boobaffet Posted February 14, 2012 Share Posted February 14, 2012 I'm yet to read any reason why people seem to have a problem or hate the auto-teleport. It's already done in PvP, so why the hate on PvE? Its not needed, you have like 2 planet with fp's right next to each other. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zenehre Posted February 14, 2012 Share Posted February 14, 2012 If you need recognition for your Star Wars playing ability, create a leaderboard. I think you somehow misread the last couple paragraphs of my post. To be completely to the point and specific, my post was in reference to the bonds and connections that form from repeated interaction with a limited (although still large) population of people. And that by expanding that population of people exponentially, the statistical chances of you running into the same player or group of players enough times to actually form any kind of connection are very very low. Recognition for accomplishments was but one example out of several in that post, and the least important to me personally since i've always been a pvp person, but added anyways for completeness' sake. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nitewolfe Posted February 14, 2012 Share Posted February 14, 2012 Well we could very well say show us your facts that it DOESN'T exactly what we say it has been. Facts work both ways otherwise this pointless conversation will just keep going. As for facts, just look at the numbers for WoW before, and after the LFD system was put into the game. They had a strong 11 million, heading for 12 before it was introduced and things have slowly ebbed away to 10 million. You talk about no facts to support our argument yet some of us have first hand knowledge of what that game in particular has become. Care to show us your facts? Or are you simply trying to dru the same old lack of facts argument when you have none of your own. your numbers are wrong the decline did not happen till a full year AFTER cross server lfd. matter of fact the decline didnt happen till 4 months after cata release. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tormeanted Posted February 14, 2012 Share Posted February 14, 2012 It's a fact that X-LFD will degrade my enjoyment of this game. You don't have to use it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Uruare Posted February 14, 2012 Share Posted February 14, 2012 Well we could very well say show us your facts that it DOESN'T exactly what we say it has been. Facts work both ways otherwise this pointless conversation will just keep going. Burden of proof is on the claimant. That'd be you. As for facts, just look at the numbers for WoW before, and after the LFD system was put into the game. They had a strong 11 million, heading for 12 before it was introduced and things have slowly ebbed away to 10 million. You talk about no facts to support our argument yet some of us have first hand knowledge of what that game in particular has become. And -nothing- at all had any impact on WoW in that whole time; absolutely nothing. Just LFG/LFR tools. For you to be correct in this reference, that would have to be true. Being as that we are not idiots and know that is not, in fact, true, it would take a great deal of very careful examination to identify the actual impact of these tools on WoW since their inception. Also, yeah, I play WoW as well. Have for quite some time. Don't get too haughty with your 'first hand knowledge', 'cause I've got a big ol' pile of it myself, and there's a lot of nowhere useful to go in arguing over whose perceptions of events is righter than whose. Care to show us your facts? Or are you simply trying to dru the same old lack of facts argument when you have none of your own. Once again, you're the one making wild claims from a position of certainty based on facts you cannot evidence as supported by a line of reasoning that would get you thrown out of a highschool debate team by the least capable kid in the room. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kaelshi Posted February 14, 2012 Share Posted February 14, 2012 I did since vanilla. I farmed EVERY SINGLE HEROIC KEY in tbc when it still required REVERED without the assistance of LFD. People lived without it in the past they can do it again. Having said that the cat is out of the bag at this point. It's coming and the best we can hope to do is mitigate it so that HARD MODES are still HARD MODES. Wait - so this is really what, a jealousy thing? You're mad because you were required to play what was ostensibly a harder game? Thats nice that you had the time to farm TBC dungeons. In Cataclysm LFR puts you in a nerfed version of the dragon soul raid. It does not drop the best gear for the raid and it is only 25-man easy mode content. If you want the best gear you have to find a server-side group. If you want 10-man content you must have a server-side group. What you farming heroics has to do with anything is beyond me. It means nothing with whether there should be an LFG to make finding a group to do content easier or harder. All an LFG tool does is make it easier to find a group to do content. You farmed tbc heroics by finding groups server-side. Great...good for you...I would enjoy the game a heck of a lot more if I was able to experience content using an tool to easily set me up with other players looking to do content. Channels not spammed with LFG DRAGON SOUL LFG BARADAN HOLD would improve the game for me as well. I lost levels when I was killed in the first mmo's I ever played. That doesn't mean everyone should man up and we should be losing levels when we die now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orisai Posted February 14, 2012 Share Posted February 14, 2012 (edited) Its not needed, you have like 2 planet with fp's right next to each other. 2 (or 3) unnecessary 1-3 minute loading screens and lots of meaningless timesinks to get to the Flashpoint while on PvP you just que up and get ported right into the fray. Edited February 14, 2012 by Orisai Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MalignX Posted February 14, 2012 Share Posted February 14, 2012 I think you somehow misread the last couple paragraphs of my post. To be completely to the point and specific, my post was in reference to the bonds and connections that form from repeated interaction with a limited (although still large) population of people. And that by expanding that population of people exponentially, the statistical chances of you running into the same player or group of players enough times to actually form any kind of connection are very very low. Recognition for accomplishments was but one example out of several in that post, and the least important to me personally since i've always been a pvp person, but added anyways for completeness' sake. I get it. MMOs can be deep social experiences, making memories you'll carry with you forever. If a X-LFG is the lynchpin that ruins your ability to keep doing that, perhaps you should find a different medium with which to make friends and have relationships? As far as "Community", again if a simple grouping mechanic is the Black Plague of your community, perhaps it it's just time for your community to be buried in a mass grave. Just like Europe in the 15th century, new communities will spring up and rebuild. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kaelshi Posted February 14, 2012 Share Posted February 14, 2012 I think you somehow misread the last couple paragraphs of my post. To be completely to the point and specific, my post was in reference to the bonds and connections that form from repeated interaction with a limited (although still large) population of people. And that by expanding that population of people exponentially, the statistical chances of you running into the same player or group of players enough times to actually form any kind of connection are very very low. Recognition for accomplishments was but one example out of several in that post, and the least important to me personally since i've always been a pvp person, but added anyways for completeness' sake. What if I dont like most of the people on my server. Why are you trying to force me to do something YOU want to do. An lfg does not force you to use it. Not having one forces me to sit around spamming looking for a group. I dont want to form bonds with anyone. I want to experience content. This is a game and while many people use it as a social vehicle - I use it to play a game. In all of the discussion on this there is one point that seems to be should be irrefutable. Discouraging playability in favor of sociability should never, ever happen in a game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bomama Posted February 14, 2012 Share Posted February 14, 2012 Why not just implement a LFD tool that takes people from your own server first? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kaelshi Posted February 14, 2012 Share Posted February 14, 2012 I get it. MMOs can be deep social experiences, making memories you'll carry with you forever. If a X-LFG is the lynchpin that ruins your ability to keep doing that, perhaps you should find a different medium with which to make friends and have relationships? As far as "Community", again if a simple grouping mechanic is the Black Plague of your community, perhaps it it's just time for your community to be buried in a mass grave. Just like Europe in the 15th century, new communities will spring up and rebuild. thank you - someone suggesting that forming bonds with my server is more important than the ability to experience content was blowing my mind. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TonyIommi Posted February 14, 2012 Share Posted February 14, 2012 (edited) Wait - so this is really what, a jealousy thing? You're mad because you were required to play what was ostensibly a harder game? Thats nice that you had the time to farm TBC dungeons. I. No. It should be evidentiary that such systems are not needed. In fact given how gosh darned easy everything easy in these games and how little effort it requires it shouldn't even be a though. As I said its to convenient of a tool for them to ignore and we know who's fault that is. People will just simply not accept anything different. Oh well. Hopefully we can mitigate some of the side effects. For the people who have decided that such a system of convenience has no cost, I ask you instead When has convenience never had a cost associated with it? Edited February 14, 2012 by TonyIommi Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vlaxitov Posted February 14, 2012 Share Posted February 14, 2012 (edited) I get it. MMOs can be deep social experiences, making memories you'll carry with you forever. If a X-LFG is the lynchpin that ruins your ability to keep doing that, perhaps you should find a different medium with which to make friends and have relationships? Because you're here now and that medium must be changed for your convienence. Edited February 14, 2012 by Arzhanin Rude comments Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MalignX Posted February 14, 2012 Share Posted February 14, 2012 Why not just implement a LFD tool that takes people from your own server first? The ideas of: 1)Cross-Server Friends and Ignore list, with priority given to these lists when you join the queue. 2) Being able to choose X-Server or In-Server only when you join the queue. Were both put forth, not good enough for the Antis it seems. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bulmunk Posted February 14, 2012 Share Posted February 14, 2012 Its a server balance problem mostly. The thing is that for light servers its better for players because they are lucky to see 60 people on the fleet. (The light server I play on the highest number was 63 and only for about 2 minutes) <Anicdotal not actually apart of my argument. Personally I would prefer single server LFG for the simple reason that I can que up chat with people cause I like to talk to people, if I like their playstyle and attitude ill prolly add them as a friend and try and do more things with them. However if they are jerks or ninja's I'll simply not add them as a friend but not ignore them either incase I ever really need a group. Really the only thine im against is cross server LFG cause even if I like a person I wont be able to find them again. And before anyone says that something to help what im saying would be server merge, what happens when there is a name conflict? Are you just gonna screw one of the players out of a name? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MalignX Posted February 14, 2012 Share Posted February 14, 2012 Its a server balance problem mostly. The thing is that for light servers its better for players because they are lucky to see 60 people on the fleet. (The light server I play on the highest number was 63 and only for about 2 minutes) <Anicdotal not actually apart of my argument. Personally I would prefer single server LFG for the simple reason that I can que up chat with people cause I like to talk to people, if I like their playstyle and attitude ill prolly add them as a friend and try and do more things with them. However if they are jerks or ninja's I'll simply not add them as a friend but not ignore them either incase I ever really need a group. Really the only thine im against is cross server LFG cause even if I like a person I wont be able to find them again. And before anyone says that something to help what im saying would be server merge, what happens when there is a name conflict? Are you just gonna screw one of the players out of a name? Cross-Server Friends lists. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nitewolfe Posted February 14, 2012 Share Posted February 14, 2012 I get it. MMOs can be deep social experiences, making memories you'll carry with you forever. If a X-LFG is the lynchpin that ruins your ability to keep doing that, perhaps you should find a different medium with which to make friends and have relationships? As far as "Community", again if a simple grouping mechanic is the Black Plague of your community, perhaps it it's just time for your community to be buried in a mass grave. Just like Europe in the 15th century, new communities will spring up and rebuild. Well said. I think these anti xlfg people would be happier in yahoo chat since they rather be social than play the game. i ran across there type in these games before.. Goes like this we get zoned in and every one says hi and the tank ask we ready to roll. A rdy and yep and lets get to it goes out. We are trucking along and then see 16 lines of text about how joe's days is going and realize he is sitting back at the entrance because he was to busy typing out a wall of text. these types tend to get put on my ignore list ahead of most others! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TonyIommi Posted February 14, 2012 Share Posted February 14, 2012 (edited) And before anyone says that something to help what im saying would be server merge, what happens when there is a name conflict? Are you just gonna screw one of the players out of a name? Offer a bonus (color crystal, or pet or credits or whatever) to the guy big enough to accept that his toon should have his name changed. I love black sabbath but for 10k cred I could just as easily be Ozzy Osbourne, Or Bill Ward or Terry "Geezer" Butler. Edited February 14, 2012 by TonyIommi Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boobaffet Posted February 14, 2012 Share Posted February 14, 2012 2 (or 3) unnecessary 1-3 minute loading screens and lots of meaningless timesinks to get to the Flashpoint while on PvP you just que up and get ported right into the fray. People leaving warzone when their dungeon queue pop would suck. Thats what happened in rift Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vlaxitov Posted February 14, 2012 Share Posted February 14, 2012 Discouraging playability in favor of sociability should never, ever happen in a game. Discouraging playability in favor of sociability happens in every multiplayer game all the way down to vote kicks in CoD. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kaelshi Posted February 14, 2012 Share Posted February 14, 2012 No. It should be evidentiary that such systems are not needed. In fact given how gosh darned easy everything easy in these games and how little effort it requires it shouldn't even be a though. As I said its to convenient of a tool for them to ignore and we know who's fault that is. People will just simply not accept anything different. Oh well. Hopefully we can mitigate some of the side effects. For the people who have decided that such a system of convenience has no cost, I ask you instead When has convenience never had a cost associated with it? whoa - because you were able to do it means everyone else clearly should? not only that but despite knowing absolutely NOTHING about your personal situation we should just EVIDENTLY know this? In the end - why do you care if it's easier for other people to do it? LFG does NOT make content easier. What it does, and this should be evident since it is oh so bloody obvious, is make it easier for people to find other people to group up and do that content with. It allows more people to experience content. If you want to continue to do server-side only groups - and are happy with it...then do it. Why do you care so much about how other people experience the game? Yes - I want finding a group to be easier. I want as little downtime when I log on as possible because I do not have unlimited amounts of time to play. Why....do you care. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MalignX Posted February 14, 2012 Share Posted February 14, 2012 whoa - because you were able to do it means everyone else clearly should? not only that but despite knowing absolutely NOTHING about your personal situation we should just EVIDENTLY know this? In the end - why do you care if it's easier for other people to do it? LFG does NOT make content easier. What it does, and this should be evident since it is oh so bloody obvious, is make it easier for people to find other people to group up and do that content with. It allows more people to experience content. If you want to continue to do server-side only groups - and are happy with it...then do it. Why do you care so much about how other people experience the game? Yes - I want finding a group to be easier. I want as little downtime when I log on as possible because I do not have unlimited amounts of time to play. Why....do you care. Because some how their 100+ hours a week of playing and mad tanking abilities will not get the recognition they deserve! No one will look at what Guild they are in with jealousy!Heh. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zenehre Posted February 14, 2012 Share Posted February 14, 2012 -snip- Discouraging playability in favor of sociability should never, ever happen in a game. Maybe you have never seen the acronym 'MMORPG' spelled out before. i shall enlighten you. "Massively Multiplayer Online Role Playing Game" Quite literally the only point of making and playing a MMORPG as opposed to a traditional RPG, is the social aspect. If you dont want this, perhaps this isnt the genre for you. Skyrim is a really fun game with none of this "talking to other people" hassle. Perhaps thats more up your alley. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MalignX Posted February 14, 2012 Share Posted February 14, 2012 (edited) Maybe you have never seen the acronym 'MMORPG' spelled out before. i shall enlighten you. "Massively Multiplayer Online Role Playing Game" Quite literally the only point of making and playing a MMORPG as opposed to a traditional RPG, is the social aspect. If you dont want this, perhaps this isnt the genre for you. Skyrim is a really fun game with none of this "talking to other people" hassle. Perhaps thats more up your alley. Or maybe you could go play a MUD? I hear LARPing is quite fashionable these days. Edited February 14, 2012 by MalignX Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bomama Posted February 14, 2012 Share Posted February 14, 2012 Wow, you guys are really enjoying this... Again I ask: why not implement a LFD tool that takes from your own server first?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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