Give me a legitimate reason to NOT have a LFD tool.

[Laylla]

Read the post I... posted (O.o) right after that one, on the top of page 84 I believe.

 

The posts are coming faster than I can write lol

[Arsynic]

The random instant group is inferior in many ways. You've taken all control of group creation and management away from the players. Even if all four players are good, they've never played with each other before and don't know each other's tendancies. But then you add the guy who is undergeared and it drops the quality. That guy might not get into a PUG if the leader thought he needed more content-appropriate gear. Add in the guy who doesn't know how to play his class very well and it drops the quality more. Add in a guy who likes to be a jerk and it drops through the floor. Those people are far less likely to be involved in a standard PUG, because the players create those groups and make those decisions. Once you introduce random instant groups into the game, they become the defacto base group for it, and that is why you're not going to see a difference after the fact. Because the game is tuned for those groups, like WoW already is.

 

There are so many ways to improve people's ability to get groups without going to those extremes. We need more comprehensive grouping options, where players have more control, not a simple tool that tosses four random people together.

I just don't see this.

 

When I type "LFG" and I get PMs asking for an invite, I don't perform a damn job interview to make sure they're a "good fit". As mentioned earlier, I've had great groups (added friends afterward) and horrible groups with people who button mash and die constantly. How would a better LFG system be any different? One method provides random people that you don't know and the other system includes random people that you don't know.

[Senatsu]

A-freaking-men. But the MMO elites will tell you that you shouldn't be playing the game. The fact that you can only play for an hour makes you a "casual" (read: leper). They want to make sure that the world they invest so much time and effort into isn't ruined by people like us who have no choice but to invest our time in RL pursuits. I wonder if EA and Bioware could survive with just this hardcore, elitist minority.

 

The only choice I think BW has is to either nerf content so that people can play most of the content solo or include a LFD tool. At the end of the day, appealing to the broadest audience keeps the light on and milk in the bellies of Bioware babies. But I'm sure the vocal minority would rather spend $1,000 a month for a subscription than accommodate the unwashed masses. I mean, they might as well spend a mortgage payment on a sub since they can afford to sit around for 3 hours LFG.

 

I have a full-time job and a family. The clock starts ticking as soon as I click "Login".

 

If you just spam general for a group, of course it will take ages.

 

Today I saw a tank looking for a group for 3-4 different HMs. I whispered him, asking if he wanted to come for X HM and he said yes. I invited him, sent into general "LF2M for X HM need healer and DPS" within 3-4 seconds I got a DPSer, after writing that into chat for 2-3 minutes, I got a healer. So it took me 5-6 minutes to get a group together after logging in

 

It really isn't hard, it just requires you to whisper some people and send out maybe one or two LFM messages into general chat. If you're lucky it takes you 1 minute, unlucky it takes you maybe 10. Do you really think an LFD system will do it faster just because it's automated and cross server?

 

I understand it's not the same for low-population servers, but there are plenty of measures that can be taken to aid them. Such as incentives to join a low-pop server, server transfers, hell, even merging some low-pop servers would do it. But going straight into an LFD system does nothing good for the community, takes more time for both the players to find a group and the developers and designers to implement, then there is the HIGH risk of heavy nerfs and substantially reduced content quality in the long-term.

Edited February 15, 2012 by Senatsu

[Senatsu]

The posts are coming faster than I can write lol

 

Annoying isn't it

[ferroz]

The random instant group is inferior in many ways. You've taken all control of group creation and management away from the players.

No, I can still invite the people I want. I do that in wow on a regular basis.

 

Hell, in wow I can even invite people who aren't on my server.

 

You still have exactly as much control over the people in my group as you want to have.

 

Even if all four players are good, they've never played with each other before and don't know each other's tendancies.

Maybe they haven't. I've gotten grouped with people I knew in wow's LFD. Hell, I even got grouped with a guildie once (she didn't see me come on).

 

Maybe it's not the norm, but it's silly to pretend it doesn't happen.

 

But then you add the guy who is undergeared and it drops the quality. That guy might not get into a PUG if the leader thought he needed more content-appropriate gear. Add in the guy who doesn't know how to play his class very well and it drops the quality more.

I'm fine with these people.

 

Personally, this sounds like you're expecting to be carried, or at least have things easy. I'm fine with these "baddies" because I enjoy a challenge.

 

Add in a guy who likes to be a jerk and it drops through the floor.

/boot

problem solved.

 

 

Once you introduce random instant groups into the game, they become the defacto base group for it, and that is why you're not going to see a difference after the fact. =

No, I'd say that in wow, the defacto base group is pretty competent, and I get more blazing fast groups as I do bad one. I'm not going to accept that your experience is the norm over mine without some sort of additional evidence.

 

 

Because the game is tuned for those groups, like WoW already is.

Is means current tense. Do you mean that it is currently tuned for those groups.

 

Or are you speculating that they will be tuned for those groups in the future. That's just speculation, not fact.

Edited February 15, 2012 by ferroz

[illgot]

I think I found a reason.

 

There are so many bugs with the bosses and mini-bosses that an LFD tool would only make it more apparent to everyone.

[ferroz]

Today I saw a tank looking for a group for 3-4 different HMs. I whispered him, asking if he wanted to come for X HM and he said yes. I invited him, sent into general "LF2M for X HM need healer and DPS" within 3-4 seconds I got a DPSer, after writing that into chat for 2-3 minutes, I got a healer. So it took me 5-6 minutes to get a group together after logging in

The other night I watch someone spamming in fleet for a healer for more than an hour and a half.

 

Edit: Actually, to be honest, it was at least an hour and a half. He was spamming when I logged in, and was still spamming when I logged out an hour and a half later. For all I know, he could have been going 6 hours without a response.

 

Do you really think an LFD system will do it faster just because it's automated and cross server?

Faster than an hour and a half? sure. Edited February 15, 2012 by ferroz

[Senatsu]

The other night I watch someone spamming in fleet for a healer for more than an hour and a half.

 

Edit: Actually, to be honest, it was at least an hour and a half. He was spamming when I logged in, and was still spamming when I logged out an hour and a half later. For all I know, he could have been going 6 hours without a response.

 

Faster than an hour and a half? sure.

 

Seems to be a huge lack of healers on all servers. DPS > Tank > Heals appears to be the preferred play-style. Same on most servers, I hear.

 

I meant, does he think it's faster than my method rather than your post that I didn't even mention -.-

[ferroz]

Point out to me where I ever said that people who use a cross server tool are lesser humans..?

that's what lowest common denominator means.

[Taroen]

Is that in anyway un-clear, you are calling people who use the cross server tool the lowest common denominator and I am saying they are just people and all that changes is the volume in which these people group.

 

No... I am calling the GROUPS that are formed from it the lowest common denominator. Even if you get lucky and all four players are good, it still would be a lesser group than a standard pug.

[ferroz]

I did not ask if the content is nerfed due to more people running it. I asked if the content is too hard for some people, should they not be allowed to run more content as well?

They are allowed to run it.

 

In other words, should some people be excluded from content?

What do you mean by "excluded from content"

 

I can't really answer until you do a better job of defining your terms.

Edited February 15, 2012 by ferroz

[darkcerb]

No... I am calling the GROUPS that are formed from it the lowest common denominator. Even if you get lucky and all four players are good, it still would be a lesser group than a standard pug.

 

A standard group being one formed from spamming general and whispers amongst strangers.

 

Your argument makes even less sense now. You realize it's the exact same thing just more of it like we've been saying all along?

[DarthKhaos]

I got healers. I made one of each class and split each AC over the 2 factions. Once the AC class can heal I'm healin and once the AC can tank I'm tankin. Only exception at the moment is my Jedi Shadow who's pvpin a lot so no need to be tankin there. When I start back PvEin with that char (doubtful cause I got other chars for my PvEin goodness) I'll tank with it.

 

That aside a lot of players don't want to tank or heal because of the attitude of a lot of players towards them. It's a thankless job and will get less thankful if a fully automated cross server LFG system is put in place. This will cause the # of available healers & tanks to decline and well you know.

[Taroen]

I just don't see this.

 

When I type "LFG" and I get PMs asking for an invite, I don't perform a damn job interview to make sure they're a "good fit". As mentioned earlier, I've had great groups (added friends afterward) and horrible groups with people who button mash and die constantly. How would a better LFG system be any different? One method provides random people that you don't know and the other system includes random people that you don't know.

 

Because with the group you created you have options. If one guy asks you for an invite and he has horrible gear that wouldn't be up to that level of content, you're not forced to invite him. If one guy likes to be a complete jerk, you have the option to not invite him. If one guy is putting on gear that isn't even for his class just so he can wear purples and have a higher gear score, you're not stuck with him.

 

Random and cross-server aspects in any system are awful. There are so many ways to enhance people's ability to get groups without going to that extreme.

[Taroen]

A standard group being one formed from spamming general and whispers amongst strangers.

 

Your argument makes even less sense now. You realize it's the exact same thing just more of it like we've been saying all along?

 

My argument doesn't make sense to you because you keep insisting on making up my position for me. Try arguing against my actual position, instead of the one you created in your head.

[darkcerb]

I got healers. I made one of each class and split each AC over the 2 factions. Once the AC class can heal I'm healin and once the AC can tank I'm tankin. Only exception at the moment is my Jedi Shadow who's pvpin a lot so no need to be tankin there. When I start back PvEin with that char (doubtful cause I got other chars for my PvEin goodness) I'll tank with it.

 

That aside a lot of players don't want to tank or heal because of the attitude of a lot of players towards them. It's a thankless job and will get less thankful if a fully automated cross server LFG system is put in place. This will cause the # of available healers & tanks to decline and well you know.

 

Except all that changes is the volume of groups, the attitude towards them doesn't change.

 

Feel like we've been here before, and you're carefully stepping around the fact that the pool of players is increased 10 fold or more.

[ferroz]

No... I am calling the GROUPS that are formed from it the lowest common denominator.

please... be honest with yourself. You called out 3 specific types of baddies as being the cause of these lcd groups. You're calling them lesser human beings.

 

Even if you get lucky and all four players are good, it still would be a lesser group than a standard pug.

THat's pretty standard. Getting lucky = a 3 other players are amazing. Getting unlucky = we have someone who's either under geared for the content, not good at their class, or a jerk.

 

EDIT: were you going to get aroudn to explaining how adding code to add a instant grouping xserver tool causes nerfs to the content? Because I still haven't seen anything that supports that claim.

Edited February 15, 2012 by ferroz

[valgar]

It stops you from acting like an ******e. Plain and simple you can not run from your reputation on a single server, that alone is enough to not have one.

[ferroz]

My argument doesn't make sense to you because you keep insisting on making up my position for me. Try arguing against my actual position, instead of the one you created in your head.

Your position is that an instant grouping xserver tool causes content nerfs. You have yet to support that in any way.

[DarthKhaos]

Except all that changes is the volume of groups, the attitude towards them doesn't change.

 

Feel like we've been here before, and you're carefully stepping around the fact that the pool of players is increased 10 fold or more.

More players, more dps to satisfy, more anti social people, more idiots, more, more more. I am acknowledging the more.

[Taroen]

please... be honest with yourself. You called out 3 specific types of baddies as being the cause of these lcd groups. You're calling them lesser human beings.

 

Are you claiming that those people don't exist..? With a random finder you're stuck with those people, and that makes those groups, that are put together in that way, vastly inferior to any other form of grouping. Even the basic PUG.

 

As for your edit... It's happened before. When you make that group the standard group for the game, the content gets tuned to that.

 

Random cross-server sucks. There are much better ways. We need more comprehensive options for players... Not some fail tool that tosses 4 people together at random.

[PjPablo]

Because with the group you created you have options. If one guy asks you for an invite and he has horrible gear that wouldn't be up to that level of content, you're not forced to invite him. If one guy likes to be a complete jerk, you have the option to not invite him. If one guy is putting on gear that isn't even for his class just so he can wear purples and have a higher gear score, you're not stuck with him.

 

Random and cross-server aspects in any system are awful. There are so many ways to enhance people's ability to get groups without going to that extreme.

 

And in LFD you can kick people if you so desire, even though I have rarely had to do so.

 

Groups from x-server queues are not awful in my opinion. Good thing it is an optional tool that one can typically decide whether or not to use. I just hope BW adds this soon or they are going to negatively impact their sub numbers.

[Taroen]

Your position is that an instant grouping xserver tool causes content nerfs. You have yet to support that in any way.

 

Untrue. I have supported it many times. You fail at reading.

[ferroz]

Untrue. I have supported it many times. You fail at reading.

no... you haven't. You've asserted that it was true, and that's it.

 

The very fact that you responded like this speaks very clearly: you have no way of defending that position.

[Taroen]

And in LFD you can kick people if you so desire, even though I have rarely had to do so.

 

Groups from x-server queues are not awful in my opinion. Good thing it is an optional tool that one can typically decide whether or not to use. I just hope BW adds this soon or they are going to negatively impact their sub numbers.

 

They're going to negatively impact their sub numbers if they go too far with it. They need a tool, but it needs to be better than WoW's, and it can be. MUCH better.

 

People who are having trouble finding groups CAN be helped without going to your extreme.