Give me a legitimate reason to NOT have a LFD tool.

[oursacrifice]

I could easily just as well say the same for you. Why would you then wish to foist your experience over mine?

 

Because you're turning something that isn't an issue into one. You're saying you had this wonderful list of friends in TBC and that you could magically run anything and everything whenever you wanted.

 

Then you quit the game and came back towards the end of the next expansion and everything had changed.

 

WELL NO ****! That's pretty incredible, and if I must say, very rude on the part of the game to evolve while you're gone.

 

Had you remained active you would have kept up with all those friends, you'd still be forming groups with them well after the the LFD tool was implemented.

[noire]

I'm fine with having a LFD tool, as long as it is _NOT_ cross-server.

Then again, we have a LFG tool really, but people don't use it because of some stupid reason that lacks logic reasoning. It's not hard to use, you click a box, you enter a comment. When looking for people who are looking for a group, you type in LFG and press enter or the magnifying glass (or whatever it is) and you get the list of everyone who has checked the little box - pretty convenient, but it seems most people are too stupid to realise that if no one is using the tool that you were given then there's no wonder it doesn't work.

Edited February 14, 2012 by noire

[ispanolfw]

Because you're turning something that isn't an issue into one. You're saying you had this wonderful list of friends in TBC and that you could magically run anything and everything whenever you wanted.

 

Then you quit the game and came back towards the end of the next expansion and everything had changed.

 

WELL NO ****! That's pretty incredible, and if I must say, very rude on the part of the game to evolve while you're gone.

 

Had you remained active you would have kept up with all those friends, you'd still be forming groups with them well after the the LFD tool was implemented.

 

Except regardless of you seeing it as a non issue, it still may be to others. And even if it wasn't, the idea that you get to push your opinion over others for ANY reason is absurd.

[oursacrifice]

I'm fine with having a LFD tool, as long as it is _NOT_ cross-server.

Then again, we have a LFG tool really, but people don't use it because of some stupid reason that lacks logic reasoning. It's not hard to use, you click a box, you enter a comment. When looking for people who are looking for a group, you type in LFG and press enter or the magnifying glass (or whatever it is) and you get the list of everyone who has checked the little box - pretty convenient, but it seems most people are too stupid to realise that if no one is using the tool that you were given then there's no wonder it doesn't work.

 

Without cross server, the entire system is useless. Too many low population servers and a server only tool would not benefit that chunk of the playerbase at all.

 

Except regardless of you seeing it as a non issue, it still may be to others. And even if it wasn't, the idea that you get to push your opinion over others for ANY reason is absurd.

 

LOL

 

So wait, someone says "LFD will ruin everything and destroy the point of a friends list and the community wil die" - and someone else responds with "No it won't because you can still have a friends list and you can still form a flashpoint group with them or in general chat and not queue until you get a party of four."

 

That 2nd person is just stating an opinion??

 

Yeah, please move along. This subject is clearly over your head.

Edited February 14, 2012 by oursacrifice

[DarthKhaos]

Have a question for you. See sig.

Because I'm at work OR somewhere I can't play. If I am home and on the forums is because I'm supposedly studying, I can take a quick 2 mins to post.

 

Now I'm going to ask a question. If people hate this game so much or say they're bored why do they play for 5+ hrs a day?

[Charliff]

Dude to be honest i play republic the planets are already dead to me and ive heard pretty funny trolls in general chat so i might enjoy it lol. When i started mmo it was back in the late 90s the community back than were generally in thier lteens to early 20s so alot of ppl had free time, nowadays mmos have gotten more popular with the older crowd as well as the same crowd however the same/newer ppl now have jobs and work for a living so dont have as much time to dedicate to mmos like they used to. which is why alot of them have evolved to more casual friendly. i loved EQ and ffxi but i dont have to same time i had to dedicate like i used to and manys dont. back than casuals were the minority now they are the majority

 

The genre did change, evolution is what you also can say. Not that i would have the time these days like i did in eq1 (Being married and studying Dutch literature leaves just not that many hours to play hehe). EQ1 was the last game for me being faced with a community. Sure there were ******s (who could either reroll and change servers because not being allowed to group really ment just that) but there was far more interaction then in today games. These days it's lobby gaming with the attitude 'i pay so i deserve all content and i deserve it NOW or i leave'. The LFD-tool is part of that. To bad but hey you can't blame Bioware or EA to get the most money possible and creating the lobby game they now are building makes that possible.

Edited February 14, 2012 by Charliff

[ispanolfw]

Without cross server, the entire system is useless. Too many low population servers and a server only tool would not benefit that chunk of the playerbase at all.

 

 

 

LOL

 

So wait, someone says "LFD will ruin everything and destroy the point of a friends list and the community wil die" - and someone else responds with "No it won't because you can still have a friends list and you can still form a flashpoint group with them or in general chat and not queue until you get a party of four."

 

That 2nd person is just stating an opinion??

 

Yeah, please move along. This subject is clearly over your head.

 

You still haven't caught on to the path of least resistance? Here's the thing. I was around when LFD was implemented in WoW. At first you didn't really see a difference, or not much if you didn't use it. But after a while, the amount of people NOT using it dwindled to the point it was quite difficult to get groups without it. On two servers I played mind you.

 

The problem is you push that it's optional, which yes, it is. The problem is that you stop there and do not continue. And that's the point, it doesn't end there. Being optional only affects what you can do, you have to look beyond to actually see the after effects of it.

[darkcerb]

Except regardless of you seeing it as a non issue, it still may be to others. And even if it wasn't, the idea that you get to push your opinion over others for ANY reason is absurd.

 

You claim only to be here peddling that point and yet you don't quote the other side in the same fashion?

 

You're transparent as plain glass, at least they have the guts to stand by there views.

[ispanolfw]

You claim only to be here peddling that point and yet you don't quote the other side in the same fashion?

 

You're transparent as plain glass, at least they have the guts to stand by there views.

 

Go read some of my previous posts. I've pointed out that i've seen the problem on both sides. It just seems more prevalent on yours.

[darkcerb]

The problem is you push that it's optional, which yes, it is. The problem is that you stop there and do not continue. And that's the point, it doesn't end there. Being optional only affects what you can do, you have to look beyond to actually see the after effects of it.

 

It is optional, if your way of finding a group becomes endangered it is only because others prefer the tool to your way.

 

That's a fact, much like people don't currently use the system in place because they don't want to even though it would help them find groups.

 

This simple and straightforward fact of human behavior can't be denied, especially when a system is in place that is being ignored.

[Gehoornde]

Look, it's pretty simple really:

 

If you don't like LFD tool, SWTOR might not be the game for you. No shame in that. This game is not for everybody or maybe you're just burned out on mmo's.

[ispanolfw]

It is optional, if your way of finding a group becomes endangered it is only because others prefer the tool to your way.

 

That's a fact, much like people don't currently use the system in place because they don't want to even though it would help them find groups.

 

This simple and straightforward fact of human behavior can't be denied, especially when a system is in place that is being ignored.

 

And you still claim that anyone who uses it prefers it. Back it up. I've told you it could be quite the opposite. Will it? Who knows. But there's this thing that's been repeated multiple times in the thread. Path of least resistance. You do not have to favor it to decide to use it. Many people are on the fence and all it takes is a push, ie not being able to find local groups as quickly anymore, to push them over. Doesn't mean they prefer it.

 

Me personally? I treat it in a way similar to a necessary evil. In all the games i've played with such a tool it got to the point if I wanted to group, I had to use it. I didn't like it whatsoever, but was willing to use it only as needed.

[oursacrifice]

You still haven't caught on to the path of least resistance? Here's the thing. I was around when LFD was implemented in WoW. At first you didn't really see a difference, or not much if you didn't use it. But after a while, the amount of people NOT using it dwindled to the point it was quite difficult to get groups without it. On two servers I played mind you.

 

The problem is you push that it's optional, which yes, it is. The problem is that you stop there and do not continue. And that's the point, it doesn't end there. Being optional only affects what you can do, you have to look beyond to actually see the after effects of it.

 

I don't care what your experience was, because I was specifically responding to someone that had a huge list of friends in WoW and was able to get groups all the time, anytime during TBC.

 

That group of friends, had he not quit, would have still likely been there and would have still formed groups with him (unless they really didn't like him and were just using him to fill a spot).

 

It's an optional feature, plain and simple. You can still form groups the old way after this type of tool is implemented, you just get to sit around fleet spamming while everyone else is away from fleet, queued up and doing dailies or even questing - you know, they're actually playing the game itself.

 

You can join a guild and run with them as well. There are a lot of avenues for you super-social MMO players that feel the only way to experience a proper MMO is to sit in chat for 45 minutes looking for a group.

 

Being optional is just that - it's OPTIONAL. That's why it ends right there. It's an optional feature. Period. You either use it, or you form your own group and go flashpointing.

[darkcerb]

And you still claim that anyone who uses it prefers it. Back it up. I've told you it could be quite the opposite. Will it? Who knows. But there's this thing that's been repeated multiple times in the thread. Path of least resistance. You do not have to favor it to decide to use it. Many people are on the fence and all it takes is a push, ie not being able to find local groups as quickly anymore, to push them over. Doesn't mean they prefer it.

 

Me personally? I treat it in a way similar to a necessary evil. In all the games i've played with such a tool it got to the point if I wanted to group, I had to use it. I didn't like it whatsoever, but was willing to use it only as needed.

 

When you had the option not to, dress it up in whatever way you want. You always had and always will have the option to spam general, and pester people just like you can now.

 

With about the same result as now. Nobody held a gun to your head and made you use it.

[ispanolfw]

Look, it's pretty simple really:

 

If you don't like LFD tool, SWTOR might not be the game for you. No shame in that. This game is not for everybody or maybe you're just burned out on mmo's.

 

Good thing I joined the game knowing it didn't have one and the devs had stated they would rather not use it. Wait....

 

I play the game for what it is, not come in and want things changed. I can understand it, you want to like the game the way you want to like it. But I could not even begin to try and force my way of entertainment on another. And that's the thing, the game being the way it is, is not forcing it upon you. It already is like that, you're forcing yourself to play. And in turn, trying to change it to something more favorable to you.

[ferroz]

And you still claim that anyone who uses it prefers it.

Other than a tiny fraction of a percent (masochists), anyone who uses the lfd tool prefers to do so over not using it. That's why they use it. If they didn't prefer to use it, then they wouldn't. It's pretty simple.

 

It's always a choice. It's never something that you're forced to do.

[ispanolfw]

When you had the option not to, dress it up in whatever way you want. You always had and always will have the option to spam general, and pester people just like you can now.

 

With about the same result as now. Nobody held a gun to your head and made you use it.

 

And that's again where you're failing to see the point. Anyone with a brain can tell it would be optional. You say "It's optional, you don't have to use it if you don't want to, what's the problem?"

 

vs

 

"It's optional, you don't have to use it, but if you don't you will most likely have a reduced amount of groups, or longer times forming groups due to people using the tool rather than not. In some cases you may not be able to get groups at all, but it's optional, you can still choose which way you want to go"

 

There's a rather large difference. The first just says it's optional and they cannot see a problem with it beyond that single point. The second points out the effects of it being optional and what it would do should you choose not to use it. And that's the point, giving someone a choice to or not use a tool, when one choice slowly becomes far more "required" to get a group in a timely fashion, isn't as optional as you push it as.

[ispanolfw]

Other than a tiny fraction of a percent (masochists), anyone who uses the lfd tool prefers to do so over not using it. That's why they use it. If they didn't prefer to use it, then they wouldn't. It's pretty simple.

 

It's always a choice. It's never something that you're forced to do.

 

No, you're not forced to use it, but in many cases forced to use it to find groups since everyone has jumped on the bandwagon. What's called the path of least resistance. Something people have been stating for quite a while now, but no one seems to want to pipe up on it.

[darkcerb]

And that's again where you're failing to see the point. Anyone with a brain can tell it would be optional. You say "It's optional, you don't have to use it if you don't want to, what's the problem?"

 

vs

 

"It's optional, you don't have to use it, but if you don't you will most likely have a reduced amount of groups, or longer times forming groups due to people using the tool rather than not. In some cases you may not be able to get groups at all, but it's optional, you can still choose which way you want to go"

 

There's a rather large difference. The first just says it's optional and they cannot see a problem with it beyond that single point. The second points out the effects of it being optional and what it would do should you choose not to use it. And that's the point, giving someone a choice to or not use a tool, when one choice slowly becomes far more "required" to get a group in a timely fashion, isn't as optional as you push it as.

 

To use the tool is to make a choice, that choice is highlighted right there.

 

You make that choice with all the consequences therein. The option to do otherwise doesn't cease to exist because you've decided that getting a group faster is worth more then "Socializing" and you sacrifice this "community" that you all insist exists, though spamming general and current runs hardly fit either description.

 

Don't pretend choice is taken from you, because there's no logical way that's true.

[Gehoornde]

Good thing I joined the game knowing it didn't have one and the devs had stated they would rather not use it. Wait....

 

I play the game for what it is, not come in and want things changed. I can understand it, you want to like the game the way you want to like it. But I could not even begin to try and force my way of entertainment on another. And that's the thing, the game being the way it is, is not forcing it upon you. It already is like that, you're forcing yourself to play. And in turn, trying to change it to something more favorable to you.

 

^This^ is exactly why I'm a Pro-gamer/Hardcore and you lean more to the casual side? Am I wrong?

 

EAch to his own playstyle, nothng wrong with that imo.

[ispanolfw]

To use the tool is to make a choice, that choice is highlighted right there.

 

You make that choice with all the consequences therein. The option to do otherwise doesn't cease to exist because you've decided that getting a group faster is worth more then "Socializing" and you sacrifice this "community" that you all insist exists, though spamming general and current runs hardly fit either description.

 

Don't pretend choice is taken from you, because there's no logical way that's true.

 

Then touch upon those consequences will you? If you want something, if you want it implemented, point out the negatives in addition to the positives. Don't look at it form just your PoV, look at it from others. For example "I want this because of this(List Reasons), but I can see how it might cause these issues(List Issues) with some people. I would still prefer to have it than not however"

 

You want to emphasize the positives, but not ignore the negatives completely. You want to show that while you understand the possible negatives, you still feel the positives outweigh them. And that's the thing, some people will feel they don't outweigh them, even if you do.

 

And lastly, why do you, or you and some others, continue to insist i'm talking about community? Or that the only way you can find a group now is by spamming?

[Tiddex]

I see grouping up as part of the game. You must get in contact with people and you should do that personally. Asking for lfd / lfr is like "oh there are other people i have to interact with, now thats a problem".

I think its a game changer. And a bad one.

[ispanolfw]

^This^ is exactly why I'm a Pro-gamer/Hardcore and you lean more to the casual side? Am I wrong?

 

EAch to his own playstyle, nothng wrong with that imo.

 

Casual? You might want to define what you consider hardcore and/or casual before making that claim. In that if you explain what you consider each, I may be able to respond better.

 

But I will say this, when I look at my computers, my gaming set up, I don't consider myself casual.

 

Oh and I play that way because I Respect that the devs likely had certain plans for a game. If I don't like said plans, that doesn't make it a bad game, just not one I would play. I don't go in thinking that just because I like the theme and nothing else, I should start piping up and having them change it to suit me.

Edited February 14, 2012 by ispanolfw

[oursacrifice]

"It's optional, you don't have to use it, but if you don't you will most likely have a reduced amount of groups, or longer times forming groups due to people using the tool rather than not. In some cases you may not be able to get groups at all, but it's optional, you can still choose which way you want to go"

 

Versus the people now that cannot get groups at all because of the server they chose to roll on, or the times that they can actually play?

[darkcerb]

Then touch upon those consequences will you? If you want something, if you want it implemented, point out the negatives in addition to the positives. Don't look at it form just your PoV, look at it from others. For example "I want this because of this(List Reasons), but I can see how it might cause these issues(List Issues) with some people. I would still prefer to have it than not however"

 

You want to emphasize the positives, but not ignore the negatives completely. You want to show that while you understand the possible negatives, you still feel the positives outweigh them. And that's the thing, some people will feel they don't outweigh them, even if you do.

 

And lastly, why do you, or you and some others, continue to insist i'm talking about community? Or that the only way you can find a group now is by spamming?

 

Because I disagree that the consequences as put forward exist.

 

Perhaps you can describe them to me? you must know, you keep insisting they exist.