in the level 49 bracket, I can get 200k as a healing op Have fun fighting people with equal or ( more than likely) better gear than you Edited February 14, 2012 by Pilige Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orangerascal Posted February 14, 2012 Share Posted February 14, 2012 (edited) lol no **** in the level 49 bracket, I can get 200k as a healing op lol Do you want to see screenshots of my level 50 on my sage instead ? # nom nom http://www.jedilace.com/ss/Screenshot_2012-02-03_20_01_38_965819.jpg I promise when I'm 50 I'll show you some ss's and videos of my scoundrel. Just be patient. Have fun fighting people with equal or ( more than likely) better gear than you Don't worry I have friends that will carry me through the 2 weeks of hell once I get to 50 Edited February 14, 2012 by Orangerascal Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Choombatta Posted February 14, 2012 Share Posted February 14, 2012 No. He had it right. The option is Surge/Power or Surge/Crit. Option like Power/Alacrity or Power/Accuracy are not even on the table because 1 of those stats is harmful(in some cases) and the other near worthless. So why are you ignoring all the other possible stats? Crit/Defense Crit/Absorption Crit/Shield Power/Defense Power/Absorption Power/Shield Surge,Alacrity,and Accuracy are not the ONLY stat that is paired with Crit or Power on Enhancements. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hoax_ Posted February 14, 2012 Share Posted February 14, 2012 Also good teams will learn to outplay scoundrels, likewise good scoundrels will learn to adapt. They fulfill the heavy hitter backline ganker role in group pvp and absolutely destroy mercs and sorcs. While that might be true, don't you think that role could be fulfilled by a shadow/assasin as well (and they also have knockback/sprint)? Or is their damage so much worse than ours? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sw_dragon Posted February 14, 2012 Share Posted February 14, 2012 A smack in the face to PvE players, thanks to the incessant whining of hutballers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pilige Posted February 14, 2012 Share Posted February 14, 2012 Do you want to see screenshots of my level 50 on my sage instead ? I promise when I'm 50 I'll show you some ss's and videos of my scoundrel. You on the other hand, can keep whining about how bad the class is. I wasent QQ about how bad the class is, I play healing OP anyway. Im just saying dont expect to walk into the 50 bracket and put up 300k and 0 deaths against premade BM groups. People queuing in the 49 bracket are still learning thier class, have less utility, and in general are not that well geared. A person can put up decent numbers on an op if they are a decent player, but that same player can put up better numbers and make a bigger impact to a game as another class. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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