Give me a legitimate reason to NOT have a LFD tool.

[PjPablo]

Random cross-server sucks. There are much better ways. We need more comprehensive options for players... Not some fail tool that tosses 4 people together at random.

 

Don't use it then. You can continue to put your crack, elite PUGs together in order to keep facerollin' content. I'll do fine with the 'lowest common denominator'.

 

 

As an aside I do get a good laugh out of people being elite in a super casual, incredibly easy MMO. It's really quite funny.

[Taroen]

no... you haven't. You've asserted that it was true, and that's it.

 

The very fact that you responded like this speaks very clearly: you have no way of defending that position.

 

FFS... Yes, I have. In many posts. I didn't just say it was true. I pointed out why.

 

You fail at reading.

[darkcerb]

My argument doesn't make sense to you because you keep insisting on making up my position for me. Try arguing against my actual position, instead of the one you created in your head.

 

Your position is groups formed via cross realm are worse then locally.

 

That so far is your whole argument so we have to assume why that is, I've covered every conceivable route so I'm left assuming I'm being toyed with.

 

Either you feel local groups are superior because they somehow know eachother (on the whole false)

 

Or you feel cross realms are worse because of something you haven't defined.

 

Just what is your point? do you have one?

[souloferdrick]

Your position is that an instant grouping xserver tool causes content nerfs. You have yet to support that in any way.

 

Once idiots and undergeared folk looking for a free ride become prevalent in LFD groups, the call goes out to nerf content, impose draconian loot rules and force minimum gear standards.

[DarthKhaos]

Kudos to those making good suggestions and esp the guy I linked with the concept of a really nice LFG tool. The rest that only wants cross server and nothing else... Edited February 15, 2012 by Meluna
disruptive, baiting behavior

[ferroz]

Are you claiming that those people don't exist..?

THey exist, with or without a random finder

With a random finder you're stuck with those people, and that makes those groups, that are put together in that way, vastly inferior to any other form of grouping. Even the basic PUG.

False; just like a random pug they can be kicked. And since they're nigh instantly replaced, that's far superior to a current basic pug.

 

It's happened before.

This does not support your position one iota. you have 2 logical fallacies going on.

• The fact that it happened before does not mean that it will definitely happen again.
  
• The fact that nerfs happened after the lfd tool does not mean that they were caused by the lfd tool
  

 

So, you have yet to offer a single non-fallacious bit of support for your claim.

[darkcerb]

More players, more dps to satisfy, more anti social people, more idiots, more, more more. I am acknowledging the more.

 

More decent people, more tanks more healers.

 

Now your closer to acknowledging them all.

[PjPablo]

Once idiots and undergeared folk looking for a free ride become prevalent in LFD groups, the call goes out to nerf content, impose draconian loot rules and force minimum gear standards.

 

While I don't agree x-server LFD queues lead to content nerfs I would absolutely support requirements for queuing for things like HMs.

[Taroen]

Don't use it then. You can continue to put your crack, elite PUGs together in order to keep facerollin' content. I'll do fine with the 'lowest common denominator'.

 

 

As an aside I do get a good laugh out of people being elite in a super casual, incredibly easy MMO. It's really quite funny.

 

It's a stupid argument to make that we can just not use it. Adding a cross-server random instant finder ala WoW changes the game for EVERYONE. And on top of that, there are much better ways to implement tools to help people find groups.

 

Honeslty... If you love WoW's tool so much, why aren't you using it now..? I'm not saying that you should leave Star Wars, but just ask yourself... If that system is so awesome, why aren't you in queue there right now?

 

Because it ISN'T awesome. It's lame. We need comprehensive tools for players to create groups, not a fail random queue.

[ferroz]

Once idiots and undergeared folk looking for a free ride become prevalent in LFD groups, the call goes out to nerf content, impose draconian loot rules and force minimum gear standards.

Speculation, not fact. Maybe there will be calls for nerfs that wouldn't have happened without the tool; it's impossible to know.

 

Even if there are calls for nerfs that wouldn't have happened without a lfd tool, that doesn't mean that those nerfs will happen. Or that any nerfs that do happen are the result of those calls for nerfs.

 

 

The tool simply does not cause the nerfs.

[ferroz]

It's a stupid argument to make that we can just not use it.

I have guild members in wow that never use the lfd to find members. They always queue up in a full group.

 

it's absurd to claim that you are forced to use it when you're not.

Edited February 15, 2012 by ferroz

[PjPablo]

It's a stupid argument to make that we can just not use it. Adding a cross-server random instant finder ala WoW changes the game for EVERYONE. And on top of that, there are much better ways to implement tools to help people find groups.

 

Honeslty... If you love WoW's tool so much, why aren't you using it now..? I'm not saying that you should leave Star Wars, but just ask yourself... If that system is so awesome, why aren't you in queue there right now?

 

Because it ISN'T awesome. It's lame. We need comprehensive tools for players to create groups, not a fail random queue.

 

Ahh there it is. The "Go back to WOW" argument. They need to add that to Godwin's.

 

I do play WOW still. LFR, which would probably cause heads to explode here, is one of the best features they have added. So many more people get to raid now and for the Hardcore crowd there is still the harder level content. Everyone gets what they want.

 

X-Server changes nothing for those that choose not to use it. Absolutely nothing.

[Taroen]

THey exist, with or without a random finder

False; just like a random pug they can be kicked. And since they're nigh instantly replaced, that's far superior to a current basic pug.

 

No, they can't. Unless they've changed it, if someone gets kicked from a group, they can't get kicked again for quite some time. Lame.

 

This does not support your position one iota. you have 2 logical fallacies going on.

• The fact that it happened before does not mean that it will definitely happen again.
  
• The fact that nerfs happened after the lfd tool does not mean that they were caused by the lfd tool
  

 

So, you have yet to offer a single non-fallacious bit of support for your claim.

 

Actually I have. Several times. I'm not walking you through it again.

[darkcerb]

It's a stupid argument to make that we can just not use it. Adding a cross-server random instant finder ala WoW changes the game for EVERYONE. And on top of that, there are much better ways to implement tools to help people find groups.

 

Honeslty... If you love WoW's tool so much, why aren't you using it now..? I'm not saying that you should leave Star Wars, but just ask yourself... If that system is so awesome, why aren't you in queue there right now?

 

Because it ISN'T awesome. It's lame. We need comprehensive tools for players to create groups, not a fail random queue.

 

Your logic is a lie.

 

I'm not playing wow because i've played it for 7 years and I'm bored of it not because of the tool.

[Taroen]

Ahh there it is. The "Go back to WOW" argument. They need to add that to Godwin's.

 

Dude... I JUST said in that very thing that you quoted that "I'm not saying you should leave Star Wars".

 

I do play WOW still. LFR, which would probably cause heads to explode here, is one of the best features they have added. So many more people get to raid now and for the Hardcore crowd there is still the harder level content. Everyone gets what they want.

 

X-Server changes nothing for those that choose not to use it. Absolutely nothing.

 

Untrue. It changes everything. Cross-server sucks. Random sucks. So many better options, but you cling to the worst ones.

[Kaelshi]

@Taroen

 

I just perused some of your posts.

 

You're wrong a lot of things.

 

It really comes down that despite calling everyone else whiners, you're easily the biggest whiner in this game. Your points are generally wrong, and then when someone points it out you whine that "all they do is point out that your statements are false, how boring"(direct quote from you btw).

 

As far as nerfing content - content was nerfed before LFD and after. Content was also incresed in difficulty before/after.

 

the Luck of the Draw buff did not work the first 3-4 months of Cataclysm for example so all the whiners like you complaining did not realize the content was not nerfed for LFD.

 

The simple unavoidable fact is this - in WoW the challenging stuff is not the 5-man content, very little of that ever was hard. The challenging content is the 10man heroic raids.

 

You CANT LFD for regular raids in WoW(The lfr is a nerfed version that drops lesser gear).

 

You are required to get a server-side group to do regular/heroic raiding.

 

You only hate this because you clearly are one of the people who have the time to focus on playing the game in exclusion to other activities.

 

Even if you are correct that it is people of lesser skill who are not good enough to do the content and so people dont want them in their server-side groups, or they can only do it with a Luck of the Draw type buff....So what....why do you care so much if people get to experience content. There is in WoW and there will be in swtoro content that is still only doable by server-side groups without any buffs.

 

You may or may not be this - but based on your posts you come off as a whiner who just wants to have a higher gear score than most people and so don't want anyone else to be able to do content that you are capable of doing without an LFD tool.

 

It can't be about forcing you to use the tool since you wont be.

 

It can't be about "nerfed" content as you contend in a few of your posts since the most challenging content has not been nerfed in WoW and is not even doable with the LFD tools provided.

 

It can't be the mythical "community" breaking argument since anyone who played when there was Barrens Chat or has ever spent an hour in WoW and inevitably noticed 100 ppl spamming trade with A NAL whatever.

 

It seems like it can only be you being a big giant baby who wants to have a big gear score so you can feel superior.

 

LFD makes finding groups faster for people who choose to use it. For casual players it allows us not to have to time-sink finding a group spamming chat channels.

 

In WoW at peak hours it takes less than 5 minutes to find a group using LFD if you're a dps. Everone has see people in THIS came spend hour+ trying to find a group spamming channels. 5 minutes is faster.

 

You also are not up-to-date on the tools WoW used. It is not just a random queue finder anymore. There are ways to add x-server friends and they are implementing an newer, updated battle tag system.

 

So not only are you whining, you are whining about something you do not even understand

Edited February 15, 2012 by Kaelshi

[souloferdrick]

Speculation, not fact. Maybe there will be calls for nerfs that wouldn't have happened without the tool; it's impossible to know.

 

Even if there are calls for nerfs that wouldn't have happened without a lfd tool, that doesn't mean that those nerfs will happen. Or that any nerfs that do happen are the result of those calls for nerfs.

 

 

The tool simply does not cause the nerfs.

 

People that are too stupid to figure out how to connect with other players for grouping are just smart enough to run that content with zero problems. Theres a contradiction in there somewhere.

 

And its not speculation. There's a mountain of observable evidence to reference, its just not wise to bring it up when you have an agenda to push and that evidence runs counter to it.

[Taroen]

Whatever... I'm off to play the game instead of the forums... Have fun all.

 

Think I might go run a flashpoint or two... =P

[ferroz]

No, they can't. Unless they've changed it, if someone gets kicked from a group, they can't get kicked again for quite some time. Lame.

As far as i recall, you get locked out of kicking if you abuse it.

 

I don't abuse it, so I never have problems kicking someone who actually deserves it...

 

Actually I have. Several times. I'm not walking you through it again.

No, I've debunked your one attempt, showing how it's based on fallacious logic. Were you going to just pretend you've defended it, or were you actually going to try and defend it?

 

edit: clearly you're going to just pretend that you've defended it.

Edited February 15, 2012 by ferroz

[Taitano]

Dude... I JUST said in that very thing that you quoted that "I'm not saying you should leave Star Wars".

 

 

 

Untrue. It changes everything. Cross-server sucks. Random sucks. So many better options, but you cling to the worst ones.

 

I haven't played WoW in years. Cross-server, random didn't suck for me. I had no issues and if it hadn't been for the tool I probably would have quit WoW sooner.

 

I literally cannot remember any real negative experience using the tool in WoW. I'm sure there were some but my overwhelming experience was positive.

 

How in the hell did you guys have such a bad time with it? Well, it is actually clear from your nonsense. Lowest common denominator indeed.

[PjPablo]

Dude... I JUST said in that very thing that you quoted that "I'm not saying you should leave Star Wars".

 

 

 

Untrue. It changes everything. Cross-server sucks. Random sucks. So many better options, but you cling to the worst ones.

 

Since you just keep repeating "It Sucks. It Sucks." without anything to back up your POV, I'll leave you alone now. When they do add x-server, give it a try. Don't get all mad and quit. You'll find that it works and isn't the 'monster' you make it out to be.

[darkcerb]

Whatever... I'm off to play the game instead of the forums... Have fun all.

 

Think I might go run a flashpoint or two... =P

 

Again, the counter-argument I'd call him what he is but that would ironically be a reportable offense so lets just say when they're last argument is logically met they turn to inflammatory and insulting posts.

 

Especially this poster.

[yodimaster]

Except all that changes is the volume of groups, the attitude towards them doesn't change.

 

Feel like we've been here before, and you're carefully stepping around the fact that the pool of players is increased 10 fold or more.

 

 

Pool of players might increase but the Tank and Healer pools will not as those two classes are less played by folks! Me personally I will never run a pug on my Consular Sage (healer) as I have pick of the litter on who i can be a "SNOOP" to when it comes to groups, I did this in FFXI, WoW, and will likely do so here to! As far as dps goes I wont have a problem there as i have a 150+ active member guild with on average during peek times with 40 or more on.

 

What I'm saying if I feel this way as a healer , then others surly are going to follow suit unless BW adds sometype of reward system for tanks/healers to que and that comes up to bring forth another problem, "DPS WILL FEEL CHEATED"!

[Taroen]

@whatshisface

 

You're wrong on everything and your post is a wall of pointless whiney name-calling.

 

If already said that we need much better options for group creation. I simply oppose random cross-server crap. There are far better options.

[PjPablo]

How in the hell did you guys have such a bad time with it? Well, it is actually clear from your nonsense. Lowest common denominator indeed.

 

This ^

 

I always found what you get out of random groups is what you put in. I typically start with a "Hey. Everyone been here before?" Make sure people know the fights. Explain them if they don't. Drop a table/feast/etc (in WOW). Things like that. If you are nice and social the likelihood of things going wrong greatly decreases. Then again that can be said for any group in a MMO.