Give me a legitimate reason to NOT have a LFD tool.

[Kaelshi]

Those servers would likely contain the best/most progessed players/guilds. It'd only be a matter of time before they were full.

 

yes that makes complete sense because those guilds would not be able to advance on servers with LFG?

 

This is the stupdity of the argument against LFG.

 

If your in a guild with players who regularly raid/group and all that stuff together - LFG will not effect you in the slightest. If you were in a guild that fell apart because of LFG your guild sucked man, sorry, it had nothing to do with lfg tool.

[Lerthan]

For me the issue is not the LFG tool, for me its the other factors that a poorly implemented LFG tool does not resolve. I am all for an LFG tool, however that tool needs to resolve those other factors otherwise it is not as good as it needs to be.

 

First and foremost is the ability to form groups without spamming chat for the heroic areas or multiplay quests on the planets. A random LFG tool does not resolve this issue.

 

Putting player choice in who we group with, yes you can have lists of friends and people on your ignore list. However if none of your friends are on, you still run the chance of being forced to group with somebody that you don't want to. A random LFG tool needs to allow player choice in who they group with.

 

It provides no other option for those who do not wish to use it other then them spamming chat. A good LFG tool will also take this into account.

 

Baiscly Item number 2 is peoples main reason for not wanting one as honestly a random tool does encourage some types of behavior and provides no option to allow a player to refuse to group with said players. This is not an issue to be ignored but rather resolved.

 

Issue 1 and 2, are honestly the biggest flaws with a random LFG system. It gives nothing but dungeons or flashpoints as they are called here. Something needs to be put in place with a good LFG tool that will take these into account.

 

Simply put it will require the use of two systems. Both of these systems can and should work seamlessly together to provide the functionality that we as a player base need while still resolving above issues.

 

First and foremost is the random LFG tool. It randomly puts together folks and allows them to run the instance of there choice or a random instance. However with this, players need an option anytime somebody leaves the group or the instance is done to say if they want to group with these players again or not. If you select no, then you never will be put in a group with said player ever again.

 

In this way it takes care of the D-Bag issue that players bring up, a D-Bag player sooner or later will run out of folks to group with. It also puts the choice back into the players hands of who they get to group with.

 

Secondly we need a passive tool. This tool you pick what instance you want, or quest content that you want on a planet. It works server wide for the questing, but can be made to work cross server for the flashpoints. You can even throw operations into it, thereby allowing operation pugs to quickly be put together without having to spam chat. This resolves two issues. One now players doing the quests out there have a tool to quickly find people that want to run those quests without spamming chat. It also provides another option for those who do not wish to use the random tool to quickly put together groups for that content. Also players still have a choice in who they group with.

 

From all the discussion on said topic this is the only thing I can come up with that provides what is needed while still resolving the issues that people have with an LFG tool.

[MalignX]

Where did they say they are adding a cross server lfg and when did they say they are going to do it?

 

Not gonna bother looking up the post, but I am sure you can, but when they originally posted that they were adding a LFG tool in the upcoming patch, they said they weren't considering X-Server with it's implementation. Less than 3 weeks later they said in a interview it was something they are seriously exploring. I'm sure you can find them if you look.

[harpuax]

because the number of people that are willing to form the group is to small. A match making system takes that away!

 

If people are not willing to form a group then they shouldn't do group content. Why would people support a tool that takes away what some of us prefer?

 

And I don't believe people want a LFG tool because the are unwilling to form groups. Most are sick of spamming chat, which means they are putting forth some effort. They want the tool because there are not enough people for form a group with.

 

So a tool with a list of people who want to run is fine, but no need to have a que.

[Bomama]

Because its value on low population servers would be pretty small and it would do nothing to even poorly alleviate their fundamental problem of being low population, mostly.

 

Server merging basically isn't an option in any practical consideration. To merge servers this early in a game's lifespan would be tantamount unto calling in sick on your third day of work.

 

A bad sign in a big way, in short, and not the sort of message Bioware or EA would be well served to send.

 

In that respect, the actual best answer is prevented by politics and public relations; fricken tragic, innit?

 

LFD on high pop servers would probably work just fine though; no dispute there. Unfortunately, again, low pop servers would still be left straggling, folks would still have a lot of cause to complain on those servers and queue times, even on high pop servers, would probably be pretty long.

 

An LFD tool of this variety is most optimally employed where the largest number of players can benefit by being able to use it, hence why some of us push for cross-server.

 

We know there are issues of accelerated and heightened exposure of individuals to a greater number of people (and thus a greater number of crappy people in that number) in a shorter amount of time; we know that this readily leads some to think that LFD makes there be more crappy people because, again, you can be exposed to more of them more quickly and more regularly than in any other circumstance.

 

We also know that crappy people can get away with being crappy for longer spans of time because its harder for a given server population to get all social-darwin on them; not impossible, just harder.

 

Some of us determine that the value of the system; the benefits of it to everyone across all the servers; justify the unpleasant incidentals that come along with it.

 

Some very much do not.

 

Well, my suggestion for LFD would be cross server, it would just look to your own server first. High pop servers would be more likely to fill groups intra-server, and low pop ones would be able to pool from the whole battlegroup.

[TonyIommi]

Stephen Reid had a tweet or post about it. Let me dig it up.

 

http://toroz.com.au/2012/02/stephen-reid-qa-summary-transcript/

 

 

Simon – Any plans for an LFG tool?

SR: Definitely being looked at including cross-server Flashpoint tool. Definitely wanting to do.

[Amiracle]

Not gonna bother looking up the post, but I am sure you can, but when they originally posted that they were adding a LFG tool in the upcoming patch, they said they weren't considering X-Server with it's implementation. Less than 3 weeks later they said in a interview it was something they are seriously exploring. I'm sure you can find them if you look.

 

 

Just what I thought, they didn't say it.

 

Its just you reading more into it then what was said.

Edited February 14, 2012 by Amiracle

[AmirTheButcher]

Because I want some decent challenge from this game, I don't want to 1 click and get a full party... Forming groups and being social is a part of the challenge for me.

You just want everything ready on ur plate.

[Zenehre]

yup - favoring sociability over playabilty sure worked out for Star Wars Galaxy huh.

 

Your dumb statement suggests that I said anything about eliminating any social aspects from games, which is incredibly disingenuous but what I've come to expect from most people online.

 

 

If the argument to not implement any reasonable change is because it will discourage me BONDING with other people on my own server - then yes, that is absolutely insane.

 

If you want to implement social activites and socializing - great, I'm all for that but are you suggesting you would support something like - from now on, in order to remain in a dungeon group or raid group, you msut send at least one group message 3 times every minute, or you will be auto-removed from the group - this will encourage socializing because this is as you said this is a MASSIVELY MULTIPLAYER ONLINE ROLE PLAYING GAME and if you dont want to be social, go play skyrim.

 

Your hyperbole is astounding. And the fact that you resort to personal attacks means your debating skills are truly superior.

 

Do you deny that the only difference between an mmorpg like SWG, WoW, EQ, etc, and RPGs like The Elder Scrolls, Final Fantasy, and the like, is the multiplayer content? (i.e. the social part)

 

Your example is completely over the top and irrelevant, as it would never happen anywhere, and you seem to be forgetting that in my first post here, i actually stated that we do need a server-wide LFG system, since there is no way to communicate easily with people who are on different planets or are in different instances of your own planet. We agree on that point.

 

The only difference between our arguments, is that you dont think having access to every single player on your server of your faction who meets the level range is enough people to find groups in a timely manner, and want to expand that pool of players to include several times that amount of people you'll never meet again.

 

 

so to restate for a third time, since you don't seem to read my points, and only reply to the bit that you disagree with,

 

"we do need a server-wide LFG system, since there is no way to communicate easily with people who are on different planets or are in different instances of your own planet."

 

Hopefully now you comprehend my position in its actuality instead of falsely assuming ludicrous worst-case scenarios

[Kaelshi]

Just what I thought, they didn't say it.

 

lol lazy troll.

[Bomama]

Seem to remember Bioware assigning Servers. I don't care what server the players in LFG come from. But ask any more asinine questions you have rattling around in there.

 

Ah, well BW didn't assign my server...guess I missed that. I do like your red text though.

[MalignX]

Just what I thought, they didn't say it.

 

Its just you reading more into it then what was said.

 

Whaaaatever makes you feel better. Guess you don't have anything to worry about then?

[MalignX]

Ah, well BW didn't assign my server...guess I missed that. I do like your red text though.

 

I do what I can.

[Vlaxitov]

yes that makes complete sense because those guilds would not be able to advance on servers with LFG?

 

Top progression guilds in all mmos are the most exclusive.

[Bomama]

yes that makes complete sense because those guilds would not be able to advance on servers with LFG?

 

This is the stupdity of the argument against LFG.

 

If your in a guild with players who regularly raid/group and all that stuff together - LFG will not effect you in the slightest. If you were in a guild that fell apart because of LFG your guild sucked man, sorry, it had nothing to do with lfg tool.

 

I'm not opposed to any LFG tool, so don't bother.

 

I'm just speculating. Either way, it wouldn't affect people who preferred cross server lfg.

[Kaelshi]

Your hyperbole is astounding. And the fact that you resort to personal attacks means your debating skills are truly superior.

 

Do you deny that the only difference between an mmorpg like SWG, WoW, EQ, etc, and RPGs like The Elder Scrolls, Final Fantasy, and the like, is the multiplayer content? (i.e. the social part)

 

Your example is completely over the top and irrelevant, as it would never happen anywhere, and you seem to be forgetting that in my first post here, i actually stated that we do need a server-wide LFG system, since there is no way to communicate easily with people who are on different planets or are in different instances of your own planet. We agree on that point.

 

The only difference between our arguments, is that you dont think having access to every single player on your server of your faction who meets the level range is enough people to find groups in a timely manner, and want to expand that pool of players to include several times that amount of people you'll never meet again.

 

 

so to restate for a third time, since you don't seem to read my points, and only reply to the bit that you disagree with,

 

"we do need a server-wide LFG system, since there is no way to communicate easily with people who are on different planets or are in different instances of your own planet."

 

Hopefully now you comprehend my position in its actuality instead of falsely assuming ludicrous worst-case scenarios

 

 

You are serious? The only difference between WoW and Skyrim is the multiplayer aspect?

 

I read your post but suggesting the only differences between games like WoW, EQ, DAOC, UO and games like Fallout, elder scroll series, single-player final fantasy games is the social aspect is so incredibly dumb I'm not going to respond to you anymore. I am sure you'll take this as some sort of "I'm right because you arent responding to my individual points".

 

rest assured - dumb post is dumb.

[AmirTheButcher]

Because I want some decent challenge from this game, I don't want to 1 click and get a full party... Forming groups and being social is a part of the challenge for me.

You just want everything ready on ur plate

[Amiracle]

lol lazy troll.

 

If you are going to use what the devs say as your proof than its on you to provide that proof.

 

Not me to find it.

[TonyIommi]

You are serious? The only difference between WoW and Skyrim is the multiplayer aspect?

 

I read your post but suggesting the only differences between games like WoW, EQ, DAOC, UO and games like Fallout, elder scroll series, single-player final fantasy games is the social aspect is so incredibly dumb I'm not going to respond to you anymore. I am sure you'll take this as some sort of "I'm right because you arent responding to my individual points".

 

rest assured - dumb post is dumb.

 

Actually I'm curious what is the difference? I mean it its not the multiplayer aspect than how is warcraft fundamentally different from skyrim. Every reason I can think of all involves working with other people. Otherwise if you played the game by yourself you may as well be playing Skyrim.

[MalignX]

If you are going to use what the devs say as your proof than its on you to provide that proof.

 

Not me to find it.

What I said was "They went from not considering it officially" to "Officially exploring it as an option," in under a month. No where did I say "The Devs said they're putting in X-Server! Woo Hoo".

[TonyIommi]

What I said was "They went from not considering it officially" to "Officially exploring it as an option," in under a month. No where did I say "The Devs said they're putting in X-Server! Woo Hoo".

 

Actually they said they definitely want to do it. Here's SR direct quote.

 

 

Simon – Any plans for an LFG tool?

SR: Definitely being looked at including cross-server Flashpoint tool. Definitely wanting to do.

[Kaelshi]

I'm not opposed to any LFG tool, so don't bother.

 

I'm just speculating. Either way, it wouldn't affect people who preferred cross server lfg.

 

 

your suggestion though was that guilds/players would flock to servers with no lfg tool. That suggests LFG hinders those guilds.

 

Lets say in the next month they implement this tool.

 

What is the benefit to a guild to decide and move their entire playerbase to that server that does not have lfg? There would be NO benefit because as the guy above you said those guilds are exclusive and more to the point they are not USING that tool. It has NO effect on them. If anything it removes, as another poster said, a pool of players to recruit from.

 

A lot of players in WoW who are not in good guilds use LFG to play content. They apply and are eventually accepted into guilds that raid/group regularly and stop using it.

 

That would mean a lot of ppl would have a choice to make - join a server that does not have LFG and risk not being accepted into a guild right away and having your ability to experience content(and get better gear in the process to show your capable of being in a good guild) curtailed or join an LFG server so if you cant/dont find a guild that fits your time etc. you can at least still experience content via LFG.

 

LFG is irrelevant to top guilds and it would be irrelevant to which server they choose to play on.

[MalignX]

Actually they said they definitely want to do it. Here's SR direct quote.

 

Woo hoo.

[Zenehre]

You are serious? The only difference between WoW and Skyrim is the multiplayer aspect?

 

I read your post but suggesting the only differences between games like WoW, EQ, DAOC, UO and games like Fallout, elder scroll series, single-player final fantasy games is the social aspect is so incredibly dumb I'm not going to respond to you anymore. I am sure you'll take this as some sort of "I'm right because you arent responding to my individual points".

 

rest assured - dumb post is dumb.

 

So educate me. What are the other differences?

 

You play a character, you complete quests and kill mobs to gain levels, skill points, and progressively gather gear to allow you beat progressively harder content to get even better gear (and see the end of the story, Thank you Bioware). Thats all an mmorpg is too, only you add in the group content which adds another element of scaling, small groups to gear up for larger groups, as well as a competitive aspect in the form of player versus player. The massively multiplayer part IS the difference. To assume otherwise is pure ignorance and stupidity on your part (see? i can call you names too. cute isn't it.)

[harpuax]

For me the issue is not the LFG tool, for me its the other factors that a poorly implemented LFG tool does not resolve. I am all for an LFG tool, however that tool needs to resolve those other factors otherwise it is not as good as it needs to be.

 

First and foremost is the ability to form groups without spamming chat for the heroic areas or multiplay quests on the planets. A random LFG tool does not resolve this issue.

 

Putting player choice in who we group with, yes you can have lists of friends and people on your ignore list. However if none of your friends are on, you still run the chance of being forced to group with somebody that you don't want to. A random LFG tool needs to allow player choice in who they group with.

 

It provides no other option for those who do not wish to use it other then them spamming chat. A good LFG tool will also take this into account.

 

Baiscly Item number 2 is peoples main reason for not wanting one as honestly a random tool does encourage some types of behavior and provides no option to allow a player to refuse to group with said players. This is not an issue to be ignored but rather resolved.

 

Issue 1 and 2, are honestly the biggest flaws with a random LFG system. It gives nothing but dungeons or flashpoints as they are called here. Something needs to be put in place with a good LFG tool that will take these into account.

 

Simply put it will require the use of two systems. Both of these systems can and should work seamlessly together to provide the functionality that we as a player base need while still resolving above issues.

 

First and foremost is the random LFG tool. It randomly puts together folks and allows them to run the instance of there choice or a random instance. However with this, players need an option anytime somebody leaves the group or the instance is done to say if they want to group with these players again or not. If you select no, then you never will be put in a group with said player ever again.

 

In this way it takes care of the D-Bag issue that players bring up, a D-Bag player sooner or later will run out of folks to group with. It also puts the choice back into the players hands of who they get to group with.

 

Secondly we need a passive tool. This tool you pick what instance you want, or quest content that you want on a planet. It works server wide for the questing, but can be made to work cross server for the flashpoints. You can even throw operations into it, thereby allowing operation pugs to quickly be put together without having to spam chat. This resolves two issues. One now players doing the quests out there have a tool to quickly find people that want to run those quests without spamming chat. It also provides another option for those who do not wish to use the random tool to quickly put together groups for that content. Also players still have a choice in who they group with.

 

From all the discussion on said topic this is the only thing I can come up with that provides what is needed while still resolving the issues that people have with an LFG tool.

 

Great ideas! I totaly understand what you are trying to do here and I like the concept.

 

1 issue though. If you have a random/que type system in addition to a "make your own group" system, how will the "make your own group" list get populated if more of the community just uses the que system. If more take the random group that gives the "make your own group" people little left to form a group from and vice-versa. This seems like it would divide the available people and make both systems harder to find groups in.

Edited February 14, 2012 by harpuax