Give me a legitimate reason to NOT have a LFD tool.

[navarh]

THey didnt have LFR in wrath. It was instroduced in Cata.

lie

 

there was tab where you can choose specific raid you role or browse players that look for tha specific raid, but i don't know anyone who find raid wia that tool even once

 

LFR was inroduced only with DS

 

after you kick 4 people in your LFG you are forced to play with the 5th one

if 5 people was "bad" for you i have some bad news

there posibility, like 95% that problem is not them but you

Edited February 14, 2012 by navarh

[zarnakrider]

Stop making up fake fixes to get it. You know they will add a kick timer so after you kick 4 people in your LFG you are forced to play with the 5th one and everyone after that because you cant kick for 4 hours.

 

I didnt say me I said you. The ones that want it so you can find a group.

It isnt fake resets every time when dungeon finishes

[ferroz]

You do but you want to ignore it instead because denial makes your point right

No, it's because there isn't, it's you quoting someone out of context who's not making a point against the lfd

 

I mean, I think the person you were quoting out of context even agreed.

 

This is speculation. It might get it nerfed. It might be nerfed for totally different reasons. It might not be nerfed.

 

Did I forget to mention that the ones that want this will say its not what they want until they get the LFG in place. How about Bioware make a public statement that id they install a LFG and people start to complain its to hard and it needs to be nerfed because you dont want to waste all your time in a failed LFG that they will revert back to no LFG instead of nerfing it and if they dont then they will give refund everyone who is unhappy with this their sub cost from when they added the LFG originally. You get your LFG we dont get nerfed content and Bioware gets to keep their money or else we get our money back and you get your nerfed content and Bioware loses their money for putting in the LFG that we told them why you wanted it.

Yeah, you did. It's not true, but you did say it.

 

Really, you're talking to a hardcore non-raider from EQ who used to call out the people who claimed content couldn't be done by non-raiders*. I'm all about hard content.

 

Getting groups together != hard content. It's a pointless frustration, and since the lfpf tool could remove that frustration, I'm in favor of it..

 

 

* in particular, it was great linking our tank's magelo whenever someone would claim that you couldn't tank X without a raid geared warrior... especially since I could point out that he was being healed by a shaman, not a cleric.

No Bioware we just want a LFG so we can play your game really, we dont want if for any other reason. Yeah right you used that line so many times in wow so only complate idiots would fall for it a 200th time.

I've never used that line in wow. Edited February 14, 2012 by ferroz

[navarh]

i wasn't even aware of timer like this o.O

 

gues why? never ever used it to kick players so often, afkers, offline, slowpokes yes

but that is like one player per 10-20 groups

 

 

people search for different FP at given time, less people avilable less chance that some of them need same stuff as you, LFG solve this

 

all other "problems" that LFG create are pawns for greater good

 

Edited February 14, 2012 by navarh

[ferroz]

THey didnt have LFR in wrath.

There was indeed a looking for raid tool in wrath; it didn't autogroup or anything back then..

 

It was instroduced in Cata.

if you're talking the raid finder, DS actually.

[Maleficium]

no, you are suggesting that. Remember, we are talking about Cross-Server lfg, not intra-server. Elite players and/or those interested in player accountability and community would be very likely to transfer to a closed lfg server. Since the best, most hardcore players often share this sensibility, we can postulate that they would make up the balance of the population. This would make for a highly progressed server, which would then likely attract many other players interested in progression. Elite guilds would still be exclusive, but every hardcore player I've ever known runs alts. They would be much more likely to round out their groups with lfg.

 

Sounds like a very easy choice for someone like you. Or me, for that matter.

 

Elite players != people that care about community.

 

I consider myself a higher caliber player and I dont give a damn about the community. If my guildies are on and I want to run a HM with just them I can do that. If I'm the only person in my guild on and I have an hour to waste then a LFG lets me queue up a hard mode and get in and out before anyone even knows its bad.

 

On my holy paladin or my DK tank in WoW, I carried many many many many many undergeared tanks/dps or healers through heroics. Did I care? Hell no because we were never in danger of a wipe due to my awesome gear and skillage!

 

A LFG tool be it cross server or not (cross server would mean a faster queue) would allow me to run a HM when ever I want with out having to waste an hour or so putting a group together in general chat.

 

 

Personally this whole fear of ending up with a bad group or pug kind of makes me think that some people are just used to being carried. Everyone was bad at some point so people might as well learn somehow. It's not their fault that this game can be played simply by rolling your face on the keyboard.

[Emeda]

It isnt fake resets every time when dungeon finishes

 

No it doesnt there were many people that had 4 hour kick timers. You know nothing about it if you think it reset every dungeon. I also believe it was account wide so if you kicked on onw alt you had the timer on your other alt.

[Emeda]

There was indeed a looking for raid tool in wrath; it didn't autogroup or anything back then..

 

if you're talking the raid finder, DS actually.

 

It didnt work. They had it in the system but it didnt work.

[ferroz]

Personally this whole fear of ending up with a bad group or pug kind of makes me think that some people are just used to being carried.

Agreed.

 

any time I hear "I'm afraid of getting bad players in my group" or something like it, I assume that they're just used to being carried.

 

It didnt work. They had it in the system but it didnt work.

it functioned... it was just useless.

[zarnakrider]

No it doesnt there were many people that had 4 hour kick timers. You know nothing about it if you think it reset every dungeon. I also believe it was account wide so if you kicked on onw alt you had the timer on your other alt.

 

Holy . it wasnt like that if it was when you get timer other ones get timer to their account too and it will go forever like that to other players .

Edited February 14, 2012 by zarnakrider

[ferroz]

No it doesnt there were many people that had 4 hour kick timers. You know nothing about it if you think it reset every dungeon. I also believe it was account wide so if you kicked on onw alt you had the timer on your other alt.

the only time that happens is if you overuse it... ie, you're one of the people who abuse it to grief people.

[navarh]

Personally this whole fear of ending up with a bad group or pug kind of makes me think that some people are just used to being carried.

only think? that is one of core nature laws

just like day & night cycle

day comes night ends, forever carried "palyers" terrified by pugs

Edited February 14, 2012 by navarh

[Whitesmokes]

I HATE CHANGE AND FAST PACED LEARNING!! this game is perfect, end of story.

[Quip]

only think? that is one of core nature laws

just like day & night cycle

day comes night ends, forever carried "palyers" terrified by pugs

 

 

What really hurts is the concentration of truth in there.

[BMBender]

Whats funny too is every game that get a lfg tool.. dumb down the content shortly after.

 

Look at the bright side though, how much "easier" can the content get?

[Lerthan]

This is the issue, Random LFG tool = more players experiencing content. This is not a bad thing. There are other issues that it does not resolve true but more players get to experience the content.

 

With more players experiencing the content comes more players who cannot grasp that standing in FIRE BAD, or other such things like breaking CC, positioning in fights ect. These players then complain that the fights are to hard and we can't do them. Players that where able to complete the content prior to the LFG tool agree with them because they just want to get the content done so they can get there shiny badges or gear. Content gets nerfed and made easier so that players can complete said content.

 

The real cause of the failures was not the LFG tool, nor was it the difficulty of the fights. The real issue is that some players, actually a lot of players can not grasp the simple concepts of group play. Aka don't break CC, don't stand in fire, Don't pull agro from the tank, ect.

 

That is sadly a reality, prior to the LFG tool in wow, heroic fights where challenging and fun, required good strategy to succeed and the mechanics of the fight where something to be dealt with. It trained new players for raiding.

 

After the event of LFG, heroics changed to easy mode, Tanks no longer had to worry about threat, Boss mechanics in these fights became something that you no longer had to deal with. You could stand in fire and your healer could out heal it. CC became unnecessary, Focus fire was no longer needed to down the mobs quickly ect.

 

We add in an LFG system, I can guarantee that within two days you are going to start seeing posts on the forums about the content being to hard to complete. The fact is the content was being completed before the LFG system and fault lies with the players not the difficulty of the encounter.

 

Is this to say that we should not have an LFG system by no means. I am just saying that the after affects will be detrimental in that regard.

 

Secondly a Random LFG system in no way resolves the other issues that need to be resolved with a proper LFG system.

 

Lack of choice in who you group with.

 

Being forced to use it, as the only other method provided is chat spam.

 

No tool other then chat spam to find groups for questing on the planets for the heroic areas. Or just other things you want to do as a group should said content be added.

 

D-Bag players being able to play in such a style and the other players having no way to avoid such players. Goes with issue number 1.

 

These 4 issues, there may be more that I am not thinking of at the moment. Have to be resolved with a good LFG tool. The other things that a good LFG tool needs to take into account.

 

Ease of use.

 

Ability to quickly put together groups.

 

Ability to do other things while trying to get groups.

 

Low population factions on the servers, also just low pop servers in general.

 

If all of these issues and factors are taken into consideration and something designed that deals with all of these, you are going to have one of the best LFG tools in the genre. At that point the only thing you have to deal with is the very first issue that I brought up and honestly that is something that we will have to deal with, with or without an LFG system at some point. The LFG system just makes it happen a lot faster.

Edited February 14, 2012 by Lerthan

[lineschmidt]

the only time that happens is if you overuse it... ie, you're one of the people who abuse it to grief people.

That's a lie

 

The timer was also extended on people who got kicked too often which in the end protected the douche bags

 

If you're going to argue at least stick to the truth

 

Oh and i love how some of the supporters of a LFD tool uses the whole wow bad people got carried thing. You're exactly the kind of people we don't want to group with. I bet you're the types who also wants dps meters you can link in chat right?

Edited February 14, 2012 by lineschmidt

[navarh]

CC became unnecessary

sorry to inform you but cc that last like several minutes, don't aggro mobs and start fight is complete sh**

where skill when you "cc" (in fact press one button) 2 of 3 mobs and then (like a true mad_skilled baws of games) kill one last lone mob?

 

…and that is "skill" or "hard"? really?…

Edited February 14, 2012 by navarh

[Lerthan]

sorry to inform you but cc that las like several minutes, don't aggro mobs and start fight is complete sh**

where skill when you "cc" (in fact press one button) 2 of 3 mobs and then (like a true mad_skilled baws of games) kill one last lone mob?

 

…and that is "skill" or "hard"? really?…

 

Read the full post thing.

 

Take shadow vault for example, if you dint CC mobs they did run and grab another pack of mobs. There where a lot of fights like that back in Vanilla and BC. CC was necessary and required to be able to complete the heroics I was talking about. Then take a look at the Wrath heroics.

[navarh]

Take shadow vault for example, if you dint CC mobs they did run and grab another pack of mobs. There where a lot of fights like that back in Vanilla and BC. CC was necessary and required to be able to complete the heroics I was talking about. Then take a look at the Wrath heroics.

so?

you press button, spell fires-off mob cc'ed, level of skill required is beyond the godlike…

 

don't make me laugh, and when "CC was necessary and required" classes without long-last cc is screwed for no reason and classed with cc suddenly become more skilled and more desirable

 

this **** must go from mmo games, make fight itself interesting

kill with fire trash like

CC-take-skill

cc-mob with one button is fun

fight one helpeless foe is fun

Edited February 14, 2012 by navarh

[harpuax]

so?

you press button, spell fires-off mob cc'ed, level of skill required is beyond the godlike

 

Yet people still F*** it up.

[DarthKhaos]

time t divided by the number of groups formed in time t (which is a given, it's part of the premise) is the average amount of time for each group to form; Individual wait time is directly proportional to that...

Whoha lotsa posts since I left work and got home. Let me explain this to you quick before I go log on.

 

 

I'll reiterate, and make everything as clear as I can.

 

In queue A: 4 groups form every hour; the average group formation wait time is 15 minutes.

In queue B: 3 groups form every hour; the average group formation wait time is 20 minutes.

In queue C: 2 groups form every hour; the average group formation wait time is 30 minutes.

In queue D: 9 groups form every hour; the average group formation wait time is 6 minutes, 40 seconds.

 

Scenario 1: Single server queues

• server A (queue A): wait time = 15 minutes
  
• server B (queue B): wait time = 20 minutes
  
• server C (queue C): wait time = 30 minutes
  

overall average wait time = 21:40 minutes. (edit: fixed 65/3 ~= 21.667)

 

Scenario 2: cross server queues

one cross server queue (queue D). Wait time = 6:40

 

Individual wait times are directly proportional to the group formation wait times.

 

 

feel free to actually pick it apart. But bear in mind that "lol math error" doesn't actually constitute picking it apart.

Let's go with the assumption that there's an average of 4 groups form per hr on server A, 3 on server B & 2 on server C. We're also going to ignore the average wait time because we don't want to get into differential equations. You assume that's 9 groups in one hr and from a certin point of view you are correct. However this is the mistake you made.

The one hr times are separate. you cannot pool the groups formed separately and not pool the times. Even though the time period occurred in parallel the time must be considered separate because it was from different pools of data.

So when you said 60/9 you were incorrect because it was supposed to be 180/9.

 

Understand now?

[Bomama]

Elite players != people that care about community.

 

I consider myself a higher caliber player and I dont give a damn about the community. If my guildies are on and I want to run a HM with just them I can do that. If I'm the only person in my guild on and I have an hour to waste then a LFG lets me queue up a hard mode and get in and out before anyone even knows its bad.

 

On my holy paladin or my DK tank in WoW, I carried many many many many many undergeared tanks/dps or healers through heroics. Did I care? Hell no because we were never in danger of a wipe due to my awesome gear and skillage!

 

A LFG tool be it cross server or not (cross server would mean a faster queue) would allow me to run a HM when ever I want with out having to waste an hour or so putting a group together in general chat.

 

 

Personally this whole fear of ending up with a bad group or pug kind of makes me think that some people are just used to being carried. Everyone was bad at some point so people might as well learn somehow. It's not their fault that this game can be played simply by rolling your face on the keyboard.

Since you mentioned WoW, I played horde on Mal'Ganis, which was one of the heaviest pop servers. Many good guilds, many good players. It wasn't long before many people stopped using the LFG tool, and went back to general chat LFM. You think its because they wanted to be carried?? Stupid. It's because they wanted to chain heroics quickly, or get another bear out if ZA. Everyone who was LFM on my server always expected proof of your ability NOT to need carrying, either by gear checks or linking achieves.

 

Whatevs, I still say implement a x-server lfg, but have it look to your own server first.

[navarh]

and went back to general chat LFM. You think its because they wanted to be carried?? Stupid. It's because they wanted to chain heroics quickly, or get another bear out if ZA.

for bear from 5ppl ZA?

sorry but this is exact "be carried" becourse ZA time-run is easy managable in pug-group

 

ofc if you are not the cause of failed runs

[Bomama]

for bear from 5ppl ZA?

sorry but this is exact "be carried" becourse ZA time-run is easy managable in pug-group

 

ofc if you are not the cause of failed runs

 

I'm sure it is now. I was referring to last July, when I was still playing.