silvercgull Posted February 13, 2012 Share Posted February 13, 2012 The op part of the sage is that pebble throw has a slow. Remove the slow and the melee QQ disappears. Melee players are the ones who start every QQ thread about sorcs/mercs. You are all pathetic Ty for giving the classes you claim as OP free kills because you refuse to understand your opponent Not going to tell you L2P but know your enemy before you fight him and you might actually have nothing to QQ about. /gasp Remove the slow and the class is useless lol. Want your cake and eat it too? Pfffft nerf all survival abilities in every class then, you'd make a great BW developer with your thouhht process. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Redmarx Posted February 13, 2012 Share Posted February 13, 2012 (edited) Can you please start using objectivity. You loose all your credibility when your counterargument always contain some form of sentence telling me that I do not know how to play my class or that I sux or that I dont have enough knoledge in this game. Can we please stop this now? Objectivity is the keyword for any kind of analysis if you want it to be taken seriously. GLHF in the real world if your counterargument is always going to be "if you dont understand my point of view, then you are just bad at what you are doing". Now finally to the point: The problem with the sage/sorc is that it has too much stuff compared to other classes. The core of the class itself is much stronger than any other class in game. If you compare the consular to the smuggler most people will laugh at the smuggler. Simply remove some of all the utility or give other classes more utility should balance it out. Also adding root effects to the resolve problem and remove the ability to gain 100% Snare effects should also balance out the problem. Source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Objectivity_%28science%29 Yep, you're bad, we get it. You're like a bricklayer explaining the large hadron collider to a quantum physicist. Honestly, I don't know where you get the nerve. Edited February 13, 2012 by Redmarx Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orangerascal Posted February 13, 2012 Share Posted February 13, 2012 (edited) The problem with the sage/sorc is that it has too much stuff compared to other classes. The core of the class itself is much stronger than any other class in game. If you compare the consular to the smuggler most people will laugh at the smuggler. Playing both a scoundrel and a sage I don't understand how you can even make such an assumption: scoundrels get: -------------------- aoe mez stun shield 45s 3s immunity to melee and ranged attacks steath w/ vanish a group stealth buff snare interrupt sap as a sage: ------------------- a rescue shield aoe knoback sprint stun mez snare interrupt If you're a scoundrel and complain you don't have enough tools ... what can I say, but you're a baddie. Did I mention their ridiculous burst. Edited February 13, 2012 by Orangerascal Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zlashie Posted February 13, 2012 Share Posted February 13, 2012 Remove the slow and the class is useless lol. Want your cake and eat it too? Pfffft nerf all survival abilities in every class then, you'd make a great BW developer with your thouhht process. I dont know if you are aware of this but other ranged classes dont have: Bubble + Sprint + Knockback With root + Stun + Breakable CC + Statis Slow. removing slow on your basic ability wont remove your ability to keep enemies at bay: it only means you have to choose between damage and CC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zlashie Posted February 13, 2012 Share Posted February 13, 2012 Playing both a scoundrel and a sage I don't understand how you can even make such an assumption: scoundrels get: -------------------- aoe mez stun shield 45s 3s immunity to melee and ranged attacks steath w/ vanish a group stealth buff snare interrupt sap as a sage: ------------------- a rescue shield aoe knoback sprint stun mez snare interrupt If you're a scoundrel and complain you don't have enough tools ... what can I say, but you're a baddie. Actually I never complained that I lack it. I was talking in general. Again can we go back to objectivity? This "lol you sux" argument doesnt bring anything useful to the table. Infact we dont know eachother so we dont know how good we are. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Redmarx Posted February 13, 2012 Share Posted February 13, 2012 Actually I never complained that I lack it. I was talking in general. Again can we go back to objectivity? This "lol you sux" argument doesnt bring anything useful to the table. Infact we dont know eachother so we dont know how good we are. Again, it's obvious you're not good. It's because the first thing you learn when you get good is that sorcs and tracerspam mercs are not that strong in PVP. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orangerascal Posted February 13, 2012 Share Posted February 13, 2012 (edited) Actually I never complained that I lack it. I was talking in general. Again can we go back to objectivity? This "lol you sux" argument doesnt bring anything useful to the table. Infact we dont know eachother so we dont know how good we are. But in this case the argument that a sage has more utility than a scoundrel is clearly false. You post about objectivity, without posting actual facts and provide subjective statements like: 'If you compare the consular to the smuggler most people will laugh at the smuggler.' I think someone needs to take their own advice. Especially with statements like: 'Simply remove some of all the utility or give other classes more utility should balance it out.' and using the smuggler as an example. Should we list all the other class abilities to see if sorcs truly have more abilities? That's objective right?. I've listed other classes abilities in other posts. Tanks by far have the most utility as it should be. People's anecdotal experiences that they have less abilities are just that ... anecdotal. Edited February 13, 2012 by Orangerascal Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
besbin Posted February 13, 2012 Share Posted February 13, 2012 (edited) I play watchman and any sage/sorcerer is a free kill, you don't need to level the opposing class up to 50 to learn this. I agree that the class isn't overpowered and people should learn how to counter it. I can tell the amount of bad sentinels there must be by the fact that sorcerers run up to me and attack honestly believing they can get a kill rather than doing what they should do and run away;). The only time the legion of sorcerers can be annoying is with their combined utility and how resolve sucks. Dont nerf them. Edited February 13, 2012 by besbin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zlashie Posted February 13, 2012 Share Posted February 13, 2012 I am going to leave this thread. Because I think resorting to personal attacking is very low. I would hope people had the courtesy to have some mutual respect. Almost every counterargument you pressent is calling me a "Baddie" or "sux" etc. Funny enough I have never mentioned anything personal about myself. You conclude that I must be a crap player with lack of knoledge simply because you do not want your class to be touched. And who would want that? If I loved my class I would get furious if someone tried to touch it. From my point of view this is really about seeing it from multiple sides. Finally its no reason to discuss such a topic like this with so narrow minded subjective people. */out* Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrandMike Posted February 13, 2012 Share Posted February 13, 2012 (edited) I play watchman and any sage/sorcerer is a free kill, you don't need to level the opposing class up to 50 to learn this. I agree that the class isn't overpowered and people should learn how to counter it. I can tell the amount of bad sentinels there must be by the fact that sorcerers run up to me and attack honestly believing they can get a kill rather than doing what they should do and run away;). The only time the legion of sorcerers can be annoying is with their combined utility and how resolve sucks. Dont nerf them. Hey, 99% sentinels/marauders are free kill ;P dont judge people trying to nail your sentinel ha ha Unfortuntely those baddies want sorc/sage nerfed, not because its OP but because they are bad and want free kills (from their perspective, from skilled perspective they are free kills already) Edited February 13, 2012 by GrandMike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jabtiz Posted February 13, 2012 Share Posted February 13, 2012 Again, it's obvious you're not good. It's because the first thing you learn when you get good is that sorcs and tracerspam mercs are not that strong in PVP. I would say that you aren't good because you think a BM geared sorc aren't that good in PvP. I would say you are in fact a moron. Are they OP? not really. Are they the easiest class in the game to play? maybe. Is that why so many button monkeys including the OP play one. You bet your ***. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
me_unknown Posted February 13, 2012 Author Share Posted February 13, 2012 Can you please start using objectivity. tells one of the most less objective posters here. actually i am very objective. but it doesn't matter. your kind has a big talent ignoring this. so i beg you to stop this pig pong of useless statements. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
me_unknown Posted February 13, 2012 Author Share Posted February 13, 2012 I am going to leave this thread. Because I think resorting to personal attacking is very low. you were among the first (if not the first) starting being personal. look at your first post and tell me you wasn't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silvercgull Posted February 13, 2012 Share Posted February 13, 2012 I dont know if you are aware of this but other ranged classes dont have: Bubble + Sprint + Knockback With root + Stun + Breakable CC + Statis Slow. removing slow on your basic ability wont remove your ability to keep enemies at bay: it only means you have to choose between damage and CC This would be an "ability" nerf not the cc bubble or the 2 min escape etc... Not "core" abilities, lets do one nerf then to each class and their "core" ability. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
me_unknown Posted February 13, 2012 Author Share Posted February 13, 2012 but something else. it seems some here understood my op in a manner that interrupt is the one and best counter. no, this was not my intension. i just wanted to point out a very strong one which is one of the must underused, especially against sorcerer. most people make the mistake to spare it until a sage / sorcerer tries to heal. this is plain wrong (except of course if you face a heal sage)! it is understandable because this was often a good idea in other mmos where healing was in general much stronger. but it is a very bad idea here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orangerascal Posted February 13, 2012 Share Posted February 13, 2012 (edited) I am going to leave this thread. Because I think resorting to personal attacking is very low. I would hope people had the courtesy to have some mutual respect. Translation: I was wrong in my premise that sorcs get more utility than other classes because I failed to do something as simple as list and compare their abilities with another class. Hence my petition for removing abilities were unwarranted and I will now leave the thread. Edited February 13, 2012 by Orangerascal Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
me_unknown Posted February 13, 2012 Author Share Posted February 13, 2012 (edited) I dont know if you are aware of this but other ranged classes dont have: Bubble + Sprint + Knockback With root + Stun + Breakable CC + Statis Slow. removing slow on your basic ability wont remove your ability to keep enemies at bay: it only means you have to choose between damage and CC 1. this is no argument for sage/sorc being overpowered. it would mean that other range classes are underpowered against melees if at all 2. other range classes, are capable of significant more single target dps in pvp while eating less dmg (due to armor etc. - depends on class). 3. you know how hast 2 stuns/knockback make you immune to further ones? and how long this immunity lasts? 4. you know that the cd on these are far longer than the cd on jump ? 5. you know that while running we do nearly no damage? we need a proc from channeld or casted spell to have something for the run. 6. you know that if we got catched we can be interrupted (not only by the lockdown interrupt), eat far more damage than we can deliver, get slowed and stunned? this arsenal of utilities is NEEDED! learn to strategically fight against them. it is possible. it does not make this class overpwoered it only makes it an intresting and versatile gameplay. edit: @Orangerascal: your translation is a bit worng. sorcs do actually have more utility than any other class. but they also needed it more than any other class! Edited February 13, 2012 by me_unknown Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orangerascal Posted February 13, 2012 Share Posted February 13, 2012 (edited) edit: @Orangerascal: your translation is a bit worng. sorcs do actually have more utility than any other class. but they also needed it more than any other class! List the abilities by class instead of blanket statements like this please. Prove to me that sorcs get more utility than say a jedi guardian. I've already shown the scoundrel has as much utility as the sage. I don't particularly want to rehash the same argument, with all the callings. The only real class that lack utility is the commando (and it still has a stun and knockback), but that's because they are a heavy hitting dps class with heavy armour. I will concede that sorcs (and all classes) have more utility than commandos. Edited February 13, 2012 by Orangerascal Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zlashie Posted February 13, 2012 Share Posted February 13, 2012 tells one of the most less objective posters here. actually i am very objective. but it doesn't matter. your kind has a big talent ignoring this. so i beg you to stop this pig pong of useless statements. Here is a list of some of your subjective personal attacks by the end of most posts you made. you sir have absolutely no understanding of sages/sorcerers! and you are the reason for this many false information and the superhero image of the sorcerer! you don't know what you are talking about and you lack of logic you do not know what you are talking about. keep that up. maybe more people that till now only beleived your words without thinking for them selfs are seeing what a ******** you are talking. sad but true: l2p! though your observation is confirming what i say: most people are horrible! don't judge by the masses. this never was a good idea. but it is redicules to call a class overpwoered that very most of the players do not understand even a bit! i know you won't understand it but at least stop spamming I know I said I was on my way out but thought I would finish with this. I will also finish with saying: Any subjective opinions you have about your class, I respect that, because how you experience this game depends on your class, but keep in mind there are 7/15 other advanced classes who might see things differently. Last but not least, I am not leaving because I do not have any arguments, but because discussing an analysis and study of a class based on research cannot be done with so many personal attacks and such a narrow subjective mind. Brotip# If you are going to make a post were you defend your class, dont call people who disagree, baddies / horrible people. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
me_unknown Posted February 13, 2012 Author Share Posted February 13, 2012 List the abilities by class instead of blanket statements like this please. Prove to me that sorcs get more utility than say a jedi guardian. i let you tell me what utilities has the guardian. but i tell you about the ones of the sentinel: slow, interrupt (skilled on very low cd) and a channeled stunn, jump (and only if focused skilled an additional jump) this are 4 or 5. sage: it highly depends on build. but the most you can have (though this wouldn't be the best build) is: 1 instant stunn, 1 (skilled instant) maze, 1 knockback (if skilled with 2sec immobilizing afterwards), slow, interrupt, (if skilled) random maze (when the shield weres off it mazes surrounding opponents), 1 sprint. this are 6 but actually for a hybrid it is a bad idea to skill the last one. it will only make your opponent immune to stunns when you need them. so it is actually 5 for a good hybrid. i correct myself: you are right Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Light_Valkyrie Posted February 13, 2012 Share Posted February 13, 2012 Leaving this here for the uneducated bads. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZA7YuWuIF-k&list=FL24BJmu6cYgciWuKOM7d4GA&index=4&feature=plpp_video Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
me_unknown Posted February 13, 2012 Author Share Posted February 13, 2012 @Zlashie : hmm, i wonder why you made that post. i never denied answering you with personal statements. i just replied to fit your posts. but thank you for this useless post again. it fits into the line of the rest of your posts Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orangerascal Posted February 13, 2012 Share Posted February 13, 2012 (edited) i let you tell me what utilities has the guardian. but i tell you about the ones of the sentinel: slow, interrupt (skilled on very low cd) and a channeled stunn, jump (and only if focused skilled an additional jump) this are 4 or 5. sage: it highly depends on build. but the most you can have (though this wouldn't be the best build) is: 1 instant stunn, 1 (skilled instant) maze, 1 knockback (if skilled with 2sec immobilizing afterwards), slow, interrupt, (if skilled) random maze (when the shield weres off it mazes surrounding opponents), 1 sprint. this are 6 but actually for a hybrid it is a bad idea to skill the last one. it will only make your opponent immune to stunns when you need them. so it is actually 5 for a good hybrid. i correct myself: you are right let's not even mention the fact that you are forgetting the awesome group damage and speed buff that that they have, their 3s vanish, their 99% damage reduction, their 50% damage shield .... and so on and so on See what I mean, the sorc has more utility argument just holds no water. Edited February 13, 2012 by Orangerascal Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JuicyFruits Posted February 13, 2012 Share Posted February 13, 2012 this post reminds me of "bright wizards are fine, learn to play!" Especially the "I beat everyone 1v1, not because my class is good, but because no one else know how to play their class" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
da_krall Posted February 13, 2012 Share Posted February 13, 2012 This thread made me lol. I'm sorry, but if you interrupt my Telekinetic Throw i'm still going to kill you. Its not like i'm going to stand there for 4 seconds doing nothing. I will DoT you and i still have Telekinetic Wave plus Project to hit you with. A good Sage/Sorcerer does not lose to interrupt, especially if they are using the Hybrid spec. Yep but your DPS is at least halved - telekinetic wave on a 3 second cast, lol.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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