MMO Vets, What do you think?

[SnoggyMack]

i'll give you the analogy i've given everyone else.

 

Analogies on the internet are bad. Extremely terrible way of discussing a topic. All they lead to is tangents.

[Depredator]

i'll give you the analogy i've given everyone else.

 

 

I already have a ferarri that i can pay 15 bucks a month to drive. 2 of them, really.

 

i'm expected to pay 15 bucks a month to drive this ford pinto in the hopes that they will someday turn it into a ferrari?

 

granted. i'm really tired of driving the ferarris. but i'm not about to downgrade to a ford pinto.

 

 

BW, fix your game. i'll be back in 6 months to check your progress.

 

 

Well, I'm enjoying this game. I understand that you are not.

Edited April 18, 2012 by Depredator
removed an unintentionally rude comment

[Bazouk]

Afraid you need to take your analogy elsewhere. My post was in response to the OP who was seeking some input from other mmo vets.

 

No offense to you at all, but I really don't care if you don't like this game.

 

 

you lost your credibility the second you typed "i like the crafting system"

 

no mmo vet likes this crafting system. it's for rainbow people.

[Kalfear]

Well as a vet (around before WOW) of MMOs, im really mixed feelings on TOR.

 

(im going really generic here to avoid the long write up)

 

Plus :

 

- Story is amazing

- Voice Acting is outstanding

- Crew Skills are a nice new design for crafting

- Flashpoints and new idea of old dungeons

- Companion system is spectacular

- huge universe

 

Negative:

 

- Story is to short for each character on each world and should be 2x the lenght at least

- Limited voice options per character (I know its costly but Id still like to see players have at least 3 voice choices to choose from as its their story they listen to for the game)

- Crew Skills advance to fast, really any thing that has advancement advances to fast and needs to be slowed down

- Companion system tactics is flawed and Id much rather see DA:O companion tactics system in place. Complete with unlockable tactic slot quests of their own for each companion.

- the universe is dead.

 

Nutshell, TOR hits its mark on so many fronts I do beleive Bioware has set the standard in many ways for future MMORPGs.

 

But having said that, this game isnt really a MMORPG, not in thr truest sence. Its a multiplayer game. Not a massively multiplayer, not a RPG.

 

As any VET knows, massive isnt really about how many players you have, the massive is about the community and interaction and socialization of those players.

 

TOR is dead on that front, there is no socialization outside of guilds on their vent servers.

 

If thats the way it runs, may as well have it set up like Diable where you log into a launch community, get with your guild, and launch a game with 4-8 of them and not put up with all the chest camping and ninja tagging and what not of others...

 

because there is no game community!

 

And Im not even going to start in about Role Play, I got yelled at and called down for trying to role play on a role play server and after awhile found myself unable to even try (despite being in a RP guild) because the anti role play enviroment was so appearent (and allowed by Bioware to continue). Moved to a PVE server in part so I had no role play expectations anymore (and none are met on the PVE server, thats for sure).

 

As I said, TOR is amazing in many ways but its missed the mark on the MMO front and the RPG front.

 

Contrary to the WOW kids and later, 1 million subs isnt really what massive is refer to and just because you have a story doesnt make it RP

 

TOR is a top of line, amazing multiplayer online game.

 

As a MMORPG, I dont really see it lasting much longer then 2 years as a subscription based game. Would say less if not for the Star Wars title backing it!

 

This game would be a home run of epic porportions if marketted as a diablo type game where you log into a launch community, gather your buddies, and start a game. Or if you could load up and play with 2 active companions with yourself.

 

I dont think this new post EA take over Bioware really understood the MMORPG part of the equation as they flat out missed putting in the required longeviety factor, the required acheivement and accomplishment factor, and the community factor.

 

They just made a amazing multiplayer game and marketted it as a Massively Multiplayer Online Role Play Game and let pre EA take over Bioware rep carry them through the process.

 

This game could have been and should have been the new standard in MMORPGs and had a predictable life span of no less then 8 years (I personally say they could have held 3-5 million for 10 years if they did it right). If just comes up short though on all the traditional MMORPG features that make for long term success! Like all WOW and after games have.

[Gilbara]

I thought Flashpoint Esseles was brilliant. I was excited about doing the next FP's. Then After doing the next four FP's I realised it was like a bait and switch. They put everything into Esseles for marketing and to pull you in, and nothing into the others.

 

Do Esseles and follow through it with the amazing storyline, then run Hammer Station or Mandalorian Raiders to see the difference. No more cool story and cutscenes. Just run through and kill mobs and periodically hear some guys voice on a loud speaker saying you will die.

 

Quite the let down.

Edited February 12, 2012 by Gilbara

[Depredator]

you lost your credibility the second you typed "i like the crafting system"

 

no mmo vet likes this crafting system. it's for rainbow people.

 

Establishing credibility with some random internet person is not high on my list of priorities.

 

After years of spending a great deal of time grinding for mats, wandering zones for spawn points, or spending a lot of in-game currency purchasing what I need to level a profession, I must say that I'm very, very relieved to have BW's version of crafting.

 

Unfortunately, you are unable to speak for any other "mmo vets".

[einsoff]

TOR is regressive to the genre in terms of the gameplay, and the VO gets old fast.

[Kalfear]

As an MMO vet, a long time vet, im talking NWNO back in 1991 as well as played Meridian 59 and the Realm kind of vet.

 

I dont compare this game to MMORPGs because it IS NOT AN MMORPG. This is a single player game with online capability. It does not matter if you HAVE to be online to play it, you have to be online to play the new settlers game, that doesnt make it an MMO...it does not matter if there are a lot of people playing it, quake had a million people playing it online, it wasnt an MMO.

 

To call it an MMORPG is a slap in the face to MMORPGs. Its pretending to be one. Its a good game, great story, decent gameplay...it is not an MMORPG. ive seen as many people together in one spot in online shooters as I do in this game and I sure as hell do not call them MMORPGs.

 

This game is trying to change the meaning of what an MMORPG is, it fails to do that in my book...it DOES change what a single player RPG is, by bringing it closer to what MMORPGs are.

 

No, I dont care if you disagree, this is my opinion. Take off the blinders and deal with it, I said it was a good game while stating it isnt an MMO....omg the world is going to end.

 

Ahhhh someone else gets what im saying

no surprise a fellow oNWNer on AOL who has come up through the years and seen all the products and how they preform

 

Well said Greg

[DragonAgeOrgins]

MMO-Vets?

 

I had to hold in from laughing. I played everquest before Fail Craft ever came into play. I remember having to find my body after I died, and If I didn't I lost all the gear. Then Warcraft that horrible grind. The only reason anyone liked it because compared to everquest, the graphics were superior.

 

Fail Craft got a good head start building up content for their game, fixing bug's. But they also have been digging their own grave. Their is only so much a game can allow for expansions/patches/etc before it takes up too much space. Then their world will collapse all around them.

 

Look at their recent number's, they lost 100k last quarter. Nearly 2 million gone in a single year. That's amazing. However I love the companion's in this game, where else do you have ranged. Healer, etc.

 

I love the story lines with this game. I know some bug's need to get ironed out but I give it five stars. However to suggest a Vet is better qualified to answer the question, doesn't seperate from the bloggers and millions of other peoples "personal review" as if it mattered.

[lrage]

I think SWTOR made a fun game I've played a lot and will play for only a little bit more.

But they failed to create a "world" which to me is step 1 of an MMO.

 

I still maintain that if they'd had done just 1 planet and made it less on rails and had done an appearance tab instead of orange loot (which totally ruined the new loot feel since my oranges are always better then the gear I get and I just keep upgrading them), then this game would have been a legit monster with years of staying power.

 

Instead it's loot system doesn't give me the highs of "OMGZ I got the Sword of Omens!!!", the game is so linear it isn't funny, and you basically never see anyone doing anything different then you or inspiring you to want to hit the higher levels or get the better loot.

[Mephismo]

Ahhhh someone else gets what im saying

no surprise a fellow oNWNer on AOL who has come up through the years and seen all the products and how they preform

 

Well said Greg

 

Sharing an opinion doesn’t make it right

[Forsbacka]

We can thank WoW for that. No, really...

 

That doesnt explain why they made endgame Pve and PvP content a joke compared to WoW in terms of difficulty.

[Depredator]

 

Nutshell, TOR hits its mark on so many fronts I do beleive Bioware has set the standard in many ways for future MMORPGs.

 

But having said that, this game isnt really a MMORPG, not in thr truest sence. Its a multiplayer game. Not a massively multiplayer, not a RPG.

 

As any VET knows, massive isnt really about how many players you have, the massive is about the community and interaction and socialization of those players.

 

...

 

And Im not even going to start in about Role Play, I got yelled at and called down for trying to role play on a role play server and after awhile found myself unable to even try (despite being in a RP guild) because the anti role play enviroment was so appearent (and allowed by Bioware to continue). Moved to a PVE server in part so I had no role play expectations anymore (and none are met on the PVE server, thats for sure).

 

As I said, TOR is amazing in many ways but its missed the mark on the MMO front and the RPG front.

 

Contrary to the WOW kids and later, 1 million subs isnt really what massive is refer to and just because you have a story doesnt make it RP

 

TOR is a top of line, amazing multiplayer online game.

 

As a MMORPG, I dont really see it lasting much longer then 2 years as a subscription based game. Would say less if not for the Star Wars title backing it!

 

...

 

They just made a amazing multiplayer game and marketted it as a Massively Multiplayer Online Role Play Game and let pre EA take over Bioware rep carry them through the process.

 

This game could have been and should have been the new standard in MMORPGs and had a predictable life span of no less then 8 years (I personally say they could have held 3-5 million for 10 years if they did it right). If just comes up short though on all the traditional MMORPG features that make for long term success! Like all WOW and after games have.

I have to agree that BW has set a new standard for mmo's, at least with regard to storylines. The way they've crafted their class stories is most certainly a powerful hook. My concern is that they may have bitten off more than they can chew. Once you hit max level, is there really a way to continue with the excellent story telling? If they find a way to answer that question in a positive manner, then perhaps all will be well. If they don't, then I think that the sudden jarring change from a story driven game to an all to familiar end-game gear grind will be a bit much for many folks.

 

Ultimately, I think they have a chance to create a long lasting title, so I must disagree with your opinion about the potential longevity of this game. Sure, if BW leaves the game "as is" and expands it in a fashion similar to its current state then they will have a problem in a couple of years; however, I think that things can be done in a specific way in order to increase the power of this game's hook.

 

I believe that there is a possibility that this game will grow into a magnificent mmo. It's not terrible right now, but it has to grow into something more than what it is in order to have some real staying power.

Edited February 12, 2012 by Depredator

[CriticalMasses]

I think this could have been a kickass single-player game, it would have blown Skyrim out of the water if they focused on making it Kotor 3 instead of Space WoW. Still pretty good, but not on par with Mass Effect. I played EVE online before I came here, so I actually don't mind going out to make my own content when I hit 50, but I recognize that once you "finish" your story right now, there's more incentive to go back and start another one than continuing on with "end game" content.

 

Basically, they've got about 8 months to make 50 worth playing than rolling alts imo, because that's how long it will take most of their playerbase to max out all 8 classes and see both faction's storylines.

 

I'd say less than 1% of the population will be doing all 8 classes in the next 8 months.

 

After you leave the home planet most of the quests are the same. It gets really old, really fast, and becomes a complete grind.

[Alundo]

The sparkles have faded and I'm passed the 'new and exciting' part of this game. Starting to think it wasn't as great as I'd hoped/waited for.

[RXXL]

I went back to playing COH as I enjoy the gameplay a lot more than I do in TOR. Im gonna give this game another go though. There might be something to the fact that COH was my first mmo ever and thus it holds a special place in my heart. Ive tried many others but I always end up going back to coh (I must be one of the few who cant stand the fantasy genre of elves and dwarves and the like).

 

Anyone think that its a difficult (possibly impossible) task to unseat those mmo's that hold a special place in our hearts? I was hoping TOR would, but...

[gregordunbar]

For the most part this is correct, however this game did not do anything to bring single player games closer to MMORPG'S it didn't evolve single player games, in a sense it made them worse, all those voiced side quests are a disgrace, and the main storylines are nothing special, they are good but that's where it ends. Keep single player and MMORPG separate please.

 

Ahh, but I didnt say "evolve" I said they tried to bring a single player game closer to an MMO. Never actually said they did it in a good way.

 

The more I look at some aspects of the game, like the legacy system, the more I think the person in charge of game design not only knows little about MMORPGs, but also single player RPGs.

 

1 surname tied to all characters, no matter the race basically breaking every RPG rule about characters being UNIQUE to the player. (if you think having characters on another server is an OK way around this that proves you have blinders on, something requiring a work around proves its a bad idea)

 

Upcoming family tree allowing you to tie characters to the same family to unlock leet skills!

Meaning, all races can be in the same family which is so derp its not even funny BUT they limit it to only the same race meaning if you want those leet skills you will be FORCED to have your alts the same race!

Edited February 18, 2012 by Paralassa
insults/content

[Depredator]

I went back to playing COH as I enjoy the gameplay a lot more than I do in TOR. Im gonna give this game another go though. There might be something to the fact that COH was my first mmo ever and thus it holds a special place in my heart. Ive tried many others but I always end up going back to coh (I must be one of the few who cant stand the fantasy genre of elves and dwarves and the like).

 

Anyone think that its a difficult (possibly impossible) task to unseat those mmo's that hold a special place in our hearts? I was hoping TOR would, but...

 

Nah, I understand that. I left EQ for WoW. I made multiple attempts to leave WoW for various other titles (inlcuding CoH!), but I always ended up going back home in the end.

 

That special link you have with your "home" game is hard to break, imo. I think that only the game developers can possibly drive players away from a game they're attached to (i.e. CU, NGE, etc.)

Edited February 12, 2012 by Depredator

[CriticalMasses]

The sparkles have faded and I'm passed the 'new and exciting' part of this game. Starting to think it wasn't as great as I'd hoped/waited for.

 

And I remember how stoked you were pre-launch too. But yeah. I agree.

[Serbegorn]

Console gamers have polluted the PC MMO Genre and all but obliterated it. It means mega-bucks for the game companies but what we MMO vets get is this watered down version of what we originally signed on for.

 

I posted a big long rant on the Rift forums about it.

http://forums.riftgame.com/rift-general-discussions/off-topic/255841-why-mmos-today-pale-comparison-what-they-once-were.html

 

The gist of the message is console gamers need to diaf.

[JonesyMan]

I think the best way to sum this arguement is to say that most players want their cake and be able to it too. Its funny how we all have our opinions about what would make a good game but lack the ability to do anything about it. If you enjoy TOR then play it. If you don't, then leave it. What is so hard about that? Sorry if common sense is getting the way.

[Depredator]

Console gamers have polluted the PC MMO Genre and all but obliterated it. It means mega-bucks for the game companies but what we MMO vets get is this watered down version of what we originally signed on for.

 

I posted a big long rant on the Rift forums about it.

http://forums.riftgame.com/rift-general-discussions/off-topic/255841-why-mmos-today-pale-comparison-what-they-once-were.html

 

The gist of the message is console gamers need to diaf.

 

Ha! That was amusing.

 

I have to wonder if you're hitting pretty close to the mark... Could be, could be.

 

Edit: "Dude! Where's my corpse?!"

Edited February 12, 2012 by Depredator

[Xaeberain]

I reserved the right to say I told you so months ago and now I shall excersize said right to all the fanboys who are now haters. A few who have posted in this very thread. Yeah, I remember you...so without further adieu....

 

 

i told ya so.

Edited February 12, 2012 by Xaeberain

[TonyACT]

My biggest knock is the game is too easy and forgiving. Gear is gained too easily. Content is cleared too easily. This leads to the complaints you see from some about having nothing to do at 50. I also think that a MMO based on people having to roll alts is not a great long term strat for a sub based MMO.

 

That said, I understand that BW is positioning the game to be just that. The easiest, most accessible MMO on the market. Some 'MMO vets' may not take to that well and may not stick with this game.

 

Pretty much where I am - subbed for one month to level an alt - then cancelled. Not sure where the long-term proposition is for EA / Bioware. Back in EQ2 part time now, will be back there full-time when my last few weeks are up. Don't get me wrong, enjoyed the game and got my money's worth.

[gregordunbar]

Console gamers have polluted the PC MMO Genre and all but obliterated it.

 

The gist of the message is console gamers need to diaf.

 

That is pure 100% BS.

 

The very idea that Everquest was hard and everything that followed was easy due to Console gamers holds no water and your rant was just that, a foaming at the mouth rant with zero actual talking points other than OMG EQ was great.

 

Well guess what, a game called Asherons Call came out within a few months of EQ1 and in that game I could take on 30 giant apes at the same time and go right from those 30 apes to another 30 apes and laugh about it.

 

And guess what? I DONT LIKE MOST NEW MMOS EITHER...I dont blame on some subset of players that dont even make up a decent percentage of MMORPGers either...I blame those who are the cause. DEVELOPERS that still listen to people like Raph Koster and his goofy ideas he had when people actually WANTED him to work on their games, a man who hasnt found a job in 6 years yet they still quote that FOOL as if he had a clue even though he DESTROYED every game he touched and came up with a ton of BAD ideas!