islossk Posted February 14, 2012 Share Posted February 14, 2012 cause a GS/Sniper will get ***** by a jugg/guard Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thatius Posted February 14, 2012 Share Posted February 14, 2012 cause a GS/Sniper will get ***** by a jugg/guard By a good one? sure. I get smashed by good players of any class though, I rarely lose to a Juggy 1v1 though, and I don't target them unless they're the only thing left to target. A Juggy/Guard will easily get smashed by a good sniper, it boils down to skill..not class imbalance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Valishin Posted February 14, 2012 Share Posted February 14, 2012 Since everyone else seems to be jumping around the issues, let me put some clarification in here because if you are coming here for information you are seeing a lot of conflicting info. First thing to understand is that sniper of any build is not bad. There are no AC builds that are straight up unplayable in pvp or pve so no matter what direction you go you will be able to contribute and steller players or those over geared compaired to their opponents can certinally excel. Now for the clarity on the confusion, there is a bit of a civil war or at the very least two distinct sides of the sniper community with an established non-aggression pact and you are seeing that illustrated in this thread. While there are three spec lines the groups fall mostly into two catagories with Marksman on one side and Lethality on the other. Engineering build players sit back and laugh at the others a lot. Anyway the conflict revolves around two important things, first that lethality spec and some hybrid variations that are focused on lethality are actually very solid if not powerful builds for PvP. On the other side you have the marksman specs who don't view lethality as snipers. In a nut shell what this means is that there is a good pvp spec but it doesn't play anything like what you think of as a sniper. Those who wanted that play style gravitated to marksman but low and behold found out that this is a subpar spec in PvP. Thus when you see people mention that sniper does not match up to other dps classes what you are really reading that markman sniper, which is the spec that actually plays like what people think of as a sniper, does not match up. From a purely mathmatical basis that is absolutely a correct statement. There is an infinite number of reasons that people will give you for why this is the case but when you break it all down, it mostly has to do with the fact that the way damage and defense work in this game that marksman are the most significantly penalized because of the type of damage most of their attacks do. So while on paper they should do top tier damage and you will see an occasional high number, the average damage across a fight doesn't match what a pure DPS who has relatively little else going for them should be doing considering that extra damage is supposed to be the tradeoff for lack of utility. Now it is inevitable that someone is going to come here and point out that there is a melee AC that follows similar limitations, what they won't point out is the difference in crit percentages. Because of a stacking ability of that results in crit percentages that double and nearly triple those of the sniper. Thus the melee not being hindered as much once they have the build up they need because their addiitonal crits more than make up the difference. They also have added utility to boot. Don't take any of this wrong, the sniper is great fun to play and given enough time you will learn to overcome the flaws and rely on the fact that players of other classes don't have to do so and thus you force yourself to become a better player over all just to compete because other classes don't requrie that kind of effort to be competitive. Some people find that appealing, others or arguablly most however do not which is why many of us who like the idea of the MM sniper either give in and make the switch to lethality or considering shelving the character until some balancing occurs. With that said, it really is too early in the game to be doing major rebalancing. If for no other reason, the game needs to allow the populations to settle to norm first to determine how to make adjustments that don't cause more harm to the community than good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Delekii Posted February 14, 2012 Share Posted February 14, 2012 (edited) cause a GS/Sniper will get ***** by a jugg/guard Jugg runs up to me. CC Immune. Instant snipe > ambush > he is pushed away. 9/10 will now charge. Cover Pulse > Leg shot > open up. If I am not doing enough damage because armor and defense mitigate snipers so heavily, its an easy enough task to stun or flash and run. If worst comes to worst and I can't drop them, I wait to see the stacking buff on them that indicates incoming crit high damage smash, and cc them as it pops, and hide, or else just keep running and zagging so it misses half the time. Edited February 14, 2012 by Delekii Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Piriste Posted February 14, 2012 Share Posted February 14, 2012 why nobody plays GS/Snipers: 1. Worst mobility in game 2. Terrible Utility 3. Terrible Survivability 4. Sub par dps They are inferior to sorcs/bh's in ever aspect, there is no reason to play them. SUB PAR DPS? REALLY!!?! did you forget to take your serious pills? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thatius Posted February 14, 2012 Share Posted February 14, 2012 Jugg runs up to me. CC Immune. Instant snipe > ambush > he is pushed away. 9/10 will now charge. Cover Pulse > Leg shot > open up. If I am not doing enough damage because armor and defense mitigate snipers so heavily, its an easy enough task to stun or flash and run. If worst comes to worst and I can't drop them, I wait to see the stacking buff on them that indicates incoming crit high damage smash, and cc them as it pops, and hide, or else just keep running and zagging so it misses half the time. Exactly right, I would only add to this a Shatter Shot at the beginning to reduce armor by 20% and if you're Marksman, throwing Diversion on them to reduce accuraccy by 45% for 9 seconds when they finally get to you and are about to open up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mBass Posted February 14, 2012 Share Posted February 14, 2012 By "open up" you mean hit them with 2 or 3 attacks that take off 1/4 of their hp before they're right back on top of you, beating your *** since legshot breaks after the first hit and you don't have any snares... Right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
patatt Posted February 14, 2012 Share Posted February 14, 2012 This is when good snipers recognize the terrain they're in, see the tactics the enemy is planning on using (DoT, LoS, DoT, LoS) and will pick up and relocate to fight someone else. To be a good sniper in SWTOR you have to see the battles you can't win and avoid them. Sun Tzu said that, true story. The Art of War: A Sniper's Guide to SWTOR.... Seriously though, when someone know to LoS me in huttball, I move on. I don't have to kill everybody, and I could honestly care less if you're spending your time outside of the battle, not going after the ball handler, and wasting your time by not wanting to die. I just won that battle, by taking you out of the fight completely. The only time I feel I've lost as a sniper is when I fail to help my team complete an objective, and mainly that happens when we either do not have enough ball carriers doing their job, or I fail to kill a ball carrier on the opposing team. If I'm dragging 2 people away from the main objective, I'm doing a good job. If I force you to LoS me (and everyone else), I effectively killed you for the time being. If I can take out a ball handler in the middle of a pack of opponents, I REAALLY did my job well. Who the **** cares if a sniper gets 1v1'd in certain situations? We have different roles to play, wheras sorcs can only kill snipers and run the huttball. We instead have a wide range of roles to play, mostly involving dealing massive damage to very specific targets, or taking someone else out of a 2v2 or larger battle. I'm telling you, anyone who says snipers are bad are playing them poorly, or not seeing them being played well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Delekii Posted February 14, 2012 Share Posted February 14, 2012 By "open up" you mean hit them with 2 or 3 attacks that take off 1/4 of their hp before they're right back on top of you, beating your *** since legshot breaks after the first hit and you don't have any snares... Right? To be honest, even if they are on you they don't hit that hard upfront - the vast majority are rage specced, which means that they aren't going to do significant damage till they 4stack shockwave and charge/obliterate. Since they won't be charging me, I know that I have plenty of time until they obliterate or the shockwave buff is building. Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying that snipers are strong against juggernaughts or mauraders, they are certainly the most difficult class to kill. But it isn't as one sided as most people think, the limitation of charge and the long duration cc immunity mean that they can't build smash momentum as fluidly as on other classes, and can't maintain uptime as much as they'd like thanks two two knockbacks and -45% accuracy for 6 seconds. It's not a fun matchup, but it's not unwinnable and certainly not unescapable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mBass Posted February 14, 2012 Share Posted February 14, 2012 wheras sorcs can only kill snipers and run the huttball. Have you actually played this game? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ALEXANDRU- Posted February 14, 2012 Share Posted February 14, 2012 Full champ sniper,valor 51,and i kinda feel that im a bit underpowered class and i tried all specs.Sure i can pull 400k damage + if i want to see high damage. As a Marksmanship,the high numbers are on first time when you playing it but once i've played vs a almost a full Republic team with Commando/Vanguard Juggernauts and Assasins,man that was painfull.Deflect,crap damage all the way,only a dude was undergeared and i could do some damage to him the rest was pretty low.Not to mention that i getting down realy fast. As a Lethality it is ok ,the damage it's nice but you will find often with low energy and doing rifle shots or running away so you can go OOC and regen. The spec i use right now http://www.torhead.com/skill-calc#400bZbI0rRoZGbbkrMhd.1 and it's more like a kamikaze(if i die,i'm taking you with me) spec as i put Interrogation Probe,Corosive Dart,Corrosive Grenade and go cover for explosive probe and Cull.Doing these he dies in the cull or you can use already the Takedown,if not continue with Series of Shots and again Cull.Why i choose this spec?Because i am very often targeted,idk what's with the hate,i'm Operatives 1st target etc,probally because they know i die fast. As a Marksmanship if the other player know your defensive skills you cant win.Entrench,lemme LoS him till Entrench dissapears, and other crap,not to mention if you go out of cover bye Entrench. I don't say that Sniper is crap but it feels a bit underpowered we could use a fix or two. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daeromas Posted February 14, 2012 Share Posted February 14, 2012 I wreck people on mine, and have alot of fun doing it. Not to mention I die in wz's rarely cause i'm not focused most of the time, and when someone finally does see me and starts moving at me or shooting at me i'm burning them down and have all my cc ready for them if they do get to me. pew pew pew Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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